Forensic team to testify in Koh Tao murder trial

[smedly]

The thing with expert witnesses whether for gait or otherwise appearing in support of the defense or prosecution is that you do not know how many such experts were contacted until one was found that gives the results that supports the desired case.

forgetting about Gait for a moment, both pre and post footage of B2 shows them both wearing wrist bands, running man is not wearing anything apart from a pair of shorts that look far too big for him and seen clearly in the poor images - NOT wearing wrist bands

Edited September 24, 2015 by smedly

[Fat Haggis]

It was also the RTP that stated Hannah had been raped, it's also in the alleged confession so is AleG now questioning if a rape took place because the defence are asking the same thing? He's full of contradictions!!

[FangFerang]

Following this story has alternately been like watching the Keystone Cops, Benny Hill on an off day episode, and the Three Stooges.

Oh, I forgot, throw in a dash of the movie Johnny Dangerously.

[StealthEnergiser]

Another Facebook site but due to forum rules we cannot post from has a couple small bits about Gait Analysis some people may find interesting. CSILA

[smedly]

Following this story has alternately been like watching the Keystone Cops, Benny Hill on an off day episode, and the Three Stooges.

Oh, I forgot, throw in a dash of the movie Johnny Dangerously.

more like "police squad"

[thailandchilli]

Another Facebook site but due to forum rules we cannot post from has a couple small bits about Gait Analysis some people may find interesting. CSILA

I wonder if our resident expert has watched it?

[boomerangutang]

Has there yet been a pathology report by Brit experts re; David? I want to know how wrong the Thai forensic findings were. Just partially wrong as they;ve been in prior assessments, or grossly wrong. If it;s shown that Thai forensics grossly misdiagnosed David;s wounds and murder weapon used (claiming blunt hoe instead of small sharp weapon, like a shark tooth ring), then it will add yet more indications of covering up for the real perps - who used to wear weaponized rings - up until the day after the murders, of course.

[partington]

It seems to me the defence have been on the back foot for weeks. There are only 3 days left, and any time during that three days that is not devoted to discussion, cross-examination and validation of the DNA evidence is utterly wasted time, that possibly leaves the accused open to a clear guilty verdict.

I simply don't understand what they are doing giving hours of evidence on working conditions of the Burmese, and video evidence that isn't even accepted in western courts as being anything but subjective and questionable, like "gait-analysis".

I wonder if they are competent, or merely just at the mercy of delaying tactics? But again, why didn't they make requests for the actual DNA report the absolutely central part of their case from day 1? Are they really going to wait until the time assigned to the case has run out and then say, we couldn't get the report, so we couldn't cross-examine?

In parenthesis it is very hard to think of any rational, unsuspicious reason, why, in a case being watched all over the world, the police will not give the defence any copies of their post mortem report, or the DNA report. Even if they are not obliged to by law, why would they not, except if this evidence could be faulted and they don't want this to happen?

[thailandchilli]

It seems to me the defence have been on the back foot for weeks. There are only 3 days left, and any time during that three days that is not devoted to discussion, cross-examination and validation of the DNA evidence is utterly wasted time, that possibly leaves the accused open to a clear guilty verdict.

I simply don't understand what they are doing giving hours of evidence on working conditions of the Burmese, and video evidence that isn't even accepted in western courts as being anything but subjective and questionable, like "gait-analysis".

I wonder if they are competent, or merely just at the mercy of delaying tactics? But again, why didn't they make requests for the actual DNA report the absolutely central part of their case from day 1? Are they really going to wait until the time assigned to the case has run out and then say, we couldn't get the report, so we couldn't cross-examine?

In parenthesis it is very hard to think of any rational, unsuspicious reason, why, in a case being watched all over the world, the police will not give the defence any copies of their post mortem report, or the DNA report. Even if they are not obliged to by law, why would they not, except if this evidence could be faulted and they don't want this to happen?

They had an expert for this from Australia but:

Follow

Jonathan Head‏@pakhead

At #kohtao murder trial today. Defence have Aust forensic expert but she can't testify till police show documents that back their DNA tests

[Willy Eckerslike]

But Mr Hall told the court that the examination by the Norfolk coroner discovered .......... (REMOVED) contradicting the contents of the Thai pathologists report conducted immediately after her death.

The prosecution has alleged that her injuries are consistent ......... (REMOVED)

So whats the deal? Gunshot???

The deal is to imply a lot by saying a little.

My guess is that the very initial pathologist reports did not clearly state rape had been committed but subsequently it did, so it appears Mr. Hall is doing a bit of cherrypicking here.

No Wrong. The Thai pathologist said she was subjected to anal rape but no evidence found to substantiate this. No trace of semen and no injury

It was also the RTP that stated Hannah had been raped, it's also in the alleged confession so is AleG now questioning if a rape took place because the defence are asking the same thing? He's full of contradictions!!

AH, Stated

"I have removed parts of one paragraph out of respect for the families of the female deceased Hannah Witheridge as that section of the information provides a graphic description of wounds relating to sexual violence,..

++++++

The British autopsy report on the body of Norfolk backpacker Hannah Witheridge, murdered in Thailand last year, does not match the Thai pathology report according to a renowned migrant rights expert.

British human rights activist Andy Hall told her murder trial in Koh Samui today that he had been given a copy of the Norfolk Coroners report, conducted after the bodies were returned to the UK last September, and there were serious discrepancies.

Ms Witheridge was murdered alongside fellow British tourist David Miller on the island of Koh Tao. It is alleged that the 23 year-old student had been raped before her death.

But Mr Hall told the court that the examination by the Norfolk coroner discovered .......... (REMOVED) contradicting the contents of the Thai pathologists report conducted immediately after her death".

What if, Hannah was not raped in the biblical sense and the so called reports of semen are all false................................

[loonodingle]

I think someone is a Bait NOT a Gait expert... slip of the keyboard hey.

[JLCrab]

The thing with expert witnesses whether for gait or otherwise appearing in support of the defense or prosecution is that you do not know how many such experts were contacted until one was found that gives the results that supports the desired case.

forgetting about Gait for a moment, both pre and post footage of B2 shows them both wearing wrist bands, running man is not wearing anything apart from a pair of shorts that look far too big for him and seen clearly in the poor images - NOT wearing wrist bands

I don't know why you replied on that to me. This is the only running man on whom I have commented (edit) except for once commenting that the person in the video does not necessarily have to be anyone connected with the case.:

Edited September 24, 2015 by JLCrab

[catsanddogs]

It seems to me the defence have been on the back foot for weeks. There are only 3 days left, and any time during that three days that is not devoted to discussion, cross-examination and validation of the DNA evidence is utterly wasted time, that possibly leaves the accused open to a clear guilty verdict.

I simply don't understand what they are doing giving hours of evidence on working conditions of the Burmese, and video evidence that isn't even accepted in western courts as being anything but subjective and questionable, like "gait-analysis".

I wonder if they are competent, or merely just at the mercy of delaying tactics? But again, why didn't they make requests for the actual DNA report the absolutely central part of their case from day 1? Are they really going to wait until the time assigned to the case has run out and then say, we couldn't get the report, so we couldn't cross-examine?

In parenthesis it is very hard to think of any rational, unsuspicious reason, why, in a case being watched all over the world, the police will not give the defence any copies of their post mortem report, or the DNA report. Even if they are not obliged to by law, why would they not, except if this evidence could be faulted and they don't want this to happen?

Agree with all you say here. Also, why have the defendants not given their testimonies in full yet? One is half done, the other not done at all. This seems very odd to me. Am starting to lose hope now and fear that having followed this for a year now we are going to be left by the weekend with as many questions and frustrations as we started with with the long wait until a verdict is reached in October. Doesn't feel good at all from where I'm sitting, so hope and trust some bombshell is going to come from somewhere to ensure some sort of justice. This is the first time I have felt a lack of hope for the B2 and it sits horribly uncomfortably with me. No doubt silence from the friends and family will continue which will add to the feelings of hopelessness.

[Basil B]

The British government hides behind their policy of not getting involved in cases involving the death sentence and yet the UK's privy council acts as the court of final appeal for several countries that still impose the death penalty, meaning they make the final ruling in death sentence cases. Is it even possible to get more involved than that?

It is not the UK's privy Council, it is "Her Majesty's Most Honourable Privy Council", she is head of state to many different countries, not just the UK or more to the point the four that constitute the UK, therefore Westminster or the other parliaments that constitute the UK have no jurisdiction over those other countries of the Commonwealth that have a death penalty.

[Basil B]

We have used Gait to describe a person, since the 1980's

We used an A-H profile when doing intelligence gathering and collating information about suspected terrorists in Northern Ireland. The G stood for Gait.

So it's not a new method of part of an identification procedure it's been around for over 30 years within the British Military.

A = Age

B= Build

C= complexion

D= distinguishing marks

E= elevation

F= can't recall

G= Gait

I have used this method for many years and still do to this day, it works.

Very interesting...

Should be training the RTP, but there again in respect of the RTP Intelligence Gathering would be pooling brain cells.

[KunMatt]

We have used Gait to describe a person, since the 1980's

We used an A-H profile when doing intelligence gathering and collating information about suspected terrorists in Northern Ireland. The G stood for Gait.

So it's not a new method of part of an identification procedure it's been around for over 30 years within the British Military.

A = Age

B= Build

C= complexion

D= distinguishing marks

E= elevation

F= can't recall

G= Gait

I have used this method for many years and still do to this day, it works.

F is Face (complexion, facial hair, glasses, jewellery)

(Thanks to Google!)

[Darkknight666]

I wonder if they also asked Andy where the passport the Defense magically produced in December came from ? Why he told everyone in his fundraising page the B2 had been in Thailand for 3 years when in fact this is a lie.

below are three different links confirming it ,they had in a interview with Charlie Campbell frim time.com and in the court said that they were here for 2 years.

http://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2015/07/07/trial-of-two-murder-suspects-in-thailand-starts-this-week/

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murders-zaw-linn-details-police-torture-burma-thailand-myanmar/56989

http://time.com/3955081/thailand-koh-tao-murder-david-miller-hannah-witheridge-zaw-lin-wai-phyo-burma-myanmar/

Hello Samui_csi, why don't you just come out and say what you're personal problem with Andy Hall is? Get it off your chest mate! While you're at it, why are the RTP withholding the DNA? Surely they have the B2 dead to rights, No?

[JLCrab]

It seems to me the defence have been on the back foot for weeks. < snip >

Agree with all you say here. Also, why have the defendants not given their testimonies in full yet? One is half done, the other not done at all. This seems very odd to me. < snip 2 >

I do not know enough about Rules of Criminal Procure in Thailand, but one reason might be that the Defense wants the 2 Defendants to be on the witness stand with as little time left for cross-examination as possible.

Edited September 24, 2015 by JLCrab

[StealthEnergiser]

It seems to me the defence have been on the back foot for weeks. There are only 3 days left, and any time during that three days that is not devoted to discussion, cross-examination and validation of the DNA evidence is utterly wasted time, that possibly leaves the accused open to a clear guilty verdict.

I simply don't understand what they are doing giving hours of evidence on working conditions of the Burmese, and video evidence that isn't even accepted in western courts as being anything but subjective and questionable, like "gait-analysis".

I wonder if they are competent, or merely just at the mercy of delaying tactics? But again, why didn't they make requests for the actual DNA report the absolutely central part of their case from day 1? Are they really going to wait until the time assigned to the case has run out and then say, we couldn't get the report, so we couldn't cross-examine?

In parenthesis it is very hard to think of any rational, unsuspicious reason, why, in a case being watched all over the world, the police will not give the defence any copies of their post mortem report, or the DNA report. Even if they are not obliged to by law, why would they not, except if this evidence could be faulted and they don't want this to happen?

They had an expert for this from Australia but:

Follow

Jonathan Head‏@pakhead

At #kohtao murder trial today. Defence have Aust forensic expert but she can't testify till police show documents that back their DNA tests

Here is the experts Profile

Jane Taupin is an internationally recognised forensic science expert in her field. She is currently a self-employed national and international forensic consultant and trainer.

Jane has been an operational forensic scientist for over 25 years in both Australia and England. She has published many works, including journal articles, books, bulletins and conference papers.

She has been an expert witness in over 140 trials, including more than 40 murder trials. She has also been the lead biologist at numerous crimes scenes in Australia and England.

She is also considered one of the leaders in the world of clothing damage analysis. She has worked as the main biologist in multi-disciplinary teams in large investigations including ‘cold case’ homicides and has reported DNA profiling since 1999.

or all this, Jane has received forensic awards from the Governments of Australia, England and Japan.

She has written numerous training programs and methods for accreditation in forensic laboratories in Australia and England. She has mentored junior scientific staff in two countries and delivered training workshops in Australia, England, Ireland, Qatar and the USA.

Moreover, Jane was an internal laboratory auditor for many years in Australia. She was the chair of the QA group at Forensic Alliance in England and steered that organisation towards accreditation. She has been involved in successfully addressing corrective actions by UKAS at LGC Forensics in England.

Jane was the first Australian to be invited to be a member of SWGMAT (Scientific Working Group for Materials) under the auspices of the FBI, which met yearly at the FBI Training Academy in Quantico, Virginia.

Qualifications

• Bachelor of Science (Honours) in Chemistry
• Postgraduate Diploma in Criminology
• Master of Arts in Criminology
• Certificate IV in Training and Assessment

Awards

• 2009 Good Citizenship Award, Greater Manchester Police, England
• 2000 National Institute of Forensic Science Australia (NIFS) Best Paper in Best General Article Award
• 1998 Honourable Mention NIFS Best Paper in a Refereed Journal Award
• 1997 Victoria Police Service Award for diligent and ethical service
• 1997 Michael Duffy Travel Fellowship from Commonwealth Government, Australia
• 1996 Young Investigators Award, 14th Meeting of the International Association of Forensic Sciences, Tokyo, Japan

Memberships/Affiliations

• International Association of Bloodstain Pattern Analysts
• American Academy of Forensic Sciences
• Past member Scientific Working Group for Materials, FBI, Washington D.C., USA

Areas of Expertise

• Forensic Analysis
• DNA Profiling Evidence
• Clothing Damage Analysis
• Criminal Investigations
• Crime Scene Investigation
• Bloodstain Pattern Analysis
• Forensic Biology

continued

http://www.expertsdirect.com.au/expert-profile/?id=4100

Edited September 24, 2015 by StealthEnergiser

[webfact]

Defence asks Thai court for more time in British backpacker murders
KOH SAMUI, THAILAND | BY PRAPAN CHANKAEW

KOH SAMUI: -- Lawyers for two Myanmar migrant workers accused of killing two British tourists on a Thai island appealed for more time on Thursday to prove they were scapegoats innocent of the brutal, high-profile murders.

Hannah Witheridge and David Miller, both in their 20s, were beaten to death a year ago on the southern holiday island of Koh Tao, causing outrage in Britain. Witheridge was also raped, a post-mortem examination showed.

Lawyers are trying to convince the judge that Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun were framed by police under pressure to solve a case that has caught international attention and hurt Thailand's image as a tourism haven.

The defence tentatively had until Friday to wrap up its case, but chief lawyer Nakhon Chomphupat said there were problems convincing witnesses to testify as some feared retribution.

Source: http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/09/24/uk-thailand-britain-murders-idUKKCN0RO0HE20150924

-- Reuters 2015-09-24

[Basil B]

It was also the RTP that stated Hannah had been raped, it's also in the alleged confession so is AleG now questioning if a rape took place because the defence are asking the same thing? He's full of contradictions!!

For many of us who followed this from the beginning will recall this was a fact that was stated within days of the murder,

Quotes saying the defence is on the back foot... the defence is not putting forward new evidence, this is just an opportunity to call witnesses to discredit the prosecutions flawed evidence, most of the evidence put by the prosecution was discredited under cross examination, now the defence is calling their own witnesses many of whom are expert witnesses to discredit other evidence.

Am I right in thinking we still have a day or to of closing arguments to come?

[partington]

It seems to me the defence have been on the back foot for weeks. There are only 3 days left, and any time during that three days that is not devoted to discussion, cross-examination and validation of the DNA evidence is utterly wasted time, that possibly leaves the accused open to a clear guilty verdict.

I simply don't understand what they are doing giving hours of evidence on working conditions of the Burmese, and video evidence that isn't even accepted in western courts as being anything but subjective and questionable, like "gait-analysis".

I wonder if they are competent, or merely just at the mercy of delaying tactics? But again, why didn't they make requests for the actual DNA report the absolutely central part of their case from day 1? Are they really going to wait until the time assigned to the case has run out and then say, we couldn't get the report, so we couldn't cross-examine?

In parenthesis it is very hard to think of any rational, unsuspicious reason, why, in a case being watched all over the world, the police will not give the defence any copies of their post mortem report, or the DNA report. Even if they are not obliged to by law, why would they not, except if this evidence could be faulted and they don't want this to happen?

They had an expert for this from Australia but:

Follow

Jonathan Head‏@pakhead

At #kohtao murder trial today. Defence have Aust forensic expert but she can't testify till police show documents that back their DNA tests

Here is the experts Profile

Jane Taupin is an internationally recognised forensic science expert in her field. She is currently a self-employed national and international forensic consultant and trainer.

Jane has been an operational forensic scientist for over 25 years in both Australia and England. She has published many works, including journal articles, books, bulletins and conference papers.

She has been an expert witness in over 140 trials, including more than 40 murder trials. She has also been the lead biologist at numerous crimes scenes in Australia and England.

She is also considered one of the leaders in the world of clothing damage analysis. She has worked as the main biologist in multi-disciplinary teams in large investigations including ‘cold case’ homicides and has reported DNA profiling since 1999.

or all this, Jane has received forensic awards from the Governments of Australia, England and Japan.

She has written numerous training programs and methods for accreditation in forensic laboratories in Australia and England. She has mentored junior scientific staff in two countries and delivered training workshops in Australia, England, Ireland, Qatar and the USA.

Moreover, Jane was an internal laboratory auditor for many years in Australia. She was the chair of the QA group at Forensic Alliance in England and steered that organisation towards accreditation. She has been involved in successfully addressing corrective actions by UKAS at LGC Forensics in England.

Jane was the first Australian to be invited to be a member of SWGMAT (Scientific Working Group for Materials) under the auspices of the FBI, which met yearly at the FBI Training Academy in Quantico, Virginia.

Qualifications

• Bachelor of Science (Honours) in Chemistry
• Postgraduate Diploma in Criminology
• Master of Arts in Criminology
• Certificate IV in Training and Assessment

Awards

• 2009 Good Citizenship Award, Greater Manchester Police, England
• 2000 National Institute of Forensic Science Australia (NIFS) Best Paper in Best General Article Award
• 1998 Honourable Mention NIFS Best Paper in a Refereed Journal Award
• 1997 Victoria Police Service Award for diligent and ethical service
• 1997 Michael Duffy Travel Fellowship from Commonwealth Government, Australia
• 1996 Young Investigators Award, 14th Meeting of the International Association of Forensic Sciences, Tokyo, Japan

Memberships/Affiliations

• International Association of Bloodstain Pattern Analysts
• American Academy of Forensic Sciences
• Past member Scientific Working Group for Materials, FBI, Washington D.C., USA

Areas of Expertise

• Forensic Analysis
• DNA Profiling Evidence
• Clothing Damage Analysis
• Criminal Investigations
• Crime Scene Investigation
• Bloodstain Pattern Analysis
• Forensic Biology

continued

http://www.expertsdirect.com.au/expert-profile/?id=4100

She is extremely well-known, and what's more crucial, a genuine leader in her field- amazing that they got her (I have her book : Introduction to Forensic DNA Evidence for Criminal Justice Professionals 2013).

There is now no doubt at all if the report is made available this witness will be able to discern any discrepancies or inconsistencies without effort. She is a much greater expert than Pornthip in this field.

It still troubles me she has been called, is waiting to testify, and the defence have not yet established whether they will even get the report. What's more they need to be able to call the lab personnel who did the original testing, because the questions that will need to be asked will be too technical for anyone else to be any help.

[BritTim]

I see the 10 Tag Team against one opponent is back again, all screaming for justice and fairness.

I have no problem in you believing that the 2 Accused are Innocent. So why does it bother you so much that I am not convinced yet and like you? Is it because of what I said?

Was it false when I said the 2 Accused at first Confessed to this crime? That their Confession led to the discovery of what was reported as David Miller's Mobile Phone? That the 2 Accused were not on the beach that night at, or near, the time of the rape or murders? That the 2 Accused don't have alibis, except from themselves? That their clothes were stolen when they went for a swim? Or is it that the Thai Police did not claim that the DNA Samples from the 2 Accused match that which was found inside of Hannah?

I read all this in the Media and just like you did. So what have I fabricated to get you so upset at what I think and my own opinion? If you choose to think otherwise then Up-to-You! But attacking every poster you so happen to disagree with will only get this sight shut down. So please try to stay on topic for everyone else's sake, and stop the personal attacks.

That the 2 Accused were not on the beach that night at, or near, the time of the rape or murders?

The CCTV evidence shows them on the beach several hours before the time the RTP said David and Hannah left AC Bar. There is testimony that the Burmese kids were sound asleep in their room close to the time the RTP claimed the murders occurred.

For the rest, you rely predominantly on confessions extracted by torture. There are a few points that the defense still need to address, but I have seen enough to conclude the following: the Burmese kids are scapegoats, and the prosecution's version of events is nowhere close to what really happened

[BritTim]

Have you considered that the only side you got information from is from the Defenses Side reporting to the Media. Have you seen the Prosecution in the last 10 months standing outside with Reporter and talking about this case like them. Well I haven't. So just because the Prosecution doesn't get into a Cat Fight with the Defense Team outside with the Media, it doesn't mean everything said about this case is true.

I personally would rather wait to hear the information given after the Verdict is handed down, and if any is given and available then. Only the people in the court room can tell what has gone on, to a certain extent as they won't see all documents, but the Judges will. Reporting from the Defense Team seems to me that it might be biased, considering we all know what side they are on. But up to you if you want to believe every word they say.

Early on, some prosecution witnesses did talk to the media. In particular, the story about the "used up" DNA was "clarified" by them outside the courtroom, albeit in a contradictory and confusing fashion.

They have learned that, when the evidence does not support your case, it is unwise to draw attention to it.

[StealthEnergiser]

Human Rights Thailand accuse police of breaching legal rights in murder trial of Hannah Witheridge

07:56 24 September 2015

Sarah Yuen in Thailand

Human Rights Thailand has accused Thai police of breaching the legal rights of the two Burmese men on trial for the murder of Norfolk student Hannah Witheridge, and deliberately leading the detainees during re-enactments of the crime.

Janjira Janpeau, a representative of the organisation, attacked police procedure while giving evidence in court on the island of Koh Samui.

She said it was abominable that both the 22 year-old suspects had been interrogated and made to participate in public and filmed re-enactments of the killing of 23 year-old Ms Witheridge, and fellow British tourist David Miller from Jersey, without any legal representation.

cont:

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/human_rights_thailand_accuse_police_of_breaching_legal_rights_in_murder_trial_of_hannah_witheridge_1_4245303?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

[BritTim]

Fantastic work... comparing a walk on flip flops with a barefoot run.

Glad your expertise in gait analysis is here to point out the kindergarten errors made by one of the leading international organizations in this field.

[thailandchilli]

She is extremely well-known, and what's more crucial, a genuine leader in her field- amazing that they got her (I have her book : Introduction to Forensic DNA Evidence for Criminal Justice Professionals 2013).

There is now no doubt at all if the report is made available this witness will be able to discern any discrepancies or inconsistencies without effort. She is a much greater expert than Pornthip in this field.

It still troubles me she has been called, is waiting to testify, and the defence have not yet established whether they will even get the report. What's more they need to be able to call the lab personnel who did the original testing, because the questions that will need to be asked will be too technical for anyone else to be any help.

Yes and so therein the defense has a major problem, if the prosecution does not show the documents required then having this expert testify is next to worthless apart from making a general summary with no reference to the chain of custody and records.

Another poster here suggested the prosecution may make the documents available but not till its too late and she has gone. But who knows, the fact we do know is that withholding these documents from expert scrutiny is more than highly suspicious and can only lead to one reason assumption. They are deliberately hiding evidence.

[catsanddogs]

Nice to hear from you again Willy. Semen reports found in Hannah - quite possible that there was none. It took an age for RTP to decide whether she was raped or not. Suppose they had to constantly make adjustments to get their fabricated story right to protect some people.

[AleG]

It seems to me the defence have been on the back foot for weeks. There are only 3 days left, and any time during that three days that is not devoted to discussion, cross-examination and validation of the DNA evidence is utterly wasted time, that possibly leaves the accused open to a clear guilty verdict.

I simply don't understand what they are doing giving hours of evidence on working conditions of the Burmese, and video evidence that isn't even accepted in western courts as being anything but subjective and questionable, like "gait-analysis".

I wonder if they are competent, or merely just at the mercy of delaying tactics? But again, why didn't they make requests for the actual DNA report the absolutely central part of their case from day 1? Are they really going to wait until the time assigned to the case has run out and then say, we couldn't get the report, so we couldn't cross-examine?

In parenthesis it is very hard to think of any rational, unsuspicious reason, why, in a case being watched all over the world, the police will not give the defence any copies of their post mortem report, or the DNA report. Even if they are not obliged to by law, why would they not, except if this evidence could be faulted and they don't want this to happen?

From what I've read the focus on the next days has nothing to do with the DNA evidence:

"...on Thursday members of the National Human Rights Commission and the Lawyers Council of Thailand will testify in court about the human rights issues surrounding the treatment of the two Burmese migrant workers accused of the crimes. On Friday the court is expecting to hear testimony from the Myanmar Embassy highlighting the communication barrier between the accused and the interpreter used by the police during their investigation."

Yesterday the time was spent on Andy Hall talking about his and the MWRN on the case.

All in all, it looks like spending time beating around the bushes; and now I see they are requesting more time to make their case.

As for the claims that the DNA report was not provided, I'd like to see a more clear picture on the issue, all the report? a partial one? something that was requested on the spot during the hearing?. After all not long ago there was a big brouhaha over "all DNA evidence lost" that turned out not to be true.

If the police are deliberately withholding important information that is obviously problematic.

[joebrown]

It seems to me the defence have been on the back foot for weeks. There are only 3 days left, and any time during that three days that is not devoted to discussion, cross-examination and validation of the DNA evidence is utterly wasted time, that possibly leaves the accused open to a clear guilty verdict.

I simply don't understand what they are doing giving hours of evidence on working conditions of the Burmese, and video evidence that isn't even accepted in western courts as being anything but subjective and questionable, like "gait-analysis".

I wonder if they are competent, or merely just at the mercy of delaying tactics? But again, why didn't they make requests for the actual DNA report the absolutely central part of their case from day 1? Are they really going to wait until the time assigned to the case has run out and then say, we couldn't get the report, so we couldn't cross-examine?

In parenthesis it is very hard to think of any rational, unsuspicious reason, why, in a case being watched all over the world, the police will not give the defence any copies of their post mortem report, or the DNA report. Even if they are not obliged to by law, why would they not, except if this evidence could be faulted and they don't want this to happen?

Agree with all you say here. Also, why have the defendants not given their testimonies in full yet? One is half done, the other not done at all. This seems very odd to me. Am starting to lose hope now and fear that having followed this for a year now we are going to be left by the weekend with as many questions and frustrations as we started with with the long wait until a verdict is reached in October. Doesn't feel good at all from where I'm sitting, so hope and trust some bombshell is going to come from somewhere to ensure some sort of justice. This is the first time I have felt a lack of hope for the B2 and it sits horribly uncomfortably with me. No doubt silence from the friends and family will continue which will add to the feelings of hopelessness.

I am convinced AH has thus far been totally honest and straightforward in his defence of the B2 and has taken into consideration the protocols required when dealing with international bodies, the feelings of the accused and deceaseds' families.

I'm glad I'm not in AH's shoes as he's clearly touching a lot of sensitive nerves, and mightily upsetting the Thai establishment with this trial and his own Natural Fruit case.

If I were sitting opposite him now, drinking a cool beer, in an imaginary bar somewhere in Samui, I'd be saying " Andy, when in Rome, do as the Romans do! Your number 1 priority is to secure the innocence of the B2, NO MATTER WHAT IT TAKES, as long as you play within the Thai 'local rules'. Those rules condone perjury, deflection, incompetence, withholding evidence and delaying tactics. There are people out there determined to discredit you, one way or another. There are only 3 days left to save the B2 from a probable death sentence, yet you are issuing Tweets with parts removed because of some ethical agreement made with the UK Coroner(s). Do you honestly think that if the 'boot was on the other foot a Thai Lawyer would withhold vital and possibly exculpating information from the general public and media.?Personally, I think you owe it to the B2, both sets of parents and families and your petitioning/financial supporters to 'go public' with the Autopsy report(s) right now, because If you don't, and the B2 are executed, I'd hate to have their deaths on my conscience thinking I could and should have done more"

Edited September 24, 2015 by joebrown