Forensic team to testify in Koh Tao murder trial

[glenmohr]

In this clip at 1.37 there is a hoe with no broken blade have the RTP switched the murder weapon at some stage or is it just there for reference.

So you know think the RTP switched the hoe, then put 2 peoples DNA on it who are not the B2 ? I thought they are meant to be stitching up the B2 not helping them get away with murder.

My thoughts exactly.

Oh Yeah! Many Garden Hoes in Thailand come with a pointed blade and not just flat. Just Google Thailand Hoe and get an image. They are not broken. They are just made this way. I had one myself.

To Mr GB, If I owned a hoe identical to the one used in the Koh Tao murders, I certainly would not be telling the whole world.

[catsanddogs]

The prosecution never claimed that DNA from the hoe implicated the defendants, the results from the retesting... don't implicate the defendants, ergo, irrelevant.

The DNA I refereed to is from inside Witheridge, recovered during her autopsy, the one the defense choose not to contest directly because I don't think they want to have its validity verified.

Witnesses presenting evidence in court does not equal "unsubstantiated reports", much as you'd wish it to be so. What is unsubstantiated though is your accusation that the people that did so committed perjury.

There have been many conflicting reports of what has been said...statements retracted...contradicted....and blatently false delivered in the courtroom as reported in media and then minutely detailed by the heavy hitters in this thread.

Stealth loonodingle mad aussie etc...care to re entertain said reports? If we had proper recording mechanisms this would all be put to bed but i do remember you blowing your trumpet over the last year about waiting for the trial. Sir...this trial is full of shit. I believe you are a pretty smart guy. Answer khun Matt's questions please.

Conflicting statements and reports, as you pointed out, reported by the media; more often than not originating with the defense team who obviously has an incentive to discredit the investigation as much as possible and inflate any little fact or event in their favour.

As for khunmatts questions, first of I have already answered the questions, secondly by his past interactions with Balo I determined that he is not interested in an honest discussion, thirdly the moderators have repeatedly reminded that the discussion is not about forum members, it's about a court case and finally his questions are based on lies some people have been maliciously spreading about me.

In short, he is all the attention he deserves.

there's one under oath

• From the trial: Under oath Lieutenant Colonel Somsak Nurod stated he had spoken to the pathologist on the 2nd and 3rd Oct but after that had no further contact with him. The defense then produced a statement from the pathologist stating that Lieutenant Colonel Somsak Nurod had made two separate trips to meet him in late Oct and another on 18th Nov. The pathologist’s statement confirmed they talked about the hair found in Hannah’a hand. When challenged about this Lieutenant Colonel Somsak Nurod then admitted he had had further discussions with the pathologist but would not reveal what was said between them. http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/senior_police_officers_give_contradictory_evidence_at_hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_1_4215995?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

A timely reminder of one of their blatant lies. I'll take this opportunity to thank Stealth for the mature and strictly factual way he chose to respond to a shrill's post and at the risk of sounding like a pompous old git, would suggest that other posters follow suit. Please.

[Luang]

One thing is crystal clear. If the rtp had a DNA match there wouldn't have been all this subterfuge. They would have placed it on the table and let the defence independently test it. It beggars belief that anyone believes the rtp.

They did allow the defense to independently test it, the defense refused to do so.

That's a further big fat lie from you! They offered 'their records of the DNA testing' which we all know are unreliable to say the least. They have stated their is no original material left to test so we need to take their word for the authenticity of results.

Just stop it man!

[stephenterry]

One thing is crystal clear. If the rtp had a DNA match there wouldn't have been all this subterfuge. They would have placed it on the table and let the defence independently test it. It beggars belief that anyone believes the rtp.

They did allow the defense to independently test it, the defense refused to do so.

No they didn't. The so called semen samples were all used up. Only the profiles were available and by that time the defence has all the evidence they needed to disprove the rtp case . That's my polite response to your baiting.

[Madaussie]

The prosecution never claimed that DNA from the hoe implicated the defendants, the results from the retesting... don't implicate the defendants, ergo, irrelevant.

The DNA I refereed to is from inside Witheridge, recovered during her autopsy, the one the defense choose not to contest directly because I don't think they want to have its validity verified.

Witnesses presenting evidence in court does not equal "unsubstantiated reports", much as you'd wish it to be so. What is unsubstantiated though is your accusation that the people that did so committed perjury.

There have been many conflicting reports of what has been said...statements retracted...contradicted....and blatently false delivered in the courtroom as reported in media and then minutely detailed by the heavy hitters in this thread.

Stealth loonodingle mad aussie etc...care to re entertain said reports? If we had proper recording mechanisms this would all be put to bed but i do remember you blowing your trumpet over the last year about waiting for the trial. Sir...this trial is full of shit. I believe you are a pretty smart guy. Answer khun Matt's questions please.

Conflicting statements and reports, as you pointed out, reported by the media; more often than not originating with the defense team who obviously has an incentive to discredit the investigation as much as possible and inflate any little fact or event in their favour.

As for khunmatts questions, first of I have already answered the questions, secondly by his past interactions with Balo I determined that he is not interested in an honest discussion, thirdly the moderators have repeatedly reminded that the discussion is not about forum members, it's about a court case and finally his questions are based on lies some people have been maliciously spreading about me.

In short, he is all the attention he deserves.

Unfortunately that isn't the case is it AleG.

This started 1 year ago with conflicting statements combined with an under current of fear about speaking out against the RTP and local family who had been implicated by the Police.

Other than the Pancake sellers who else but the establishment have taken the stand?... None have they? No locals coming to help the police case just the rank and file.

Then we had some heavy weight Thai people discrediting the police case along with social media suggesting a certain person wasn't as he claimed in Bkk at the time he said he was. In fact he still hasn't provided any evidence to prove he was in Bangkok at the time just several hours after the murders despite all the cameras etc in his area nothing not one bit of CCTV.

The police don't want to speak out as they will make themselves look even more of a fool than they have on the stand. Lets face it its been a shocker.

The defence are happy to speak out as they feel they are proving their case. In some country's it would have been televised so as to ensure public support for the legal system. USA and recently South Africa done a fine job with Oscar's case. Whilst this isn't about the members, they do have relevance because with have divisions between the adamant they did it, to the No way in the world..... or to people like me who are wanting to see the full facts to make a final judgement. As it stands today I wouldn't be able to make a life or death decision and need to see the facts... But what does it matter what I think?? None..It matters to the familys though so some care should have been taken to ensure a watertight case if they are the guilty ones.

[Luang]

One thing is crystal clear. If the rtp had a DNA match there wouldn't have been all this subterfuge. They would have placed it on the table and let the defence independently test it. It beggars belief that anyone believes the rtp.

They did allow the defense to independently test it, the defense refused to do so.

That's a further big fat lie from you! The TP offered only 'their records of the DNA testing' which we all know are unreliable to say the least. They have stated their is no original material left to independently verify as requested by the defence so we need to take their word for the authenticity of results!

Just stop it man, no need to discredit yourself further!

[berybert]

there's one under oath

• From the trial: Under oath Lieutenant Colonel Somsak Nurod stated he had spoken to the pathologist on the 2nd and 3rd Oct but after that had no further contact with him. The defense then produced a statement from the pathologist stating that Lieutenant Colonel Somsak Nurod had made two separate trips to meet him in late Oct and another on 18th Nov. The pathologist’s statement confirmed they talked about the hair found in Hannah’a hand. When challenged about this Lieutenant Colonel Somsak Nurod then admitted he had had further discussions with the pathologist but would not reveal what was said between them. http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/senior_police_officers_give_contradictory_evidence_at_hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_1_4215995?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

Aleg...that is perjury sir. You have to admit.

Maybe, maybe it isn't; however that man is not the person that carried out the autopsy or the DNA analysis.

It does however prove that the people that did those things are not scared of contradicting statements from the police.

Why do you continue to ask AleG questions ? Even when it is pointed out to him that someone has committed perjury he refusing to admit it.

The man has something to hide. Maybe if there is a retrial we will get to find out what it is.

[Madaussie]

there's one under oath

• From the trial: Under oath Lieutenant Colonel Somsak Nurod stated he had spoken to the pathologist on the 2nd and 3rd Oct but after that had no further contact with him. The defense then produced a statement from the pathologist stating that Lieutenant Colonel Somsak Nurod had made two separate trips to meet him in late Oct and another on 18th Nov. The pathologist’s statement confirmed they talked about the hair found in Hannah’a hand. When challenged about this Lieutenant Colonel Somsak Nurod then admitted he had had further discussions with the pathologist but would not reveal what was said between them. http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/senior_police_officers_give_contradictory_evidence_at_hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_1_4215995?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

Aleg...that is perjury sir. You have to admit.

Maybe, maybe it isn't; however that man is not the person that carried out the autopsy or the DNA analysis.

It does however prove that the people that did those things are not scared of contradicting statements from the police.

Problem with lies is its hard to keep it going the more you add to the mix.

[AleG]

One thing is crystal clear. If the rtp had a DNA match there wouldn't have been all this subterfuge. They would have placed it on the table and let the defence independently test it. It beggars belief that anyone believes the rtp.

They did allow the defense to independently test it, the defense refused to do so.

No they didn't. The so called semen samples were all used up. Only the profiles were available and by that time the defence has all the evidence they needed to disprove the rtp case . That's my polite response to your baiting.

You are simply repeating the the ad-hoc justification from internet speculators for the defense refusal to do the retesting; needless to say that doesn't necessarily mesh with reality.

[glenmohr]

The prosecution never claimed that DNA from the hoe implicated the defendants, the results from the retesting... don't implicate the defendants, ergo, irrelevant.

The DNA I refereed to is from inside Witheridge, recovered during her autopsy, the one the defense choose not to contest directly because I don't think they want to have its validity verified.

Witnesses presenting evidence in court does not equal "unsubstantiated reports", much as you'd wish it to be so. What is unsubstantiated though is your accusation that the people that did so committed perjury.

There have been many conflicting reports of what has been said...statements retracted...contradicted....and blatently false delivered in the courtroom as reported in media and then minutely detailed by the heavy hitters in this thread.

Stealth loonodingle mad aussie etc...care to re entertain said reports? If we had proper recording mechanisms this would all be put to bed but i do remember you blowing your trumpet over the last year about waiting for the trial. Sir...this trial is full of shit. I believe you are a pretty smart guy. Answer khun Matt's questions please.

Conflicting statements and reports, as you pointed out, reported by the media; more often than not originating with the defense team who obviously has an incentive to discredit the investigation as much as possible and inflate any little fact or event in their favour.

As for khunmatts questions, first of I have already answered the questions, secondly by his past interactions with Balo I determined that he is not interested in an honest discussion, thirdly the moderators have repeatedly reminded that the discussion is not about forum members, it's about a court case and finally his questions are based on lies some people have been maliciously spreading about me.

In short, he is all the attention he deserves.

Hi Ale G , can you give us a link to your answers to Khun Matt as some of us may have missed this important info?

[Madaussie]

You mean like those secret document the Defense Team didn't let anyone see or talk about but were passed under the table to the Judges? Or as it was reported by the Media.

You're goner have to eat your words regarding the documents because they have significant dislcosure

Oh? So what are they then? You talk like you know. Perhaps you can share with the rest of us then.

I don't know what they are but in a fair and transparent trial I never heard of secret documents being passed around where the other side can't even contest them, as they don't know what they are. Have You?

I will remind you GB don't worry.

Unfortunately there is some legal considerations being taken into account as the coroner's have taken it upon themselves to interject some information that would otherwise be disclosed at the inquest in the hope that the B2 get a fair trial.

It obviously hasn't sat easily with either coroner so they have allowed the defence to hand their findings to the court. I cant tell you if It will be made public but its on record in the event of an appeal. I do hope it is as I am sure you are.

[Madaussie]

Oh? So what are they then? You talk like you know. Perhaps you can share with the rest of us then.

I don't know what they are but in a fair and transparent trial I never heard of secret documents being passed around where the other side can't even contest them, as they don't know what they are. Have You?

Whoops I forgot to answer the other part.

" I never heard of secret documents being passed around where the other side can't even contest them"

Well cast your mind back a few weeks ago the police handed in several documents at the end of the days hearing that the defence had not had sight off. so don't be surprised will you. It happens its Thailand

[Nigeone]

One news report suggested that information from a highly-placed source suggests that the court would probably take a long time to reach a verdict as it would need to examine further evidence

How can either prosecution or defense present 'further evidence' without it being part of the trial ???

Surely even in this crackpot of a system, evidence must be reviewed, examined, rebutted ??? What is this some kind of secret evidence thats not possible to be challenged ??

You mean like those secret document the Defense Team didn't let anyone see or talk about but were passed under the table to the Judges? Or as it was reported by the Media.

You're goner have to eat your words regarding the documents because they have significant dislcosure

Oh? So what are they then? You talk like you know. Perhaps you can share with the rest of us then.

I don't know what they are but in a fair and transparent trial I never heard of secret documents being passed around where the other side can't even contest them, as they don't know what they are. Have You?

Yes...the many many times the prosecution was asked for DNA by the defense and was not forthcoming. That's all pretty transparent NOT! And for the record the defense have still not got the claimed DNA as its used up,eaten or lost dependent on what you believe. Me I believe none of them. My foot is firmly in the B2 innocent court and your defense of the prosecution case is looking a bit more silly by the day! and do you really think for one minute this is a fair and transparent trial. I don't believe even you with your darkened blinkers on believe that !

Edited September 22, 2015 by Nigeone

[Nigeone]

the scene is looking different

No, it's exactly the same as before; the prosecution never claimed DNA from the defendants was found on the hoe. The only thing that has come from the independent testing of it is that it was, indeed, the murder weapon; so nothing new.

Meanwhile the actual DNA evidence the prosecution is basing their case on is being contested only indirectly by trying to discredit the process that yielded the results, instead of the actual results themselves; which I don't think carries much weight because it's not possible to by mistake or accident arrive at two DNA profiles matching the defendants.

The only thing that would produce a match is a deliberate faking of the results after the two defendants were arrested, and until they can provide any sort of evidence for such thing, IMO, the DNA evidence still stands.

I agree AleG or otherwise the Defense wouldn't be spending so much time and effort by trying to discredit this.

What I found most interesting about the latest news, is where did the Defense get Hannah's and David's DNA from, and to say it was n the Garden Hoe? Remember everyone saying that what the Police had was all corrupt, and tainted, and the replica was no damned good? For the 20th time?

If this came from the Forensics Lab in the UK, I would think he/she would have had to be their to testify to this, and show some proof of control and custody, since it is DNA. Or does this only apply to the Prosecution and the Defense can say anything they want and be taken as the gospel truth?

GB the problem with Aleg semen match , is that all we have is a statement to say it is a match. There is no chain of custody , the forensic officer taking the sample did not sign for it and could not account for an annotation/mark on the evidence bag. Documentation has been crossed out and been hand amended The guy who signed for all the mass dna testing on the island was not present.

Just look at the logic. Why would the defense team be bringing in DNA Experts to discredit this DNA which you claim is no damned good?

How do you know the DNA expert is to discredit the DNA . He's a forensic expert and that covers a multitude of areas..I'm with Loon...watch this space...there's something coming out ! For sure..

[GOLDBUGGY]

You mean like those secret document the Defense Team didn't let anyone see or talk about but were passed under the table to the Judges? Or as it was reported by the Media.

You're goner have to eat your words regarding the documents because they have significant dislcosure

Oh? So what are they then? You talk like you know. Perhaps you can share with the rest of us then.

I don't know what they are but in a fair and transparent trial I never heard of secret documents being passed around where the other side can't even contest them, as they don't know what they are. Have You?

I will remind you GB don't worry.

Unfortunately there is some legal considerations being taken into account as the coroner's have taken it upon themselves to interject some information that would otherwise be disclosed at the inquest in the hope that the B2 get a fair trial.

It obviously hasn't sat easily with either coroner so they have allowed the defence to hand their findings to the court. I cant tell you if It will be made public but its on record in the event of an appeal. I do hope it is as I am sure you are.

I don't care what it is unless it is some Trade Secret or a Military Secret which could harm Thailand. It should be made public in a public trial, if it can be used in any way. I don't care if these documents came from the Pope himself. If it was the Prosecution that did this everyone here would be jumping up and down and screaming how unfair this is. .

[Nigeone]

there's one under oath

• From the trial: Under oath Lieutenant Colonel Somsak Nurod stated he had spoken to the pathologist on the 2nd and 3rd Oct but after that had no further contact with him. The defense then produced a statement from the pathologist stating that Lieutenant Colonel Somsak Nurod had made two separate trips to meet him in late Oct and another on 18th Nov. The pathologists statement confirmed they talked about the hair found in Hannaha hand. When challenged about this Lieutenant Colonel Somsak Nurod then admitted he had had further discussions with the pathologist but would not reveal what was said between them. http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/senior_police_officers_give_contradictory_evidence_at_hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_1_4215995?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

Aleg...that is perjury sir. You have to admit.

Maybe, maybe it isn't; however that man is not the person that carried out the autopsy or the DNA analysis.

It does however prove that the people that did those things are not scared of contradicting statements from the police.

Problem with lies is its hard to keep it going the more you add to the mix.

So true...in this case a scenario was dreamed up and a situation was fabricated. Trouble with that is when the stories start to come out that don't fit to the fabrication it starts to get dodgy..Now the prosecution case is in such a mess and lacking any remotely credible proof or evidence they are in one mess as lies on lies don't stack up..As someone else has said recently and once again I will repeat what I've said countless times. From the start of this trial to now not one bit of evidence or any witness has been produced that would in any way,shape or form place the B2 at this crime never mind being involved in it. Quite damming really as it was billed as the perfect case..Would hate to see a bad or poor case then !

[thailandchilli]

Oh? So what are they then? You talk like you know. Perhaps you can share with the rest of us then.

I don't know what they are but in a fair and transparent trial I never heard of secret documents being passed around where the other side can't even contest them, as they don't know what they are. Have You?

I will remind you GB don't worry.

Unfortunately there is some legal considerations being taken into account as the coroner's have taken it upon themselves to interject some information that would otherwise be disclosed at the inquest in the hope that the B2 get a fair trial.

It obviously hasn't sat easily with either coroner so they have allowed the defence to hand their findings to the court. I cant tell you if It will be made public but its on record in the event of an appeal. I do hope it is as I am sure you are.

I don't care what it is unless it is some Trade Secret or a Military Secret which could harm Thailand. It should be made public in a public trial, if it can be used in any way. I don't care if these documents came from the Pope himself. If it was the Prosecution that did this everyone here would be jumping up and down and screaming how unfair this is. .

Ok so you don't care, not a lot you do care about apart from a guilty verdict is there.

[Madaussie]

I don't care what it is unless it is some Trade Secret or a Military Secret which could harm Thailand. It should be made public in a public trial, if it can be used in any way. I don't care if these documents came from the Pope himself. If it was the Prosecution that did this everyone here would be jumping up and down and screaming how unfair this is. .

Well GB if you feel so strongly then let them know they need to abide by your criteria.

The Lady you need to speak is Jacqueline Lake. Below is the contact details for you (thought I would save you the hassle)

Please do let us know how you get on I am intrigued

Address: 69-75 Thorpe Rd, Norwich, Norfolk NR1 1UA, United Kingdom

Phone:+44 1603 663302

norfolk@coroner.norfolk.gov.uk.

http://www.norfolk.gov.uk/Community_and_living/Coroners/index.htm

[berybert]

Some people seem surprised about the lack of evidence against the Burmese. Not really sure why, from day one this was an obvious set up.

Some thought maybe they knew something about what had gone on. Why would they have known more than anyone else on the island ? sitting on a rock smoking a fag 4 hours before a murder to my mind isn't a reason to make someone a suspect.

I would be more inclined to suspect someone who has spent a year deflecting all and sundry.

[Alwyn]

I wonder if anybody at this week's UN meeting will put the PM on the spot about this farce?

[fab99]

One thing is crystal clear. If the rtp had a DNA match there wouldn't have been all this subterfuge. They would have placed it on the table and let the defence independently test it. It beggars belief that anyone believes the rtp.

They did allow the defense to independently test it, the defense refused to do so.

No they didn't. The so called semen samples were all used up. Only the profiles were available and by that time the defence has all the evidence they needed to disprove the rtp case . That's my polite response to your baiting.

You are simply repeating the the ad-hoc justification from internet speculators for the defense refusal to do the retesting; needless to say that doesn't necessarily mesh with reality.

it would be more accurate to say it doesn't mesh with YOUR reality...

You call all of us "internet speculators".... the thing is the speculation is largely due to the lack of transparency in this trial : no notes/recordings allowed, almost nothing in the thai press.

The thing is despite this, we can read a lot of very useful information on this thread and I really appreciate the fact that people have answered your posts and GB's posts with credible information and haven't been too aggressive so far, that keeps the thread's quality higher than usual and that leaves your biased posts in the open for everyone to see...

Confronted with so much information showing ths investigation for what it is, you and GB don't bulge, that's quite amazing, and everyone here seems to agree and question your real intentions.

Happy to have this place to follow this trial, there is not much alternative.

Keep up the good work everyone, and keep things civil and factual, that makes the thread so much better.

[RWA]

These photographs definitely appear to be showing a hammer underneath the hoe.

A hammer?

I've only had a small glass of wine. To the right of the hoe blade there appears to be the pointed part of the metal end of a hammer and to the left of the hoe blade there appears to be a wooden hammer handle. It's as thought the metal part is not attached to the handle. The sort of hammer like the pic I'm attaching. Surely someone else can see this?!

abso-bloody-lutely!

[Nigeone]

You mean like those secret document the Defense Team didn't let anyone see or talk about but were passed under the table to the Judges? Or as it was reported by the Media.

You're goner have to eat your words regarding the documents because they have significant dislcosure

Oh? So what are they then? You talk like you know. Perhaps you can share with the rest of us then.

I don't know what they are but in a fair and transparent trial I never heard of secret documents being passed around where the other side can't even contest them, as they don't know what they are. Have You?

I will remind you GB don't worry.

Unfortunately there is some legal considerations being taken into account as the coroner's have taken it upon themselves to interject some information that would otherwise be disclosed at the inquest in the hope that the B2 get a fair trial.

It obviously hasn't sat easily with either coroner so they have allowed the defence to hand their findings to the court. I cant tell you if It will be made public but its on record in the event of an appeal. I do hope it is as I am sure you are.

I don't care what it is unless it is some Trade Secret or a Military Secret which could harm Thailand. It should be made public in a public trial, if it can be used in any way. I don't care if these documents came from the Pope himself. If it was the Prosecution that did this everyone here would be jumping up and down and screaming how unfair this is. .

Haha..that's quite funny if it wasn't in the subject where dealing with. Don't you think this court case and everything around it has harmed Thailand..Because I know it has. To suggest otherwise is taking loyalty a bit far. And just for the record in case you don't know,although I think you probably do, and information regarding the death where a coroners report is available cannot be made public till the official inquest. That's the UK rules. It's a pity the RTP didn't follow those same rules and then the interviews would have been recorded and taped and proper forensic testing of the crime scene and recording and collecting of DNA would have made most of these discussions unnecessary. Mind you because of the general incompetence we would not have been privy to the Pics of Nomsad running through town and the altered crime scene and not last the pictures of the Hoe..which hoe was it now that committed the act?? You have to be very very good to make lies stick and the RTP would never be called remotely good!

[cookee68]

The Lawyers are working pro-bono, i thought they were given money for that to start with from collections and the government

[thailandchilli]

"At the end of the wooden part of the hoe where the blade is attached seems to be a metal bit that protrudes out the back? Or is it a hammer lying underneath the hoe?"

YES! On this particular photo, there is indeed, a hammer underneath the hoe!

It is positioned just in the opposite direction, with the wooden handle pointing to 11o'clock, touching the the green leaf on the top (the blunt end of a hammer on the left side)

Thank you RWA! STRIKE!

This is pretty significant, another weapon in the mix that has not been tested and gone missing.

Mind you, I'm sure we'll have a troll come along soon and say leave this to the capable RTP detectives

[HughJass]

the only thing thats going to save these two is if there are DNA rsults from an autopsy done in UK in which sperm was discovered inside the deceased or skin samples under fingernails that do not match the B2

I find it unbelievable that no original sperm sample exists from the swabs taken from inside Hannah....my guess is that the RTP realise that this sample cannot be substituted by an easily obtained saliva or skin sample because forensics can tell the difference so they had to use the excuse it had all been used up to avoid handing it over for independent forensic analysis...also the mysterious disappearance of Hannahs clothes only adds to the obfuscation

if the UK police and the Witheridge family have any DNA samples i would like to see a private eye follow around the original suspects picking up cigarette butts,tissues,coke bottles etc for comparison

[fireplay]

You mean like those secret document the Defense Team didn't let anyone see or talk about but were passed under the table to the Judges? Or as it was reported by the Media.

You're goner have to eat your words regarding the documents because they have significant dislcosure

Oh? So what are they then? You talk like you know. Perhaps you can share with the rest of us then.

I don't know what they are but in a fair and transparent trial I never heard of secret documents being passed around where the other side can't even contest them, as they don't know what they are. Have You?

I will remind you GB don't worry.

Unfortunately there is some legal considerations being taken into account as the coroner's have taken it upon themselves to interject some information that would otherwise be disclosed at the inquest in the hope that the B2 get a fair trial.

It obviously hasn't sat easily with either coroner so they have allowed the defence to hand their findings to the court. I cant tell you if It will be made public but its on record in the event of an appeal. I do hope it is as I am sure you are.

I don't care what it is unless it is some Trade Secret or a Military Secret which could harm Thailand. It should be made public in a public trial, if it can be used in any way. I don't care if these documents came from the Pope himself. If it was the Prosecution that did this everyone here would be jumping up and down and screaming how unfair this is. .

Sir gold bugs people are "jumping up and down" here....on the last day of the prosecution's case, at the very end of the day...they dropped off a fat stack of documents..reams of "evidence"...in an underhanded move.

I can imagine the complete waste of time given to the defence team having to wade through more documents from perjured witnesses adding up to......what?

[catsanddogs]

"At the end of the wooden part of the hoe where the blade is attached seems to be a metal bit that protrudes out the back? Or is it a hammer lying underneath the hoe?"

YES! On this particular photo, there is indeed, a hammer underneath the hoe!

It is positioned just in the opposite direction, with the wooden handle pointing to 11o'clock, touching the the green leaf on the top (the blunt end of a hammer on the left side)

Thank you RWA! STRIKE!

This is pretty significant, another weapon in the mix that has not been tested and gone missing.

Mind you, I'm sure we'll have a troll come along soon and say leave this to the capable RTP detectives

Jesus, we've all been looking at that bloody bloody hoe for so long with DNA questions and crime scene scenarios running round our frustrated heads that we never saw the damn hammer! What now?

[Nigeone]

This hammer business could throw up so many possibilities. As the experts now say David and Hannah's DNA was on the handle of the hoe it makes you wonder was there defending going on with it? Don't know but possible. There was a hammer mentioned early on but never produced or mentioned again. If that is a hammer under the hoe where is it now. Whose DNA was/is on it and how does it compare with any injuries on the deceased. OMG...oh for a reliable,credible and corrupt free police force!

[thailandchilli]

"At the end of the wooden part of the hoe where the blade is attached seems to be a metal bit that protrudes out the back? Or is it a hammer lying underneath the hoe?"

YES! On this particular photo, there is indeed, a hammer underneath the hoe!

It is positioned just in the opposite direction, with the wooden handle pointing to 11o'clock, touching the the green leaf on the top (the blunt end of a hammer on the left side)

Thank you RWA! STRIKE!

This is pretty significant, another weapon in the mix that has not been tested and gone missing.

Mind you, I'm sure we'll have a troll come along soon and say leave this to the capable RTP detectives

Jesus, we've all been looking at that bloody bloody hoe for so long with DNA questions and crime scene scenarios running round our frustrated heads that we never saw the damn hammer! What now?

A message to AH going now