ZuluSixNine Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 criminal energy is not only in Thailand, happened around the world The only difference is that the people of Thailand are masters at it, I have seen many Thais, do the same thing to other Thais, however it is considered extremely geang mak mak !! if you do it to a Farung. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccvv Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Wow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harada Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 I can't comprehend how a woman would have 3 kids with someone she doesn't care about. Hey. but that's just me. So sad.. Yes it is hard to comprehend, but unfortunately this is the case in many Thai / farang relationships whereas someone with a larger bank balance takes precedence over being a mother,and in most of the cases that I know of the kids are the ones who are the biggest victims, and they need a lot of love and care for a long time to get through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko45k Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 So his wife is in prison and got 4 years, but then he goes on to say he doesn't think she made much money selling everything off ! then he wonders how he got in this mess, the average thai bird from a bar isn't going to have the knowledge to pull of a scam like this, I don't think these people who helped her just one day knocked on her door and said do you want to sell all your assets to us for next to nothing, she had to be up to no good maybe a Thai b/f or gambling debts. Then after all this losing his life savings he gets another Thai girl and knocks out another kid ! She talks to a friend who introduces her to a lawyer and the wheel can roll. When all it takes is a forged signature (if that was it, that I think I saw on the video it appears to be the scrawl of a child), and a lawyer who can put his stamps all over it without the slightest fear of recriminations, it will happen frequently. Rather strange he started another family, he already has kids to care for. Although he has presented himself as a gentleman, he has made some poor moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louse1953 Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 so super over weight Ian could not see this coming? sorry to say, just look at the body language and expression on this wife's face in all the photos. in the first 30 seconds you hear him say "... I was looking for a place with rule of law..." are you completely clueless? everything in this video is what I found on google seven years ago on the first day researching Thailand. He must have never done a moments research. I am sure Ian has a big heart, loved his wife and is a good and trusting person. But you must have a healthy dose of paranoia to survive in Thailand. Don't get married! Don't "buy" land. Assume nothing. Spot on.My missus's friends ask why i don't buy useless Issan land at top price like other farangs.I am not a water buffalo,i reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harada Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 When I first visited Thailand in 1983 I was given what I thought was some good advise from an American guy who had lived in Thailand for 20 years, and that was don't flaunt your money, if you are going to invest money in Thailand be prepared to loose it and keep a nest egg else where ( outside Thailand ), it worked for me, thanks Bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace of Pop Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 When you see signs that she doesn't like You talking to Old Hands here RUN. Had a Newbie been wised up he would have been dumped un scamed in a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minikev Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 All these comments about "Ian should have seen this coming" are unfair in my opinion. The moral of the story here is never invest anything in Thailand that you aren't prepared to lose. Because if the worst does happen and you find your self in the same situation as this Ian guy and Colin Vard then you ain't got a hope in hell of ever getting anything back. Police aren't going to help you. Lawyers aren't going to help you. Courts aren't going to help you. A long time expat I know, once told me that investing in Thailand is like putting money into a black hole. At the time I laughed at him for being so negative but the longer I stay here, the more I think that never have truer words been spoken. really? you think his wife grew up dreaming about marring a man who looks like Ian? You think Ian's wife is like "can't wait to have a sex with this man! he is way hotter than my Thai boyfriend from school!" You ever see a man like Ian in a Thai music video? in a romance film? in a fashion magazine? WAKE UP! It is all a lie. The nicer, more naive you are, the faster you are eaten alive here. Please. Men who come here to Thailand, retain control over your money. Live month to month. Be worth more alive than dead. The best you can say is Ian had seven years of a really nice illusion. It cost him everything but his life. so far. How long did your illusion last? You seem a little bitter towards Thai ladies. I'm 10 yrs in with mine and I haven't had one instance that made me mistrust her. She has stayed with me through good and bad times and all parts of our relationship are10 fold of any previous relationship. I completely agree with posters that say don't get married unless you do some homework about Thailand and the difficulties of staying here, as well as obviously fully knowing and been able to trust your future wife, that is just common sense wherever you choose to marry and settle. This is Thai visa and yes the story is about Thailand so it follows that people will make it sound like it's the only place it happens. It's not! We as educated grown men know the rules when we come here. We make choices usually wearing pink glasses. There are many many succesful relationships but then only bad news travels fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ling Kae Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Most us know why the Thais get away with this and take precautions to never be in that situation in the first place. Never ever buy any property of any sort or make any investment in this country, this is the rules that I have made for myself for the last 20 years.. The people in this video could have avoided all this heartache if they just rented. What is it with farangs wanting to make companies and only having 49% control and allowing Thais having 51% control? Would they be crazy enough to do this in their home country? Or paying millions of baht for a lease that can be forged and lost? Trust a Thai wife and put the property in her name? Only if you are willing to lose the lot. Keep all your investments in your home country in your name, safe and sound. Just rent, anything goes wrong, grab you bags and get on the first flight out and nothing but some furniture might be lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captspectre Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Would you trust Thailand and its people with your retirement savings i sure wouldnt. nothing new here, happens all the time when lonely old men come here and marry a sweet young thing and expect to live "happily" ever after! will happen again. it's never ending despite the many warnings posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louse1953 Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 criminal energy is not only in Thailand, happened around the world The issue isnt about criminal activity, its that the legal system does not redress the criminal activity, that it extends right through the legal profession and judicial system, even with the denial of the issue by the Deputy Governor.. There is a fundamental lack of moral fiber running right through the system.. No desire on the part of the police, the judiciary, or the officers of government to do that which is obviously right. As foreigners aren't supposed to buy property in Thailand, in person or by proxy, I can sort of understand the officials point of view. Which essentially is, "You come here, you break our property laws, then you want our help when it all goes wrong" You mean those laws that the Thais create systems to work around ?? He didnt own land.. He owned a minority stake in a company.. Colin had a lease.. Fair enough,but was it a real company making money or a bogus company purely set up to own property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffreyO Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 "since their mother was jailed". The report made it sound like nothing was done at all on his behalf... I'm curious what happened to put her in jail. I feel there's a big part of this story missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F4UCorsair Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 wow. What an amazing thread. "I am the owner of my own kamma, the heir to my own kamma, my own kamma is the cause of whatever happens to me. Whatever kamma I do good or bad of that I will become the heir." If there is justice in the world this is the only way it would work for surely some humans are always thinking that stealing someone elses wealth will make them happy. I have seen them become rich but not happy. If this happened to me would it be because of my own bad kamma I have done in this life or in the past? Would I have enough good kamma to pick myself up and keep going? There is no justice in courts but there maybe justice in the court room of life. ..... Unless you see the whole story over time maybe you do not see the whole story. Do you mean 'kaRma'? If so, you don't own karma, but are responsible for it. However you look at this guy, sympathetically or harshly, he's a sucker at best and complete fool at worst. I do admire his courage going public though, and whilst seeing his ex in the slammer doesn't deliver him any $$/£/Baht, he must surely be enjoying a sense of great satisfaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louse1953 Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 May I veer off topic a little? I have heard stories of vicious scams worked on farangs in Thailand by other farangs in positions of trust. This thread is full of warnings about doing business with Thais, but personally I am also very cautious about doing business with farangs here unless I know a good deal about them. The marital disaster discussed here which involved illegality can be matched by the damage which can be inflicted on (usually) a man by the law relating to marriage in the west. One thinks of the case of Robin Williams who faced with a ruinous divorce settlement and with the prospect of having to go on the road again as an entertainer in his seventies took his own life. I am not a lawyer and may not have the facts completely correct, but in my native country New Zealand they have the Family (destruction) Court. This court meets in secret and heavy penalties, ie jail time, threaten anybody who divulges what goes on in these courts. The matter is made worse because you cannot not be married in New Zealand. Just shack up with someone for a couple of years and she (it is usually she) can go to the Family Court and sue for maintenance and a portion of your possessions. In the case of a more regular marriage, a man may find himself stripped of his possessions and pay ruinous maintenance for decades. The Family Court will not accept DNA evidence to determine paternity of children. The sort of damage inflicted on the unfortunate subject in this thread could have been inflicted on him quite legally if he was in a broadly similar situation in New Zealand. And his attempts to publicise his plight would certainly put him in jail. All perfectly legal. Different ships, different long splices. Family Court =man,woman,maybe kids.Why make it sound like the man is screwed over.Surely a man can take a woman to court for mantanance or aint men smart enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckmandon Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Great article which shows Thailand in general what it really is. It is a place where foriegners are fair game for anyone who wants to rip them off. It may be the police, the local shop or your own family. The best thing for the world to do is avoid coming here even as tourists & definately avoid living here. No justice through courts or the government as everyone passes the buck saying out of my jurisdiction. Mr PM you really need to take control of your country as the world is watching & soon you may need help. You may get the same help as the Thais offer to their guests in your country. NONE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theguyfromanotherforum Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) I still think Thai people and women in general are fine. Most of these scams seem to happen outside Bangkok where old fat guys meet their honey online or in a bar and decide to build a house. Like I said before, if a Thai woman is not throwing herself at you she probably already has a career and will inherit a significant amount of land when her parents pass away. She won't need some old fat guy to take care of her. Edited September 20, 2015 by theguyfromanotherforum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loaded Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 All these comments about "Ian should have seen this coming" are unfair in my opinion. The moral of the story here is never invest anything in Thailand that you aren't prepared to lose. Because if the worst does happen and you find your self in the same situation as this Ian guy and Colin Vard then you ain't got a hope in hell of ever getting anything back. Police aren't going to help you. Lawyers aren't going to help you. Courts aren't going to help you. A long time expat I know, once told me that investing in Thailand is like putting money into a black hole. At the time I laughed at him for being so negative but the longer I stay here, the more I think that never have truer words been spoken. really? you think his wife grew up dreaming about marring a man who looks like Ian? You think Ian's wife is like "can't wait to have a sex with this man! he is way hotter than my Thai boyfriend from school!" You ever see a man like Ian in a Thai music video? in a romance film? in a fashion magazine? WAKE UP! It is all a lie. The nicer, more naive you are, the faster you are eaten alive here. Please. Men who come here to Thailand, retain control over your money. Live month to month. Be worth more alive than dead. The best you can say is Ian had seven years of a really nice illusion. It cost him everything but his life. so far. How long did your illusion last? You seem a little bitter towards Thai ladies. I'm 10 yrs in with mine and I haven't had one instance that made me mistrust her. She has stayed with me through good and bad times and all parts of our relationship are10 fold of any previous relationship. I completely agree with posters that say don't get married unless you do some homework about Thailand and the difficulties of staying here, as well as obviously fully knowing and been able to trust your future wife, that is just common sense wherever you choose to marry and settle. This is Thai visa and yes the story is about Thailand so it follows that people will make it sound like it's the only place it happens. It's not! We as educated grown men know the rules when we come here. We make choices usually wearing pink glasses. There are many many succesful relationships but then only bad news travels fast. To paraphrase Ian from the video report: "I'm 9 yrs in with mine and I didn't have one instance that made me mistrust her. She stayed with me through good and bad times and all parts of our relationship were 10 fold of any previous relationship." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert24 Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Most us know why the Thais get away with this and take precautions to never be in that situation in the first place. Never ever buy any property of any sort or make any investment in this country, this is the rules that I have made for myself for the last 20 years.. The people in this video could have avoided all this heartache if they just rented. What is it with farangs wanting to make companies and only having 49% control and allowing Thais having 51% control? Would they be crazy enough to do this in their home country? Or paying millions of baht for a lease that can be forged and lost? Trust a Thai wife and put the property in her name? Only if you are willing to lose the lot. Keep all your investments in your home country in your name, safe and sound. Just rent, anything goes wrong, grab you bags and get on the first flight out and nothing but some furniture might be lost. so if you haven't bought any property or other investments here the last 20 years? really? No stocks? No property? No life insurance etc whatsoever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ling Kae Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Most us know why the Thais get away with this and take precautions to never be in that situation in the first place. Never ever buy any property of any sort or make any investment in this country, this is the rules that I have made for myself for the last 20 years.. The people in this video could have avoided all this heartache if they just rented. What is it with farangs wanting to make companies and only having 49% control and allowing Thais having 51% control? Would they be crazy enough to do this in their home country? Or paying millions of baht for a lease that can be forged and lost? Trust a Thai wife and put the property in her name? Only if you are willing to lose the lot. Keep all your investments in your home country in your name, safe and sound. Just rent, anything goes wrong, grab you bags and get on the first flight out and nothing but some furniture might be lost. so if you haven't bought any property or other investments here the last 20 years? really? No stocks? No property? No life insurance etc whatsoever? Nothing, zero. All I have is a Thai Bank Account that I transfer small amounts too and use as needed. I use Insurance from my home country and all my investments are back home safe and secure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puukao Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 There seems to be many, many reason why NOT to come to Thailand, yet we all go.......... we take our kids, drink the kool-aid, buy the houses, enjoy the fake attention, the fake love, the fake interest, all for our money..... and then we are thrown out; broke, fat, tired, hot, thirsty, and more dumb. now immigration yells at us, people ask if we are sex tourists, and the poorest of the poor flock in our restaurants... and yet we come back!!! haha tomorrow i'm going to see a shrink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puukao Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) Most us know why the Thais get away with this and take precautions to never be in that situation in the first place. Never ever buy any property of any sort or make any investment in this country, this is the rules that I have made for myself for the last 20 years.. The people in this video could have avoided all this heartache if they just rented. What is it with farangs wanting to make companies and only having 49% control and allowing Thais having 51% control? Would they be crazy enough to do this in their home country? Or paying millions of baht for a lease that can be forged and lost? Trust a Thai wife and put the property in her name? Only if you are willing to lose the lot. Keep all your investments in your home country in your name, safe and sound. Just rent, anything goes wrong, grab you bags and get on the first flight out and nothing but some furniture might be lost. so if you haven't bought any property or other investments here the last 20 years? really? No stocks? No property? No life insurance etc whatsoever? Nothing, zero. All I have is a Thai Bank Account that I transfer small amounts too and use as needed. I use Insurance from my home country and all my investments are back home safe and secure. your investments are NOT that safe. stock market crash coming!!! housing crash coming!!! Edited September 20, 2015 by puukao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert24 Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Most us know why the Thais get away with this and take precautions to never be in that situation in the first place. Never ever buy any property of any sort or make any investment in this country, this is the rules that I have made for myself for the last 20 years.. The people in this video could have avoided all this heartache if they just rented. What is it with farangs wanting to make companies and only having 49% control and allowing Thais having 51% control? Would they be crazy enough to do this in their home country? Or paying millions of baht for a lease that can be forged and lost? Trust a Thai wife and put the property in her name? Only if you are willing to lose the lot. Keep all your investments in your home country in your name, safe and sound. Just rent, anything goes wrong, grab you bags and get on the first flight out and nothing but some furniture might be lost. so if you haven't bought any property or other investments here the last 20 years? really? No stocks? No property? No life insurance etc whatsoever? Nothing, zero. All I have is a Thai Bank Account that I transfer small amounts too and use as needed. I use Insurance from my home country and all my investments are back home safe and secure. and you never think you are missing out on some great investment opportunities? How much rent did you pay the last 20 yrs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ling Kae Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Most us know why the Thais get away with this and take precautions to never be in that situation in the first place. Never ever buy any property of any sort or make any investment in this country, this is the rules that I have made for myself for the last 20 years.. The people in this video could have avoided all this heartache if they just rented. What is it with farangs wanting to make companies and only having 49% control and allowing Thais having 51% control? Would they be crazy enough to do this in their home country? Or paying millions of baht for a lease that can be forged and lost? Trust a Thai wife and put the property in her name? Only if you are willing to lose the lot. Keep all your investments in your home country in your name, safe and sound. Just rent, anything goes wrong, grab you bags and get on the first flight out and nothing but some furniture might be lost. so if you haven't bought any property or other investments here the last 20 years? really? No stocks? No property? No life insurance etc whatsoever? Nothing, zero. All I have is a Thai Bank Account that I transfer small amounts too and use as needed. I use Insurance from my home country and all my investments are back home safe and secure. and you never think you are missing out on some great investment opportunities? How much rent did you pay the last 20 yrs? I don't live here full time, I come about 5 Months a year. I pay anything between 5,000 and 10,000 baht a Month in rent. Right now paying 5K. The investment opportunities in 1st world countries are far better than here and some of my investments are even government guaranteed. Why would anyone bother here with all of the crap that goes on. Looking back on what my friends did buying condos and me paying rent, I can assure you I am way out in front of them. Do not trust Thailand for investment, just my honest opinion and observations. Up to you what you want to do but I don't want any part of it particularly as rent is so cheap and you have the immediate get out factor too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superal Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Had the same thing happen to me. Two children.married 15 years. Trumped up some charges. Got me arrested and put in prison for nothing. Couldn't bail out because lawyers kept stealing the bail money. While she and her family stole and sold everything I owned. That's highly illegal in any country. But no arrests yet.... I am very sorry to hear about your appalling experience . Was there / is there any way that your embassy could have got involved . I can imagine being in the hands of some dodgy lawyers and trying to prove your innocence plus knowing that your personal possessions would probably be gone , must have been driving you crazy . Has there been any retributions or is the matter settled ? What would be your advice to any farang who intended to settle in Thailand . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldgit Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Post with ID removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert24 Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Most us know why the Thais get away with this and take precautions to never be in that situation in the first place.Never ever buy any property of any sort or make any investment in this country, this is the rules that I have made for myself for the last 20 years.. The people in this video could have avoided all this heartache if they just rented. What is it with farangs wanting to make companies and only having 49% control and allowing Thais having 51% control? Would they be crazy enough to do this in their home country? Or paying millions of baht for a lease that can be forged and lost? Trust a Thai wife and put the property in her name? Only if you are willing to lose the lot. Keep all your investments in your home country in your name, safe and sound. Just rent, anything goes wrong, grab you bags and get on the first flight out and nothing but some furniture might be lost. so if you haven't bought any property or other investments here the last 20 years? really? No stocks? No property? No life insurance etc whatsoever? Nothing, zero. All I have is a Thai Bank Account that I transfer small amounts too and use as needed. I use Insurance from my home country and all my investments are back home safe and secure. and you never think you are missing out on some great investment opportunities? How much rent did you pay the last 20 yrs? I don't live here full time, I come about 5 Months a year. I pay anything between 5,000 and 10,000 baht a Month in rent. Right now paying 5K. The investment opportunities in 1st world countries are far better than here and some of my investments are even government guaranteed. Why would anyone bother here with all of the crap that goes on. Looking back on what my friends did buying condos and me paying rent, I can assure you I am way out in front of them. Do not trust Thailand for investment, just my honest opinion and observations. Up to you what you want to do but I don't want any part of it particularly as rent is so cheap and you have the immediate get out factor too. fair enough. Everyone has their own priorities. Just saying if you stay here 5 months and say pay 7.5k rent per month (assuming you can rent only on a monthly basis and terminate/not renew after 5 months) you spend approx 38k on rent here p.a. So over 20 yrs this was approx 750k. And each time you come to Thailand you have to look for a new place to stay and can never really leave anything here, it's not like a second home or holiday home you have here. Hence why my view is if you bought a place for 750k 20 yrs ago, you would have had a really nice place, probably worth multi millions now and you would have had a holiday home/second home to stay, to come back to. But maybe you prefer flexibility, changing places and location etc. all I'm saying there are good reasons for both approaches. All depends on your priorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggusoil Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 In the circumstances this Guy has been a real Gentleman and i admire his calm and graceful attitude considering what he's lost and been through. Whilst such cases almost always hit the headlines at some stage and show all the very deep and disturbing tendencies of Thai society, it would be interesting to know what percentage of Expat's suffer in this way in comparison to those that experience good marriage's until their life expiry date comes around. Overall; i would expect such percentage to be on a par with what happens to many Men in their own country's, where whilst the laws are much stronger and Lawyer's much more honest, Men normally end up a lot worse off than their spouse's when things go wrong in the marriage. The difference is that the Wife has the blessing of the Western Courts when she walks away with the stash and there has been no corruption involved at any level. Yes and also in comparison with the west, at least on a marriage contract here, the assets are listed 50/ 50 on the contract and split 50/50. I've seen those splits enforced Not in Australia its more like 90 / 10 in the wife's favour. It is heavily biased for the wife. I remember one lady we knew, just waited for the husband to finish rennovating the house before she pulled the plug. Pure financial greed and backed by the courts. This was since a certain Attorney General Lionel Murphy and a certain State Premier, Neville Wran changed the whole family law system to favour the wives radically. If the assets get sold off by friends and corrupt lawyers, obviousl that is different however there is always discussion here as to whether there is more or less in Thailand than anywhere else. It is difficult to answer that equation, but there are worse places. Places where the law favours the man radically. The answer to that has to do with the nature of the people and individual circumstances. The Phuket Governor's replies were not encouraging on a bureaucratic level. How he could get away with that is nearly farcical. 40 to 50 court appearances is ridiculous. My ex-financial partner had never been to Asia but always quoted Soveriegn risk as a reason not to invest in Asia. That refers to the lack of control one has over one's assets in a foreign country. I've seen a certain City Council in Australia strip a man of his assets with technicalities, just because he was Russian, could not speak the language well enough to defend himself and could not afford a lawyer. Sometimes there ain't no justice nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geriatrickid Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Reason #842 never to buy property in Thailand. Unfortunately, there will always some cocky fool who believes he/she is "different". How many times does it have to be said that foreigners have limited legal rights and when push comes to shove, no legal protection when a commercial transaction goes bad.? The one piece of advice that every experienced expat, and I mean everyone, has given me since day 1 is to avoid investing unless one can walk away from the investment. Unless one is a mega investor or prepared to pay bribes, or engage in criminal activity like running a brothel bar in pattaya, there is no upside to investing in Thailand in the long run for most people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Strand Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Hu not learned his lesson. Look at his next wife, Thai as well. Sorry to say but he deserves it. Sorry for the 3 poor kids from his first marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgemandm Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 found girl same age as you guys and not from pattaya or bar !!!!!! Why would you say that you not happy a old man can get a young woman you will be old one day and then you can talk I bet you will not think like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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