Saga surrounding Kentucky clerk may not be over

[Lite Beer]

Saga surrounding Kentucky clerk may not be over
By ADAM BEAM

OWENSBORO, Ky. (AP) — Kim Davis is out of jail and on the job, but the saga surrounding the Kentucky county clerk who has refused to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples appears to be far from over.

In a court filing Friday, the attorney for one of Davis' employees said he believes Davis has again violated a federal court order by altering marriage license forms to remove her name and the name of the county. In a separate court filing on Friday, attorneys for the gay couples who sued Davis appear to agree and say they are "exploring legal options."

Davis spent five days in jail for refusing to obey a federal judge's ruling that she issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples to comply with a U.S. Supreme Court decision that effectively legalized gay marriage nationwide. Davis, an Apostolic Christian, believes same-sex marriage is a sin and cited "God's authority" in refusing to obey the ruling.

U.S. District Judge David Bunning released Davis from jail on the condition that she not interfere with her employees as they issue marriage licenses. When she returned to work, Davis altered the marriage forms by removing her name, making deputy clerk Brian Mason initial the form instead of sign it, and then requiring the form to be notarized.

"A notary has nothing to do with it," Mason's attorney, Richard Hughes, told The Associated Press on Friday after filing a status report with the judge. Hughes said it was "really bizarre" that Davis would alter the forms.

"Unless she's got a really good reason, and I'll certainly be patient and wait to hear it, the only inference I personally can draw from it is she is trying to circumvent the court's order," he said.

Bunning appointed attorneys for each of Davis' deputy clerks and asked them to file status reports every two weeks. The reports are not due until Tuesday, but Hughes filed his on Friday saying Davis' "changes were made in some attempt to circumvent the court's orders and may have raised to the level of interference against the court's orders."

"We'll see what Judge Bunning is going to do with it," Hughes said.

Also Friday, the attorneys for the American Civil Liberties Union said in a court filing that the changes on the form require Mason to issue the licenses "in his capacity as a 'notary public' rather than a deputy clerk of the Rowan County Clerk's Office," changes that "do not comply" with the court's order to not interfere with her employees who issue the licenses.

"These alterations call into question the validity of the marriage licenses issued," the attorneys wrote in a footnote to a motion asking the judge to certify the case as a class-action lawsuit. "Plaintiffs are exploring legal options to address these material alterations."

State law requires marriage licenses to be issued under the authority of the county clerk. Someone else, a minister or other officiant, then performs the ceremony and signs the license. The clerk then files the license with county records.

Davis has said that any license issued — with or without her name — is not valid unless she authorizes it. However, when she was released from jail she changed the marriage license forms to say they were being issued under the authority of the federal court. Davis' attorney said this new form, if OK with the judge, would solve the problem because gay couples would have a marriage license and Davis would have a clear conscience.

Kentucky's Democratic governor and attorney general have both said the licenses are valid and will be recognized by the state. Bunning, the federal judge, has said he does not know if the licenses are valid and it was up to the gay couples to take that chance.

Mason is the only employee in Davis' office who has said he does not object to issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples. Hughes said he agreed with his fellow deputy clerks to issue the licenses to "ease the stress of the situation." But Hughes noted the other clerks would issue the licenses if Mason were absent.

Mason has calmly and cheerfully issued marriage licenses in Rowan County, often amid a scrum of TV cameras and recorders documenting his every move. He has declined interview requests, and it is not clear what relationship he has with Davis. During her federal testimony, Davis described Mason as a "very loyal, very dedicated, very good employee."

"(Mason) says he has a good relationship with her," Hughes said. "It's been hard on all of them."

-- (c) Associated Press 2015-09-19

[Seastallion]

As I predicted. The woman is in contempt again. Throw her in gaol forthwith.

[khwaibah]

When are they going to tar and feather this B%^$% ?

[Equalizer]

I agree with her completely.

[elgordo38]

I agree with her completely.

Google the Randy Rainbow video and the post your answer.

[Jingthing]

If the licenses are 100 percent legal without question, there is no problem. If not. there is a problem. Sounds like there is a problem. If her actions are causing one class of people to get crappy challenge-able licenses, she is in violation, and yet again she has some choices: Quit or face the legal consequences of her outrageous bigoted actions.

[KhunG]

As I predicted. The woman is in contempt again. Throw her in gaol forthwith.

When are they going to tar and feather this B%^$% ?

KILL THE HERETICS! same story, different oppressors.

[Seastallion]

If the licenses are 100 percent legal without question, there is no problem. If not. there is a problem. Sounds like there is a problem. If her actions are causing one class of people to get crappy challenge-able licenses, she is in violation, and yet again she has some choices: Quit or face the legal consequences of her outrageous bigoted actions.

No, she is still trying to circumvent the law and the court order by removing her name, and at the same time admitting that "she has grave doubts about the legality of the licenses". It is contempt of court even if the licenses are, by circuitous legal argument, 100% legal.

[lovelomsak]

If this woman is doing a job that goes against her beliefs quit the job. The job should not change for the employee.

If an employer hires someone to kill chickens and comes in and finds the employee willnot kill the chickens it goes against his beliefs,is there any reason the employee should keep the job? She cannot be fired but she can quit and if she is a true believer of her stance that is exactly what she should do. She is like a little dictator no one can fire her so she can force her beliefs on others at will.

If I was the judge I would fine her complete salary until she either quits or does her job.

[wabothai]

She would be better off selling bibles from door to door.

[uksomchai]

As I predicted. The woman is in contempt again. Throw her in gaol forthwith.

When are they going to tar and feather this B%^$% ?

KILL THE HERETICS! same story, different oppressors.

Perfect examples of the respect and tolerance that is DEMANDED by the gay rights activists yet is never shown in return

[Jingthing]

So did a gay guy ever deny the bigot lady any one of HER multiple marriage licenses? Bottom line -- she has NO RIGHT to deny gay people marriage licenses. It is now the LAW OF THE LAND. She needs to do her job or take a hike. Period. End of story.

[bangkapi]

The problem I see is that the federal law struck down the state law. The governor and attorney general of Kentucky folded and did not stand up for the state law because federal law usually prevails.

The opposite has happened in states like Colorado where the state has legalized recreational marijuana which is against federal law. Yet the federal government isn't stupid enough to try to go in there and take the weed away.

Either way, the US federal government has forgotten that the people are the boss and has no respect for state sovereignty.

[Jingthing]

No, not the same thing.

Not about federal law.

About a SCOTUS ruling, which decides on constitutionality which automatically flows down to all states.

If SCOTUS rules pot was legal or illegal, then no state could do anything except what SCOTUS says.

SCOTUS has NOT ruled on this.

This case has NOTHING in common with Colorado pot laws.

[jerojero]

Of course she's trying to circumvent the court order! She's a religious zealot who thinks she's above the law (and a stupid idiot).

[Seastallion]

The problem I see is that the federal law struck down the state law. The governor and attorney general of Kentucky folded and did not stand up for the state law because federal law usually prevails.

The opposite has happened in states like Colorado where the state has legalized recreational marijuana which is against federal law. Yet the federal government isn't stupid enough to try to go in there and take the weed away.

Either way, the US federal government has forgotten that the people are the boss and has no respect for state sovereignty.

Apples and oranges.

One is about constitutional rights of equality, the other is about opinion on harm or otherwise to individuals, and has science as an argument (on both sides), not a religious entity.

[Publicus]

Four years ago Kim Davis knew that her mother who was the incumbent elected county clerk (27 years all told) was going to retire and that she, Davis, who was working in the office, was well placed to get the $80,000 tit job.

Kim Davis the town harlot suddenly got religion and got herself elected, keeping the office in the family. Davis has gone from harlot to holier than thou.

Davis could instead have been organising citizens such as herself to lobby the legislature and the governor to make the license document changes that would accommodate her absolutist religious beliefs. That would be the usual way to proceed, the normal protocol. But, no, Davis has to pronounce her hellfire of nullification and interposition to include defying SCOTUS and the Constitution.

There are 10,000 officials in the country that issue marriage licenses so this one is an unmitigated anarchist and loser who just can't quit being holier than thou. The judge needs to put her holiness in the bighouse again this time for a fixed term so she can't just walk out of the jailhouse at will with her next scheme.

[smotherb]

I agree with her completely.

Why? God and/or religion has absolutely nothing to do with these marriage licenses, they are civil law licenses. If God, and/or religion were so important; why is a civil license required? This woman is an elected official, elected to uphold the law in her office. The law has been stated and a Supreme Court ruling has declared it legal. If her religious conscience does not allow her to uphold the law, as she is sworn to do; she should resign.

[smotherb]

She would be better off selling bibles from door to door.

Anyone who wants a bible only has to contact the Gideon Society

[uksomchai]

So did a gay guy ever deny the bigot lady any one of HER multiple marriage licenses? Bottom line -- she has NO RIGHT to deny gay people marriage licenses. It is now the LAW OF THE LAND. She needs to do her job or take a hike. Period. End of story.

So nice to see that your that your tolerance and respect are up there with the rest. After all the law is the law isn't it ?

Opening an umbrella is still illegal today in America for fear of spooking a horse so make sure you report anyone doing so and get them slung into Smokey for their heinous crimes after all it the law !

Or how about this one It is illegal to sell peanuts in Lee County after sundown on Wednesday. I'm sure there are plenty breaking this law so go fill your boots, again its the law so they all deserve to get hard time for their crimes don't they ?

Or how about this beauty ? Putting salt on a railroad track may be punishable by death.

Oh think of the satisfaction you could get for reporting this felon for their crimes

Another one that should net a few hundred crims It is illegal to bike, roller-skate, skateboard, or inline skate in a commercially zoned area. Why Miami and California jails must be heaving with these law breakers ?

NO ?

When people persist on going out of their way to DEMAND their rights or to enforce the law they lose the upper hand for me

Some people here wont be happy till she is banged up doing 5 - 10 in a max. But hey she broke the law so thats it

Tolerance and respect is a two way street people something that a lot of folk forget

[Jingthing]

She can do what she likes for herself, open an umbrella for days, but what she does by not doing her job under the law is to actively BLOCK the basic civil rights of her fellow citizens. Her opponents don't want to see her in jail, that's a huge lie, her opponents want her to either do her job or leave her job. She can't get away with her active bigotry against others ... she can't win and she won't win and that's a GOOD thing.

Respect? For a destructive bigot?

Was I supposed to respect GEORGE WALLACE when he blocked the school door to keep black kids out of the school? Of course not.

Some claim she is like Rosa Parks.

What a horrible insult to Rosa Parks!

She is indeed the Rosa Parks of homophobia. Nice job, bigot lady. Respect? NEVER.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Jingthing

[h90]

I agree with her completely.

I agree with her as well on a private base. But she has to follow the law in her job or resign.

If I go in the supermarket and can't buy the pork and the beer because the cashier is Muslim, the next day I can buy the pork but not the beef because the Hindu is on duty and the day after I can't buy any meat milk and eggs because some radical vegan staff is on duty than it simply doesn't work.

She can marry them and rant at home or at some forum what godless perverts they are and try to find enough supporter to change the law. Or she can resign the job, that are the only 2 options.

[chuckd]

She actually broke no laws. The laws of Kentucky state that marriage shall be between a man and a woman.

The Supreme Court ruled that laws such as this are unconstitutional. thereby making void the Kentucky law restricting same sex marriages.

She was arrested for not following the orders of a Federal Judge, thereby being charged under a contempt of court violation.

The Supreme Court cannot and did not make a new law.

[Jingthing]

As I've said before personally I think U.S. gun laws are too lax.

But if I took a government job dealing with guns, I would need to follow the law as it is, regardless of my personal opinions.

There would be no tolerance for me to do differently, as there should be no tolerance for the discriminatory behavior on the job of bigot lady.

[Jingthing]

She actually broke no laws. The laws of Kentucky state that marriage shall be between a man and a woman.

The Supreme Court ruled that laws such as this are unconstitutional. thereby making void the Kentucky law restricting same sex marriages.

She was arrested for not following the orders of a Federal Judge, thereby being charged under a contempt of court violation.

The Supreme Court cannot and did not make a new law.

This is exactly what happened when SCOTUS made it unconstitutional to ban interracial marriages.

Some states had the bigoted laws about that on their books.

It made NO difference at all!

Instantly they were not legally allowed to follow their own state law, the SCOTUS ruling overruled that instantly.

This is exactly the same situation. Face this loss and move on. You lost. No amount of weaselly arguments will save the anti-marriage equality agenda. It's finished. Marriage equality won NATIONALLY. All we've got now is futile and bigoted BACKLASH.

It's no problem at all having personal anti-gay marriage opinions / religious based beliefs, but it is a problem if your SECULAR GOVERNMENT job is to issue marriage licenses to deny the basic civil rights of your fellow citizens as ruled by SCOTUS.

Those advocating for allowing this discrimination in light of the SCOTUS ruling have basically no chance of succeeding.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Jingthing

[chuckd]

Either I wasn't clear or you didn't understand. No worry.

Every time I am stupid enough to make a seemingly innocuous post on one of these threads it goes pear shaped.

I will sign off this overly emotional thread with only this one question.

Can somebody tell me which specific LAW, not judicial decision, was broken by Ms. Davis?

[Jingthing]

That's just too disingenuous.

Nobody said the SCOTUS ruling changed the wording of Kentucky law.

It didn't need to!

SCOTUS ruling means same sex couples MUST (not a choice ... MUST) be granted government based marriage licenses in all 50 states if they are otherwise eligible for the licenses. Under SCOTUS it is no longer OK to ban them based on the couple being of the same sex.

It's not complicated.

[stevenl]

Either I wasn't clear or you didn't understand. No worry.

Every time I am stupid enough to make a seemingly innocuous post on one of these threads it goes pear shaped.

I will sign off this overly emotional thread with only this one question.

Can somebody tell me which specific LAW, not judicial decision, was broken by Ms. Davis?

14th amendment to US constitution.

[Jingthing]

For Americans who don't accept the basic structure of the U.S. law that SCOTUS rulings supersede all other laws in regard to constitutionality, your option now is to lobby for a constitutional AMENDMENT to change this basic structure. Good luck with that!

[smotherb]

She can do what she likes for herself, open an umbrella for days, but what she does by not doing her job under the law is to actively BLOCK the basic civil rights of her fellow citizens. Her opponents don't want to see her in jail, that's a huge lie, her opponents want her to either do her job or leave her job. She can't get away with her active bigotry against others ... she can't win and she won't win and that's a GOOD thing.

Respect? For a destructive bigot?

Was I supposed to respect GEORGE WALLACE when he blocked the school door to keep black kids out of the school? Of course not.

Some claim she is like Rosa Parks.

What a horrible insult to Rosa Parks!

She is indeed the Rosa Parks of homophobia. Nice job, bigot lady. Respect? NEVER.

She may want to be impeached. The problem is, the impeachment body--the Kentucky legislature--may be full of like-minded bible thumpers.