"not to lump everyone together who has a weight problem"

[h90]

What would be good would be that all of the people who post on here and do not have a history of weight problems might consider that their opinion is just that, unless they are bringing research to the table.

People who do struggle with their weight know more about this issue, just by experience alone. But they are also more likely to have read a lot on the subject. Anyone who comes on here that has never been 10k overweight or more and just shoots off that it's all about fat people living in denial ought to be called out as a troll.

You got to be ignorant not to know that their are multiple factors that make up a body type. I am not saying that there isn't fat people out there that would not be fat if they just ate regular meals without snacks. But I imagine most people who are fat by their teens have a few extra physiological factors working against them. It isn't a level playing field, or we would all be pro athletes. Most fat people have to work hard to become average weight. And learning about what science is working on can help lighten the load (so to speak).

Now what Jingthing does is bring out interesting articles from various places that really add a lot to the discussion. I have learned a lot from Jingthing's contributions, but I see the skinny trolls always got to put him down.

If you don't agree with the articles that's one thing, But respect that JT is bringing real info and opening up interesting discussion.

l lost 25 kg and have a hard time really keeping it under control Though i want to be more as slim, i like to be real lean abs and all.

JT brings in research but its always the same stuff, obese people have something wrong with them and that is why they can be overweight and and its by no fault of their own.

I have read tons of research and while i really believe there are differences as I am living proof of it, the reality is that the differences are not as huge. There is a 20% extra burn between both extremes. That is 1 meal a day. But this is for the people who are real fat and the real skinny ones. So the extremes at both sides of the range. In general it will be more like 10% difference. Still a lot but that does not account fro the huge differences in body-weight.

I have done extensive research into that range and reasons for and ways to change it. Went through medical journals, experiments and so on.

Sure the difference in burn accounts for something but the lifestyle accounts for a larger part.

Science won't help us much believe me I have taken more then a few drugs that have helped me burn more calories.(did extensive research) Except one none came close to an extra 10% burn.. more like 5% and then there were side effects. So for science to come up with something that burns 10-20% safely is a pipe dream.

Curbing appetite that is a more likely path as meth does that real well, to copy that effect would help a lot. If you look at the BBC documentary on kids you will see some that will eat until the food is gone and others that wont touch the food. That is a major difference so going that way would be a better way. Also a far more ethical way as finding ways to eat more and still stay lean.

The playing field is certainly not level but I don't see that as an excuse not to do something. I really dislike the predestined to attitude.

I have never had a problem with JT personally just his views.

It is actually complete irrelevant if you burn 20 % more or less. It isn't that you get force feed a specific amount of food. If your body uses 20% less than my body, than just eat 20% less.......

Some scientific research is interesting and helpful to have tips and tricks to make it easier. But the point is, and known since millennia: eat too much and you get fat. Eat too less and you get slim...

[robblok]

What would be good would be that all of the people who post on here and do not have a history of weight problems might consider that their opinion is just that, unless they are bringing research to the table.

People who do struggle with their weight know more about this issue, just by experience alone. But they are also more likely to have read a lot on the subject. Anyone who comes on here that has never been 10k overweight or more and just shoots off that it's all about fat people living in denial ought to be called out as a troll.

You got to be ignorant not to know that their are multiple factors that make up a body type. I am not saying that there isn't fat people out there that would not be fat if they just ate regular meals without snacks. But I imagine most people who are fat by their teens have a few extra physiological factors working against them. It isn't a level playing field, or we would all be pro athletes. Most fat people have to work hard to become average weight. And learning about what science is working on can help lighten the load (so to speak).

Now what Jingthing does is bring out interesting articles from various places that really add a lot to the discussion. I have learned a lot from Jingthing's contributions, but I see the skinny trolls always got to put him down.

If you don't agree with the articles that's one thing, But respect that JT is bringing real info and opening up interesting discussion.

l lost 25 kg and have a hard time really keeping it under control Though i want to be more as slim, i like to be real lean abs and all.

JT brings in research but its always the same stuff, obese people have something wrong with them and that is why they can be overweight and and its by no fault of their own.

I have read tons of research and while i really believe there are differences as I am living proof of it, the reality is that the differences are not as huge. There is a 20% extra burn between both extremes. That is 1 meal a day. But this is for the people who are real fat and the real skinny ones. So the extremes at both sides of the range. In general it will be more like 10% difference. Still a lot but that does not account fro the huge differences in body-weight.

I have done extensive research into that range and reasons for and ways to change it. Went through medical journals, experiments and so on.

Sure the difference in burn accounts for something but the lifestyle accounts for a larger part.

Science won't help us much believe me I have taken more then a few drugs that have helped me burn more calories.(did extensive research) Except one none came close to an extra 10% burn.. more like 5% and then there were side effects. So for science to come up with something that burns 10-20% safely is a pipe dream.

Curbing appetite that is a more likely path as meth does that real well, to copy that effect would help a lot. If you look at the BBC documentary on kids you will see some that will eat until the food is gone and others that wont touch the food. That is a major difference so going that way would be a better way. Also a far more ethical way as finding ways to eat more and still stay lean.

The playing field is certainly not level but I don't see that as an excuse not to do something. I really dislike the predestined to attitude.

I have never had a problem with JT personally just his views.

It is actually complete irrelevant if you burn 20 % more or less. It isn't that you get force feed a specific amount of food. If your body uses 20% less than my body, than just eat 20% less.......

Some scientific research is interesting and helpful to have tips and tricks to make it easier. But the point is, and known since millennia: eat too much and you get fat. Eat too less and you get slim...

I don't agree that its irrelevant, not if you have the same cravings as someone who burns 20% more. That means you got it a lot harder as someone with a higher metabolic rate. The problem is not the metabolic rate but when your metabolic rate and your hunger are out of sync. Its hard to combat hunger.

Its good to know we are not all the same but it should not keep us from doing what is needed. However people who are at a disadvantage need to know this. So its not just results that count but effort too. The difference in burn does account for a part of the difference in weight, but certainly not for all of it. That is my point.

[mommysboy]

What would be good would be that all of the people who post on here and do not have a history of weight problems might consider that their opinion is just that, unless they are bringing research to the table.

People who do struggle with their weight know more about this issue, just by experience alone. But they are also more likely to have read a lot on the subject. Anyone who comes on here that has never been 10k overweight or more and just shoots off that it's all about fat people living in denial ought to be called out as a troll.

You got to be ignorant not to know that their are multiple factors that make up a body type. I am not saying that there isn't fat people out there that would not be fat if they just ate regular meals without snacks. But I imagine most people who are fat by their teens have a few extra physiological factors working against them. It isn't a level playing field, or we would all be pro athletes. Most fat people have to work hard to become average weight. And learning about what science is working on can help lighten the load (so to speak).

Now what Jingthing does is bring out interesting articles from various places that really add a lot to the discussion. I have learned a lot from Jingthing's contributions, but I see the skinny trolls always got to put him down.

If you don't agree with the articles that's one thing, But respect that JT is bringing real info and opening up interesting discussion.

Yes but this posting in itself is argumentative, it basically says only people who are overweight can post.

[mommysboy]

What would be good would be that all of the people who post on here and do not have a history of weight problems might consider that their opinion is just that, unless they are bringing research to the table.

People who do struggle with their weight know more about this issue, just by experience alone. But they are also more likely to have read a lot on the subject. Anyone who comes on here that has never been 10k overweight or more and just shoots off that it's all about fat people living in denial ought to be called out as a troll.

You got to be ignorant not to know that their are multiple factors that make up a body type. I am not saying that there isn't fat people out there that would not be fat if they just ate regular meals without snacks. But I imagine most people who are fat by their teens have a few extra physiological factors working against them. It isn't a level playing field, or we would all be pro athletes. Most fat people have to work hard to become average weight. And learning about what science is working on can help lighten the load (so to speak).

Now what Jingthing does is bring out interesting articles from various places that really add a lot to the discussion. I have learned a lot from Jingthing's contributions, but I see the skinny trolls always got to put him down.

If you don't agree with the articles that's one thing, But respect that JT is bringing real info and opening up interesting discussion.

l lost 25 kg and have a hard time really keeping it under control Though i want to be more as slim, i like to be real lean abs and all.

JT brings in research but its always the same stuff, obese people have something wrong with them and that is why they can be overweight and and its by no fault of their own.

I have read tons of research and while i really believe there are differences as I am living proof of it, the reality is that the differences are not as huge. There is a 20% extra burn between both extremes. That is 1 meal a day. But this is for the people who are real fat and the real skinny ones. So the extremes at both sides of the range. In general it will be more like 10% difference. Still a lot but that does not account fro the huge differences in body-weight.

I have done extensive research into that range and reasons for and ways to change it. Went through medical journals, experiments and so on.

Sure the difference in burn accounts for something but the lifestyle accounts for a larger part.

Science won't help us much believe me I have taken more then a few drugs that have helped me burn more calories.(did extensive research) Except one none came close to an extra 10% burn.. more like 5% and then there were side effects. So for science to come up with something that burns 10-20% safely is a pipe dream.

Curbing appetite that is a more likely path as meth does that real well, to copy that effect would help a lot. If you look at the BBC documentary on kids you will see some that will eat until the food is gone and others that wont touch the food. That is a major difference so going that way would be a better way. Also a far more ethical way as finding ways to eat more and still stay lean.

The playing field is certainly not level but I don't see that as an excuse not to do something. I really dislike the predestined to attitude.

I have never had a problem with JT personally just his views.

It is actually complete irrelevant if you burn 20 % more or less. It isn't that you get force feed a specific amount of food. If your body uses 20% less than my body, than just eat 20% less.......

Some scientific research is interesting and helpful to have tips and tricks to make it easier. But the point is, and known since millennia: eat too much and you get fat. Eat too less and you get slim...

I do agree with this my point is if you burn 10% less you should be 10% less hungry. The issue is overeating. Presumably even though people are full they don't feel it. I'm sure a move back to more traditional diets of higher fat and complex carbs would help.

Also this goal of being skinny that a lot of people have. I have been thin all my life, it hasn't really benefited me a lot.

[h90]

What would be good would be that all of the people who post on here and do not have a history of weight problems might consider that their opinion is just that, unless they are bringing research to the table.

People who do struggle with their weight know more about this issue, just by experience alone. But they are also more likely to have read a lot on the subject. Anyone who comes on here that has never been 10k overweight or more and just shoots off that it's all about fat people living in denial ought to be called out as a troll.

You got to be ignorant not to know that their are multiple factors that make up a body type. I am not saying that there isn't fat people out there that would not be fat if they just ate regular meals without snacks. But I imagine most people who are fat by their teens have a few extra physiological factors working against them. It isn't a level playing field, or we would all be pro athletes. Most fat people have to work hard to become average weight. And learning about what science is working on can help lighten the load (so to speak).

Now what Jingthing does is bring out interesting articles from various places that really add a lot to the discussion. I have learned a lot from Jingthing's contributions, but I see the skinny trolls always got to put him down.

If you don't agree with the articles that's one thing, But respect that JT is bringing real info and opening up interesting discussion.

l lost 25 kg and have a hard time really keeping it under control Though i want to be more as slim, i like to be real lean abs and all.

JT brings in research but its always the same stuff, obese people have something wrong with them and that is why they can be overweight and and its by no fault of their own.

I have read tons of research and while i really believe there are differences as I am living proof of it, the reality is that the differences are not as huge. There is a 20% extra burn between both extremes. That is 1 meal a day. But this is for the people who are real fat and the real skinny ones. So the extremes at both sides of the range. In general it will be more like 10% difference. Still a lot but that does not account fro the huge differences in body-weight.

I have done extensive research into that range and reasons for and ways to change it. Went through medical journals, experiments and so on.

Sure the difference in burn accounts for something but the lifestyle accounts for a larger part.

Science won't help us much believe me I have taken more then a few drugs that have helped me burn more calories.(did extensive research) Except one none came close to an extra 10% burn.. more like 5% and then there were side effects. So for science to come up with something that burns 10-20% safely is a pipe dream.

Curbing appetite that is a more likely path as meth does that real well, to copy that effect would help a lot. If you look at the BBC documentary on kids you will see some that will eat until the food is gone and others that wont touch the food. That is a major difference so going that way would be a better way. Also a far more ethical way as finding ways to eat more and still stay lean.

The playing field is certainly not level but I don't see that as an excuse not to do something. I really dislike the predestined to attitude.

I have never had a problem with JT personally just his views.

It is actually complete irrelevant if you burn 20 % more or less. It isn't that you get force feed a specific amount of food. If your body uses 20% less than my body, than just eat 20% less.......

Some scientific research is interesting and helpful to have tips and tricks to make it easier. But the point is, and known since millennia: eat too much and you get fat. Eat too less and you get slim...

I don't agree that its irrelevant, not if you have the same cravings as someone who burns 20% more. That means you got it a lot harder as someone with a higher metabolic rate. The problem is not the metabolic rate but when your metabolic rate and your hunger are out of sync. Its hard to combat hunger.

Its good to know we are not all the same but it should not keep us from doing what is needed. However people who are at a disadvantage need to know this. So its not just results that count but effort too. The difference in burn does account for a part of the difference in weight, but certainly not for all of it. That is my point.

I knew that the metabolic rate is irrelevant, but I know that it isn't the full picture.....you solved the puzzle!

The problem is if metabolic rate and hunger is out of sync.....That is the point.

Hunger can be partially controlled by the diet (low carb) and by the mind.....But it isn't easy......Well I only need to think about JT ideas of cross/transfer gut bacteria and every remaining hunger is gone for 1 hour....

[h90]

What would be good would be that all of the people who post on here and do not have a history of weight problems might consider that their opinion is just that, unless they are bringing research to the table.

People who do struggle with their weight know more about this issue, just by experience alone. But they are also more likely to have read a lot on the subject. Anyone who comes on here that has never been 10k overweight or more and just shoots off that it's all about fat people living in denial ought to be called out as a troll.

You got to be ignorant not to know that their are multiple factors that make up a body type. I am not saying that there isn't fat people out there that would not be fat if they just ate regular meals without snacks. But I imagine most people who are fat by their teens have a few extra physiological factors working against them. It isn't a level playing field, or we would all be pro athletes. Most fat people have to work hard to become average weight. And learning about what science is working on can help lighten the load (so to speak).

Now what Jingthing does is bring out interesting articles from various places that really add a lot to the discussion. I have learned a lot from Jingthing's contributions, but I see the skinny trolls always got to put him down.

If you don't agree with the articles that's one thing, But respect that JT is bringing real info and opening up interesting discussion.

l lost 25 kg and have a hard time really keeping it under control Though i want to be more as slim, i like to be real lean abs and all.

JT brings in research but its always the same stuff, obese people have something wrong with them and that is why they can be overweight and and its by no fault of their own.

I have read tons of research and while i really believe there are differences as I am living proof of it, the reality is that the differences are not as huge. There is a 20% extra burn between both extremes. That is 1 meal a day. But this is for the people who are real fat and the real skinny ones. So the extremes at both sides of the range. In general it will be more like 10% difference. Still a lot but that does not account fro the huge differences in body-weight.

I have done extensive research into that range and reasons for and ways to change it. Went through medical journals, experiments and so on.

Sure the difference in burn accounts for something but the lifestyle accounts for a larger part.

Science won't help us much believe me I have taken more then a few drugs that have helped me burn more calories.(did extensive research) Except one none came close to an extra 10% burn.. more like 5% and then there were side effects. So for science to come up with something that burns 10-20% safely is a pipe dream.

Curbing appetite that is a more likely path as meth does that real well, to copy that effect would help a lot. If you look at the BBC documentary on kids you will see some that will eat until the food is gone and others that wont touch the food. That is a major difference so going that way would be a better way. Also a far more ethical way as finding ways to eat more and still stay lean.

The playing field is certainly not level but I don't see that as an excuse not to do something. I really dislike the predestined to attitude.

I have never had a problem with JT personally just his views.

It is actually complete irrelevant if you burn 20 % more or less. It isn't that you get force feed a specific amount of food. If your body uses 20% less than my body, than just eat 20% less.......

Some scientific research is interesting and helpful to have tips and tricks to make it easier. But the point is, and known since millennia: eat too much and you get fat. Eat too less and you get slim...

I do agree with this my point is if you burn 10% less you should be 10% less hungry. The issue is overeating. Presumably even though people are full they don't feel it. I'm sure a move back to more traditional diets of higher fat and complex carbs would help.

Also this goal of being skinny that a lot of people have. I have been thin all my life, it hasn't really benefited me a lot.

Well, I remember, I had to go somewhere urgent, rushed up the stairs to the skytrain.

When on top I was almost shocked because I could breath, not soaked with sweat, not hearing my heart pounding. Having lost more than 20 kg, but thanks to working out while dieting I maintained the muscles on my legs (which are used to 20 kg more) or made them even stronger and fly up the stairs like a humming-bird.....

That might not be the big life benefit, but I liked it.

Others get terrible ache in the back or swollen feet. If they are skinny that pain wouldn't happen....I think that is a great benefit.

It can be discussed if we should go higher carbs (Kitsune I miss you!), or no carbs, very fat or high protein. Every idea is valid somehow. I guess everything that cuts out industry food, sugar and very quick carbs.

If I don't eat breakfast I get hungry somewhere 11AM-12.

If I would eat white bread with jam and a heavy sugared coffee, I would be half dead from hungry at 9AM and eat anything I can get me fingers on.

Somewhen at 11 AM I ate 3 fried eggs with sausage, and I know somewhen at 6-8 PM I'll think that I should better eat something.

[robblok]

http://examine.com/faq/does-metabolism-vary-between-two-people/

Extending this into practical terms and assuming an average expenditure of 2000kcal a day, 68% of the population falls into the range of 1840-2160kcal daily while 96% of the population is in the range of 1680-2320kcal daily. Comparing somebody at or below the 5thpercentile with somebody at or above the 95th percentile would yield a difference of possibly 600kcal daily, and the chance of this occurring (comparing the self to a friend) is 0.50%, assuming two completely random persons.

And where we are talking random persons not even people who are of the same size. So in reality the differences in metabolic rate are not that huge between people of the same size.

That is food for thought, I think the problem is more the hunger / eating just like i seen in the BBC documentary where some kids just don't take the candy and others keep on going. So I think we should look less into changing the metabolic rate but more into the hunger sensation.

Edited October 20, 2015 by robblok

[canuckamuck]

What would be good would be that all of the people who post on here and do not have a history of weight problems might consider that their opinion is just that, unless they are bringing research to the table.

People who do struggle with their weight know more about this issue, just by experience alone. But they are also more likely to have read a lot on the subject. Anyone who comes on here that has never been 10k overweight or more and just shoots off that it's all about fat people living in denial ought to be called out as a troll.

You got to be ignorant not to know that their are multiple factors that make up a body type. I am not saying that there isn't fat people out there that would not be fat if they just ate regular meals without snacks. But I imagine most people who are fat by their teens have a few extra physiological factors working against them. It isn't a level playing field, or we would all be pro athletes. Most fat people have to work hard to become average weight. And learning about what science is working on can help lighten the load (so to speak).

Now what Jingthing does is bring out interesting articles from various places that really add a lot to the discussion. I have learned a lot from Jingthing's contributions, but I see the skinny trolls always got to put him down.

If you don't agree with the articles that's one thing, But respect that JT is bringing real info and opening up interesting discussion.

Yes but this posting in itself is argumentative, it basically says only people who are overweight can post.

No it doesn't, read the first sentence again. I'm saying that those who haven't walked in the fat shoes need to back up their opinion with facts. Because they can't know how hard it is, when it is easy for them.

Edited October 20, 2015 by canuckamuck

[chiang mai]

Are you suggesting that the basic rule of calories consumed versus calories burned, doesn't apply to everyone?

[canuckamuck]

Are you suggesting that the basic rule of calories consumed versus calories burned, doesn't apply to everyone?

Can you articulate this basic rule?

[chiang mai]

Are you suggesting that the basic rule of calories consumed versus calories burned, doesn't apply to everyone?

Can you articulate this basic rule?

That if a person consumes 2,000 calories and burns 2,001 calories, they will not gain fat.

[Jai Dee]

One troll post has been removed from this thread.

[robblok]

http://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/Fulltext/2014/07000/Examining_Variations_of_Resting_Metabolic_Rate_of.10.aspx

Seems here they don't find much differences between people when you remove age and muscle mass and sex from the equation.

So a lower metabolic rate is not really the reason for obese people to be obese.

I am a bit surprised as I always thought it wold be a lower burn that made me more prone to gain weight. I should actually have a high burn as I have a lot of muscle.

So it seems that its all about intake, that does mirror what I have seen in BBC documentaries about some children not eating the snacks and others will.

Seems that obese don't stop eating when not hungry. This is something I do recognize because even though I am looking at what I eat I do eat for pleasure too or boredom. Its not always hunger driving me to eat.

Also that supports what I have been thinking about appetite suppressants VS things that increase the metabolic rate.

[h90]

http://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/Fulltext/2014/07000/Examining_Variations_of_Resting_Metabolic_Rate_of.10.aspx

Seems here they don't find much differences between people when you remove age and muscle mass and sex from the equation.

So a lower metabolic rate is not really the reason for obese people to be obese.

I am a bit surprised as I always thought it wold be a lower burn that made me more prone to gain weight. I should actually have a high burn as I have a lot of muscle.

So it seems that its all about intake, that does mirror what I have seen in BBC documentaries about some children not eating the snacks and others will.

Seems that obese don't stop eating when not hungry. This is something I do recognize because even though I am looking at what I eat I do eat for pleasure too or boredom. Its not always hunger driving me to eat.

Also that supports what I have been thinking about appetite suppressants VS things that increase the metabolic rate.

small things, a glass of coke or a beer more every day is causing a lot weight if calculated for 10 years.

Often it is also thirst that let you believe you are hungry.

[robblok]

http://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/Fulltext/2014/07000/Examining_Variations_of_Resting_Metabolic_Rate_of.10.aspx

Seems here they don't find much differences between people when you remove age and muscle mass and sex from the equation.

So a lower metabolic rate is not really the reason for obese people to be obese.

I am a bit surprised as I always thought it wold be a lower burn that made me more prone to gain weight. I should actually have a high burn as I have a lot of muscle.

So it seems that its all about intake, that does mirror what I have seen in BBC documentaries about some children not eating the snacks and others will.

Seems that obese don't stop eating when not hungry. This is something I do recognize because even though I am looking at what I eat I do eat for pleasure too or boredom. Its not always hunger driving me to eat.

Also that supports what I have been thinking about appetite suppressants VS things that increase the metabolic rate.

small things, a glass of coke or a beer more every day is causing a lot weight if calculated for 10 years.

Often it is also thirst that let you believe you are hungry.

True.. I try to avoid alcohol and drinks like cola and others.. though I do take some syrup with water (diluted a lot) and mainly I drink tea. But having looked more into metabolic rates it seems the difference is not there but in the eating.

Though in the past i found articles saying there could be as much as 20% between the extremes. But its the appetite and eating habits that count for most of the problem. That is totally different as what some people here post. I think researchers have found minor differences and make it out as if its major. Because the other research does not point into that direction.

I would love to see some research that show big differences, it would be an interesting read.

[chiang mai]

Are you suggesting that the basic rule of calories consumed versus calories burned, doesn't apply to everyone?

Can you articulate this basic rule?

That if a person consumes 2,000 calories and burns 2,001 calories, they will not gain fat.

Bump

[h90]

http://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/Fulltext/2014/07000/Examining_Variations_of_Resting_Metabolic_Rate_of.10.aspx

Seems here they don't find much differences between people when you remove age and muscle mass and sex from the equation.

So a lower metabolic rate is not really the reason for obese people to be obese.

I am a bit surprised as I always thought it wold be a lower burn that made me more prone to gain weight. I should actually have a high burn as I have a lot of muscle.

So it seems that its all about intake, that does mirror what I have seen in BBC documentaries about some children not eating the snacks and others will.

Seems that obese don't stop eating when not hungry. This is something I do recognize because even though I am looking at what I eat I do eat for pleasure too or boredom. Its not always hunger driving me to eat.

Also that supports what I have been thinking about appetite suppressants VS things that increase the metabolic rate.

small things, a glass of coke or a beer more every day is causing a lot weight if calculated for 10 years.

Often it is also thirst that let you believe you are hungry.

True.. I try to avoid alcohol and drinks like cola and others.. though I do take some syrup with water (diluted a lot) and mainly I drink tea. But having looked more into metabolic rates it seems the difference is not there but in the eating.

Though in the past i found articles saying there could be as much as 20% between the extremes. But its the appetite and eating habits that count for most of the problem. That is totally different as what some people here post. I think researchers have found minor differences and make it out as if its major. Because the other research does not point into that direction.

I would love to see some research that show big differences, it would be an interesting read.

I think these studies about minor differences are actually distracting from the main reasons. People read and learn everything but it doesn't help them. They only get the impression that all is overly difficult and it won't work.

Or to formulate it uglier...Fat people want to talk about it but don't want to change it (eating less).....

[mommysboy]

http://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/Fulltext/2014/07000/Examining_Variations_of_Resting_Metabolic_Rate_of.10.aspx

Seems here they don't find much differences between people when you remove age and muscle mass and sex from the equation.

So a lower metabolic rate is not really the reason for obese people to be obese.

I am a bit surprised as I always thought it wold be a lower burn that made me more prone to gain weight. I should actually have a high burn as I have a lot of muscle.

So it seems that its all about intake, that does mirror what I have seen in BBC documentaries about some children not eating the snacks and others will.

Seems that obese don't stop eating when not hungry. This is something I do recognize because even though I am looking at what I eat I do eat for pleasure too or boredom. Its not always hunger driving me to eat.

Also that supports what I have been thinking about appetite suppressants VS things that increase the metabolic rate.

small things, a glass of coke or a beer more every day is causing a lot weight if calculated for 10 years.

Often it is also thirst that let you believe you are hungry.

This is very true and appropriate to Thailand. I listened to a health programme on BBC. People who drank water 30 mins before eating consumed less, about 30% if my memory serves me right.

[mommysboy]

What would be good would be that all of the people who post on here and do not have a history of weight problems might consider that their opinion is just that, unless they are bringing research to the table.

People who do struggle with their weight know more about this issue, just by experience alone. But they are also more likely to have read a lot on the subject. Anyone who comes on here that has never been 10k overweight or more and just shoots off that it's all about fat people living in denial ought to be called out as a troll.

You got to be ignorant not to know that their are multiple factors that make up a body type. I am not saying that there isn't fat people out there that would not be fat if they just ate regular meals without snacks. But I imagine most people who are fat by their teens have a few extra physiological factors working against them. It isn't a level playing field, or we would all be pro athletes. Most fat people have to work hard to become average weight. And learning about what science is working on can help lighten the load (so to speak).

Now what Jingthing does is bring out interesting articles from various places that really add a lot to the discussion. I have learned a lot from Jingthing's contributions, but I see the skinny trolls always got to put him down.

If you don't agree with the articles that's one thing, But respect that JT is bringing real info and opening up interesting discussion.

Yes but this posting in itself is argumentative, it basically says only people who are overweight can post.

No it doesn't, read the first sentence again. I'm saying that those who haven't walked in the fat shoes need to back up their opinion with facts. Because they can't know how hard it is, when it is easy for them.

Ok. One very important point to make is that there are different body types, someone with a wrestler's physique can't possibly ever be skinny. What many people might think is fat is perfectly healthy.

But I wonder how many people have this issue, in the main I see people who are just plain overweight. Yes of course there opinion is more important, it's just that more often that opinion usually involves the belief that there body operates differently. This is mostly untrue unless they have a specific ailment.

Sometimes people come on the board saying such things as "my diet is good, and I exercise, ok I have a couple of beers everynight". So the answer is obvious but never gets through.

Dieting is hard, and requires a sporting nature, which I suppose is rather cruel as overweight people often don't have this mindset. H90 for instance actually enjoys pushing himself to the limit and self denial. But we need to remember most people are not like this and it is no good making judgements that assume all people should be this way inclined.

[mommysboy]

What would be good would be that all of the people who post on here and do not have a history of weight problems might consider that their opinion is just that, unless they are bringing research to the table.

People who do struggle with their weight know more about this issue, just by experience alone. But they are also more likely to have read a lot on the subject. Anyone who comes on here that has never been 10k overweight or more and just shoots off that it's all about fat people living in denial ought to be called out as a troll.

You got to be ignorant not to know that their are multiple factors that make up a body type. I am not saying that there isn't fat people out there that would not be fat if they just ate regular meals without snacks. But I imagine most people who are fat by their teens have a few extra physiological factors working against them. It isn't a level playing field, or we would all be pro athletes. Most fat people have to work hard to become average weight. And learning about what science is working on can help lighten the load (so to speak).

Now what Jingthing does is bring out interesting articles from various places that really add a lot to the discussion. I have learned a lot from Jingthing's contributions, but I see the skinny trolls always got to put him down.

If you don't agree with the articles that's one thing, But respect that JT is bringing real info and opening up interesting discussion.

Yes but this posting in itself is argumentative, it basically says only people who are overweight can post.

No it doesn't, read the first sentence again. I'm saying that those who haven't walked in the fat shoes need to back up their opinion with facts. Because they can't know how hard it is, when it is easy for them.

Ok. One very important point to make is that there are different body types, someone with a wrestler's physique can't possibly ever be skinny. What many people might think is fat is perfectly healthy.

But I wonder how many people have this issue, in the main I see people who are just plain overweight. Yes of course there opinion is more important, it's just that more often that opinion usually involves the belief that there body operates differently. This is mostly untrue unless they have a specific ailment.

Sometimes people come on the board saying such things as "my diet is good, and I exercise, ok I have a couple of beers everynight". So the answer is obvious but never gets through.

Dieting is hard, and requires a sporting nature, which I suppose is rather cruel as overweight people often don't have this mindset. H90 for instance actually enjoys pushing himself to the limit and self denial. But we need to remember most people are not like this and it is no good making judgements that assume all people should be this way inclined.

[MaeJoMTB]

True.. I try to avoid alcohol and drinks like cola and others.. though I do take some syrup with water (diluted a lot) and mainly I drink tea. But having looked more into metabolic rates it seems the difference is not there but in the eating.

Though in the past i found articles saying there could be as much as 20% between the extremes. But its the appetite and eating habits that count for most of the problem. That is totally different as what some people here post. I think researchers have found minor differences and make it out as if its major. Because the other research does not point into that direction.

I agree,

Maximum difference between metabolic rates of men is around 400Kcals/day, that isn't much, no excuse there.

Eat less & exercise more and you won't be fat.

It really is that simple.

Edited October 23, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[singa-traz]

What would be good would be that all of the people who post on here and do not have a history of weight problems might consider that their opinion is just that, unless they are bringing research to the table.

People who do struggle with their weight know more about this issue, just by experience alone. But they are also more likely to have read a lot on the subject. Anyone who comes on here that has never been 10k overweight or more and just shoots off that it's all about fat people living in denial ought to be called out as a troll.

You got to be ignorant not to know that their are multiple factors that make up a body type. I am not saying that there isn't fat people out there that would not be fat if they just ate regular meals without snacks. But I imagine most people who are fat by their teens have a few extra physiological factors working against them. It isn't a level playing field, or we would all be pro athletes. Most fat people have to work hard to become average weight. And learning about what science is working on can help lighten the load (so to speak).

Now what Jingthing does is bring out interesting articles from various places that really add a lot to the discussion. I have learned a lot from Jingthing's contributions, but I see the skinny trolls always got to put him down.

If you don't agree with the articles that's one thing, But respect that JT is bringing real info and opening up interesting discussion.

Yes but this posting in itself is argumentative, it basically says only people who are overweight can post.

No it doesn't, read the first sentence again. I'm saying that those who haven't walked in the fat shoes need to back up their opinion with facts. Because they can't know how hard it is, when it is easy for them.

Ok. One very important point to make is that there are different body types, someone with a wrestler's physique can't possibly ever be skinny. What many people might think is fat is perfectly healthy.

But I wonder how many people have this issue, in the main I see people who are just plain overweight. Yes of course there opinion is more important, it's just that more often that opinion usually involves the belief that there body operates differently. This is mostly untrue unless they have a specific ailment.

Sometimes people come on the board saying such things as "my diet is good, and I exercise, ok I have a couple of beers everynight". So the answer is obvious but never gets through.

Dieting is hard, and requires a sporting nature, which I suppose is rather cruel as overweight people often don't have this mindset. H90 for instance actually enjoys pushing himself to the limit and self denial. But we need to remember most people are not like this and it is no good making judgements that assume all people should be this way inclined.

"Dieting", or "Changing your diet" is Fun, you get to learn new skills, such as cooking healthy meal.

Exercicing is a joy, you get to feel better in your body, sleep better and maybe do things you thought impossible.

It's all about which perspective you select to see life and your attitude.

Everyone can change their attitude, and the same apply to their poor lifestyle choices, I see it everyday.

But it doesn't really matter what other people do (except if it inspires you) ... the question is and remains, are you willing to change?

And if people think they are having a really hard time, I suggest they open their eyes to the world, stop acting like whining bitches and maybe disconnect from the internet for a while.

[mommysboy]

Replying to 112.

Wow ! it was all going so well until that last bit. I think it is what Churchill called snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

Seriously, don't assume other people can or should like what you like. You and I may like moderate exercise others don't, there's the heat for one thing !.

[Jingthing]

I wonder, where is the "new blood" posting on this forum.

I know they're out there, surely a significant percentage of Thaivisa members have issues around their weight.

So why do only a very FEW of them regularly post on this forum?

Of course I suppose some of the regular posters have never had any issues around weight ... so that's kind of odd unless they are medical doctors, which generally they aren't.

I recall some years back we had a scientist with a lot of knowledge about obesity posting here and that was amazingly helpful, but not recently.

Yes I've got my theories which I can guess you can guess, so I won't even say.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Jingthing

[MaeJoMTB]

It's a conspiracy!

[singa-traz]

Replying to 112.

Wow ! it was all going so well until that last bit. I think it is what Churchill called snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

Seriously, don't assume other people can or should like what you like. You and I may like moderate exercise others don't, there's the heat for one thing !.

The last bit? Sorry, I don't do sugar coated ... too sweet.

For exercice, it's not a question whether you (and I mean people in general) like to exercice or not (or do any other form of physical activities), but whether you need it or not.

I don't specifically find anything interesting in brushing my teeth, but I do it every day, multiple times.

For a start, my dentist does not need more money from me.

Society don't care if you like brushing your teeth, but social norm kind of dictates that you do this on a regular basis.

Why should it be different for exercices/physical activities? Why?

As for getting off the internet, it's simple, if you (and I mean people in general) would spend less time sitting on their chair surfing the web, they would have more time to do other stuff ... that involve moving their body (Physical activities).

People have to set their priorities ... be an internet warrior or being healthy?

I choose healthy.

And I really don't care on the type of physical activities, if you work in your garden for 1 hour, or if you run 10KM in 1 hour.

As for the complain how hard it is, my point is simple, have a good look around, are you really the one who has the hardest time?

Visit an hospital, meet disabled people or have a good look at the homeless guy at the corner of the street, suddenly that put whatever problem you have into perspective. So, have the decency not to complain.

"Poor boy, you are having a hard time ... here is a cake, you will feel better." ... come on.

Obesity is self-inflicted. Unlike the goose, nobody but you, is force feeding you.

How did you put the excess KG (10,20 or more)? ... a spoon, a fork, a meal at a time.

The questions are:

- Why are you doing it? What is driving this behavior?

- Why are you not stopping it? What prevent you to initiate the required change?

- Why can't you stop it? What skills are you laking that prevent you from being successful?

Those are the tough questions.

Starting to exercice on a regular basis is a piece of cake, compare to answering those questions.

So why are you (and I mean people) not answering those questions ... because it's hard, and it's easier to take a pill.

So wait for the magic pill ... while others have decided to act and enjoy life!

As for the heat, please please ... find another excuse.

[mommysboy]

Replying to 112.

Wow ! it was all going so well until that last bit. I think it is what Churchill called snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

Seriously, don't assume other people can or should like what you like. You and I may like moderate exercise others don't, there's the heat for one thing !.

The last bit? Sorry, I don't do sugar coated ... too sweet.

For exercice, it's not a question whether you (and I mean people in general) like to exercice or not (or do any other form of physical activities), but whether you need it or not.

I don't specifically find anything interesting in brushing my teeth, but I do it every day, multiple times.

For a start, my dentist does not need more money from me.

Society don't care if you like brushing your teeth, but social norm kind of dictates that you do this on a regular basis.

Why should it be different for exercices/physical activities? Why?

As for getting off the internet, it's simple, if you (and I mean people in general) would spend less time sitting on their chair surfing the web, they would have more time to do other stuff ... that involve moving their body (Physical activities).

People have to set their priorities ... be an internet warrior or being healthy?

I choose healthy.

And I really don't care on the type of physical activities, if you work in your garden for 1 hour, or if you run 10KM in 1 hour.

As for the complain how hard it is, my point is simple, have a good look around, are you really the one who has the hardest time?

Visit an hospital, meet disabled people or have a good look at the homeless guy at the corner of the street, suddenly that put whatever problem you have into perspective. So, have the decency not to complain.

"Poor boy, you are having a hard time ... here is a cake, you will feel better." ... come on.

Obesity is self-inflicted. Unlike the goose, nobody but you, is force feeding you.

How did you put the excess KG (10,20 or more)? ... a spoon, a fork, a meal at a time.

The questions are:

- Why are you doing it? What is driving this behavior?

- Why are you not stopping it? What prevent you to initiate the required change?

- Why can't you stop it? What skills are you laking that prevent you from being successful?

Those are the tough questions.

Starting to exercice on a regular basis is a piece of cake, compare to answering those questions.

So why are you (and I mean people) not answering those questions ... because it's hard, and it's easier to take a pill.

So wait for the magic pill ... while others have decided to act and enjoy life!

As for the heat, please please ... find another excuse.

Left with the impression this poster doesn't listen to a blind word of what anyone says. Some good points amongst the garbage.

[singa-traz]

...

Left with the impression this poster doesn't listen to a blind word of what anyone says. Some good points amongst the garbage.

Which points do you disagree or are uncomfortable with?

The fact that it should be irrelevant if people like to exercice or not?

[singa-traz]

I wonder, where is the "new blood" posting on this forum.

I know they're out there, surely a significant percentage of Thaivisa members have issues around their weight.

So why do only a very FEW of them regularly post on this forum?

Of course I suppose some of the regular posters have never had any issues around weight ... so that's kind of odd unless they are medical doctors, which generally they aren't.

I recall some years back we had a scientist with a lot of knowledge about obesity posting here and that was amazingly helpful, but not recently.

Yes I've got my theories which I can guess you can guess, so I won't even say.

It's simple.

Posts about personal issues which involve self-esteem and failure, even on an anonymous forum, are less likely to attract many people.

Easier to post a comment on how "a booze ban in Thailand" is violating our basic human rights (close to 12,000 views in 24h) than to reflect on personal weakness.

[robblok]

It's a conspiracy!

No its not, JT just put all the new blood on his ignore list.