US general: Only handful of Syrian fighters remain in battle

[webfact]

US general: Only handful of Syrian fighters remain in battle
By DEB RIECHMANN and LOLITA C. BALDOR

WASHINGTON (AP) — No more than five U.S.-trained Syrian rebels are fighting the Islamic State, astoundingly short of the envisioned 5,000, the top U.S. commander in the Middle East told angry lawmakers on Wednesday. They branded the training program "a total failure."

After the first 54 fighters were sent in to fight in July, a Syrian affiliate of al-Qaida attacked the group, killing several and taking others hostage while many fled. Asked how many remain, Gen. Lloyd Austin told the Senate Armed Services Committee, "It's a small number. ... We're talking four or five."

Congress has approved $500 million to train Syrian fighters, and officials have said fewer than 200 are going through training now. One of the problems has been that many Syrian fighters want training and equipment to fight the government forces of President Bashar Assad, but the U.S. program is limited to rebels who agree to only battle the militants.

The stunning admission from Austin came as defense officials scrambled separately to respond to allegations that they skewed intelligence assessments to give a rosier picture of conditions on the battlefield.

The Obama administration was already struggling to defend its military strategy to "destroy and degrade" the terrorist group with an air campaign and programs to train, assist and equip local forces. Lawmakers and Republican presidential candidates have assailed the administration, contending that it has had limited or no success in fighting the militants.

"We have to acknowledge this is a total failure," Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Ala., said about the training. "I wish it weren't so, but that's the fact."

Austin told committee members that the U.S. was looking at better ways to deploy the Syrian forces, but he admitted the U.S. was not even close to reaching its goal of training 5,000-plus in the near term. He predicted it would take years to defeat IS and to restore stability in Iraq and Syria.

"OK. So we're counting on our fingers and toes at this point when we had envisioned 5,400 by the end of the year," lamented Sen. Claire McCaskill, D-Mo.

Austin maintained the operation was making progress and said the military had always insisted the campaign would take time. The Pentagon also made it clear that U.S. military troops have done no training in Syria. Instead, U.S. special operations forces work with Syrian troops outside the country, including across the border in Iraq.

"We should expect that there will be occasional setbacks along the way, particularly in the early stages," he said. "And our partners, not us, are in the lead. It is taking a bit longer to get things done, but it must be this way if we are to achieve lasting and positive effects."

White House press secretary Josh Earnest said it's easy for critics to "play Monday morning quarterback" on the training program's slow progress. He said the president believed the training program could be a chance to expand the number of Syrian fighters who could cooperate with the U.S., but "thus far, that's not been the result." He said the Pentagon was working to make changes to get a better result.

Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., chairman of the committee, called the program a failure, outlined his vision of a U.S. strategy to fight IS and suggested that more American servicemen and women might eventually be needed.

"We need to help establish safe zones inside Syria where refugees and displaced people can be secure," McCain said. "We need forward air controllers to add precision and lethality to our air campaign. ... While no one believes that we need to invade Iraq or Syria, the fact is that we will likely need additional U.S. special forces and military advisers to be successful."

Austin said he would not recommend a buffer zone at this time.

Christine Wormuth, undersecretary of defense for policy, told senators that the U.S. was looking at how to speed up the recruiting and screening processes. It has taken months to identify and screen Syrian rebels, and many who are willing to fight are under 18 or have medical issues.

"While not 10 feet tall, ISIL remains a thinking enemy that adapts to evolving conditions on the battlefield," Wormuth said. "In Iraq the pace of our program has moved more slowly than we'd like, and in Syria, the stringent vetting criteria we're using at the outset of the program has contributed to smaller numbers than we'd hoped for."

On another issue, Austin said he would take "appropriate actions" if an investigation by the Defense Department's inspector general finds that senior defense officials altered intelligence to exaggerate progress being made against IS and other militants in Syria.

He also said he would make sure the analysts who made the allegations would not face retaliation.

Source: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/0abceecde0424380bc405126ad1784c1/general-only-handful-syrian-fighters-remain-battle


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-09-17

[Somtamnication]

Another failure by the USA; guaranteeing the islamification of Europe, installing dictators in northern Africa and heading towards WW3.

I am staying in Thailand.

[baboon]

Can't blame the U.S. Europe has firepower enough to prevent its Islamification, but the hand wringers in charge continue to bury their heads deeper and deeper into the sand. Direct your anger at Berlin, Stockholm, London, Paris, not Washington.

[NeverSure]

The lesson: Never in recorded history has a guerrilla army been defeated on its own soil.

Not even by the most powerful armies. When combatants are out of uniform and blending into their country including civilians they can't be found in such as way as to exterminate them.

The US should have learned that from the history of others and if not from Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan.. Somewhere it has to be learned.

The allies defeated Germany and Japan by holding the people responsible for their governments and declaring war against entire countries and bombing relentlessly including using nukes. Those wars were won outright to the point of surrender.

With current rules of engagement we might as well stay home.

[ABCer]

To summarize briefly and in a nut shell:

The World Leader with its complete arms superiority has failed in the last 20 - 25 years.

The losses are enormous:

- Money (not able to put a figure, but its huge);

- Men (not able to put a figure, but its huge);

- Prestige, Respect and Trust of Allies (unless they are ready to follow US down the same road?);

- Countries - Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Egypt, Libya, (please continue);

- Additional damage - the loss of Europe is in the process; Russia aliegnated to the point of no return; China watching on the side and quietly getting stronger.

The main reason - USA is not run by professionals but by professional politicians.

IMHO.

I am not happy to come to this conclusion.

Edited September 17, 2015 by ABCer

[simple1]

The lesson: Never in recorded history has a guerrilla army been defeated on its own soil.

Not even by the most powerful armies. When combatants are out of uniform and blending into their country including civilians they can't be found in such as way as to exterminate them.

The US should have learned that from the history of others and if not from Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan.. Somewhere it has to be learned.

The allies defeated Germany and Japan by holding the people responsible for their governments and declaring war against entire countries and bombing relentlessly including using nukes. Those wars were won outright to the point of surrender.

With current rules of engagement we might as well stay home.

How about reviewing professional analysis on strategies that lead to win / loss against insurgencies. BTW the UK population centric strategy in Malaya was successful as was the US Sunni Awakening campaign in Iraq.

http://www.rand.org/pubs/monographs/MG965.html

http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR291z1.html

[NeverSure]

Another failure by the USA - snip-

Uhhh... The UK supplied 1/3 of the troops for the invasion of Iraq... Australia had troops in there too...

I am staying in Thailand. thumbsup.gif

Uhhh... Thailand supplied troops for the war in Iraq. Thailand has had more than 7,000 people killed in Islamic terrorist attacks just since 9/11. There was a big one in Bangkok recently...

There's no where to hide. Are you afraid to fight?

Cheers.

Edited September 17, 2015 by NeverSure

[ABCer]

NeverSure,

< Are you afraid to fight?>

Fight what? Fight who? Human Psychology was always their weak point. One cannot fight ideology, ideas.

I am afraid it's too late for me to re-educate people.

Asymmetric wars (you called them wars against insurgents) are not winnable. At the end the win is

- short

- the methods must be physical extermination

- and you are never safe

IMHO historically Stalin was the most successful in such kind of war. Wouldn't want to wear his shoes. Islamists may be another example. Wouldn't want to be one either.

What's left? - Trying to hide in Thailand and hoping to die before...

Edited September 17, 2015 by ABCer

[NeverSure]

What's left? - Trying to hide in Thailand and hoping to die before...

What are you afraid of?

Come to America where I and 100 million of my best friends are well armed and don't take shit off anyone.

We'll probably live to see just why my "best friends" won't give up their guns, too.

Cheers.

[robblok]

The lesson: Never in recorded history has a guerrilla army been defeated on its own soil.

Not even by the most powerful armies. When combatants are out of uniform and blending into their country including civilians they can't be found in such as way as to exterminate them.

The US should have learned that from the history of others and if not from Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan.. Somewhere it has to be learned.

The allies defeated Germany and Japan by holding the people responsible for their governments and declaring war against entire countries and bombing relentlessly including using nukes. Those wars were won outright to the point of surrender.

With current rules of engagement we might as well stay home.

Maybe if the US had stayed out of the middle east all of this crap would not have happened in the first place. Faking proof of chemical weapons to invade countries. Now look what we got more refugees as ever and who has to pay for it.. not the US.

Sometimes its better to leave dictators where they are democracy just does not always work.

[ABCer]

NeverSure,

Thanks, my friend for the invitation. I am really grateful, but it is not for me. I am afraid you and your friends will have to physically exterminate 200 million others. But keep your arms. You might need them sooner than some people think.

I'm not afraid of anything because I'm not afraid to die. At my age if I die tomorrow, nobody will say I've left too early. But I am not in a hurry either.

I blame only Politicians. Even more than Muslims. It is through the Politicians that we have a Muslim problem.

Otherwise - I'm cool.

[gandalf12]

Can't blame the U.S. Europe has firepower enough to prevent its Islamification, but the hand wringers in charge continue to bury their heads deeper and deeper into the sand. Direct your anger at Berlin, Stockholm, London, Paris, not Washington.

America has a history of stirring up trouble then leaving and letting the rest of the world sort it out. If the USA doesnt have the balls to finish what it starts they should keep their nose out of other countries

[Scott]

Troll post removed.

[Credo]

Can't blame the U.S. Europe has firepower enough to prevent its Islamification, but the hand wringers in charge continue to bury their heads deeper and deeper into the sand. Direct your anger at Berlin, Stockholm, London, Paris, not Washington.

America has a history of stirring up trouble then leaving and letting the rest of the world sort it out. If the USA doesnt have the balls to finish what it starts they should keep their nose out of other countries

Perhaps a little blame could go on the colonial masters who were meddling around.

[gandalf12]

Can't blame the U.S. Europe has firepower enough to prevent its Islamification, but the hand wringers in charge continue to bury their heads deeper and deeper into the sand. Direct your anger at Berlin, Stockholm, London, Paris, not Washington.

America has a history of stirring up trouble then leaving and letting the rest of the world sort it out. If the USA doesnt have the balls to finish what it starts they should keep their nose out of other countries

Perhaps a little blame could go on the colonial masters who were meddling around.

Who screwed up Iran and Iraq? The USA. Agreed Sadam was not a nice person but you didnt have the situation that exists now. In Vietnam you caused a lot of bloodshed and at the end of the day was runner up.

Get real about this, the USA is hated around the world for the way it acts.

[jomcondo]

lets go back to 2002

iraq was stable under saddam

libya was stable under gaddafi

syria was stable under assad

along come US/UK muppets and.....

[robblok]

Can't blame the U.S. Europe has firepower enough to prevent its Islamification, but the hand wringers in charge continue to bury their heads deeper and deeper into the sand. Direct your anger at Berlin, Stockholm, London, Paris, not Washington.

America has a history of stirring up trouble then leaving and letting the rest of the world sort it out. If the USA doesnt have the balls to finish what it starts they should keep their nose out of other countries

Perhaps a little blame could go on the colonial masters who were meddling around.

Who screwed up Iran and Iraq? The USA. Agreed Sadam was not a nice person but you didnt have the situation that exists now. In Vietnam you caused a lot of bloodshed and at the end of the day was runner up.

Get real about this, the USA is hated around the world for the way it acts.

I certainly don't hate them, just don't trust them as much as I did before. It was only about oil, the others who said it back then were right and I was wrong.

[JingerBen]

Another fiasco to add to the long list.

We haven't decisively won a war since 1945.

[JakeSully]

We will be welcomed as liberators! - Dick Cheny

LOL.. only thing welcome is our free money and women who work as aid workers.

And for the money we can't even get Syrians to fight for Syria.

[Tchooptip]

Can't blame the U.S. Europe has firepower enough to prevent its Islamification, but the hand wringers in charge continue to bury their heads deeper and deeper into the sand. Direct your anger at Berlin, Stockholm, London, Paris, not Washington.

One does not exclude the other

[JingerBen]

Who screwed up Iran and Iraq? The USA. Agreed Sadam was not a nice person but you didnt have the situation that exists now. In Vietnam you caused a lot of bloodshed and at the end of the day was runner up.

Get real about this, the USA is hated around the world for the way it acts.

I certainly don't hate them, just don't trust them as much as I did before. It was only about oil, the others who said it back then were right and I was wrong.

Yes, of course oil played a part in the invasion of Iraq, but there were other geopolitical factors involved.

To say it was just oil is oversimplifying it.

[reptile91602]

Well, hell the democrat politicians aren't any better.

[JakeSully]

Well, hell the democrat politicians aren't any better.

There's a difference. Republicans want to spend our money on bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb. If you're working in the defense industry or have shares in the defense industry.. great for you.

Democrats want to spend our money on things that make average middle income and low income people's lives better by pell grants, medicare, medicaid, food stamps.. you know the stuff AMERICAN CITIZENS can use rather than foreigners or illegal aliens.

I am against any US money being spent overseas.

[robblok]

Who screwed up Iran and Iraq? The USA. Agreed Sadam was not a nice person but you didnt have the situation that exists now. In Vietnam you caused a lot of bloodshed and at the end of the day was runner up.

Get real about this, the USA is hated around the world for the way it acts.

I certainly don't hate them, just don't trust them as much as I did before. It was only about oil, the others who said it back then were right and I was wrong.

Yes, of course oil played a part in the invasion of Iraq, but there were other geopolitical factors involved.

To say it was just oil is oversimplifying it.

Sure but it certainly was not about freeing people and weapons of mass destruction (as I believed before). I really trusted the US back then I was a bit naive.

[oneday]

"We should expect that there will be occasional setbacks (total failure) along the way, particularly in the early stages," he said. "And our partners, not us (excuses), are in the lead. It is taking a bit (much, much) longer to get things done, but it must be this way if we are to (keep the money rolling in) achieve lasting and positive effects."

Sounds like the platitudes and crap a politician would vomit up. Get out of the military general and run for office. You are perfectly suited.

[NeverSure]

Get real about this, the USA is hated around the world for the way it acts.

Get real about this. I now hate British and Australians for the hateful nonsense they post on TVF while "pretending" to be the nice guys.

I hate The British and Australians for being hypocrites. Tony Blair said "WMD's" and the British:

Supplied 1/3 of the troops for the invasion of Iraq while Australia also sent troops.

The next time you need help with the likes of WWII I hope the US tells you to shove it. Oh wait, it's happening and the US is telling you to shove it right now!!!

Good.

Europe is toast already.

[reptile91602]

Sounds like somebody put a bug up somebody's arse,

[ABCer]

Actually the General is frank and earnest - on one hand. As a military man.

On the other hand he is no politician, or he would have never said US can achieve lasting and positive effects.

Speaking of Islam or radical Islamists - such a thing is practically impossible. One cannot irradicate idea by force. Especially for long.

Even by 100% extermination of carriers of this idea. Which I am afraid he is not ready for.

Where does it leave us?

- Obama will retire soon hoping for his name to be ingrained on the Hollywood boulevard under our feet to spit on.

- The World looking at USA with a smirk saying - "Oh, no, not again"!

- Iranian Spiritual Leaders still calling out "Death to America!" and "Death to Israel!" and buying ballistic missiles for delivery of their ready product.

- Europe suffocating under the burden of 'poor refugees' with their old, young and most importantly child bearing age veiled ladies all demanding welfare.

- Rich Persian Gulf states offering money to build Mosques for the invading hordes. But too fragile to take them in.

The spectacle is really entertaining!.

[simple1]

Get real about this, the USA is hated around the world for the way it acts.

Get real about this. I now hate British and Australians for the hateful nonsense they post on TVF while "pretending" to be the nice guys.

I hate The British and Australians for being hypocrites. Tony Blair said "WMD's" and the British:

Supplied 1/3 of the troops for the invasion of Iraq while Australia also sent troops.

The next time you need help with the likes of WWII I hope the US tells you to shove it. Oh wait, it's happening and the US is telling you to shove it right now!!!

Good.

Europe is toast already.

Don't know about the USA, but at least in Australia the majority of the public were against Gulf War 11. The invasion was a 'success'. However, the post invasion policies in Iraq were the ownership of the USA in which the US failed miserably; think you will find that at the end of the day this is the primary issue that creates peoples' bias against US policies due to the ongoing ramifications.

You might like to read 'Fiasco' by Thomas Ricks.

Edited September 17, 2015 by simple1

[ggold]

Get real about this, the USA is hated around the world for the way it acts.

Get real about this. I now hate British and Australians for the hateful nonsense they post on TVF while "pretending" to be the nice guys.

I hate The British and Australians for being hypocrites. Tony Blair said "WMD's" and the British:

Supplied 1/3 of the troops for the invasion of Iraq while Australia also sent troops.

The next time you need help with the likes of WWII I hope the US tells you to shove it. Oh wait, it's happening and the US is telling you to shove it right now!!!

Good.

Europe is toast already.

United we stand divided we fall. Including America.

Yes the poodles (UK, Australia) followed their master into war But since WW 2 Which wars have the US of A won? Was it Korea, Vietnam, Oh wait They did win in Grenada under Reagan (was it).

Lets just say the Americans know how to start a war but not how to finish one. Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan. Now America is even siding with the bad guy's (Iran) for what purpose?

American politicians have no idea about global politics. Sad but true.

Edited September 17, 2015 by ggold