Thaksin tells Thailand's red shirt opposition - 'play dead'... for now

[NovaBlue05]

Thaksin will never steer clear of politics- living in the sand dunes with no one caring who he is apart from the occasional camel must be very dull compared to his life in Thailand, surrounded by adoring masses, beautiful bimbo singers and businessmen hopeful for a cut of the budget.

He has to tell the red shirts to keep quiet now because it won't do him any good if they protest- Prayud will simply take the minion leaders into custody, they have to wait for an election to prove they are the democratic majority of Thailand and hence have legitimacy.

But it's 2 years away, and who knows what will happen by then?

Probably another 2 year extension. I doubt Thaksin feels too alone and ignored as he seems to have the current junta thinking about him 24/7

the junta can't ignore him because 'Thaksin thinks, Pheua Thai does', he orders, they do, because the minions are beholden to his money and charisma amongst the masses. Now he'tells' the red shirts to play dead. Thaksin tells, Thaksin orders and no red shirt,'true democracy', leader or supporter dare go against one of the most corrupt,venal and arrogant Thais to have been born.

Interesting story...thanks!

[tbthailand]

Several members have mentioned that the bulk of the rice subsidy money did not reach the farmers, but was diverted by rices mills, middle men, and corruption.

I'm not disputing this. I think it is as likely as any other explanation for that part of the loss that was not due to the difference between the price paid, and the market price (which was a substantial part of the loss).

However, has anyone seen an accounting of this reported in the press? Something that shows total outlays, less market pricing losses, less customary milling and storage fees, less payments to farmers = waste/fraud

I haven't seen this sort of accounting. Instead, there is a total figure bandied about (600 billion baht or so), with inadequate justification for the figure. NACC and the Finance Ministry are using the figure...but oddly they never reveal their calculations...and vague reference is made to committees going over this stuff.

Do you guys have much faith in the "committees"?

I don't think "diverted" is the right word.

The rice programs are designed to pay the millers, storage, etc, too. The program was always structured to provide funding for the logistical infrastructure in addition to the payments to farmers.

[tbthailand]

"play dead"

Another stupid strategy by Thaksin. The UDD needs to tell him to stuff it up his a$$

If people want to have any chance at a democratic constitution, they need to stand up now. Period.

[Yann55]

Thaksin will never steer clear of politics- living in the sand dunes with no one caring who he is apart from the occasional camel must be very dull compared to his life in Thailand, surrounded by adoring masses, beautiful bimbo singers and businessmen hopeful for a cut of the budget.

He has to tell the red shirts to keep quiet now because it won't do him any good if they protest- Prayud will simply take the minion leaders into custody, they have to wait for an election to prove they are the democratic majority of Thailand and hence have legitimacy.

But it's 2 years away, and who knows what will happen by then?

That phrase of yours I underline in red strikes me as a notion which remarkably summarizes politics and politicians in a nutshell. He (Mr T.) tells them to keep quiet because it won't do him any good.

It's all too often forgotten that politicians, being only human, serve themselves first and foremost. Sometimes it coincides with the needs of their country, sometimes not. Some politicians are more self-serving than others, but I have yet to be convinced that there existed, somewhere, somehow, one politician who systematically put his country's interest ahead of his/hers. If such people existed, the world would not be such a disastrous mess.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Yann55

[sendintheclowns]

What's depressing is that if we wait for the next election, and a Thaskin proxy government gains power, we'll see more of this corruption, ripping off poor farmers by the new elite, the Robin U Blind Party, robbing the poor and giving it to the Red Shirt elite.

The following example shows that the Yingluck govt. was up to the same tricks as when Thaksin was in power: GSSG Import & Export Corp, a China-based trading firm, may have acted as a front for a Thai rice exporter. .GSSG is represented in Thailand by Ratthanit Sojiratkul.

He is an assistant to Pheu Thai-list MP Rapipan Pongruangrong, wife of Arisman Pongruangrong, a leader of the red-shirt United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship.

Mr Ratthanit reportedly appointed Nimol Rakdee as his representative to seek the release of 5,000 tonnes of broken rice from rice pledging stocks stored in a warehouse in Phichit's Bang Mun Nak district, claiming it was destined for export to China.

Mr Nimol has close connections with executives of Siam Indica Co, an associated firm of President Agri Trading Co.

President Agri Trading was the country's biggest rice exporter during the Thaksin Shinawatra administration before it ran into financial trouble and faced accusations of fraud and embezzlement of over 30,000 tonnes of rice in 2007.

Mr Nimol was the same person implicated by the National Anti-Corruption Commission in alleged rice sale irregularities during Thaksin's tenure.

If the Chinese firm was used as a front for the Thai company, the Thai exporter would make 3,000 baht per tonne through the government's rice pledging scheme.

(Source: http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politics/323208/dems-say-china-firm-used-as-rice-sale-proxy scheme. It's a pity to see Yingluck delay again and again, the whole investigation proceedings. And why are the millers/ exports not being indicted. .

[hawker9000]

Thaksin will never steer clear of politics- living in the sand dunes with no one caring who he is apart from the occasional camel must be very dull compared to his life in Thailand, surrounded by adoring masses, beautiful bimbo singers and businessmen hopeful for a cut of the budget.

He has to tell the red shirts to keep quiet now because it won't do him any good if they protest- Prayud will simply take the minion leaders into custody, they have to wait for an election to prove they are the democratic majority of Thailand and hence have legitimacy.

But it's 2 years away, and who knows what will happen by then?

That phrase of yours I underline in red strikes me as a notion which remarkably summarizes politics and politicians in a nutshell. He (Mr T.) tells them to keep quiet because it won't do him any good.

It's all too often forgotten that politicians, being only human, serve themselves first and foremost. Sometimes it coincides with the needs of their country, sometimes not. Some politicians are more self-serving than others, but I have yet to be convinced that there existed, somewhere, somehow, one politician who systematically put his country's interest ahead of his/hers. If such people existed, the world would not be such a disastrous mess.

Absolutely true. However, that doesn't mean one is just the same as another. Some politicians are in a position, by virtue of their wealth or connections or manipulativeness or ruthlessness or just plain brutality, to "serve themselves" better than others... So it's always a question of choosing the least of the evils. And some forms of government play out more rope to politicians than others as well...

See, the thing is, people with their pet personal agendas care much more about them than they do this risk of politics and politicians. So, in a way, the voting public are just as bad as the pols when it comes to the "national interest". Everyone cares nothing about the welfare of their nation, and everything about their pet social cause, their "entitlements", and what government can do for THEM, and so are willing to hand over more & more power to government, naively thinking they'll get their way via the "big hammer". No awareness at all of the accumulating loss of personal liberty and freedom of choice and the undermining of their constitutional safeguards that is the price for their shortsightedness. THAT'S the REAL reason the world is in such a disastrous mess! The Age of Social Awareness has devolved into an Ice Age of What-I'm-Entitled-To and What-I-Think-Best-For-Everyone-Else. A perfect storm. Politicians want the power; naïve, johnny-one-note voters stand in line to hand it over.

[animatic]

"Thaksin, who lives abroad to avoid a jail sentence for graft, was ousted in a coup in 2006,"

No he wasn't.

Quite right you are.

Now, could someone on this Forum explain why most Western journalists and politicians seem to earnestly believe that Thaksin was ousted in a coup and then flew the country for fear of becoming a political prisoner ? How and when did such a complete and outrageous lie become truth for so many people in the West (and even some here too, apparently) ?

The fact that Thaksin was (is?) a media tycoon surely must have something to do with it. If you want to control information, buy the media, right ? And once you understand how information works, how easily people can be manipulated into believing just about anything, then use it and lie until you're blue in the face.

Because he paid a lot of money to international level spin doctors,

also known as Perception Management PR specialists

to tell the story repatedly as he wished it to be seen.

In some cases the same ones who spun the notorious Russian oil oligarch's story.

A professionally produced international message was put out,

by people with far better PR skills than the typical Thailand Government functionaries.

There was a well funded effort to turn the story in Thaksin's favor

from the week after he was told stop pretending to be PM.

The fact that he was NO LONGER the PM in 2006

except by his unilaterally taking back of the ACTING PM chair

without getting royal confirmation of a second ACTING PM term,

is completely glossed over in the legend he has spun.

The international press bought the story at the time,

not having paid much attention during the botched 2006 election,

and it lingers in their back files as if it were the truth,

and gets trotted out each time a back story is needed on Thailand elections.

It makes no difference that it is not the truth because it has taken over,

as intended, as Thaksins message top the world. National intelligence groups,

will no doubt know the truth and act accordingly, but the press just recycles what it has in the back files.

The other part of a Perception Management manipulation is Boots On The Ground.

get your enemy to 'appear' to do some thing despicable, and pump that faux story up big.

Appear is the operative word, and that appearance can linger in the back files too,

no matter it was a ginned up story, that is hard to disprove.

How do you disprove something that never existed?

But his boots on the ground have not been as effective as he would have liked

particularly the last rigged riots and attempts to blacken his enemies names,

and he is not back in control because it, yet again did not go as planned.

Edited September 22, 2015 by animatic

[Artisi]

"play dead"

Another stupid strategy by Thaksin. The UDD needs to tell him to stuff it up his <deleted>

If people want to have any chance at a democratic constitution, they need to stand up now. Period.

The whole country would be far better off if Thaksin WAS dead - not playing dead.

[Wombat6]

"From self-imposed exile, the influential leader of Thailand's rural "red shirt" opposition movement has delivered a simple message to followers chafing at the military junta's iron rule: lay low for now, don't panic, "play dead".

He's not in self imposed exile. He's a fugitive criminal fleeing justice for his crimes.

When will the current administration decide it's time to flee?

Probably when you decide to give up reading Comics

[Wombat6]

"Wait for the next election" so is there a problem with that? isn't that the way to make change? isn't that the way to rid a nation of a government that is not doing a good job at governance? The problem is that some don't like the idea of elections or equal voting rights and therefor this creates divisions.

Elections work in most places on Earth except Thailand. Thailand would need to change their system drastically.....ie A pm voted in by the public...not the Party leader. All politicians to be elected by the public (Not just 300 of the 500 seats)( current system is open to cronyism appointments )

[Wombat6]

Bla bla bla, Hardcore Thaksinistas doing everything the man in Dubai orders, NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES they get screwed over aka brainwashed again and again and again, they'd STILL follow him 4ever.

For these people that believe in Ghosts, Fortune tellers Nagas, Three legged pigs being good luck etc. etc....they would believe anything they were told and not give much thought to it

[Wombat6]

Wow, any headline with Thaksin is like a red rag to the TV frothers!

Thing that really irks them is that they know what he said is true; when finally an election is permitted the people will simply reiterate the same message. We want Thaksin!

Some people. A minority of the population and electorate.

But enough to put his party into power

Why waste your time speculating ?? Go and play with the lady at the end of the Bar.

[Wombat6]

Wow, any headline with Thaksin is like a red rag to the TV frothers!

Thing that really irks them is that they know what he said is true; when finally an election is permitted the people will simply reiterate the same message. We want Thaksin!

Some people. A minority of the population and electorate.

Actually, it is the majority of the electorate who have voted the PTP into power in every election for the last 9 years. No amount of nitpicking will alter that fact.

I suppose if you keep telling yourself enough, you will believe it......by the way, in case you missed it, just before Yinglucks Government was kicked out, a poll was taken on this subject with the result indicating a sound defeat of the "redshirts" if an election was held

[Wombat6]

"Thaksin, who lives abroad to avoid a jail sentence for graft, was ousted in a coup in 2006,"

No he wasn't.

Not direct but in fact yes. His placeholders were ousted 2006 and 2014. It was always him in power.

There was no govt in place when the 2006 coup occurred.

There was no govt because the previous election was riddled with corrupt election practices.

thaksin was not pm.

No one was.

Wow sounds like you really hate the guy ! What did he do to you for so much hatred !

I would suggest he hasn't been living under a rock which is where you obviously have been spending your time

[candide]

Wow, any headline with Thaksin is like a red rag to the TV frothers!

Thing that really irks them is that they know what he said is true; when finally an election is permitted the people will simply reiterate the same message. We want Thaksin!

Some people. A minority of the population and electorate.

Actually, it is the majority of the electorate who have voted the PTP into power in every election for the last 9 years. No amount of nitpicking will alter that fact.

I suppose if you keep telling yourself enough, you will believe it......by the way, in case you missed it, just before Yinglucks Government was kicked out, a poll was taken on this subject with the result indicating a sound defeat of the "redshirts" if an election was held

The opposition to YL government made a coup because they were about to win elections... Sounds like a nice fairytale!

[Wombat6]

Bla bla bla, Hardcore Thaksinistas doing everything the man in Dubai orders, NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES they get screwed over aka brainwashed again and again and again, they'd STILL follow him 4ever.

If you read the entire article, you may perhaps understand why they follow him 4 ever. Quote " compare to the Shin clan, Prayuth has done nothing for the farmers".

If you consider that Prayuth hasn't ripped off the Farmers to enrich himself/family or set up community loans schemes (You don't get a loan if you don't vote for us) or go out and kill some kids or go out and stop any opponents from standing for elections by intimidation or kill if needed or Brainwash by illegal radio Stations etc. etc., then you may be right......time to accept the real facts Mr. Loh

[MZurf]

Wow, any headline with Thaksin is like a red rag to the TV frothers!

Thing that really irks them is that they know what he said is true; when finally an election is permitted the people will simply reiterate the same message. We want Thaksin!

Some people. A minority of the population and electorate.

Actually, it is the majority of the electorate who have voted the PTP into power in every election for the last 9 years. No amount of nitpicking will alter that fact.

I suppose if you keep telling yourself enough, you will believe it......by the way, in case you missed it, just before Yinglucks Government was kicked out, a poll was taken on this subject with the result indicating a sound defeat of the "redshirts" if an election was held

I guess that was a Dusit poll, right? Very credible. If that was even close to the truth then why did the dems/Suthep/army block the election?

[Farangdanny]

The government is working as hard as they can to prevent another Thaksin landslide.....however you have to question the effectiveness of policies such as reducing subsidies and aid and imprisoning or charging political activists.....in most cases this usually just makes the opposition in any country more militant....it also makes the creation of a democratic system less and less likely......... but then we are foreigners and know nothing of Thailand - presumably by the same logic they know nothing about us...i.e. democracy etc....???

I think that this is not a democracy. In a real democracy, if you are NOT HAPPY WITH THE GOVERNMENT, you wait for next election and vote for different one. Here, if the certain people are not happy with the ELECTION RESULT, (change of words deliberate ), they ask 'others' to change it, without waiting for another election. Been that way for many, many years. I am trying to use diplomatic words on purpose.

[elviajero]

Some people. A minority of the population and electorate.

Actually, it is the majority of the electorate who have voted the PTP into power in every election for the last 9 years. No amount of nitpicking will alter that fact.

I suppose if you keep telling yourself enough, you will believe it......by the way, in case you missed it, just before Yinglucks Government was kicked out, a poll was taken on this subject with the result indicating a sound defeat of the "redshirts" if an election was held

I guess that was a Dusit poll, right? Very credible. If that was even close to the truth then why did the dems/Suthep/army block the election?

No poll needed. They'd let down many of their core support over the rice debacle and YS's honeymoon period was well and truly over. They only just crawled over the line in 2011 with a 16 seat majority with the promise of a 40% pay rise and the poster girl so IMO there is no way they would achieved a majority in 2014.

[rubl]

Several members have mentioned that the bulk of the rice subsidy money did not reach the farmers, but was diverted by rices mills, middle men, and corruption.

I'm not disputing this. I think it is as likely as any other explanation for that part of the loss that was not due to the difference between the price paid, and the market price (which was a substantial part of the loss).

However, has anyone seen an accounting of this reported in the press? Something that shows total outlays, less market pricing losses, less customary milling and storage fees, less payments to farmers = waste/fraud

I haven't seen this sort of accounting. Instead, there is a total figure bandied about (600 billion baht or so), with inadequate justification for the figure. NACC and the Finance Ministry are using the figure...but oddly they never reveal their calculations...and vague reference is made to committees going over this stuff.

Do you guys have much faith in the "committees"?

I don't think "diverted" is the right word.

The rice programs are designed to pay the millers, storage, etc, too. The program was always structured to provide funding for the logistical infrastructure in addition to the payments to farmers.

Actually the 'self-financing' RPPS (which wasn't a subsidy') was supposed to help poor farmers, not millers, warehouse owners and the like. Of course the scam also included the necessary payments for such facilities as between buying from farmers to selling to others some work was required. Still even with that 'overhead' the RPPS was supposed to make enough money to be 'self-financing'.

When poor farmers are still poor, when at least 500 billion Baht is lost, somehow the 'self-financing' scam only succeeded in diverting money, 500,000,000,000 Baht of it.

[MZurf]

Actually, it is the majority of the electorate who have voted the PTP into power in every election for the last 9 years. No amount of nitpicking will alter that fact.

I suppose if you keep telling yourself enough, you will believe it......by the way, in case you missed it, just before Yinglucks Government was kicked out, a poll was taken on this subject with the result indicating a sound defeat of the "redshirts" if an election was held

I guess that was a Dusit poll, right? Very credible. If that was even close to the truth then why did the dems/Suthep/army block the election?

No poll needed. They'd let down many of their core support over the rice debacle and YS's honeymoon period was well and truly over. They only just crawled over the line in 2011 with a 16 seat majority with the promise of a 40% pay rise and the poster girl so IMO there is no way they would achieved a majority in 2014.

"No poll needed"

It is you who claim that a poll was done showing the PTP would have lost, and now you say a poll is not needed! Are you drunk or just a troll?

"..so IMO there is no way they would achieved a majority in 2014."

I guess we now know where you get your information - "IMO".

Besides, you're (unsurprisingly) sidestepping the one indisputable fact that kills your theory, namely that the dems/Suthep/army blocked the election.

Edited September 22, 2015 by MZurf

[elviajero]

I suppose if you keep telling yourself enough, you will believe it......by the way, in case you missed it, just before Yinglucks Government was kicked out, a poll was taken on this subject with the result indicating a sound defeat of the "redshirts" if an election was held

I guess that was a Dusit poll, right? Very credible. If that was even close to the truth then why did the dems/Suthep/army block the election?

No poll needed. They'd let down many of their core support over the rice debacle and YS's honeymoon period was well and truly over. They only just crawled over the line in 2011 with a 16 seat majority with the promise of a 40% pay rise and the poster girl so IMO there is no way they would achieved a majority in 2014.

"No poll needed"

It is you who claim that a poll was done showing the PTP would have lost, and now you say a poll is not needed! Are you drunk or just a troll?

"..so IMO there is no way they would achieved a majority in 2014."

I guess we now know where you get your information - "IMO".

Besides, you're (unsurprisingly) sidestepping the one indisputable fact that kills your theory, namely that the dems/Suthep/army blocked the election.

Not needed because anyone that knows anything about Thai politics knows that the PTP were on their knees. And if you understand anything about a parliamentary system you'd know that a 16 seat majority means a weak government. As they achieved that majority when popular with their supporters it doesn't take a genius to work out, poll or not, that having let their support base down that they would likely win less seats and probably fail to win a majority and the election. IMO it would have been a hung parliament.

[MZurf]

I guess that was a Dusit poll, right? Very credible. If that was even close to the truth then why did the dems/Suthep/army block the election?

No poll needed. They'd let down many of their core support over the rice debacle and YS's honeymoon period was well and truly over. They only just crawled over the line in 2011 with a 16 seat majority with the promise of a 40% pay rise and the poster girl so IMO there is no way they would achieved a majority in 2014.

"No poll needed"

It is you who claim that a poll was done showing the PTP would have lost, and now you say a poll is not needed! Are you drunk or just a troll?

"..so IMO there is no way they would achieved a majority in 2014."

I guess we now know where you get your information - "IMO".

Besides, you're (unsurprisingly) sidestepping the one indisputable fact that kills your theory, namely that the dems/Suthep/army blocked the election.

Not needed because anyone that knows anything about Thai politics knows that the PTP were on their knees. And if you understand anything about a parliamentary system you'd know that a 16 seat majority means a weak government. As they achieved that majority when popular with their supporters it doesn't take a genius to work out, poll or not, that having let their support base down that they would likely win less seats and probably fail to win a majority and the election. IMO it would have been a hung parliament.

You're sidestepping like Fred Astaire.

Again,

1. Where is the link to the poll you referred to?

2. Do you dispute the fact that kills your theory, namely that the dems/Suthep/army blocked the election?

[elviajero]

"No poll needed"

It is you who claim that a poll was done showing the PTP would have lost, and now you say a poll is not needed! Are you drunk or just a troll?

"..so IMO there is no way they would achieved a majority in 2014."

I guess we now know where you get your information - "IMO".

Besides, you're (unsurprisingly) sidestepping the one indisputable fact that kills your theory, namely that the dems/Suthep/army blocked the election.

Not needed because anyone that knows anything about Thai politics knows that the PTP were on their knees. And if you understand anything about a parliamentary system you'd know that a 16 seat majority means a weak government. As they achieved that majority when popular with their supporters it doesn't take a genius to work out, poll or not, that having let their support base down that they would likely win less seats and probably fail to win a majority and the election. IMO it would have been a hung parliament.

You're sidestepping like Fred Astaire.

Again,

1. Where is the link to the poll you referred to?

2. Do you dispute the fact that kills your theory, namely that the dems/Suthep/army blocked the election?

1. I didn't refer to any poll. Again. I said a poll isn't needed, by anyone that understands the political climate prior to the 2014 election, to form an opinion as to the outcome.

2. If you want my opinion. It was blocked by the aforementioned because they wanted to stop the PTP regaining power because, even though I doubt they'd have won a majority to form a government, they had enough coalition partners in their pocket to keep power and continue poor governance at the expense of the country and democracy.

[German Viking]

Nobody can deny that the rice policy was vote buying. The farmers are saying we will vote for anyone who will give us an above market price for our goods. Sad actually that the working and middle class have to pay for the farmers who are just not economical.

Of course it was a nod to the poor farmers. That's what all politicians do of whatever colour.

You are wrong that they will vote for whoever gives them handouts. The dems tried and lost and the army is trying now but will never be popular with the voters,

I don't think it sad that some taxpayers money is being given to the poor. It is what all democratic govs do and indeed is a must in humanitarian societies. The USA and EU massively subsidise their uneconomical farmers so why criticise Thailand for doing the same. It makes good sense.

Im against the EU subsidies too, so its a principle for me. I don't see why things that won't work should be subsidized. If people are helped that have little money it should not be exclusively farmers but just people who qualify. Now its just vote buying and if you read the article they will vote for anyone who promises them higher prices.

I bet you that if the PTP does not offer an farmers incentive but the democrats do they won't vote PTP.

Some subsidies make sense, because you want to have small farmers and not only huge agrarian factories and you want a mix of products. Not like Netherland makes all the milk and has no pork production and Poland produces only pork, Italy only wine.

That is the theoretic thing. Practical the subsidies are without much target. I would actually only subsidies organic food, I can't find any reason why food loaded with chemicals should be subsidies. (Well beside if I need the votes from the farmers)

And not 1 of these bloody product in a big factories are sober.

[German Viking]

Nobody can deny that the rice policy was vote buying. The farmers are saying we will vote for anyone who will give us an above market price for our goods. Sad actually that the working and middle class have to pay for the farmers who are just not economical.

Of course it was a nod to the poor farmers. That's what all politicians do of whatever colour.

You are wrong that they will vote for whoever gives them handouts. The dems tried and lost and the army is trying now but will never be popular with the voters,

I don't think it sad that some taxpayers money is being given to the poor. It is what all democratic govs do and indeed is a must in humanitarian societies. The USA and EU massively subsidise their uneconomical farmers so why criticise Thailand for doing the same. It makes good sense.

It's also wrong in Europe and USA to subvent the farmers, caused mostly only the big ones are subvented who produce shit food. The problems are the customers who believe all the advertisments of the foodchains, and buy in supermarkets, better buy on local markets sober food.

[German Viking]

Nobody can deny that the rice policy was vote buying. The farmers are saying we will vote for anyone who will give us an above market price for our goods. Sad actually that the working and middle class have to pay for the farmers who are just not economical.

Of course it was a nod to the poor farmers. That's what all politicians do of whatever colour.

You are wrong that they will vote for whoever gives them handouts. The dems tried and lost and the army is trying now but will never be popular with the voters,

I don't think it sad that some taxpayers money is being given to the poor. It is what all democratic govs do and indeed is a must in humanitarian societies. The USA and EU massively subsidise their uneconomical farmers so why criticise Thailand for doing the same. It makes good sense.

Im against the EU subsidies too, so its a principle for me. I don't see why things that won't work should be subsidized. If people are helped that have little money it should not be exclusively farmers but just people who qualify. Now its just vote buying and if you read the article they will vote for anyone who promises them higher prices.

I bet you that if the PTP does not offer an farmers incentive but the democrats do they won't vote PTP.

Some subsidies make sense, because you want to have small farmers and not only huge agrarian factories and you want a mix of products. Not like Netherland makes all the milk and has no pork production and Poland produces only pork, Italy only wine.

That is the theoretic thing. Practical the subsidies are without much target. I would actually only subsidies organic food, I can't find any reason why food loaded with chemicals should be subsidies. (Well beside if I need the votes from the farmers)

There is a simple answer, caused all these bastards who selling all the chemicals, buying the politicians all over the world and the politicians closing both eyes.

[German Viking]

Im against the EU subsidies too, so its a principle for me. I don't see why things that won't work should be subsidized. If people are helped that have little money it should not be exclusively farmers but just people who qualify. Now its just vote buying and if you read the article they will vote for anyone who promises them higher prices.

I bet you that if the PTP does not offer an farmers incentive but the democrats do they won't vote PTP.

Some subsidies make sense, because you want to have small farmers and not only huge agrarian factories and you want a mix of products. Not like Netherland makes all the milk and has no pork production and Poland produces only pork, Italy only wine.

That is the theoretic thing. Practical the subsidies are without much target. I would actually only subsidies organic food, I can't find any reason why food loaded with chemicals should be subsidies. (Well beside if I need the votes from the farmers)

Not sure that I agree there, countries should do what they do best. If that is milk in the Netherlands then so be it. It has its risks of course and diversity helps but in the end its the consumer / tax payer who pays for it. I would say go large. The disadvantage is of course when one party controls the whole market (so some rules are in place against such things happening)

But here we have small farmers who are never turning a profit always complaining, in such a situation you need change not supporting it without change.

As long the farmers don't understand, that all these artificials fertilizers, pesticides and insecticides and funghicides, costs a lot of money, they finance this with credits and these making them dependend from the banks and the bastards behind. Instead to produce less, but sober high quality probably for better

[hawker9000]

"Wait for the next election" so is there a problem with that? isn't that the way to make change? isn't that the way to rid a nation of a government that is not doing a good job at governance? The problem is that some don't like the idea of elections or equal voting rights and therefor this creates divisions.

Elections work in most places on Earth except Thailand. Thailand would need to change their system drastically.....ie A pm voted in by the public...not the Party leader. All politicians to be elected by the public (Not just 300 of the 500 seats)( current system is open to cronyism appointments )

Oh yes, Thailand should definitely be singled out in this respect. I particularly like the way elections work in places like, oh, say, N. Korea, PRC (the largest population on Earth!), Iran, Cuba ... And as for publicly elected PMs - isn't parliamentary vote, hence by the Party - not the means by which PMs are chose in all parliamentary democracies? Possibly, "most places on Earth"?

You can argue the pros & cons, and they do exist, but if your point is that Thailand's big problem is that the PM is parliamentarily, rather than publicly, chosen, I disagree. That's just not the problem at all. Not all, but certainly many of the world's most stable democracies operate that way. And cronyism exists everywhere, no less in authoritarian governments than in open ones. Thailand's issues are much more fundamental and much more socially and culturally driven, and much less technical.

[tbthailand]

Several members have mentioned that the bulk of the rice subsidy money did not reach the farmers, but was diverted by rices mills, middle men, and corruption.

I'm not disputing this. I think it is as likely as any other explanation for that part of the loss that was not due to the difference between the price paid, and the market price (which was a substantial part of the loss).

However, has anyone seen an accounting of this reported in the press? Something that shows total outlays, less market pricing losses, less customary milling and storage fees, less payments to farmers = waste/fraud

I haven't seen this sort of accounting. Instead, there is a total figure bandied about (600 billion baht or so), with inadequate justification for the figure. NACC and the Finance Ministry are using the figure...but oddly they never reveal their calculations...and vague reference is made to committees going over this stuff.

Do you guys have much faith in the "committees"?

I don't think "diverted" is the right word.

The rice programs are designed to pay the millers, storage, etc, too. The program was always structured to provide funding for the logistical infrastructure in addition to the payments to farmers.

Actually the 'self-financing' RPPS (which wasn't a subsidy') was supposed to help poor farmers, not millers, warehouse owners and the like. Of course the scam also included the necessary payments for such facilities as between buying from farmers to selling to others some work was required. Still even with that 'overhead' the RPPS was supposed to make enough money to be 'self-financing'.

When poor farmers are still poor, when at least 500 billion Baht is lost, somehow the 'self-financing' scam only succeeded in diverting money, 500,000,000,000 Baht of it.

believe your own (rewritten) history books?

links to support your positions or just stop posting this same nonsense again and again and again...