Palestine flag to be raised over UN

[Steely Dan]

So they may as well raise the flag of Cloud Cuckoo Land at the UN ... it won't change the situation on the ground one bit.

In your Zionist dreams it won't, but in reality it will. The state of Palestine is in the offing, and when it comes about, things on the ground will have to change.

Sorry Israel. You need to get with the times. No choices left. Your river to the sea aspirations will NEVER come about.

It's time to face reality.

River to the sea - Projection alert!

[ABCer]

I propose:

That the "Palestinian" flag be raised OVER AND ABOVE Israeli flag!

It is time to make a statement:

- from compensation point - the lower the ground - the higher the flag;

- the smaller the state - the bigger the flag;

- the newer the state - the brighter the flag;

- from political point - that Israeli representative at UN is obligated to salute the new "Palestinian" flag;

- that Israeli representative at UN is obligated to shed a tear whilst saluting the new "Palestinian" flag;

- that Israeli representative at UN is obligated to wet his shoes before "Palestinian" flag in symbolic drowning.

[Jingthing]

River to the sea - Projection alert!

Exactly.

If the "Palestinian" people and leadership had shown a sincere willingness in living side by side in peace with the established Jewish majority state of Israel, there could have a two state solution decades ago.

But they are clearly not really interested in that. They want to end Israel. Israel says no and will continue to say no.

Now many smart people of different political persuasions think a real two state solution has now become impossible. I am not smart or psychic enough to know if that's true, but I can see it's obvious that it isn't really going to happen anytime soon. The political for that is lacking now on both sides ... to unlike the obsessive Israel demonizers, I am not putting all the blame only on ONE side.

Putting up a flag doesn't mean the nation of Palestine really exists. I can see it's aspiration but their clearly state true aspiration is to end Israel and for that flag to be the flag of the entire Israel/West Bank/Gaza region with many millions of Jewish people there GONE.

Edited September 19, 2015 by Jingthing

[Seastallion]

River to the sea - Projection alert!

Exactly.

If the "Palestinian" people and leadership had shown a sincere willingness in living side by side in peace with the established Jewish majority state of Israel, there could have a two state solution decades ago.

But they are clearly not really interested in that. They want to end Israel. Israel says no and will continue to say no.

Now many smart people of different political persuasions think a real two state solution has now become impossible. I am not smart or psychic enough to know if that's true, but I can see it's obvious that it isn't really going to happen anytime soon. The political for that is lacking now on both sides ... to unlike the obsessive Israel demonizers, I am not putting all the blame only on ONE side.

Putting up a flag doesn't mean the nation of Palestine really exists. I can see it's aspiration but their clearly state true aspiration is to end Israel and for that flag to be the flag of the entire Israel/West Bank/Gaza region with many millions of Jewish people there GONE.

Rubbish and hogwash. And it's obvious that you read the posts of people you "ignore", so stop with the feigned ignorance of their valid points and enter discourse with them.

You keep repeating your mantra, and it is false.

As you have said...you're not smart enough. So why offer an opinion based on lack of smarts and lack of (purportedly) reading "ignored" information.

Think about it JT, you are in a ludicrous position when you "ignore" (in inverted commas because it's a lie that you ignore) information but persist in repeating your mantra as if you are oblivious to the information.

[up-country_sinclair]

Now many smart people of different political persuasions think a real two state solution has now become impossible. I am not smart or psychic enough to know if that's true, but I can see it's obvious that it isn't really going to happen anytime soon.

That is one of the primary reasons that there needs to be UN troops on the ground in the occupied territories. The sooner the better.

[Seastallion]

Now many smart people of different political persuasions think a real two state solution has now become impossible. I am not smart or psychic enough to know if that's true, but I can see it's obvious that it isn't really going to happen anytime soon.

That is one of the primary reasons that there needs to be UN troops on the ground in the occupied territories. The sooner the better.

Sorry. Mr Sinclair....you've stuffed up the quotes. An easy thing to do, and no problem...but I wouldn't want anyone to think I said that, haha.

You're quoting JT there.

I agree with your response!

Edited September 19, 2015 by Seastallion

[up-country_sinclair]

Apologies.

I just tried to edit the post, but I can't for some reason.

[thaibeachlovers]

Israel demonizers / anti Zionists / Judeophobes would be happier if the Jews had no nation state and were still very weak and could be easy victims of pogroms etc. again. Tough luck. The obsessed Israel demonizers don't like Jews when they are weak or strong. Strong is better.

You really can't get away from the Jewish connection to the land of Israel. Jews are a tiny tiny people relative to global population. A people that has been persecuted for thousands of years in the Diaspora. Establishing the modern nation state of Israel made sense as a survival tactic for the Jewish people.

The diaspora of the Jewish people was from where? Boca Raton? No. Israel.

Also the line that Jewish is only a religion is totally wrong. Jews are also a people in the sense of an ethnoreligious group. Following the religion is not required to be a Jew.

"Palestinian" Arabs can resist the existence of Israel all they like. Israel isn't going anywhere.

Israel isn't going anywhere.

And the Israeli Arabs aren't going away either. They'll still be there in 300 or 3000 years, and they'll outnumber the Jews massively- so what you gonna do? Do you have a plan?

It's quite ironic that some who are against mass Muslim immigration to Europe for reasons of demographics seem to relish the same happening to Israel. The demographic question only applies due to the premeditated deliberate decision not to settle Palestinian refugees in order to preserve their so called 'right of return', hence the UN has set up an agency unique to Palestinian refugees and another for all the rest of the refugees on earth. Well the right of return is an equal fiction to the borderless pseudo state of Palestine.

The Israeli Arabs are NOT immigrants. It is their country that they were born in. The illegal immigrants were the Jews that arrived after the war when the British tried to stop them, but were driven out by Zionist terrorists.

[Jingthing]

Any Jew in the world has a right to live in Israel. That's called the right of the return and like any nation, Israel has full rights to have any immigration policy that it decides. So, no, Jews in Israel aren't "illegal" unless they have failed to go through the formal process of becoming legal with the Israeli government. It's so clear that so often Israel demonizers have a bug up their arse about Jews. It's such a good thing that Israel exists. Better Jews having a STRONG nation state than being in the weak position they were for thousands of years. No I am not saying that all Jews in the world need to or should become Israelis. Of course not. But the vast majority of Jews in the world appreciate and support the existence of the homeland of the Jewish people, which is a CHOICE for Jews that decide to migrate there for either positive (a better life) or negative reasons (being hounded out by Jew haters as in France now).

To add, for those obsessive Israel demonizers who have a problem with Israel immigration law, you can attempt to become an Israeli citizen which is open but harder for non-Jews, and then when you're an Israeli citizen, then you can work as Israeli citizen to change the immigration laws of Israel.

Edited September 19, 2015 by Jingthing

[thaibeachlovers]

So they may as well raise the flag of Cloud Cuckoo Land at the UN ... it won't change the situation on the ground one bit.

Let's wait and see how it's going in one hundred years. It took 600 years for the Irish to evict the English from their land, are you sure Israel can last as long?

[Jingthing]

So they may as well raise the flag of Cloud Cuckoo Land at the UN ... it won't change the situation on the ground one bit.

Let's wait and see how it's going in one hundred years. It took 600 years for the Irish to evict the English from their land, are you sure Israel can last as long?

Like we can know.

Silly baiting question.

Of course I totally reject your premise. Israel is the land of the Jews. No equivalence to Ireland and England.

Edited September 19, 2015 by Jingthing

[thaibeachlovers]

So they may as well raise the flag of Cloud Cuckoo Land at the UN ... it won't change the situation on the ground one bit.

Let's wait and see how it's going in one hundred years. It took 600 years for the Irish to evict the English from their land, are you sure Israel can last as long?

Like we can know.

Silly baiting question.

Of course I totally reject your premise. Israel is the land of the Jews. No equivalence to Ireland and England.

Rubbish. In the threads about the woman in the States that refuses to certify homosexual marriage based on her belief in the Bible you say she is a bigot etc for acting on her religious convictions. There is NOTHING to say that Israel is the home of the Jews except the Biblical stuff- God promised the land to the Jews etc. The Jews left 2,000 years ago and the Arab majority were living there in the early 20th century, ergo it was an ARAB land. Based on your argument, the English should evict all those with Angle blood in Britain as they were invaders.

[Jingthing]

The origin of Zionism is mostly secular. Jews are not only a religion but also a PEOPLE, as in an ETHNICITY. It was about a national liberation movement of POLITICAL self determination for the Jewish people. To suggest that Zionism is all about Jewish religious fundamentalism is TOTALLY FALSE.

Did it succeed? Well, mixed results like any human endeavor.

If you want to talk about England and Ireland, please don't bother to address me about that on a thread about the "Palestinian" / Israel conflict because I'll never accept there is any kind of equivalence between them.

Keep in mind that Jews living in British mandate Palestine were known as Palestinians.

So it's a fluid term.

Edited September 19, 2015 by Jingthing

[thaibeachlovers]

The origin of Zionism is mostly secular. Jews are not only a religion but also a PEOPLE, as in an ETHNICITY. It was about a national liberation movement of POLITICAL self determination for the Jewish people. To suggest that Zionism is all about Jewish religious fundamentalism is TOTALLY FALSE.

Did it succeed? Well, mixed results like any human endeavor.

If you want to talk about England and Ireland, please don't bother to address me about that on a thread about the "Palestinian" / Israel conflict because I'll never accept there is any kind of equivalence between them.

Keep in mind that Jews living in British mandate Palestine were known as Palestinians.

So it's a fluid term.

Deflect all you like, things will undoubtedly change once the Israeli Arabs outnumber the Israeli Jews. Then some might regret that they were so cruel to their neighbours.

[Seastallion]

The origin of Zionism is mostly secular. Jews are not only a religion but also a PEOPLE, as in an ETHNICITY. It was about a national liberation movement of POLITICAL self determination for the Jewish people. To suggest that Zionism is all about Jewish religious fundamentalism is TOTALLY FALSE.

Did it succeed? Well, mixed results like any human endeavor.

If you want to talk about England and Ireland, please don't bother to address me about that on a thread about the "Palestinian" / Israel conflict because I'll never accept there is any kind of equivalence between them.

Keep in mind that Jews living in British mandate Palestine were known as Palestinians.

So it's a fluid term.

Jews (at least some of the Israeli Jews, but maybe not the European immigrants) are ethnically the same as Palestinian Arabs.

Put that in your "right to their homeland" pipe.

[Seastallion]

Any Jew in the world has a right to live in Israel. That's called the right of the return and like any nation, Israel has full rights to have any immigration policy that it decides. So, no, Jews in Israel aren't "illegal" unless they have failed to go through the formal process of becoming legal with the Israeli government. It's so clear that so often Israel demonizers have a bug up their arse about Jews. It's such a good thing that Israel exists. Better Jews having a STRONG nation state than being in the weak position they were for thousands of years. No I am not saying that all Jews in the world need to or should become Israelis. Of course not. But the vast majority of Jews in the world appreciate and support the existence of the homeland of the Jewish people, which is a CHOICE for Jews that decide to migrate there for either positive (a better life) or negative reasons (being hounded out by Jew haters as in France now).

To add, for those obsessive Israel demonizers who have a problem with Israel immigration law, you can attempt to become an Israeli citizen which is open but harder for non-Jews, and then when you're an Israeli citizen, then you can work as Israeli citizen to change the immigration laws of Israel.

You are muddying the waters by talking about contemporary Israeli immigration laws.

Tell us...what were the "immigration laws" of the area in 1946?

[7by7]

Any Jew in the world has a right to live in Israel. That's called the right of the return and like any nation, Israel has full rights to have any immigration policy that it decides..............you can attempt to become an Israeli citizen which is open but harder for non-Jews, and then when you're an Israeli citizen, then you can work as Israeli citizen to change the immigration laws of Israel.

Any other country with similar laws which discriminate in any way based upon a person's religion (or race or ethnicity or gender etc.) is rightly condemned by the civilised world; why not Israel?

Also, your tired accusations of anti Semitism and demonisation of Jews you constantly make towards those who criticise the Israeli government and it's policies simply merely show that you and those of your mind set on this issue know in your hearts that there is no real justification for those policies.

Many Jews are critical of those policies; are they in your mind anti Semites as well?

How about these guys; anti Semitic Jew demonisers?

Members of the Neturei Karta Orthodox Jewish group protest against the Israeli occupation of Palestine.

Edited September 19, 2015 by 7by7

[Jingthing]

The origin of Zionism is mostly secular. Jews are not only a religion but also a PEOPLE, as in an ETHNICITY. It was about a national liberation movement of POLITICAL self determination for the Jewish people. To suggest that Zionism is all about Jewish religious fundamentalism is TOTALLY FALSE.

Did it succeed? Well, mixed results like any human endeavor.

If you want to talk about England and Ireland, please don't bother to address me about that on a thread about the "Palestinian" / Israel conflict because I'll never accept there is any kind of equivalence between them.

Keep in mind that Jews living in British mandate Palestine were known as Palestinians.

So it's a fluid term.

Deflect all you like, things will undoubtedly change once the Israeli Arabs outnumber the Israeli Jews. Then some might regret that they were so cruel to their neighbours.

You know, I'm not really fooled by any of this noise. The tone of the Israel demonization society comes off as if they can't wait until the Jews are slaughtered by the Arabs and Muslims. Yes, message received LOUD AND CLEAR, that's what a lot of the world, and not only Arabs and Muslims WANTS to happen. They also want to make this fantasy much easier to happen by trying to shame Israel into VOLUNTARILY softening. Israel has no choice ... stay strong, get stronger, or indeed fulfill the disgusting genocidal fantasies of their many enemies. Jews paranoid? No, because the threats are REAL.

I'm a liberal when it is realistic. For Israel, if they go too liberal, they basically commit suicide. They aren't that stupid ... so nice try.

Edited September 19, 2015 by Jingthing

[up-country_sinclair]

things will undoubtedly change once the Israeli Arabs outnumber the Israeli Jews. Then some might regret that they were so cruel to their neighbours.

And that day of justice is coming. It probably won't be in my lifetime, but it's coming. And payback is a b*tch.

[dexterm]

Any Jew in the world has a right to live in Israel. That's called the right of the return and like any nation, Israel has full rights to have any immigration policy that it decides. So, no, Jews in Israel aren't "illegal" unless they have failed to go through the formal process of becoming legal with the Israeli government. It's so clear that so often Israel demonizers have a bug up their arse about Jews. It's such a good thing that Israel exists. Better Jews having a STRONG nation state than being in the weak position they were for thousands of years. No I am not saying that all Jews in the world need to or should become Israelis. Of course not. But the vast majority of Jews in the world appreciate and support the existence of the homeland of the Jewish people, which is a CHOICE for Jews that decide to migrate there for either positive (a better life) or negative reasons (being hounded out by Jew haters as in France now).

To add, for those obsessive Israel demonizers who have a problem with Israel immigration law, you can attempt to become an Israeli citizen which is open but harder for non-Jews, and then when you're an Israeli citizen, then you can work as Israeli citizen to change the immigration laws of Israel.

How can a person born and bred in New York have the right of return? to a place he has never set eyes on before, while a Palestinian ethnically cleansed by Zionists in 48 and 67 and still holding the keys to his home does not have the right of return to his property? That's the racism and injustice I object to.

Judaism is a religion, not a race. Any ethnicity has been diluted by centuries of intermarriage and conversion. Palestinians have more Hebrew blood in their little fingers than most Jews have in their entire bodies.

Palestinians are the indigenous people, who have had their land stolen by hordes of illegal invading Zionists.

Edited September 19, 2015 by dexterm

[7by7]

More people who, if Jingthing is to be believed, must be anti Semitic Jew demonisers:

Jews for Justice for Palestinians

WE BELIEVE THAT

• Lasting peace between Israel and the Palestinians requires justice, mutual recognition and respect.
• Peace requires ending Israels illegal occupation and settlement of Palestinian land, including its illegal blockade of Gaza.
• Peace requires Israel to acknowledge its responsibility in the creation of the Palestinian refugees, and its obligation to negotiate a just, fair and practical resolution of the issue.
• Violence against civilians, no matter who commits it, is unacceptable.
• Israels repressive policies in the West Bank and Gaza are breeding hatred and resentment.
• Israels discrimination against its Palestinian citizens is unacceptable.
• It is crucial that Jews speak out for Palestinians human rights.
• The humanitarian values of Judaism have been corrupted by the Israeli states abuses of human rights.
• Britain, the EU, the USA, Russia and the UN must be persuaded to implement UN resolutions on Palestine.

IF YOU AGREE then join nearly two thousand other Jews in Britain who make up JEWS FOR JUSTICE FOR PALESTINIANS

Edited September 19, 2015 by 7by7

[Jingthing]

Anyway, I hope everyone enjoys the flag of the nation that doesn't exist.

Too bad the Palestinian Arabs rejected peace from the get go immediately after the creation of the state of Israel, they and multiple Muslim nations attacked Israel. But, tough luck, even though they were heavily favored, they lost ...

Losing has consequences.

If the Palestinian Arabs had accepted the original plan peacefully, the history could have been a lot different.

But with their aggression, they showed Israel from the very start that the original borders were never going to be adequate for security against these hostile forces who would never accept the existence of Israel.

Israeli demonizers are generally the same. They never accepted the existence of Israel in the first place with ANY BORDERS, and their goals, whether openly stated or not, are to end Israel.

Edited September 19, 2015 by Jingthing

[Steely Dan]

Now many smart people of different political persuasions think a real two state solution has now become impossible. I am not smart or psychic enough to know if that's true, but I can see it's obvious that it isn't really going to happen anytime soon.

That is one of the primary reasons that there needs to be UN troops on the ground in the occupied territories. The sooner the better.

In your wettest of wet dreams. There are Western activists on the ground in Palestine, displaying the same antisemitism, delusion, naivety and ignorance, not forgetting obsession; that some of our esteemed members display.

Here is a classic example. Solidarity from nudist leftists antagonizing the very people they purport to support. But as we know only too well, the Palestinians are but a pawn cynically used by deranged Jew haters.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/260172/muslims-furious-leftist-clowns-who-got-naked-daniel-greenfield#

Arab leaders in Hevron have contacted the city’s Jewish leadership for help in getting rid of foreign anti-Israel volunteers who, they complain, are destroying their traditional way of life.

Several local Arab residents told the Kol Ha’Ir newspaper that the activists have been exposing the local youths to drug use and sexual promiscuity.

One interviewee told Kol Ha’Ir that the volunteers show a disregard for the religious norms of the local villages and teach the local youth to reject and disrespect the traditions of their forefathers.

Edited September 20, 2015 by metisdead
Edited to comply with fair use policy.

[chuckd]

We have some anti Jewish folks on this forum. Could it be possible that some of our members have been MIA lately?

Edited September 20, 2015 by chuckd

[i claudius]

,the trouble is that while Israel does everything in their power to build a better country the Palestinians like many of the Muslim country's are happy to sit on their backsides and do nothing to help themselves

[stevenl]

We have some anti Jewish folks on this forum. Could it be possible that some of our members have been MIA lately?

I know of some who are frequently critical of Israel and the israelian policies, but don't know any 'anti Jewish folks' on here.

[Jingthing]

We have some anti Jewish folks on this forum. Could it be possible that some of our members have been MIA lately?

I know of some who are frequently critical of Israel and the israelian policies, but don't know any 'anti Jewish folks' on here.

Then you're not paying attention.

[stevenl]

We have some anti Jewish folks on this forum. Could it be possible that some of our members have been MIA lately?

I know of some who are frequently critical of Israel and the israelian policies, but don't know any 'anti Jewish folks' on here.

Then you're not paying attention.

I do, I just have a more objective point of view.

[Scott]

Let's please stay on topic. There are posts which are very strongly anti-Jewish (and some who are anti-Palestinian). Those posts are generally removed from view and depending on the severity, a warning issued and a possible suspension. This is the applicable rule:

11) You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

....but again, that is not what this topic is about.

[up-country_sinclair]

Only eight countries out of 193 voted against the Palestinian flag being raised at the UN.

The tide has truly turned.