Chicog Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 I shall make a few points. Assad was a democratically elected prime minister of Syria. On that basis, so was Kim Jong-Un. How the Syrian problem came about Basically Qatar and Saudi wanted to build an oil/gas pipeline to West Europe through Syria and Turkey. No, it came about because Assad tried to stifle some fairly mild Arab Spring protests in Dara'a by torturing some spray-painting kids and then opening fire on the people who dared to protest that this reaction was a little bit over the top. Russian Involvement Putin has basically, as usual, played a nice strategic game. Putin wants the price of oil and gas to go up as it is important for the economy of Russia. Iran coming onstream will put downward pressure on the oil price, so if that's his motivation, he hasn't played a "nice strategic game", he's got it massively wrong. In my opinion he's there because he's a desperate relic of the cold war and wants to restore the USSR to its previous status as a superpower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tchooptip Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 I shall make a few points. Assad was a democratically elected prime minister of Syria. I have read at least one person state that the majority of people didn't vote for him and so it was not democratic. Then you can argue that 80% of the elected prime ministers are not democratically elected. Take the UK with Cameron as prime minister whom's party only got 36% of the vote. The USA basically only has a choice of two parties (virtually the same) so clearly there is a majority. I would suggest you ask any Syrian whether they were better off with asad running the country than how it became after the protests. How the Syrian problem came about Basically Qatar and Saudi wanted to build an oil/gas pipeline to West Europe through Syria and Turkey. USA corporations would have got the contract. Russia would have lost exports of oil and gas to western Europe. Asad was asked by Saudi, Qatar and US to let them build a pipe line through Syria. Asked by Saudi, then USA government. Asad said NO ! It was decided that Asad had to go as he was not co-operating, much like Egypt, Iraq and Libyan leaders. So the CIA trained up, armed and gave Saudi cash to some people to act as rebels / protesters against Syria. They started to protest but unfortunately Asad fought back (probably with Russian help) and they were unable to bring down Asad. These rebels gave up fighting Asad, but with CIA supplied equipment and Saudi money decided to call themselves ISIL and go and in effect loot Iraq. The result was that they took control of some oil fields and sold the oil and had even more money to continue. USA had left things continue because it was a satisfactory position for USA 1) Syria was in economic crisis (like they did to Egypt, Iraq and Libya) 2) USA thought the price of oil would go up meaning fracking in the USA would be competitive (break even price for oil production is a barrel of oil being US$75) 3) liked the idea of Syrians fleeing to the EC creating economic and political problems in the EC. Russian Involvement Putin has basically, as usual, played a nice strategic game. Putin wants the price of oil and gas to go up as it is important for the economy of Russia. Putin has now told the world that he is sorting out ISIL because the USA clearly cannot. The fact is that the USA doesn't want the crisis to end (read reasons given above) and this is clear from: 1) how quickly ISIL are running from Syria within one week of Russia getting involved and yet USA could not get rid of ISIL in more than three years. 2) USA and the west are not helping Russia. I would think that Putin's plan is to push ISIL into Iraq. Iraq then ask Russia and Iran help them to get rid of ISIL. Russia and Iran will then push ISIL into Saudi Arabia. ISIL may well then wipe out the Saudi king and family and Saudi will be in a mess and the rebels will control the Saudi oil. This is a win win situation for Russia as the price of oil will go up. I would think that the USA might be considering starting WW3 as this would hide the embarrassment of losing the Middle East situation and would also be a good cover up for the economic crisis / financial turmoil that may well hit the USA economy in the coming months. I do not mean I do not believe it, but it is the scariest post I have read for a long time on TV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigt3365 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 The last think the US wants is another war. It'd be a global economic disaster. But Russia seems to be pushing things. Keep the soldiers in the barracks and wars won't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tchooptip Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 The Arab Spring was great until western nations started supporting the terrorists who are now running the show. You've obviously done zero research on the Arab Spring uprisings and the brutal oppression against the protesters by the various dictators. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Civil_War The Syrian Civil War (Arabic: الحرب الأهلية السورية) is an ongoing international[74] armed conflict taking place in Syria. The unrest began in the early spring of 2011 within the context of Arab Spring protests, with nationwide protests against President Bashar al-Assad's government, whose forces responded with violent crackdowns. The conflict gradually morphed from prominent protests to an armed rebellion after months of military sieges.[75] The armed opposition consists of various groups that were formed during the course of the conflict, primarily the Free Syrian Army, which was the first to take up arms in 2011, and the Islamic Front, formed in 2013. Seems these brutal dictators were the ones responsible for creation of a bunch of terrorist organizations.... http://nsnbc.me/2015/10/01/us-complains-as-russia-bombs-its-terrorists/ Thanks for the link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Geen Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Also:"These rebels gave up fighting Assad, but with CIA supplied equipment and Saudi money decided to call themselves ISIL and go and in effect loot Iraq. The result was that they took control of some oil fields and sold the oil and had even more money to continue. USA had left things continue because it was a satisfactory position for USA1) Syria was in economic crisis (like they did to Egypt, Iraq and Libya)....implies the US had a plan and knew what they were doing when in fact they have stumbled along, clueless as to what they were doing since the first Gulf War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigt3365 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Also: "These rebels gave up fighting Assad, but with CIA supplied equipment and Saudi money decided to call themselves ISIL and go and in effect loot Iraq. The result was that they took control of some oil fields and sold the oil and had even more money to continue. USA had left things continue because it was a satisfactory position for USA 1) Syria was in economic crisis (like they did to Egypt, Iraq and Libya). ...implies the US had a plan and knew what they were doing when in fact they have stumbled along, clueless as to what they were doing since the first Gulf War. Like they did to Egypt and Libya? Really??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soalbundy Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Whatever, it seems to me that Allepo is a lousy holiday destination ought to get the TAT on to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zakk9 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 The last think the US wants is another war. It'd be a global economic disaster. But Russia seems to be pushing things. Keep the soldiers in the barracks and wars won't happen. If the last thing the US wants is war, they should stop starting wars and stop fueling existing conflicts. All wars and conflicts in the Middle East the last few decades have been started by or fueled by the US and its allies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigt3365 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 The last think the US wants is another war. It'd be a global economic disaster. But Russia seems to be pushing things. Keep the soldiers in the barracks and wars won't happen. If the last thing the US wants is war, they should stop starting wars and stop fueling existing conflicts. All wars and conflicts in the Middle East the last few decades have been started by or fueled by the US and its allies. Perhaps this will help you to more effectively figure things out: http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/03/the-confused-persons-guide-to-middle-east-conflicts/388883/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 A post with messed up quotes has been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumpel Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 WikiLeaks Reveals How the US Aggressively Pursued Regime Change in Syria, Igniting a Bloodbathhttp://www.truth-out.org/progressivepicks/item/33180-wikileaks-reveals-how-the-us-aggressively-pursued-regime-change-in-syria-igniting-a-bloodbath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIPinthailand Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 we are all broke.... who want give money to go to war...? Bush sucked all the $$$ that Clinton tried to save. now Obama is left with a debt of 18 trillion and 100 millions people who have given up working. which give a real number of over 40 percent unemployed people. the situation is a pure disaster, a ticking bomb... imagine, if the USA go to full war scale, it could bring the whole world to a recession worse than 2008 and 1929 that could escalating to a third world war with nuclear missiles. this is why the USA is doing or did nothing. the USA wanted to keep a quiet war and let people kill each over... that was the politic of Obama until Putin stepped in. now things will really change and nobody can predict what will happen in the next 2 or 3 months. many just hope they will get rid of Isis but this is exactly what Isis want. a holly war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 WikiLeaks Reveals How the US Aggressively Pursued Regime Change in Syria, Igniting a Bloodbath http://www.truth-out.org/progressivepicks/item/33180-wikileaks-reveals-how-the-us-aggressively-pursued-regime-change-in-syria-igniting-a-bloodbath Assad ignited the bloodbath when he started shooting at and bombing his own people. Let's not forget that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABCer Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) OP : "We believe that Russia has the wrong strategy" - says US. "We believe US has the wrong strategy" - says Russia. "We believe Assad must go" - says US. "We believe the Syrians must decide that" - says Russia. " Now, now, immediately!" - says US. " No, not a chance, first quash insurgency" - says Russia. " A black plague on both your houses" - says me. Just trying to be impartial. Edited October 12, 2015 by ABCer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgesAbitbol Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 WikiLeaks Reveals How the US Aggressively Pursued Regime Change in Syria, Igniting a Bloodbath http://www.truth-out.org/progressivepicks/item/33180-wikileaks-reveals-how-the-us-aggressively-pursued-regime-change-in-syria-igniting-a-bloodbath Assad ignited the bloodbath when he started shooting at and bombing his own people. Let's not forget that. Did you read the article? I highly doubt of that, otherwise you would have the true historical events successions in mind and know it didn't start by Assad "bloodbath" It started when USA and Europe backed the so called "free syrian army" which is a part of the ISIS identity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgesAbitbol Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 OP : "We believe that Russia has the wrong strategy" - says US. "We believe US has the wrong strategy" - says Russia. "We believe Assad must go" - says US. "We believe the Syrians must decide that" - says Russia. " Now, now, immediately!" - says US. " No, not a chance, first quash insurgency" - says Russia. " A black plague on both your houses" - says me. Just trying to be impartial. Assad said and said again, last time October 4th, that if it is needed he would leave, but Europe and US said they wanted a military victory... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 WikiLeaks Reveals How the US Aggressively Pursued Regime Change in Syria, Igniting a Bloodbath http://www.truth-out.org/progressivepicks/item/33180-wikileaks-reveals-how-the-us-aggressively-pursued-regime-change-in-syria-igniting-a-bloodbath Assad ignited the bloodbath when he started shooting at and bombing his own people. Let's not forget that. Did you read the article? I highly doubt of that, otherwise you would have the true historical events successions in mind and know it didn't start by Assad "bloodbath" It started when USA and Europe backed the so called "free syrian army" which is a part of the ISIS identity I am not going to argue with ignorance. Go and do some reading. http://www.newrepublic.com/article/115993/bashar-al-assad-profile-syrias-mass-murderer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigt3365 Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 WikiLeaks Reveals How the US Aggressively Pursued Regime Change in Syria, Igniting a Bloodbath http://www.truth-out.org/progressivepicks/item/33180-wikileaks-reveals-how-the-us-aggressively-pursued-regime-change-in-syria-igniting-a-bloodbath I think this article lays it out much better. Quotes from a variety of involved sources. A must read: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33997408 It's not all cut and dried as some would like to make it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) WikiLeaks Reveals How the US Aggressively Pursued Regime Change in Syria, Igniting a Bloodbath http://www.truth-out.org/progressivepicks/item/33180-wikileaks-reveals-how-the-us-aggressively-pursued-regime-change-in-syria-igniting-a-bloodbath I think this article lays it out much better. Quotes from a variety of involved sources. A must read: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33997408 It's not all cut and dried as some would like to make it. Not any more, no. But it doesn't mean that Assad should escape charges of genocide against his own people. Just like his Dad before him did. Edited October 12, 2015 by Chicog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIPinthailand Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) we have all believed in these revolutions like Muslim Springs , the truth is if you want remove a guy from his power, let his people to remove him. and even there is no guarantee there will be more peace afterwards. Edited October 14, 2015 by VIPinthailand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 It will get interesting if those 2 misslies fired at the Russian embassy in Syria turn out to be US supplied, and the fact the loonies in Saudi have declared a jihad against Russia and Assad and calling on all Sunni muslims to rise up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Off-topic posts and replies removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exsexyman Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 So the USA believes Russia has the wrong strategy in Syria. Astonishing! Russia are bombing Al Qaeda / ISIS / Islamic Jihadists, the US spent the last couple of years or so pretending to bomb them. Russia have hit many targets including several weapons and ammunition dumps. The USA's response? On Sunday night four US military cargo planes dropped 50 tonnes of ammunition to a new coalition of 'rebels'. On Sunday night four C-17 planes with fighter escorts dropped 119 pallets containing bullets and grenades to the Syrian Arab Rebels, an umbrella group of 'moderate rebels' who have miraculously sprung up in the wake of the humiliating admission that only 4 or five of the original 'moderate rebels' who were trained and armed were left. The rest defected to ISIS, taking their new found skills, weapons and ammunition with them. It cost the US taxpayers upwards of $500 million to find out that 'moderate rebels' in Syria are pretty thin on the ground. Yet overnight this latest bunch, the S A R have appeared, no doubt manufactured in Langley. They have suddenly found a group so moderate they are happy to drop them 50 tonnes of weapons and ammunition! Where would the Saudis like the next drop delivered to, the Taliban in Afghanistan perhaps?! It is quite obvious that the US are re arming their terrorist proxies who have been hit hard by the Russians. Entering Syrian airspace without permission to arm terrorists to overthrow a sovereign government is illegal and an act of war. Where are the repercussions? Where is the international condemnation? The US coalition is now openly on the same side as Islamic Jihadists/ ISIS, (that means the UK are too). So lets all cast our minds back to the youtube beheadings and say hello to our new allies. Unbelievable!! http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/12/us-airdrop-ammunition-syrian-rebels-strategy-revamp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmerjo Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 So how is it playing out so far. Exterminate all rebels in country or force them all together to fight each other near the Turkish and Iraqi borders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soalbundy Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Why not let them all kill each other and we take on the winner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 An inflammatory post has been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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