Koh Tao murders: 2 DNA profiles from alleged murder weapon do not match defendants' DNA

[B166ER]

....of course a scratch your back I'll scratch yours backdoor deal is always an ace to have up your sleeve when trying to extradite nefarious characters who believe they're beyond reproach. On either side of the pond.

I wish I could be more assertive in a positive manner to get the word out to the rest of those involved in this world of hurt. I wish I could let those in power know that I believe in my heart that these two did not do the crime and what I believe should account for something. The pain bubble created from that first swing (or WORDS) to the blisters from cold chains, is something in all our own ways we share. It's affected more than the sum of all of us. It'll keep doing so for many years to come. It'll always be a memory with the wrong type of association with it. I wish I never knew of this....I wish I never read about it....and mostly of course wish it....never happened....

[longtom]

I have friends live in koh tao. Their say burma boys no kill the farang

You are not the first and probable not the last to quote the "jungle drums" of Koh Tao...

Unfortunately without hard facts, and locals who are not prepared to tell all they know, this IMHO is heading for probably one of the greatest miscarriages of justice in the history of Thailand.

Laughable - ever heard of the blue diamond case?

And 'jungle drums' aka village gossip maybe right in a few cases, but is mostly just that - gossip.

If that gossip was to be believed then why not believe the first rumour out of Tao 1 or 2 days after the murders, which said that (no names) the male victim was bisexual and his farang friend killed because he saw them making love on the beach with his female friend?

[HUH]

Lots more revelations coming out about whats been said in court. I saw that in the earlier threads there was much debate and speculation about the B2 having their DNA tests taken in the first batch of 200 people after the murders and there was that pic of one of them in a queue waiting.

Buts its now been revealed in court that they were not subject to random testing at all before they were arrested. So the 12 hour turnaround time from arrest to DNA match is indeed correct. The lab technician who testified in court even admitted she was surprised by the speed of the results.

The defense including Dr Pornthip brought this matter up rigorously in cross examination. Also the charts that were provided as evidence for the DNA did not contain the graphs that are supposed to then overlay onto the chart to make a comparison to the peaks and troughs on the DNA identification. So completely unverifiable.

[joebrown]

Sorry, don't understand your answer and fail to see the relevance of it.

Sorry, are you replying to my post above, or merely deflecting , as usual.

Replying to your post #2465.

The silence is deafening!!

Joebrown #2465

I might be tempted to agree with you if you could explain why Mon instructed the gardener to replace the blood stained hoe to the alleged murder scene. How did Mon know that the hoe was a weapon used in the murder of Hannah. From what I recall from the gardener's evidence he had placed the hoe under some plastic bags away from the murder scene. How was Mon in a position to determine the importance of the hoe before the gardener moved it? I feel sure you can easily answer this question, as you have no doubt about the B2's exclusive involvement. in the crimes.(quote)

Explanation of #2465

You say KT is not a dangerous place etc etc.and consider it a safe place to visit. In my post I say I might consider a visit to KT if you can satisfy me it is safe. To help me make up my mind on whether it is safe or not, I ask you to explain why Mon instructed the gardener to replace the hoe etc etc. The reason I ask for your explanation is that I would never wish to visit a place (KT) where I might feel unsafe because of an apparent flaw in the trial evidence given by someone who is portrayed as a saint by a few TVF posters.

I trust this explanation will be sufficient to allay my current fears about visiting Koh Tao. I await your considered response to my # 2465.

[StealthEnergiser]

Lots more revelations coming out about whats been said in court. I saw that in the earlier threads there was much debate and speculation about the B2 having their DNA tests taken in the first batch of 200 people after the murders and there was that pic of one of them in a queue waiting.

Buts its now been revealed in court that they were not subject to random testing at all before they were arrested. So the 12 hour turnaround time from arrest to DNA match is indeed correct. The lab technician who testified in court even admitted she was surprised by the speed of the results.

The defense including Dr Pornthip brought this matter up rigorously in cross examination. Also the charts that were provided as evidence for the DNA did not contain the graphs that are supposed to then overlay onto the chart to make a comparison to the peaks and troughs on the DNA identification. So completely unverifiable.

Yes i was reading that report i thought this was interesting "And also the succession of witnesses who admitted they hadn’t signed and dated their own reports – including the Thai pathologist – and had not taken responsibility for any of their findings – and didn;t know who had signed it or when?

That had to set alarm bells ringing when these people are senior professionals.

And the under reported fact that the Thai pathologist admitted finding a blond hair in Hannah’s hand which was not hers or David’s and still had the root attached. This hair was tested but the pathologist said it was “impossible to establish the actual colour of the hair.” He was asked: “But it looked blond to you,” and he replied: “Yes, it looked blond,”

And a senior police officer in the dock lied about visits paid to the pathologist at the end of October and in November to discuss this hair sample, but was forced to admit the visits took place, in court. So you see, focussing on just the phone cannot be a reason to convict when so much came out in court that may have got seconds of air time, but actually was crucial for a conviction. But the judge sat through it all and has it all."

[catsanddogs]

Investigators Tuesday interrogated Montriwat Toovichien, a 45-year-old bartender at AC Bar on Koh Tao who identified as the man seen in closed-circuit video footage in the hours before the Sept 15 bludgeoning deaths of Britons David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23.........

Pol Lt Gen Panya said a second suspect, who fled the resort island to Bangkok, will likely be taken into custody soon........

He said both suspects were captured by CCTV cameras and the police have gathered enough evidence to implicate them in the murders.

He said the southern police were coordinating with the metropolitan police to hunt him down, and expected to apprehend him today.

The southern police chief also assured the public that there was no arrest of scapegoats in this murder case as it now is a focal attention of the world.

I notice there is photo which McAnna put up on his FB page of Mon and Big Ears cop which reads underneath -

A photo taken by a Scottish tourist of two men suspected by police of involvement in the killing of two British tourists on Koh Tao.

This is the first I have read that the COP was suspected of involvement in the murders. Did he take a DNA test? Why has nothing been seen or heard of him regarding this investigation and trial? Nothing whatsoever. I find this most suspicious.

http://www.chiangraitimes.com/koh-tao-murder-suspect-arrested-another-on-the-run.html

[Dogmatix]

It seems unfortunate that the defence had to place so much emphasis on the allegations of torture, which, although undoubtedly true, could no more be proven beyond a reasonable doubt than the defendants' commission of the rape and murders. That highlights the utterly unsound basis of this trial. The forced confessions were not only retracted but were inadmissible under Thai law, as pointed out by Ajarn Burin in his oped piece, because the defendants were not informed of their rights to remain silent and to have lawyers present.

The defence lawyers presumably knew that the prosecution would present the forced confessions as one of the two main planks of their case, along with the police's unverifiable DNA match from the tape that didn't take place.

They were also aware that the court would routinely accept forced confessions without Miranda rights, since this must be an every day occurrence in Thai courts.

In addition they were severely hampered in performing what should have been their main task of proving that the defendants could not have committed the crimes by the refusal by prosecutors and police to allow them access to the most critical evidence. That would include the DNA samples, the crime scene photographs, the victims' clothing, the CCTV footage etc etc.

This is going to sound like a weird post and I will try and explain what I mean as best as I can -

Apart from the interviews (torture as you put it) were the accused had no legal council (illegal IMO) no recordings.....nothing

Court proceedings basically come down to arguments - the prosecution present their case and the defense try to argue against it on behalf of the defendants - ok so we all know that, if you haven't been in court you have seen a fairly good representation on TV

In order for the defense council to do their job they must be presented with a factual case to argue against presented by the prosecution, lets take that thought to an extreme and work backwards, suppose the prosecution in this case stood up in court and said - the accused were on the beach that night (we all agree) and therefore they must be guilty, the only possible reply to that from defense council is confirmation - yes they were on the beach that night

So in very simplistic terms the prosecution has made their case and the defense have made theirs, they all agree so they must be guilty.

Expanding on that - prosecution say we have a DNA match connecting the accused to the victim, defense say show us the DNA we want to test and verify that evidence - oh sorry we no longer have that at which point a Judge should intervene and say - sorry that is not admissible in my court (replace DNA with GUN and you will get my meaning)

The point being and again very basic and simplistic, this case in terms of arguments left the defense council with very little to actually argue against because the prosecution didn't present anything viable, yes the defense and accused testified and covered the illegal interviews (which were illegal - fact) but in all honesty there was little else for defense council to do, it was a case of how do we fill in time here, ok we can get the accused to testify the last 2 days (which I said before was a mistake), we can get Pontip (expert) to test the Hoe for DNA ok all well and good but there was little else for them to do, how do you argue against a case when there is no real argument presented

We had the gun and it was a match but we worked so hard on it there is nothing left - it was exhausted

Oh the phone found at the crime scene did not belong to any of the victims so we never tested it

The murder weapon was missing when we arrived at the scene, what murder weapon ? the hoe, we left it right there and when we arrived back the gardener had removed it, we made him put it back

You are right. In murder trials in rule of law jurisdictions the prosecution will have show exactly how the murder was supposed to have taken place with supporting evidence snd witnesses and the defence will try to do the opposite, ie prove that the murder could not have taken place that way and/or could not have been committed by the defendants.

In this case, the prosecution didn't even bother to try to show how the alleged rape and the murders were committed by the defendants. Most of the evidence that could have been used to demonstrate how the crimes were committed was deliberately destroyed or withheld by the police or never even found, eg crime scene pics, Hanna's clothing, the blond hair, murder weapon used on David, cigarette butts, semen samples, documentation on DNA testing, the hoe handle, finger prints on phones or on anything else, CCTV coverage, witness testimonies. They just relied on the inadmissible forced confessions which failed to explain how the crimes were committed in a way that could not be corroborated by evidence or even made sense.

So yes I agree with you that there was no coherent prosecution case to argue against. So all they could do was highlight the inadmissibility of the evidence that never should have been admitted in the first place,

It can't be an exaggeration to say that Thailand has the very best justice system money can buy.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Dogmatix

[TheCruncher]

Investigators Tuesday interrogated Montriwat Toovichien, a 45-year-old bartender at AC Bar on Koh Tao who identified as the man seen in closed-circuit video footage in the hours before the Sept 15 bludgeoning deaths of Britons David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23.........

Pol Lt Gen Panya said a second suspect, who fled the resort island to Bangkok, will likely be taken into custody soon........

He said both suspects were captured by CCTV cameras and the police have gathered enough evidence to implicate them in the murders.

He said the southern police were coordinating with the metropolitan police to hunt him down, and expected to apprehend him today.

The southern police chief also assured the public that there was no arrest of scapegoats in this murder case as it now is a focal attention of the world.

I notice there is photo which McAnna put up on his FB page of Mon and Big Ears cop which reads underneath -

A photo taken by a Scottish tourist of two men suspected by police of involvement in the killing of two British tourists on Koh Tao.

This is the first I have read that the COP was suspected of involvement in the murders. Did he take a DNA test? Why has nothing been seen or heard of him regarding this investigation and trial? Nothing whatsoever. I find this most suspicious.

http://www.chiangraitimes.com/koh-tao-murder-suspect-arrested-another-on-the-run.html

Good job, digging up 13 month old articles with the excuse I haven't seen that, to keep the conspiracy going.

I thought you always tells other posters that they should read up before posting, so you were not aware of this picture on Sean's FB page?

By the way hasn't the picture been removed?

So the policeman is a suspect and he should have his DNA tested? Suspected by who, by someone who was seen leaving Koh Tao with blood spots on his guitar?

Well maybe I suspect the toilet cleaner. Why wasn't his DNA taken?

[TheCruncher]

.... if one has studied the history of the land you'd find that cover/frame ups are no stranger to it. Albeit to many others as well of course. There is one in particular that sticks in my mind and as far as importance goes you can't get much higher. If it can happen there.....what chance does this case have? They will have a conviction one way or another.

"what we wish, we readily believe , and what we ourselves think, we imagine others think also" ....

With this case the UK police have been involved which to me puts a different light on things. LOS knows this. I am sure the UK police know stuff but their hands are tied.

I hope I am right...

I'm sure the UK police knows things, and of course their hands are tied, but I have such an feeling they have informed the Miller and Witheridge families on the condition to stay anonymous.

Strange that the Miller family is so convinced that they have the real suspects. Not?

[RWA]

I have friends live in koh tao. Their say burma boys no kill the farang

You are not the first and probable not the last to quote the "jungle drums" of Koh Tao...

Unfortunately without hard facts, and locals who are not prepared to tell all they know, this IMHO is heading for probably one of the greatest miscarriages of justice in the history of Thailand.

Laughable - ever heard of the blue diamond case?

And 'jungle drums' aka village gossip maybe right in a few cases, but is mostly just that - gossip.

If that gossip was to be believed then why not believe the first rumour out of Tao 1 or 2 days after the murders, which said that (no names) the male victim was bisexual and his farang friend killed because he saw them making love on the beach with his female friend?

dear me

and who was it that came up with this rumor first?

you know?!

[aphuketinsider]

Its been a long time coming, but never too late. I hope my first contribution is worthwhile.

I think this is written by Mr Hall https://twitter.com/IanYarwood_Law/status/654580955953238016

Reforms needed in the Thai police investigation procedures.

Before anyone asks, yes I'm here for justice not to hang people without clear evidence

[RWA]

Investigators Tuesday interrogated Montriwat Toovichien, a 45-year-old bartender at AC Bar on Koh Tao who identified as the man seen in closed-circuit video footage in the hours before the Sept 15 bludgeoning deaths of Britons David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23.........

Pol Lt Gen Panya said a second suspect, who fled the resort island to Bangkok, will likely be taken into custody soon........

He said both suspects were captured by CCTV cameras and the police have gathered enough evidence to implicate them in the murders.

He said the southern police were coordinating with the metropolitan police to hunt him down, and expected to apprehend him today.

The southern police chief also assured the public that there was no arrest of scapegoats in this murder case as it now is a focal attention of the world.

I notice there is photo which McAnna put up on his FB page of Mon and Big Ears cop which reads underneath -

A photo taken by a Scottish tourist of two men suspected by police of involvement in the killing of two British tourists on Koh Tao.

This is the first I have read that the COP was suspected of involvement in the murders. Did he take a DNA test? Why has nothing been seen or heard of him regarding this investigation and trial? Nothing whatsoever. I find this most suspicious.

http://www.chiangraitimes.com/koh-tao-murder-suspect-arrested-another-on-the-run.html

Good job, digging up 13 month old articles with the excuse I haven't seen that, to keep the conspiracy going.

I thought you always tells other posters that they should read up before posting, so you were not aware of this picture on Sean's FB page?

By the way hasn't the picture been removed?

So the policeman is a suspect and he should have his DNA tested? Suspected by who, by someone who was seen leaving Koh Tao with blood spots on his guitar?

Well maybe I suspect the toilet cleaner. Why wasn't his DNA taken?

perhaps because the toilet cleaner and his cop friend didn't chase you all over the island, wanting you to hung yourself up in the hills?

[TheCruncher]

Investigators Tuesday interrogated Montriwat Toovichien, a 45-year-old bartender at AC Bar on Koh Tao who identified as the man seen in closed-circuit video footage in the hours before the Sept 15 bludgeoning deaths of Britons David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23.........

Pol Lt Gen Panya said a second suspect, who fled the resort island to Bangkok, will likely be taken into custody soon........

He said both suspects were captured by CCTV cameras and the police have gathered enough evidence to implicate them in the murders.

He said the southern police were coordinating with the metropolitan police to hunt him down, and expected to apprehend him today.

The southern police chief also assured the public that there was no arrest of scapegoats in this murder case as it now is a focal attention of the world.

I notice there is photo which McAnna put up on his FB page of Mon and Big Ears cop which reads underneath -

A photo taken by a Scottish tourist of two men suspected by police of involvement in the killing of two British tourists on Koh Tao.

This is the first I have read that the COP was suspected of involvement in the murders. Did he take a DNA test? Why has nothing been seen or heard of him regarding this investigation and trial? Nothing whatsoever. I find this most suspicious.

http://www.chiangraitimes.com/koh-tao-murder-suspect-arrested-another-on-the-run.html

Good job, digging up 13 month old articles with the excuse I haven't seen that, to keep the conspiracy going.

I thought you always tells other posters that they should read up before posting, so you were not aware of this picture on Sean's FB page?

By the way hasn't the picture been removed?

So the policeman is a suspect and he should have his DNA tested? Suspected by who, by someone who was seen leaving Koh Tao with blood spots on his guitar?

Well maybe I suspect the toilet cleaner. Why wasn't his DNA taken?

perhaps because the toilet cleaner and his cop friend didn't chase you all over the island, wanting you to hung yourself up in the hills?

If you were posting pictures of me on FB and call me a murderer, you would be in much bigger shit than Sean. Sean may call himself lucky that the let him depart.

[RWA]

Investigators Tuesday interrogated Montriwat Toovichien, a 45-year-old bartender at AC Bar on Koh Tao who identified as the man seen in closed-circuit video footage in the hours before the Sept 15 bludgeoning deaths of Britons David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23.........

Pol Lt Gen Panya said a second suspect, who fled the resort island to Bangkok, will likely be taken into custody soon........

He said both suspects were captured by CCTV cameras and the police have gathered enough evidence to implicate them in the murders.

He said the southern police were coordinating with the metropolitan police to hunt him down, and expected to apprehend him today.

The southern police chief also assured the public that there was no arrest of scapegoats in this murder case as it now is a focal attention of the world.

I notice there is photo which McAnna put up on his FB page of Mon and Big Ears cop which reads underneath -

A photo taken by a Scottish tourist of two men suspected by police of involvement in the killing of two British tourists on Koh Tao.

This is the first I have read that the COP was suspected of involvement in the murders. Did he take a DNA test? Why has nothing been seen or heard of him regarding this investigation and trial? Nothing whatsoever. I find this most suspicious.

http://www.chiangraitimes.com/koh-tao-murder-suspect-arrested-another-on-the-run.html

Good job, digging up 13 month old articles with the excuse I haven't seen that, to keep the conspiracy going.

I thought you always tells other posters that they should read up before posting, so you were not aware of this picture on Sean's FB page?

By the way hasn't the picture been removed?

So the policeman is a suspect and he should have his DNA tested? Suspected by who, by someone who was seen leaving Koh Tao with blood spots on his guitar?

Well maybe I suspect the toilet cleaner. Why wasn't his DNA taken?

perhaps because the toilet cleaner and his cop friend didn't chase you all over the island, wanting you to hung yourself up in the hills?

If you were posting pictures of me on FB and call me a murderer, you would be in much bigger shit than Sean. Sean may call himself lucky that the let him depart.

I shouldn't really bother to respond to this non sense, but would have had you threaten me with death, I would, without the doubt, say that if anything happens to me, the murderer is you (just like Sean did / said)

Sean didn't post a "pictures" on FB but desperate call for help

That "picture" was not somebody's portrait, but the whole story telling shot.

[CharlieH]

step back, let it drop, both of you.

[mookem]

Mookem...You not live on Koh Tao??...just your friends..yes ?

No live Koh Tao. Last time live Isan. Now live Scandinavia. korb kun ka.

[mookem]

If new member mokeem can contribute with more than one post to tell us more about his friends on KT, I am sure it will be appreciated.

I name mookem. I be a woman. Friends of i. Their open restaurent in koh tao.

Hello Mookem

name of the person ?

Kor toht ka. I no can say name friend. Their no tell me name anyone. Sorry. I have go work now ka.

Edited October 15, 2015 by mookem

[StealthEnergiser]

If new member mokeem can contribute with more than one post to tell us more about his friends on KT, I am sure it will be appreciated.

I name mookem. I be a woman. Friends of i. Their open restaurent in koh tao.

Hello Mookem

name of the person ?

Kor toht ka. I no can say name friend. Their no tell me name anyone. Sorry. I have go work now ka.

your welcome please come back again.

[smedly]

.... if one has studied the history of the land you'd find that cover/frame ups are no stranger to it. Albeit to many others as well of course. There is one in particular that sticks in my mind and as far as importance goes you can't get much higher. If it can happen there.....what chance does this case have? They will have a conviction one way or another.

"what we wish, we readily believe , and what we ourselves think, we imagine others think also" ....

With this case the UK police have been involved which to me puts a different light on things. LOS knows this. I am sure the UK police know stuff but their hands are tied.

I hope I am right...

I'm sure the UK police knows things, and of course their hands are tied, but I have such an feeling they have informed the Miller and Witheridge families on the condition to stay anonymous.

Strange that the Miller family is so convinced that they have the real suspects. Not?

The UK police observers would have nothing more to go on than we have, for e.g. Thai police would have informed them we have a DNA match from the victims to the suspects, the UK police would have assumed that (like them) some sort of protocol/standard would have been followed during the collection, processing and presentation of such evidence, they may have even asked (although I doubt it) if this was the case, it is also worth noting that there are ex UK police posting on this forum.

However, the UK police may have carried out their own investigation in the UK including forensics, the results of which will not be disclosed as it would be seen as interfering, they will also (like us) have their own thoughts on what they have seen transpire during the trial but again will not pass comment on such things not even to the victims families.

We may or may not hear the results of such investigations once the trial has concluded although that is not certain either.

We have seen the report from a UK pathologist that is clearly at odds with the Thai pathology report were they observed no evidence of rape as claimed by Thai police and the issue of non existent bite marks, no rape would mean no motive which is always key to any murder.

We have yet to see the pathology report on David from either side, I would be interested to know how Davids injuries were caused especially the obvious puncture wounds (we all have thoughts on that one)

As for the opinion of the families, it really doesn't matter in the scheme of things, they are not legal experts or police and are completely reliant on what they are being told by the Thai police and the prosecution case, they would naturally believe it is all above board and sound, they may have started questioning a lot of it as the case progressed, UK police may have been willing (of the record) to advise them on any questions they would have about the case but would have been very much in an unofficial capacity.

[StealthEnergiser]

Its been a long time coming, but never too late. I hope my first contribution is worthwhile.

I think this is written by Mr Hall https://twitter.com/IanYarwood_Law/status/654580955953238016

Reforms needed in the Thai police investigation procedures.

Before anyone asks, yes I'm here for justice not to hang people without clear evidence

Welcome to the thread I like your logo he is American animated television series that revolves around the adventures of a clumsy, dim-witted cyborg detective named Inspector Gadget that wears wacky gadgets on his head and body but a great show for kids .

Very good points the re-enactments should be stopped immediately especially when using scape goats and they forget their line.

I think it will take along time to change most of those things but hopefully there are steps being taken so that police can be trusted more.

[catsanddogs]

Investigators Tuesday interrogated Montriwat Toovichien, a 45-year-old bartender at AC Bar on Koh Tao who identified as the man seen in closed-circuit video footage in the hours before the Sept 15 bludgeoning deaths of Britons David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23.........

Pol Lt Gen Panya said a second suspect, who fled the resort island to Bangkok, will likely be taken into custody soon........

He said both suspects were captured by CCTV cameras and the police have gathered enough evidence to implicate them in the murders.

He said the southern police were coordinating with the metropolitan police to hunt him down, and expected to apprehend him today.

The southern police chief also assured the public that there was no arrest of scapegoats in this murder case as it now is a focal attention of the world.

I notice there is photo which McAnna put up on his FB page of Mon and Big Ears cop which reads underneath -

A photo taken by a Scottish tourist of two men suspected by police of involvement in the killing of two British tourists on Koh Tao.

This is the first I have read that the COP was suspected of involvement in the murders. Did he take a DNA test? Why has nothing been seen or heard of him regarding this investigation and trial? Nothing whatsoever. I find this most suspicious.

http://www.chiangraitimes.com/koh-tao-murder-suspect-arrested-another-on-the-run.html

Good job, digging up 13 month old articles with the excuse I haven't seen that, to keep the conspiracy going.

I thought you always tells other posters that they should read up before posting, so you were not aware of this picture on Sean's FB page?

By the way hasn't the picture been removed?

So the policeman is a suspect and he should have his DNA tested? Suspected by who, by someone who was seen leaving Koh Tao with blood spots on his guitar?

Well maybe I suspect the toilet cleaner. Why wasn't his DNA taken?

Yes, no doubt I did say posters should read up before posting - I've posted so much on TV since the sham of this investigation began fifteen months ago, I really can't remember. But that seems good and timely advice. My post says that the wording under the photograph in the link provided said that this was the first time I had read that the COP was suspected of involvement in the murder. My post does not say I was not aware of this picture on McAnna's facebook page - on the contrary, I am overly familiar with it unfortunately. As to the rest of your post - interesting.

[catsanddogs]

.... if one has studied the history of the land you'd find that cover/frame ups are no stranger to it. Albeit to many others as well of course. There is one in particular that sticks in my mind and as far as importance goes you can't get much higher. If it can happen there.....what chance does this case have? They will have a conviction one way or another.

"what we wish, we readily believe , and what we ourselves think, we imagine others think also" ....

With this case the UK police have been involved which to me puts a different light on things. LOS knows this. I am sure the UK police know stuff but their hands are tied.

I hope I am right...

I'm sure the UK police knows things, and of course their hands are tied, but I have such an feeling they have informed the Miller and Witheridge families on the condition to stay anonymous.

Strange that the Miller family is so convinced that they have the real suspects. Not?

Strange that the Miller family is so convinced that they have the real suspects. Not?

Please provide a link to

Miller family is so convinced that they have the real suspects.

[TheCruncher]

.... if one has studied the history of the land you'd find that cover/frame ups are no stranger to it. Albeit to many others as well of course. There is one in particular that sticks in my mind and as far as importance goes you can't get much higher. If it can happen there.....what chance does this case have? They will have a conviction one way or another.

"what we wish, we readily believe , and what we ourselves think, we imagine others think also" ....

With this case the UK police have been involved which to me puts a different light on things. LOS knows this. I am sure the UK police know stuff but their hands are tied.

I hope I am right...

I'm sure the UK police knows things, and of course their hands are tied, but I have such an feeling they have informed the Miller and Witheridge families on the condition to stay anonymous.

Strange that the Miller family is so convinced that they have the real suspects. Not?

Strange that the Miller family is so convinced that they have the real suspects. Not?

Please provide a link to

Miller family is so convinced that they have the real suspects.

I have no doubts, again if you do some reading in previous posts you will see that a reporter in court who spoke regularly to the Miller family stated: The Miller's are convinced of their guilt and want a guilty verdict. Others who sat through all the testimony are not.

I also have no doubts that the prosecution witness committed perjury, another fine example of why the prosecution case is not credible

Edited by HUH, 2015-10-13 11:54:49.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/855163-koh-tao-murders-2-dna-profiles-from-alleged-murder-weapon-do-not-match-defendants-dna/?p=9960132

[StealthEnergiser]

Some more from the report that HUH mentioned earlier

"Everybody has suspicions, even those who have heard everything said verbally in court. Circumstantial or not, it can be compelling evidence. The Miller’s have a lot of information which has come from the RTP and the British Government. Obviously they read what is written on here and fear being drawn into conspiracy theories given there are so many. They are not Thai experts and have little experience of the country. They have, of course drawn their own conclusions which might be different to that of people who live here, with lots of experience of Thailand, and access to local knowledge. Although they have admitted they have questions too. They obviously wanted to clarify the phone issue and did their part in that. But they did not personally observe the post mortems in Thailand or the DNA gathering procedures, or the reading of the DNA tests results any more than any of us did? And the prosecution only submitted post mortem photos from the neck up which did not substatntiate their claims of the conditions of the body, but Norfolk coroner did submit pictures of when the bodies got back to the UK and those photos contradicted what was in the Thai pathologist’s report. So given the DNA is the only solid evidence, the Millers cannot know more than any of us"

Edited October 15, 2015 by StealthEnergiser

[smedly]

I spent a little time on Koh Tao last year, beautiful Island, and was there just before the horrific murders took place, obviously I have been following this with interest, and I have yet to read anywhere as to what was the motive behind such a barbaric attack, as it seems to be the case that the British Pathologist reports has serious differences between the Thai one.

What was the motive?

some nasty lowlife scum that thinks he is something preying on innocent farang women on the island on holiday doesn't like being told to F'off in front of his mates when he tries it on

I said a very long time ago that it was probably Hannah on her own was followed out of the bar intending to walk a short distance to her room, David got involved by chance when he went to investigate a commotion on the beach near his room, he was likely assaulted and murdered first and that sealed Hannah's fate as she was a witness

Motive - some coward scum losing face in the bar during an altercation

[catsanddogs]

Its been a long time coming, but never too late. I hope my first contribution is worthwhile.

I think this is written by Mr Hall https://twitter.com/IanYarwood_Law/status/654580955953238016

Reforms needed in the Thai police investigation procedures.

Before anyone asks, yes I'm here for justice not to hang people without clear evidence

Thanks very much aphuketinsider for that link. Such a relief to read that in light of what most on here believe, and have believed since the investigation began. Welcome to thread btw. Like the user name - you have a lot of reading to get through to get up to spec so hope you've got some matchsticks for your eyes. Good to hear you're here for justice. You're in good company in the main.

[HUH]

A little more on the unofficial court reports, this one from Andy Hall

Zaw Lin’s clothes was tested for blood but came back negative so police alleged he washed his clothes with some strong chemical to remove any traces of blood that came from a very violent murder.

Hannah’s clothes worn on that night (skirt and top) are not even listed as official piece of evidence, apparently never tested and seem to have disappeared, according to defense lawyers. Hannah’s alleged underwear was found but never tested for DNA. David’s clothes in contrast was fully tested even though he was found naked apart from one sock. Hannah’s clothes not tested even though on her body when it was found, clothes allegedly pulled around by an alleged violent rapist and which more than anything else should have DNA of the perpetrator (s) on it.

Edited October 15, 2015 by HUH

[B166ER]

....Smedly in a nutshell.....yes! It's not rocket science. This is by no means an extraordinary technical murder case. Brutally simplistic in it's origins. Last year a German was outright murdered on Koh Samui uttering just words to three young locals who were sitting on his bike. Words....no knife was drawn on them, no gun or metal pipe. Not even a plastic dust collector. Words. They killed him in anger. For fleeting secondsit was done and then over, they all went home that night and slept. It has been mentioned that there was an altercation and words were exchanged. This cannot ever be taken back now. It's out there and the staff there were witness to it. One thing about Thailand is your never alone.....there's always someone, somewhere watching. Listening. The people on this site who wish for justice don't "threaten" anyone. Seems the select few who are voting for the other side....are. Why is that....

Edited October 15, 2015 by metisdead
Bold font removed.

[catsanddogs]

I spent a little time on Koh Tao last year, beautiful Island, and was there just before the horrific murders took place, obviously I have been following this with interest, and I have yet to read anywhere as to what was the motive behind such a barbaric attack, as it seems to be the case that the British Pathologist reports has serious differences between the Thai one.

What was the motive?

some nasty lowlife scum that thinks he is something preying on innocent farang women on the island on holiday doesn't like being told to F'off in front of his mates when he tries it on

I said a very long time ago that it was probably Hannah on her own was followed out of the bar intending to walk a short distance to her room, David got involved by chance when he went to investigate a commotion on the beach near his room, he was likely assaulted and murdered first and that sealed Hannah's fate as she was a witness

Motive - some coward scum losing face in the bar during an altercation

Glad you posted that cos I just remembered that in that post that HUH put up from Andy Hall twitter earlier on, it said about the altercation not being looked into. I'm sure it said 'Hannah's' argument/altercation. Not an argument/altercation, which makes me wonder if the defence may know something. I'll check.

[catsanddogs]

A little more on the unofficial court reports, this one from Andy Hall

Zaw Lin’s clothes was tested for blood but came back negative so police alleged he washed his clothes with some strong chemical to remove any traces of blood that came from a very violent murder.

Hannah’s clothes worn on that night (skirt and top) are not even listed as official piece of evidence, apparently never tested and seem to have disappeared, according to defense lawyers. Hannah’s alleged underwear was found but never tested for DNA. David’s clothes in contrast was fully tested even though he was found naked apart from one sock. Hannah’s clothes not tested even though on her body when it was found, clothes allegedly pulled around by an alleged violent rapist and which more than anything else should have DNA of the perpetrator (s) on it.

So did David's clothes that were tested have the Burmese men's DNA all over them? Oh sorry I forgot that Hannah and David were alleged to have been making out when they were attacked. What was the DNA result of David's clothes then?