"not to lump everyone together who has a weight problem"

[robblok]

No, I am not singling out robb, I myself have posted similar. It was just a recent posting that was handy to use. Natibve Brits often use 'you' in an impersonal sense of everybody.

As I say, they do not seem to have true freewill choice.

I am only presenting the story from an oft overlooked angle. It can be told from many perspectives, another one being over indulgence.

But if someone does something to excess that makes them sick and can't stop, well that is addiction defined. And the thing about addiction is freewill goes out the window, so it does no good to speak of choice and then criticise, though I must admit it is very difficult not to when someone is eating you aout of house and home or running up medical bills for instance.

With most obese people (not necessarily just overweight) there is usually some form of depression and perhaps a troubled background.

No offence taken its a discussion here we all have different views and i am quite thick skinned.

You are saying eating is an addiction. Nice never thought of that one. If it is like smoking it will be hard but not impossible.

Thing is I like many love ice cream and chocolate and could eat it every day. Fact is if i got it at home ill eat it. My solution is not to buy it.

But i get your point still if they want they can change it is hard but not impossible. I hate it when people say there is no free will. I believe we make our own success and failure (within our limitations of course)

[roo860]

The more I learn about obesity, the more I accept the disease model accepted by the American medical establishment. I know full well the cynical interpretation that it was based on financial compensation, but those who deny a medical (physical and mental), social, and environmental link to obesity are in my view simply ill informed.

The simple minded / moralistic old school explanations, we've heard them here hundreds of times, simply aren't good enough to both explain the problem and to offer meaningful assistance.

Must agree with JT on the mental aspect.

The tone of the last sentence, in some way, says it all. Over-eating is only the top of the iceberg.

Or the tip of the ice cream.

[h90]

No, I am not singling out robb, I myself have posted similar. It was just a recent posting that was handy to use. Natibve Brits often use 'you' in an impersonal sense of everybody.

As I say, they do not seem to have true freewill choice.

I am only presenting the story from an oft overlooked angle. It can be told from many perspectives, another one being over indulgence.

But if someone does something to excess that makes them sick and can't stop, well that is addiction defined. And the thing about addiction is freewill goes out the window, so it does no good to speak of choice and then criticise, though I must admit it is very difficult not to when someone is eating you aout of house and home or running up medical bills for instance.

With most obese people (not necessarily just overweight) there is usually some form of depression and perhaps a troubled background.

No offence taken its a discussion here we all have different views and i am quite thick skinned.

You are saying eating is an addiction. Nice never thought of that one. If it is like smoking it will be hard but not impossible.

Thing is I like many love ice cream and chocolate and could eat it every day. Fact is if i got it at home ill eat it. My solution is not to buy it.

But i get your point still if they want they can change it is hard but not impossible. I hate it when people say there is no free will. I believe we make our own success and failure (within our limitations of course)

You are pretty thin skinned now (I saw a picture of you)....Can't be more than a few Millimeter

[singa-traz]

Forget the end of the clip ... focus on the first part :-)

[chiang mai]

I read this and thought that it was hugely antisocial and unnecessary, a step way too far - not to be confused however where people , when they ask, are told home truths.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/woman-handed-card-on-the-tube-from-organisation-which-hates-fat-people-a6754706.html

[robblok]

I read this and thought that it was hugely antisocial and unnecessary, a step way too far - not to be confused however where people , when they ask, are told home truths.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/woman-handed-card-on-the-tube-from-organisation-which-hates-fat-people-a6754706.html

It is crazy and goes way too far.

[rogeroc]

Most of us will start to put on a few pounds at some time in our lives but i think the difference is that some are able to see it early and take action and nip the problem in the bud where as others (for some reason) continue to pile on the pounds. Once this has happened the vicious circle commences and the problem gets very difficult to address. If we know the answer to why these groups differ it may help to understand the complicated and very serious problem.

I have no science for this theory whatsoever but i think that most of us will quite rightly get a few polite (but serious nudges) from friends / family / wives / husbands as the pounds start to go on. I think that those who are willing to accept advise will take early action. Perhaps it is those who do not like being told (even in a delicate way) what they need to do that carry on into obesity.

[Jingthing]

Trailer from a new documentary telling the stories of four obese American kids.

[HLover]

fat scumbags, send them to the meat grinder= military

[HLover]

=that was for the fat American kids.

[Jingthing]

fat scumbags, send them to the meat grinder= military

This is a health forum. It's not a dumping ground for hate and ignorance.

[Daryle]

You don't see too many fat poor people. Must be something in that, to chew over!

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[robblok]

Can do v.s Can't do.

I feel there is a lot of negativity from certain posters on this forum. They are constantly pointing out that all the odds are stacked against some people while in reality this is not true. Sure it makes it harder as someone with beter genes, but certainly not impossible. It just means they have to be more strict but everyone can reach a normal weight.

Its just like in all sports, we can't all excel at it we can't all be Schwarzenegger or Lance Armstrong, but we can all improve a lot on who we are and what we can do by exercise and eating right.

If you set your goal to high like I want to be better as Lance Armstrong you will fail, but if you set your goal lower like I want to be better as average you can do it. I think the constant negativity of posters stating that things can't be done is setting people up to fail (or make them not even try). There is a fine balance between realistic goals (not overweight) and too high goals (competing in fitness model shows). But the attitude some display here just makes me believe they want an excuse for their failure so they don't have to change too much.

[Jingthing]

You don't see too many fat poor people. Must be something in that, to chew over!

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That is incorrect.

[Daryle]

You don't see too many fat poor people. Must be something in that, to chew over!

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That is incorrect.

That's my observation of poor people around the world. But if it makes you feel better your CORRECT!

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[Jingthing]

You don't see too many fat poor people. Must be something in that, to chew over!

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That is incorrect.

That's my observation of poor people around the world. But if it makes you feel better your CORRECT!

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Poor is relative. If you mean starving then they would tend to be skinny. If you mean regular poor they often rely on the cheapest possible junk to fill the stomach and in many nations such diets are obesity promoting. There is also the kitchen factor. Many poorer people don't have the time or facilities to shop for and cook healthy foods. Too busy just getting by.

[rogeroc]

I agree with the third sentence of the above Post. However whilst it is definitely lazier to go to McD's and pick up a burger i don't think it is the cheaper alternative. I think most poorer people in the West could be unemployed and they therefore have plenty of time to shop at market stalls and supermarkets for healthy products. I don't know about the US but go to most supermarkets in the UK at 6 or 7 o clock in the evening and there will be plenty of healthy foods (on the sell buy date) heavily discounted.

I suspect that the problem of obesity in the West is connected to the fact that there is so much choice re how we live our lives now (not just relating to food) and that certain groups of people seem unable to make disciplined and sensible lifestyle choices. In this respect i agree with the opening statement of the OP, this is a complex problem and difficult to address.

[Jingthing]

Yes it is a very complex problem for both individuals and societies.

[up-country_sinclair]

Eat too much and don't move: get fat

eat less and/or exercise and get slim, side effect hunger

That is the complete scientific explanation.

You're right, of course. It's really quite elementary. But some have chosen to live their lives in a state of perpetual victimhood. They're victims because of their weight. They're victims because of their religion. They're victims because of their sexual preference. Oh, the struggle!

Take some personal responsibility and be accountable for your actions. You're fat because you eat too much and you don't exercise enough.

Everyone knows this to be true, but perpetual victims will bend over backwards in an effort to blame someone or something else.

[robblok]

I had a really obese farang tell me he needs 5000 cals a day..

I said if you carry on with that you will get even bigger. If serious about losing weight around half that will help you out over a period of time. But, he was Pepsi/coke addicted...

Most people want to loose the weight.. but few want to make the changes and give up some things to make it happen.

[Jingthing]

I had a really obese farang tell me he needs 5000 cals a day..

I said if you carry on with that you will get even bigger. If serious about losing weight around half that will help you out over a period of time. But, he was Pepsi/coke addicted...

I wonder what his logic was coming to that number.

I wouldn't consider that a typical example of an obese person. More like one anecdote about one odd person representing ONLY that one person.

It is true that bigger people can eat more calories than normal weight people to maintain their current weight as being bigger they burn more energy even doing nothing.

That phenom represents a problem for those who have lost weight. A level of calories/exercise that caused weight loss or maintenance before eventually hits a point where it doesn't.

[mommysboy]

You don't see too many fat poor people. Must be something in that, to chew over!

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I suppose if you are talking about the starving in Africa, then that is about right. But if you are talking about poor people in general then that is incorrect.

[mommysboy]

Eat too much and don't move: get fat

eat less and/or exercise and get slim, side effect hunger

That is the complete scientific explanation.

You're right, of course. It's really quite elementary. But some have chosen to live their lives in a state of perpetual victimhood. They're victims because of their weight. They're victims because of their religion. They're victims because of their sexual preference. Oh, the struggle!

Take some personal responsibility and be accountable for your actions. You're fat because you eat too much and you don't exercise enough.

Everyone knows this to be true, but perpetual victims will bend over backwards in an effort to blame someone or something else.

You keep making the same mistake everyone makes in assuming everyone has the ability to exert freewill choice like you do. They don't. And you will make it worse with that sort of attitude.

[Daryle]

Eat too much and don't move: get fat

eat less and/or exercise and get slim, side effect hunger

That is the complete scientific explanation.

You're right, of course. It's really quite elementary. But some have chosen to live their lives in a state of perpetual victimhood. They're victims because of their weight. They're victims because of their religion. They're victims because of their sexual preference. Oh, the struggle!

Take some personal responsibility and be accountable for your actions. You're fat because you eat too much and you don't exercise enough.

Everyone knows this to be true, but perpetual victims will bend over backwards in an effort to blame someone or something else.

You keep making the same mistake everyone makes in assuming everyone has the ability to exert freewill choice like you do. They don't. And you will make it worse with that sort of attitude.

Just read some of your posts on this topic. You seen to be speaking from personal experience.

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[rogeroc]

You keep making the same mistake everyone makes in assuming everyone has the ability to exert freewill choice like you do. They don't. And you will make it worse with that sort of attitude.

I agree with your first sentence but the question is why do some people have that inability to make a sensible obvious choice. I am inclined to disagree with your second sentence, i think if it were considered much more unacceptable to be overweight then less people would be obese.

[mommysboy]

Eat too much and don't move: get fat

eat less and/or exercise and get slim, side effect hunger

That is the complete scientific explanation.

You're right, of course. It's really quite elementary. But some have chosen to live their lives in a state of perpetual victimhood. They're victims because of their weight. They're victims because of their religion. They're victims because of their sexual preference. Oh, the struggle!

Take some personal responsibility and be accountable for your actions. You're fat because you eat too much and you don't exercise enough.

Everyone knows this to be true, but perpetual victims will bend over backwards in an effort to blame someone or something else.

You keep making the same mistake everyone makes in assuming everyone has the ability to exert freewill choice like you do. They don't. And you will make it worse with that sort of attitude.

Just read some of your posts on this topic. You seen to be speaking from personal experience.

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Yes, I would hope everyone does, rather than talk about what should be.

Whilst I found it alarmingly easy to lose weight, though quite depressing, many of my friends and family are overweight and even obese, and simply can't help themselves.

I read up about it, and listened to some medical podcasts, and discovered it is a very complex situation.

The long and short of it is low self esteem, despair, pain, sheer habit, and damaging life events can lead us to a situation where we simply lose our moral compass. It is not the simple greed, and laziness most on this forum like to portray.

[mommysboy]

You keep making the same mistake everyone makes in assuming everyone has the ability to exert freewill choice like you do. They don't. And you will make it worse with that sort of attitude.

I agree with your first sentence but the question is why do some people have that inability to make a sensible obvious choice. I am inclined to disagree with your second sentence, i think if it were considered much more unacceptable to be overweight then less people would be obese.

Why?

[mommysboy]

I had a really obese farang tell me he needs 5000 cals a day..

I said if you carry on with that you will get even bigger. If serious about losing weight around half that will help you out over a period of time. But, he was Pepsi/coke addicted...

Most people want to loose the weight.. but few want to make the changes and give up some things to make it happen.

Why can't they do it ?

[Jingthing]

It's down to the simple minded black and white morality model for the complex social/medical problem of obesity. It's a way to explain it. It's a way that is obviously wrong. Obesity is the opposite of a simple problem and people confuse the fact there there IS a morality/choice aspect to it to mean that tells the ENTIRE story. But it doesn't.

[robblok]

Yes, I would hope everyone does, rather than talk about what should be.

Whilst I found it alarmingly easy to lose weight, though quite depressing, many of my friends and family are overweight and even obese, and simply can't help themselves.

I read up about it, and listened to some medical podcasts, and discovered it is a very complex situation.

The long and short of it is low self esteem, despair, pain, sheer habit, and damaging life events can lead us to a situation where we simply lose our moral compass. It is not the simple greed, and laziness most on this forum like to portray.

I don't agree with you sure people get in those situations because of depression and other stuff. But that depression does not last a lifetime at some point they can help themselves. I got there too because of bad choices and some problems and pain but at some point you look in the mirror and want to make a change.

I agree that getting into the situation has its reasons other then greed and laziness, but getting out of them once the underlying problem is cured is laziness and the unwillingness to change. (only a real small portion of people has a valid medical problem)

We can all do with our lives and body whatever we want, nothing stops us but our own will to change.