Emaux vs Hayward

[otherstuff]

I have tons of info extolling the virtues of Hayward (and strongly leaning that way), but a local pool builder is pushing Emaux. Perhaps for the higher margin - I do not know. So, I am doing my due diligence and looking for other opinions of Emaux products. Preferably from customers with first-hand experiences with Emaux products. I intend to go with a single brand for a complete system. Quality over cost. Thanks!

[sappersrest]

The big point is how easily is it to get spares here in Thailand.

Look through some online spares catalogs and pick out a couple of items i.e. lid seals, mechanical seals and you and a couple of your mates phone around local pool shops and see what availability is.

I will probably get shot down in flames but for the average home pool the quality is much the same you will find that most pumps etc are made by one or two companies and rebranded with Hayward being the exception the quality is good.

Im my opinion Astral equipment takes a lot of beating. They are part of the Fluidra group and supply half of the pool equipment worldwide not just under the Astral brand.

Edited October 5, 2015 by sappersrest

[SantiSuk]

I was not impressed when my Astral sand filter split within 2 years of installation and had to be replaced. The pump and chlorinator have held up fine (but one would expect that, given my pool is only 4 years old)

OP should also ask about the local Thai guarantee for the equipment he buys. Fluidra in Thailand told me that the filter is guaranteed only one year, whereas the US website for Fluidra clearly states 5 years there for the same model.

[sappersrest]

I was not impressed when my Astral sand filter split within 2 years of installation and had to be replaced. The pump and chlorinator have held up fine (but one would expect that, given my pool is only 4 years old)

OP should also ask about the local Thai guarantee for the equipment he buys. Fluidra in Thailand told me that the filter is guaranteed only one year, whereas the US website for Fluidra clearly states 5 years there for the same model.

Don't be taken in by these long guarantees they are not what they seem . they are pro rata based on usage, i.e. 4 years into your 5 year warranty you will only get 1/5 of the cost off a new filter.Most installers in Europe certainly won't pass these long extended warranties on to the customers as they can be a real pain to settle.

On the very rare occasions I have had a filter fail the manufacturers have repaired it. Astral have a team that travel all over the world repairing commercial filters.

To the manufacturers home pumps and filters are nearlyy throw away items to them in terms of warranty.(the trade gets between 40%-65% discount in most cases , not sure about discounts in Thailand) A good pool shop with good relations with its suppliers should not have to much problems, in replacing stuff under warranty it is when installers and pool shops chop and change suppliers the problems start.Usually done because they have cash flow problems, or chasing cheaper prices.

As I said previously the availability of spares should be the issue (Hayward spares can be obtained globally, and through development a lot of their stuff has spares that are interchangeable with older models.

Depending on the size of pool the OP is having constructed consideration should be given to flow inlets skimmers etc. High velocity on in lets and outlets can be dangerous,.

[TheCruncher]

I have in my pool pump house a 3Hp Hayward and a 3Hp Emaux, however neither of both have failed and the Emaux was remarkably cheaper , I would not decide on the Emaux again due to the excessive noise over the Hayward.

[Chaichara]

Hayward equipment is roughly twice the price of Emaux. That does not necessarily represent any significant difference in quality. Hayward have long monopolised the world market for pool supplies and has become somewhat of a household name in the US, like Astral in continental Europe and Certikin in the UK, but nowadays there is stiff competition from nearby Australian manufacturers with their state-of-the-art assembly plants in China, whose brand names are just as much a sign of quality in Asia and Australasia as Hayward is in the northern and western hemisphere. Hayward's double logistics from their outsourced motor manufacturer in Mexico to California for assembly might not be conducive to keeping prices down.

I don't think a genuine pool constructor is much bothered about the price difference - Baht 25,000 to 50,0000 for a pump and filter together does not impact significantly on a Baht 750,000- 900,000 budget for a decent medium sized domestic pool. It only matters if someone wants a really cheap solution for a 3 x 4 plunge pool.

If someone walks into a store and says "I want a 1.5 HP Hayward TriStar, please" the shopkeeper isn't going to argue any more than if the customer asks for a 1.5 HP Emaux SPH. A sale is a sale and he'll dive into the store room and fetch whatever the customer wants. Some customers might ask for advice or for the specialist's personal opinion, but that's a different ball game and a good pool salesperson will still let the customer make his own choice after weighing up the pros and cons. For pool customers who are convinced that expensive automatically equates to high quality and have no budgetary consideradtions to take into account - fair enough, Hayward pumps are probably not going to break down any sooner than Emaux.

[IMHO]

I have a few Emaux parts in my system (not their pumps though), and I'd consider them "good for the price" rather than "best quality". That said, no complaints with them except for their pool cleaner robot - cheap yes, effective no - everything else from them is OK but there's clearly higher quality and much more expensive options available.

I have no problems using them for parts of the system that are readily/easily serviceable (filters, valves etc), not sure I'd want to save the money on parts that are much harder to service though (e.g. main drains, return jets, skimmers etc).

I am not adverse to having a multi-brand system though

Edited October 22, 2015 by IMHO

[Chaichara]

That said, no complaints with them except for their pool cleaner robot - cheap yes, effective no - everything else from them is OK but there's clearly higher quality and much more expensive options available.

None of those kind of pool cleaners, even the more expensive Pentair Kreepy Krauly or the Zodiac Barracuda are really suitable for anything much larger than a plunge pool - I've got a shed full of them at my house in Avignon. I've had a proper robot from Dolphin for several years here and now that prices have gone down with a huge bump in Thailand since they introduced the new series this month I'll be getting one that climbs the walls and giving the old one to my father-in-law.

[SantiSuk]

Interesting comment Chaichara - so you are saying that for someone who has say a 90cu.m pool (me) i should just suck it up (figuratively and literally) and keep doing the manual vacuuming job.

After 4 years of doing so I was about on the point of getting a robot

[otherstuff]

I have read elsewhere that Emaux pumps are significantly louder than Hayward. I am unable to find spec documentation for Emaux models. Noise is one of the important deciding factors on my list of considerations.

Anyone have spec docs they can share?

[Chaichara]

Interesting comment Chaichara - so you are saying that for someone who has say a 90cu.m pool (me) i should just suck it up (figuratively and literally) and keep doing the manual vacuuming job.

After 4 years of doing so I was about on the point of getting a robot

IMG_4059.jpg

I didn't say that at all,Santi

The Emaux, The Kreepy, and the Barracuda, or any products from other brands that look similar, are not true robots. The pattern they describe when cleaning the floor is completely arbitrary and they also rely on a fairly powerful pump. Any pool that functions from a marginally adequate pump/filtration system - especially small-pool systems of 1HP or less - may find that the actual suction through the vac port or the skimmer plate is not sufficient to provide enough suction power for an optimal performance. I know several people here and in France who have bought these things and where they are now, like in my house in France, lying around unused in the pump house or the garage.

For my money (and I'm not rich), I would invest in a proper robot for anything larger than, say, a 4 x 8. Your 90cu doesn't mean anything here - it could be a very small but very deep pool. Robots are designed to clean the floors and walls, not to take over from the general filtration system. So what I said was that I'm giving my exelent Dolphin Swash (that doesn't climb the walls) to my father in law, and buying the new Dolphin S-Series that replaces it, cleans the walls too, and amazingly at a significantly lower price than what I paid for the Swash a few years ago. What we must not forget however, is that for many of the posters here (some who even quibble over a few satang difference in the price of chlorine from one retailer to another), proper robots may well be stretching the average retiree's budget. What you decide is to do is up to you, don't take my advice as a retired, out-of-touch pool pro, talk to a pool professional who is in business and who is honest enough to sell you what YOU want and need rather than the product that makes him the quickest sale and/or the most profit.

That said, a book on pool construction recommended by the OP is nearly the price of one of the new Dolphins!

Edited October 25, 2015 by Chaichara

[Chaichara]

I have read elsewhere that Emaux pumps are significantly louder than Hayward. I am unable to find spec documentation for Emaux models. Noise is one of the important deciding factors on my list of considerations.

Anyone have spec docs they can share?

From what I've seen here in Thailand, I wouldn't say that Emaux pumps are significantly louder than any other brand. But then, I've neve put different brands side by side and listened too them, and that's why I'm very warey of heresay. Most people don't design pools that large too close to a house where the noise may be a disturbance and in any case, a proprly conceived project will have the techncial equipment located in a dedicated machine room. From what I understand, othersuff, you are probably going to build a failrly large pool under very exacting specifications, so if your budget isn't so much of a deciding factor, if you think it would give you peace of mind, go for Hayward - it won't make any difference to thr retailer who stocks both, and the price difference won't impact more than about Baht 10,000 - 20,000 on a 2 mio baht pool. Bear in mind though that the top of the range products from Emaux as well as Hayward are designed for quiet running. FWIW, I have Emaux pumps: two on the filtration, one on the waterfall and one on the fountains, sometimes the are all running together. From the garden I only hear a low murmur, and from the house I can't hear anything. If its spec docs you want, why not search for them and download them from the manufacturers' web sites?

[IMHO]

That said, a book on pool construction recommended by the OP is nearly the price of one of the new Dolphins!

Got a lead on someone that sells the Dolphins in Thailand, at reasonable prices?

[TheCruncher]

That said, a book on pool construction recommended by the OP is nearly the price of one of the new Dolphins!

Got a lead on someone that sells the Dolphins in Thailand, at reasonable prices?

http://dolphinpoolrobot.com/en/find-distributer/asia/thailand

[Chaichara]

That said, a book on pool construction recommended by the OP is nearly the price of one of the new Dolphins!

Got a lead on someone that sells the Dolphins in Thailand, at reasonable prices?

Yes, but unfortunately I'm not sharing it. I've been accused of being a shill too many times by some of our ruder TV pool forum members. It's easy enough to find - there aren't 2,000 respectable pool supplies retailers in Thailand.

[otherstuff]

[That said, a book on pool construction recommended by the OP is nearly the price of one of the new Dolphins!

This is not a true statement regarding the OP or the price.

[Chaichara]

[That said, a book on pool construction recommended by the OP is nearly the price of one of the new Dolphins!

This is not a true statement regarding the OP or the price.

Correct. My error. It was indeed someone else mentioned the SPATA guide that costs two thirds of the price of a robot. In this thread: http://www.amazon.com/Builders-Guide-Swimming-Pool-Construction/dp/1889892505/ref=sr_n1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1444039526&sr=8-1&keywords=1889892505

you mentioned a book that costs $49.95 and one that costs $64.00 - both probably great for DIY pool constructors.

[kamalabob2]

In 2007 I hired JD Pools to design a swimming pool and sourced a salt chlorinator, Pentair water pump, spa jet, led pool lights and swimming pool chemicals from that Bangkok based firm. The Buriram Province home building contractor that built that home did the basic construction of the swimming pool and installed the Kera Swimming pool tiles. I met in person with Thanusak Phungdet the managing director of JD Pools at his headquarters on New Petchaburi Road and at two Architect Expo events. When the Pentair swimming pool pump was out of warranty and I realized the repair fee quoted by JD Pools I went to the Buriram Builders Merchants who had provided me Pooltrine Algaecide, Water Clarifier, swimming pool salt at a lower price than any on line swimming pool chemical supplier had quoted me. I bought a low cost 1.2 hp APP swimming pool pump which has worked perfect for my modest Isaan residential swimming pool in 2009 for less money than a repair of my similar sized Pentair swimming pool pump. The Buriram water pump shop sent two men to install my new APP swimming pool pump the very next day and with labor I saved a significant baht over even a out of warranty repair on the Pentair Swimming pool pump.

In 2008 a fellow expat also hired the same Buriram house building contractor to build a very nice swimming pool and home in a Krasang Buriram Village. He also hired JD Pools to design his stunning RCI tiled concrete swimming pool and to install top of the range equipment. When it came time for that fellow expat to price a Dolphin Supreme M4 Wonder Brush and Swivel robot pool cleaner he shopped around and got a price from JD Pools, Pool & Spa and two on line sellers of swimming pool equipment in Thailand. He found the lowest price was from the Buriram water pump shop that he had been buying swimming pool chemicals. In my observation and actual purchase of swimming pool items it might be worthwhile for the OP to meet face to face with local water pump shop owners in his province to compare the Hayward Water pump price to the Emaux water pump price including delivery and installation at his home.

[SwimmingPoolsThailand]

At the incredible new low prices and excellent features, our first shipment of the new Dolphin robots sold out within 72 hours, so our special introductory offer is now unfortunately ended.

However, our normal retail prices are still roughly half the price of the models in the old range allowing you now to buy at prices similar to Australia and even lower than at some stores in Europe. Fully guranteed 2 years, of course.

New stock arriving in January. Check them out on our website. See the videos.

Edited December 24, 2015 by SwimmingPoolsThailand