PM slams remarks by an ambassador

[hgma]

I have invoked section 1 on myself and thus NOT comment on Thai comments.

[Basil B]

Outsiders understand 100% what's going on in Thailand and that's why he's so upset.

What really hurts is outsider know more than him... and know how to put it right.

[robertson468]

BRITS GO HOME!

When will the burning of Union Jack flags start???

Talk about getting your knickers in a twist and drawing attention to your own problems.

TIT.

Yes, talking about getting things wrong, the British Flag is called the Union Flag, NOT the Union Jack. The Union Flag is flown in HM Ships and is called Union Jack.

[gandalf12]

Once Thailand is fully integratd into ASEAN how will they handle that? For sure other ASEAN members will make comments about Thailand and its failings. Will Thailand tell them to keep out? Be a very bad move if they didnt listen to their fellow members but only time will tell

[elgordo38]

"Outsiders do not understand"

yup we 'outsiders', we lowly 'farang' and 'aliens' do not understand about precious Thailand that xenophobic of countries

truth is... most Thais don't 'get it' either... but DAMN you Ambassadors!!! go home !!!!!!!!!!!! I AM THAI !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In the months and years to come these outstanding exporters could become a rare breed indeed.

[gandalf12]

They are called Diplomats for a reason. Evidently the reason was forgotten in this case

[elgordo38]

I think Mr. Prayut should just ignore remarks , or at least get some PR advisor well skilled in world politics.

He is a General turned Prime Minister , obviously he is not very skilled in diplomacy.

That said, he has a difficult , if not impossible job to do, to keep peace in a troubled , developing country.

Do you really think that he can eradicate corruption, which goes from top to bottom of Thai society since hundreds or thousands of years ??

If you think that, you must be kidding yourself, it is impossible.... In the best of the cases it will take generations to achieve some results.

btw , I smell some hypocrisy here.... Are the great western democracies the same who lied to the public about WMD in Iraq, and wage war , despite ( at least ) 50% of the public being against that war ?

This is just one example of how perfect our western democracies are.

I am not apologist, but... Before pointing the finger, be sure that your hands are clean.

You wrote, "I am not apologist, but... Before pointing the finger, be sure that your hands are clean."

Why? Does it make the others offense less wrong? When you tell a policeman that a speeding car just drove by when he is writing you a ticket for speeding does he let you go? Does the cop not wearing a helmet writing you a ticket for not wearing a helmet let you off?

​You may feel the person is a hypocrite but that has nothing to do with the rightness or wrongness of his view of something else now does it?

Well, i tend to never discuss with Police, both in Thailand and in my own country, for good reasons, i think.

My point, which i think you understand very well, is that we are foreigners, we are well aware that our politicians are.... Not perfect, to use an euphemism.... Yet , some of us feel compelled to expect perfection from Thai politicians.

Of course you are free to criticise, and i am free to sit on the fence.

Ouch I hope it is not a picket fence. The first line in your statement went completely over my head. Yes your right our politicians and the ones world wide are not perfect and I would go so far to say that their actions are abysmal. Expect perfection from politicians here hardly. Acting in a manner of being deserving of the vote cast in their favor YES they should but do they? hardly. Stay sitting on the fence that is what politicians world wide want us all to do. Be careful fences can collapse when overloaded with fence sitters. Shish kabob anyone?

[wabothai]

At least he has freedom of speech in New York.

[myprivate]

I think Kent should have been...well...more diplomatic. It was obviously going to wind the PM.

Edited September 18, 2015 by myprivate

[kinmaew]

Utter Liar. His problem is foreigners know EXACTLY what is going on.

[easybullet3]

is this a staged-story purpose to entrap us foreigners to write slanderous comments so that they can create a Black-List of foreigners who are anti-thailand ? .. Lol

[sambum]

I would like to know what the ambassador said. I was taught "Sticks and stones may break my bones will never hurt me"

So if the ambassador was only giving an opinion how was he interfering with Thailands domestic problems? Opinions are opinions actions acting on them is another thing.

Sorry to be pedantic, but insert "but words" between "bones" and "will"!

Doesn't the ambassador realise that if he doesn't agree with Thailand's PM, he is not allowed to say so?

Otherwise he will be accused of "not understanding" and possibly a suitable case for "attitude adjustment"

[lostoday]

I would like to know what the ambassador said. I was taught "Sticks and stones may break my bones will never hurt me"

So if the ambassador was only giving an opinion how was he interfering with Thailands domestic problems? Opinions are opinions actions acting on them is another thing.

Sorry to be pedantic, but insert "but words" between "bones" and "will"!

Doesn't the ambassador realise that if he doesn't agree with Thailand's PM, he is not allowed to say so?

Otherwise he will be accused of "not understanding" and possibly a suitable case for "attitude adjustment"

He is supposed to say so if not they might think he is Chines and we couldn't have that now could we?

[mikemac]

Personally, I find that it's not the "average" Thai who is so against foreigners, and actually welcome them, as it is the "elites", who feel threatened by foreigners, as they know most foreigners don't swallow their bull feces. For the better part of 3 years, once a month I would take 4-6 day bike trip on my CBR through the north and north east of Thailand. During those trips I stayed in big cities, and small ones. I ate at major restaurants, and those along the roadside. And honestly, I liked the smaller cities and "roadside" restaurants than I did the bigger ones. The people were always friendly, wanting to talk, giving genuine smiles, and willing to help if I had a problem. They would laugh at my Thai, and I would laugh at their English, and we all got along great.

On one trip through Phitsanulok, I got caught in heavy rain. I pulled the bike under a large tree, broke out the rain gear and prepared to sit it out, and was ready to spend the night there, as it was starting to get dark, and I don't drive at night on the bike. Next thing I know, there is an old man with an umbrella, motioning for me to move the bike into his yard and under a lean too, then invited me into his house, where his wife and (apparently) grandchildren were all gathered. They asked if I was hungry, and I told them "a little bit", (all in Thai). The woman hurried away and returned shortly with sticky rice and fresh mango. We ate and tried to talk, and had a good time. The woman brought a mat, pillow and blankets for me to spend the night. I awoke around 5 the next morning, folded the blankets and mat, then placed a 1,000 baht note on top before putting on my kit and going out to my bike to resume my trip

Would an "elite" have done that for me? I have serious doubts about that. lol

I love the average Thai, especially here in the north, but have nothing but disdain and contempt for those who run this country like it's their own personal fiefdom.

I have had similar experiences with Thai people. Some very kind and goodhearted people in this country.

Sadly we hear too many nasty rants from posters who have nothing better to do than run the place down.

PS. I will PM you my address, you are welcome to stay any time. Only 900bt a night !

[phoenixdoglover]

I wonder what the General thinks of the UN, an institution created so that countries could meddle in each other's business.

[Thai at Heart]

Not only did the Ambassador not understand, but it is very apparent that some of the people in Thaivisa also. It is a problem with some some people want to make the country they are in be like the counter they left. Respect the country and it customs, culture and laws you are in. This is part of the problem in the EU, many new arrivals want there laws to override the laws of the country. If you do not like it plans fly out of Thailand also.

All he says is that in his opinion, democracy is superior and more effective in the long term than dictatorship.

And he gives various reasons why, none of which can really be disputed. What's so great about dictatorship? Anyone?

I mean the world is strewn with such a huge haul of massively successful counties that are dictatorships, right?

[skildpadden]

I agree that foreigner do not understand Thailand completely, e.g. some of the finer details of how they are dividing the goods among the government officials and exact amount of tea money when and to whom, can be confusing for many foreigners, and we will probably never really understand this finely tuned system.

That aside, I do believe, like others, that the PM is referring to H.E. Mark Kent's blog. In his blog post about democracy he talks of "the components of civil society – including a free press, charities, NGOs, religious organisations and international bodies such as the UN – all have a key role to play in a democracy." I think that is a sound advise that many of the world's nations would agree upon, but apparently it is not an advise that Thailand can use, because here we are much more special than any other country?

In Europe different opinions and disagreement is respected, but not here. In Europe it is not uncommon to ask for outside help in e.g. international police cases, environmental issues, trafficking, copyright issues, fraud etc. etc., but not here. I believe the blog post is meant as a friendly advise, that if you do not allow disagreement, the road to democracy will be a very long one - perhaps never.

Saying that H.E. doesn't understand Thailand is a bit of a stretch, he is after all the official representative of his government and therefore has access to much more information and intelligence reports than any ordinary person will ever have.

Such childish remarks from a PM doesn't really go well with the international community if you want to be respected by others - and really want that coveted UN Security Council seat.

Edited September 18, 2015 by skildpadden

[Wilsonandson]

I agree that foreigner do not understand Thailand completely, e.g. some of the finer details of how they are dividing the goods among the government officials and exact amount of tea money when and to whom, can be confusing for many foreigners, and we will probably never really understand this finely tuned system.

That aside, I do believe, like others, that the PM is referring to H.E. Mark Kent's blog. In his blog post about democracy he talks of "the components of civil society – including a free press, charities, NGOs, religious organisations and international bodies such as the UN – all have a key role to play in a democracy." I think that is a sound advise that many of the world's nations would agree upon, but apparently it is not an advise that Thailand can use, because here we are much more special than any other country?

In Europe different opinions and disagreement is respected, but not here. In Europe it is not uncommon to ask for outside help in e.g. international police cases, environmental issues, trafficking, copyright issues, fraud etc. etc., but not here. I believe the blog post is meant as a friendly advise, that if you do not allow disagreement, the road to democracy will be a very long one - perhaps never.

Saying that H.E. doesn't understand Thailand is a bit of a stretch, he is after all the official representative of his government and therefore has access to much more information and intelligence reports than any ordinary person will ever have.

Such childish remarks from a PM doesn't really go well with the international community if you want to be respected by others - and really want that coveted UN Security Council seat.

Childish remarks! What childish remarks? He told the truth and about time too. Foreigners stay out of Thai affairs. Is that childish to say that? Pls explain...

[allanos]

Clearly, if you're not confused, you don't know what's going on!

[Balance]

We have all heard this refrain many times; no one except a Thai person can know what is going on in Thailand. Many people, not Thai, including governments, academics, NGO's, and yes, even some of us expats who have lived here for a while and sincerely want Thailand to succeed. There are also some Thais who understand, but speaking up results in an invitation to an attitude adjustment. The common thread of these folks is a fundamentally historical analysis drawn upon 10's of not hundred's of countries that went through a similar metamorphosis.

At the center of the question: what is going on in Thailand? - the inescapable remainder is that what the PM thinks is going on is fundamentally different than what all of the other other people, non Thai and Thai alike think is going on. Given this difference that seems to be defined as existential in nature, it would be useful for the PM to state what he thinks is going on and the underlying analysis of how he got to his conclusions.

For the past 50 years the republican party in the United States has governed using euphemisms, like freedom and liberty and fear of change, fear of inclusion, fear of black and brown people, and more recently, yellow people also. But, the real thinking and beliefs and the underlying battles were hidden and no one talked about what was really going on. Until now. Thanks to the much needed social change that has been effected by the Obama administration and victories in the courts and thanks to the narcissist, Donald Trump, what has been really going on has come to the surface, into the light of day. And it is the most healthy phenomenon to happen to the American democratic system in at least 50 years.

So, clarity about what is exactly going on in Thailand would, perhaps, be a first step.

[rebo]

Okay now I'm worried about staying in Thailand. ... Time to get out ...

Keep coooool, Tukky ... Obviously you simply do not understand how things work in this country ... But don't worry --- no outsiders do understand ...

[Just1Voice]

I agree that foreigner do not understand Thailand completely, e.g. some of the finer details of how they are dividing the goods among the government officials and exact amount of tea money when and to whom, can be confusing for many foreigners, and we will probably never really understand this finely tuned system.

That aside, I do believe, like others, that the PM is referring to H.E. Mark Kent's blog. In his blog post about democracy he talks of "the components of civil society – including a free press, charities, NGOs, religious organisations and international bodies such as the UN – all have a key role to play in a democracy." I think that is a sound advise that many of the world's nations would agree upon, but apparently it is not an advise that Thailand can use, because here we are much more special than any other country?

In Europe different opinions and disagreement is respected, but not here. In Europe it is not uncommon to ask for outside help in e.g. international police cases, environmental issues, trafficking, copyright issues, fraud etc. etc., but not here. I believe the blog post is meant as a friendly advise, that if you do not allow disagreement, the road to democracy will be a very long one - perhaps never.

Saying that H.E. doesn't understand Thailand is a bit of a stretch, he is after all the official representative of his government and therefore has access to much more information and intelligence reports than any ordinary person will ever have.

Such childish remarks from a PM doesn't really go well with the international community if you want to be respected by others - and really want that coveted UN Security Council seat.

Childish remarks! What childish remarks? He told the truth and about time too. Foreigners stay out of Thai affairs. Is that childish to say that? Pls explain...

If Thailand wants to play in the international game, then they better be able to accept the rules, which INCLUDE criticism about things. If not, then close the borders to all foreigners, and their businesses, and see how long it takes to descend into total anarchy.

[lgking]

"At least he has freedom of speech in New York." wabothai

Any American that thinks that they have 'freedom of anything'...is clearly delusional.

America is the greatest living example of the 'boiling frog theory'...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog

Edited September 18, 2015 by lgking

[AnnieT]

I agree that foreigner do not understand Thailand completely, e.g. some of the finer details of how they are dividing the goods among the government officials and exact amount of tea money when and to whom, can be confusing for many foreigners, and we will probably never really understand this finely tuned system.

That aside, I do believe, like others, that the PM is referring to H.E. Mark Kent's blog. In his blog post about democracy he talks of "the components of civil society – including a free press, charities, NGOs, religious organisations and international bodies such as the UN – all have a key role to play in a democracy." I think that is a sound advise that many of the world's nations would agree upon, but apparently it is not an advise that Thailand can use, because here we are much more special than any other country?

In Europe different opinions and disagreement is respected, but not here. In Europe it is not uncommon to ask for outside help in e.g. international police cases, environmental issues, trafficking, copyright issues, fraud etc. etc., but not here. I believe the blog post is meant as a friendly advise, that if you do not allow disagreement, the road to democracy will be a very long one - perhaps never.

Saying that H.E. doesn't understand Thailand is a bit of a stretch, he is after all the official representative of his government and therefore has access to much more information and intelligence reports than any ordinary person will ever have.

Such childish remarks from a PM doesn't really go well with the international community if you want to be respected by others - and really want that coveted UN Security Council seat.

Childish remarks! What childish remarks? He told the truth and about time too. Foreigners stay out of Thai affairs. Is that childish to say that? Pls explain...

If Thailand wants to play in the international game, then they better be able to accept the rules, which INCLUDE criticism about things. If not, then close the borders to all foreigners, and their businesses, and see how long it takes to descend into total anarchy.

We may be in the process of watching that happen anyway. I feel quite dismal about what's happening in the wild wild east just at the moment. Not my usual optimistic. tolerant and accommodating self just lately.

[AnnieT]

We have all heard this refrain many times; no one except a Thai person can know what is going on in Thailand. Many people, not Thai, including governments, academics, NGO's, and yes, even some of us expats who have lived here for a while and sincerely want Thailand to succeed. There are also some Thais who understand, but speaking up results in an invitation to an attitude adjustment. The common thread of these folks is a fundamentally historical analysis drawn upon 10's of not hundred's of countries that went through a similar metamorphosis.

At the center of the question: what is going on in Thailand? - the inescapable remainder is that what the PM thinks is going on is fundamentally different than what all of the other other people, non Thai and Thai alike think is going on. Given this difference that seems to be defined as existential in nature, it would be useful for the PM to state what he thinks is going on and the underlying analysis of how he got to his conclusions.

For the past 50 years the republican party in the United States has governed using euphemisms, like freedom and liberty and fear of change, fear of inclusion, fear of black and brown people, and more recently, yellow people also. But, the real thinking and beliefs and the underlying battles were hidden and no one talked about what was really going on. Until now. Thanks to the much needed social change that has been effected by the Obama administration and victories in the courts and thanks to the narcissist, Donald Trump, what has been really going on has come to the surface, into the light of day. And it is the most healthy phenomenon to happen to the American democratic system in at least 50 years.

So, clarity about what is exactly going on in Thailand would, perhaps, be a first step.

I agree that a certain clarity is lacking. But then many of the military types are not being exactly honest or forthright, so it's understandable. Clear as mud really...

[allanos]

Unless H.E. Mark Kent is a career diplomat, there is actually every chance that he doesn't understand very much about Thailand - if anything at all.

Ambassadorships are very often political appointments, and, in this respect, America is no different to the majority of countries around the world.

An ambassadorship can be, and most likely is, a reward by a serving head of state (Obama?) to someone who has helped such head, politically.

These ambassadors are not obliged to know very much about the countries they are appointed to.

[AnnieT]

Okay now I'm worried about staying in Thailand. ... Time to get out ...

Keep coooool, Tukky ... Obviously you simply do not understand how things work in this country ... But don't worry --- no outsiders do understand ...

Well, to be fair, a number of retirees and other fugitives from their country of origin seem to be feeling the same way. Vietnam is the trend at the moment, if the talk is anything to go by. Everyone has their threshold of tolerance, I know I'm getting close to mine.

Not that the good general will worry about that I'm sure, he has bigger fish to fry than me, and right now seems concerned that he may end up in the deep fryer himself.

[AnnieT]

Unless H.E. Mark Kent is a career diplomat, there is actually every chance that he doesn't understand very much about Thailand - if anything at all.

Ambassadorships are very often political appointments, and, in this respect, America is no different to the majority of countries around the world.

An ambassadorship can be, and most likely is, a reward by a serving head of state (Obama?) to someone who has helped such head, politically.

These ambassadors are not obliged to know very much about the countries they are appointed to.

Well, he has specialist staff to advise him. Plus, to have clambered thus far up the greasy pole, he will have a pretty good understanding of people and their behaviour. Democracy and it's working too I should think.

Thais rather like to pretend they're surpassingly subtle and shrewd, but there are only a few buttons to press, most of them related to self-interest in one way of another. Or face too of course, though that's in the same forlorn (and pretty primitive) basket of motivators.

Edited September 18, 2015 by AnnieT

[allanos]

Americans, in general, tend to be extremely introspective and parochial, and don't have much knowledge of the outside world, despite modern-day communications like television and the internet. There is no reason to suppose Mr Kent is any different.

[lostoday]

Unless H.E. Mark Kent is a career diplomat, there is actually every chance that he doesn't understand very much about Thailand - if anything at all.

Ambassadorships are very often political appointments, and, in this respect, America is no different to the majority of countries around the world.

An ambassadorship can be, and most likely is, a reward by a serving head of state (Obama?) to someone who has helped such head, politically.

These ambassadors are not obliged to know very much about the countries they are appointed to.

Mark Kent graduated in Law from the University of Oxford. He gained a Master’s degree in European Law and Economics from the Université Libre de Bruxelles in Belgium, and has a postgraduate qualification in Business Administration from the Open University. He has studied Thai at Chiang Mai University, Khon Kaen University and Chulalongkorn University.

Now Miss or Mr allanos you may say how foolish you feel.