I closed my business in thailand and saw surprising effects....

[Robert24]

I don't see how you can complain that it became too difficult to have foreigners working illegally. They were illegal. It is supposed to be difficult.

If everything you say is true, this was a substantial business, that should have been able to get work permits for 6 foreigners with special skills, such as speaking E. European languages. Perhaps you were not keen on paying Thai tax. It would make more sense, if you said you were trying to run the business legally but encountered official roadblocks but it sounds like you didn't even try.

You are completely missing the point.

He hired 20 Thais, who were mostly likely learning useful business skills.

The fact is the only reason the beaurocratic government red tape like this exists is that Government beaurocrats typically have no skills whatsoever. No viable method to make a living (unlike the workers he employed), so their only source of income is in levying taxes and fees on visas and permits.

That is, making the business man's life more difficult.

How can any foreign worker/business person legitimately say Business Visas and Work Permit laws are "supposed to be difficult" ?

Visas and Work Permits are not commandments from God. They only designed to impede business in order to enrich parasites.

Perhaps it is you missing the point. The Thai government has a responsibility to its citizens, not wily foreigners trying to make a quick buck. Thailand does have a system in place that brings in skilled workers and legitimate international businesses that will create jobs. Thailand had FDI in 2013 and 2014 of US$14.4 billion and US$12.8 billion, respectively. These figures most likely don't include dodgy characters like the OP trying to milk personal profits under the table. Why some of you guys think Thailand owes you some entitlement that most other countries wouldn't allow for their foreigners is beyond me.

I rarely believe in economic stats once i visited a town in southern Italy which has an official unemployment rate of 35% and 40% declared to be poor yet most of the residents drives Mercedes and BMWs and travel to the Maldives for vacations and just like those SPAs and karaokes parlors that make billions of cash under the table while they pretend to offer basic service, you are still fool and you believe some stats, read Chuvit's book to have clear idea how the real economy is run in this country, those stats are only fake and have nothing to do in reality, just like TAT s stat of high arrival numbers when most hotels are empty of tourists, the economy is like a very complicated factory machine you broke one part and the rest will

stop since the money flow will eventually ceases and the government economists will be scratching their heads about how to fix it, not even very advanced economies like USA or many G7 countries dare to disturb this natural flow, i haven't heard of any major immigration cracks in those nations.

my post was based on an accidental discovery that almost all of my former Thai employees did not find any new jobs since 9 months and how my two former Thai contractors closed down their businesses and a landlord unable to find any new tenants for his luxurious condos and offices, although my business were a drop in the ocean it did have some effects and considering the Exodus of other medium and small entrepreneurs it will definitely slow the economy to a great extent.

I agree that Thailand must move on the next stage but I think Thailand lacks the laws, infrastructure or skilled workers in the levels of Singapore, Japan or south Korea to move its economy to different industry, the current exodus I am currently witnessing particularly from the Koreans will bring more wealth to neighbor countries like Vietnam and Cambodia and in the future will create a very fierce competition between Thailand and them.

agree with what you write. Measuring macro economic data is difficult and never 100% correct. However tourist numbers are not difficult to measure and the increase of tourists in Thailand is real, it's just shifting from European tourists to Asian tourists. A trend that will continue and businesses in Thailand that are positioned for this will do very well. It's those places who cater for European or Russian tourists that struggle.

Agree also with your point that Thailand is not on the level of Singapore, Japan or Korea re infrastructure, education and skills. However cost levels are significantly(!) lower in Thailand as well, so Thailand makes it a great location for manufacturers. And have you ever considered labour laws in Japan? You wouldn't want to adopt any of that. And when it comes to hiring foreigners, I guess you wouldn't consider Japan as a model, right?

I guess the biggest competitor for Thailand will be Vietnam with signfiicantly lower costs. I don't think Cambodia or Laos will be anywhere near that league in the foreseeable future. But agree the future will be far more competitive for Thailand and Thailand has to do more if it wants to continue to grow like in the past.

[The Beguiled]

From one of the leading stories in Bangkok Post today and as quoted "Meanwhile, Mr Somkid has said ease of doing business is the government's first priority, and measures will be introduced to streamline the process, starting with help in setting up shop" (http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/news/697648/finance-ministry-weighs-incentives)

would seem to suggest that the Thai government recognises problems similar to "marcofunny" situation!

"duanebigsby" is right on the money when referring to entities that operate in Thailand and it is not just the large corporations that play with books and licences. A builder (with a family) I know has 17 passbook bank accounts and every 3 years makes enough money to buy a block of land; build a house and rent it out and he has been doing this for 20+ years yet only pays tax as an employee which if under 180,000 baht in a year is nil tax. It would seem that it is common to cheat the Thai system and the volume of people benefiting from this are Thais.

Last point is the acceptance of corruption in Thailand by Thais, from memory the last published survey was 2 years ago and "68% said corruption is OK as long as they can get some".

Amazing Thailand

[bearpolar]

One wonders: Do those spouting, "WP" and "Taxes" go on about Thai businesses that do all sorts of "funny" things to stay open?

Some of which they most probably frequent and patronize.

Watered down liquid condiment.

My woman has been running registred businesses for 5 years in Thailand and has yet to pay a single cent in tax(1 or 2 payment a 4-5 years ago was enough for the local official). The banks are so retarded that transfering funds from one of her bank account to the other one is accepted as proof of income for large loans.

Edited September 18, 2015 by bearpolar

[The Beguiled]

One wonders: Do those spouting, "WP" and "Taxes" go on about Thai businesses that do all sorts of "funny" things to stay open?

Some of which they most probably frequent and patronize.

Watered down liquid condiment.

My woman has been running registered businesses for 5 years in Thailand and has yet to pay a single cent in tax(1 or 2 payment a 4-5 years ago was enough for the local official). The banks are so retarded that transferring funds from one of her bank account to the other one is accepted as proof of income for large loans.

Exactly what I have stated earlier on this topic.

Someone previously wrote "when in Rome........"

Amazing Thailand

[Berkshire]

my post was based on an accidental discovery that almost all of my former Thai employees did not find any new jobs since 9 months and how my two former Thai contractors closed down their businesses and a landlord unable to find any new tenants for his luxurious condos and offices, although my business were a drop in the ocean it did have some effects and considering the Exodus of other medium and small entrepreneurs it will definitely slow the economy to a great extent.

I agree that Thailand must move on the next stage but I think Thailand lacks the laws, infrastructure or skilled workers in the levels of Singapore, Japan or south Korea to move its economy to different industry, the current exodus I am currently witnessing particularly from the Koreans will bring more wealth to neighbor countries like Vietnam and Cambodia and in the future will create a very fierce competition between Thailand and them.

That's the problem, Marco, I just don't believe what you're saying regarding the impact of you leaving. It's like you're making up stuff which sounds like what "you would like to have happen" after you left. But how can you possibly know exactly what's going on after you've long gone? And even then, whether it was as a direct result of you leaving? It doesn't add up.

You're not the first. There have been several bitter expats leaving and claiming to take their millions elsewhere. It's like a guy who's been dumped by his GF and claiming that he's so much better off and she should regret dumping him. But trust me, she doesn't.

[Misty]

Yes, I'd have to agree with Berkshire. Thailand's economy is currently negatively affected by both external and internal factors. Externally, the fall in intra-regional trade thanks to a downturn in trade from China and its satellite economies is a drag on the economy. Meanwhile the Thai baht until very recently has strengthened against the currencies of many of its trade partners. Internally, Thailand has an overleveraged consumer and potentially overinvestment in certain nonproductive sectors.

The OP's leaving didn't cause the above factors. Just like the OP selling his Thai stocks didn't cause a subsequent correction in the SET.

[Nomyai]

Why didn't your foreign staff have a Non B visa and a work permit ? You are openly admitting that your foreign staff were working on ED and Tourist Visas... Either a troll or a perfect example of the fact that you can send a man to the moon but you still can't fix stupid.

I am not the only business that were running this way, you can not waste your time and resources applying for a very complicated paperwork for some staff who will stays 5 or 7 months working with you, the staff were constantly changing and there is no flexible visa work scheme such as the Australian working holiday visa program, the Cambodian business visa however is straightforward you pay $300 to an agent and you have a one year visa without any hassle.

only a fool thinks that foreigners will compete or steal jobs or wealth from locals, take a look at north Korea which illustrates the best example when a country closes its doors completely to foreigners.

Brown is in......................hahaha. And so are 4.5 feet people!

[andykang]

well done!

[Cylon]

My Non Imm B visa has been in for 10 weeks, I can not import material until it is renewed. I too will have to lay off my Thai staff. I have asked but not received an explanation other than "queue"

[Don Mega]

been in what for 10 weeks ?

[ericthai]

My Non Imm B visa has been in for 10 weeks, I can not import material until it is renewed. I too will have to lay off my Thai staff. I have asked but not received an explanation other than "queue"

It has been where for 10 weeks? My staff always get mine done in about 1-2 weeks. Also why are you not able to import. The company has the import license not you.

Your work permit should have nothing to do with importing. We don't import on a regular basis as we are manufacture and export, but in the past I have had equipment imported from

Australia, Taiwan and Japan. Staff have never asked for my work permit to import.

[Cylon]

My passport is required everytime we transfer funds overseas for material, without a valid B visa the bank said I can no longer import. visa renewal application went in on the 17th of July.

[casualbiker]

My passport is required everytime we transfer funds overseas for material, without a valid B visa the bank said I can no longer import. visa renewal application went in on the 17th of July.

Via an agent or direct. Which immigration office.

[Cylon]

Its with an agent, She said no one on Phuket can approve renewal of B visa, so it has had to go to Hat Yai ??? she also said some of her clients have been waiting 3 months ?

[ericthai]

My passport is required everytime we transfer funds overseas for material, without a valid B visa the bank said I can no longer import. visa renewal application went in on the 17th of July.

ok, thats not the same as " I can not import material until it is renewed. " so the issue is not being able to transfer funds, not an issue with importing.

Are you using your personal funds? The company should be able to transfer funds without needing your visa. All you need to do is show the invoice to the your company.

So it sounds like you are trying to get an extension of stay on a "B" visa. I think the agent is screwing with you. You might have been better off just going to Penanag or Laos and get a new "B" visa.

I always got a new visa as typically I go back the USA each year so just got a new visa there. Then when my Work permit was ready to expire my staff handled that. Max 2 weeks.

You need to go to the agents office and tell them you want you money back and your passport and if not then you are going to the police. Chances are very god she lost your passport.

Speak to you bank about your company sending the funds. no you personally.

Good Luck!

[casualbiker]

Its with an agent, She said no one on Phuket can approve renewal of B visa, so it has had to go to Hat Yai ??? she also said some of her clients have been waiting 3 months ?

It seems ALL government offices in Phuket make up their own rules.

[marinediscoking]

One wonders: Do those spouting, "WP" and "Taxes" go on about Thai businesses that do all sorts of "funny" things to stay open?

Some of which they most probably frequent and patronize.

Watered down liquid condiment.

My woman has been running registred businesses for 5 years in Thailand and has yet to pay a single cent in tax(1 or 2 payment a 4-5 years ago was enough for the local official). The banks are so retarded that transfering funds from one of her bank account to the other one is accepted as proof of income for large loans.

She has probably just a business license not a registered business which is the most basic in the eyes of the government. They are normally required to pay tax twice a year and it is only a few hundred bath with a thousand or two to the accountant. This is looked on by the gov. as a sole proprietorship and offers absolutely no protected to her or her personal assets.

When I started my business I used a thai so it was at least somewhat legal in-case a local copper or tax person came by. I only did this a short amount of time to see if the business was a viable venture.

I was lucky as a friend of mine at the same time in the same situation as me sacked a bad employee. She went to the immigration, reported him, they arrested him, he refused to pay their bribe, got a lawyer, told them he would plead not guilty at court. Immigration then went to the social security office, the SS officials went to the thai revenue dept. and they started a tax audit. He was in jail 10 days before he could get bail. Then a big criminal law suit was filed by the chonburi prosecutor and he was looking at several years in jail. After his lawyer could not delay the case any longer he paid 2.5 million to settle it. He was not even working in the shop, he would just come by to pick up the money once a day but they waited for him.

I opened a LTD here shortly after that. So to the OP you are full of BS to claim to have had a business here of that size of any length of time. It only take one employee or someone jealous of that employee (there always are as thai's like to boast) to get the authorities involved. If not, then you are the luckiest person in thailand.

By the way you can run a LTD here and only pay 15K in monthly tax/accounting fee's so not so much to sleep well at night.

[Kitsune]

Marco

Thank you so much for your very interesting insight and for sharing your experience so candidly.

I completely agree with you about the fact that visa runners are not Thailand's problem but invaluable work forces and skills Thailand sorely misses. They are also great for the economy, as the example of your company shows, but this is a brainwashed place where everyday government and medias conveniently describe foreigners as the root of all evils. They are the perfect designated targets so that people dont dig too much into finding who the real parasites are.

Regarding the actual effects of your leaving, in my opinions condos not being rent or ex-employees not finding new jobs, is due more to the lack of reactivity skills (being proactive at job search / marketing condos spaces) and relying on luck rather than work.

And if I have no doubt Thailand's xenophobic laws and attitude is making them lose a lot of medium small businesses to neighboring countries, it won't really affect the economy as on the other hand, global corporate companies based in SE Asia like anywhere outside Thailand (Cambodia,Myanmar, Malaysia..) will all still have their headquarters in Bangkok due to the sheer level of infrastructures here. That means corporate managers and directors with their family (High-end offices, luxury houses, international schools, maids, chauffeurs, etc)

[ttthailand]

I had a Thai registered company for over ten years. Always hassles with work permits and just about everything else. We paid taxes had employees and followed every rule but still hassles. We provided technical support and serviced foreign company's in the Asian market. 95 % of our earnings came from out side of Thailand. Never again would I open another company here. It seems like everyone is against you and trying to scam or shut you down.

Edited October 10, 2015 by ttthailand

[SheungWan]

my post was based on an accidental discovery that almost all of my former Thai employees did not find any new jobs since 9 months and how my two former Thai contractors closed down their businesses and a landlord unable to find any new tenants for his luxurious condos and offices, although my business were a drop in the ocean it did have some effects and considering the Exodus of other medium and small entrepreneurs it will definitely slow the economy to a great extent.

I agree that Thailand must move on the next stage but I think Thailand lacks the laws, infrastructure or skilled workers in the levels of Singapore, Japan or south Korea to move its economy to different industry, the current exodus I am currently witnessing particularly from the Koreans will bring more wealth to neighbor countries like Vietnam and Cambodia and in the future will create a very fierce competition between Thailand and them.

That's the problem, Marco, I just don't believe what you're saying regarding the impact of you leaving. It's like you're making up stuff which sounds like what "you would like to have happen" after you left. But how can you possibly know exactly what's going on after you've long gone? And even then, whether it was as a direct result of you leaving? It doesn't add up.

You're not the first. There have been several bitter expats leaving and claiming to take their millions elsewhere. It's like a guy who's been dumped by his GF and claiming that he's so much better off and she should regret dumping him. But trust me, she doesn't.

Lots of contributors here on this thread who appear to have little or no experience of actually running a business but are undoubted experts on how things should work. I don't think the OP is better and twisted, he just decided that he considered Cambodia a better environment for running his business and from his contacts has observed that the withdrawal of his business has had negative impact on those previously working with the business in Thailand. It would be nice to get some feedback in about a year on how the new location has worked out.

[55Jay]

Still droning on about Thailand, 1 month and 8 pages later.

Get over it already.

Edited October 13, 2015 by 55Jay

[copa8]

Cambodia is now starting to get serious requiring foreigners to have work permits. So what is OP going to do then once the same situation happens in Cambodia- move to Africa?

Rwanda, Somalia or Democratic Republic of the Congo?

[Berkshire]

Cambodia is now starting to get serious requiring foreigners to have work permits. So what is OP going to do then once the same situation happens in Cambodia- move to Africa?

The OP will go on a Cambodia-Visa forum and boast that his departure has caused the collapse of the Cambodian economy.