Dual-pricing in Thailand: Is it time to do away with the ‘farang tax’?

[petedk]

Went to the Pra Viharn National Park today and enjoyed fronting up to the office with my Thai ID card to pay only 40 baht. Would have been very pissed off to pay the foreigner price of 400 baht since all you can do is squint at Pra Viharn through binoculars, if it is not shrouded in cloud. Mrs Arkady is even more please about my new ability to avoid dual pricing than I am, as she no longer has to listen to my noisy protests at ticket offices and deal with my refusals to go and see waterfalls etc. I sometimes managed to pay the Thai price by showing a lifetime DL and at Mini Siam I brought my WP, having been told correctly that would result in Thai pricing. But more often than not ticket sellers stuck to their guns when I asked to pay the Thai price shown clearly in Thai numerals with nothing to suggest that it was a price for Thai citizens only.

Dual pricing is an abhorrent, degrading policy and should be stopped forthwith.

If you have a Thai ID card then you should get in at Thai prices.

[Bluespunk]

In addition, those numbers alone don't tell the full story. How many of these zero-fee tourists invest in Thailand? Who actually believes that these kind of tours have been abolished when you see the quality of the Chinese tourist invading Thailand?

Perhaps bermannor should do some actual research instead of cursory searches on Google.

Excellent series of well phrased and thought through posts.

[nontabury]

Stop being a bunch of cheap skates!

Thais on average earn 100 baht a day. What is 200 baht for us farangs??? $5US which we make in 10 minutes of work compare to a Thai its 2 days (24 hours of work).

Thailand is cheap enough where they need to fix their prices at bars and clubs cause booze is the same as back home! Totally rip off here for alcoholic beverages!!!

Do you think many Thais earn only 100 bht a day? Maybe some but not many.

How many Thai earn legally or illegally, 500,000bht + a day. Answer quite a few.

[nontabury]

I really don't care about it as I figure I make far more than the average Thai and my higher price will keep things low for poorer Thai to be able to visit the places. I lived in Boston MA USA and we have many Historical sites and although you won't be charged a different rate you will pay higher for many things. We hyave the Freedom Trail you walk to see many sites.

If a tourist buys a shirt say Boston Celtics (basket ball) or New England Patriots (football) along these routes they will probably pay $20.Those of us who live there know we can walk to shops neaby and pay only $10 for same shirts same for products sold in Fanuel Hall and restaurants there we call them tourist rip off places and know where to buy cheaper.

Boston USA has many Historical sites, surely you mean Boston U.K.

[MaeJoMTB]

petedk,

"Oh I can tip 100 Baht ... that's only XXX in my country. Maybe, but that is what has driven prices up here."

I heard that many times from low flyers in Goa during peak season. They work during summer in Europe in highly professional jobs like painters, beer garden waiters, dish washers etc. and use this money to survive in Goa during European winter but always having enough money for dope and other drugs.

They also always complain or even be aggressive when giving a generous tip with the same arguments like you use. I call them quality visitors.

I never tip anyone.

If I did, I wouldn't have enough money left for girls and beer!

Back in my home country, nobody ever gave me any tips.

Edited October 12, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[KamalaRider]

kamalarider,

you don't know what growth numbers are?

I don't want to explain to you to use your search engines on your computer.

You need a bit of effort and have to read a bit, not for somebody who is used to spoon feeding.

2 minutes and I found data on tourism in Thailand.

One example:

http://www.thaiwebsites.com/tourism.asp

Spoon feed?

I grew up very poor with only one parent working.

He was a photographer for a news paper in a small town, his salary was 500 SEK (2200 TBH) a month when I was born and they had three kids, me included.

Lived in a 1 bedroom rundown apartment, DON'T YOU ever say my life has been easy.

Two minutes more and you might had started to think for yourself and not accept public numbers so easy.

What you should do is analyze and question numbers given to you.

First you have to find out who gives you the numbers, in your case a Thai company that promotes and lives on business related to tourism in Thailand, UUHH, strike one.

Secondly, try to find out if all arrivals are considered to be tourism. UHH, strike three.

Are all Laotians, Cambodians, Philippines, Myanmars also considered to be tourists? UUHH, strike three, your out.

What about stopovers, are they also included in the statistics.

If I had more strikes to give you, I would.

I went to public school because there were NO other choice.

No money, but what my teachers taught me was to question information I get, could be that the information giver has alternate motives than to publish the truth.

Today, I'm more than grateful to my teachers throughout my years in school because they gave me the tools to spot the alternative motives behind information.

If I can't see any indication of tampering with information or I can't verify information given to me, I simply wait to form an opinion and lean towards the information given is the truth.

When it comes to the topic in hand, I DON'T trust the extra 'tax' money we farrang pay in parks and attractions goes anywhere else but to someone's pocket.

The money should be used to clean the parks but of all I have visited in the past, none were clean, right down garbage dumps at times.

Sometimes it happens that foreigners from other countries use assumptions equal to Thais, but to be honest, I never ever met a people who are using assumptions more than Thai people do and I believe it has all to do with not being able to question anything here in the LOS.

Thai people are simply not used to use their brain to distinguish between the truth and lies.

Edited October 12, 2015 by KamalaRider

[elviajero]

Your missing the point....it is a case of racial Discrimination. I am sure all the Thai luxury car drivers who visit the parks etc would share your point of view

Your point of view doesn't seem to be shared with The International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination which is a UN convention.

• Distinctions made on the basis of citizenship (that is, between citizens and non-citizens) are specifically excluded from the definition of Racial Discrimination.

They apparently can appreciate the difference, it's a shame people like you can't.

Paragraph 3 specifically states>

3. Nothing in this Convention may be interpreted as affecting in any way the legal provisions of States Parties concerning nationality, citizenship or naturalization, provided that such provisions do not discriminate against any particular nationality

​

Thailand don't discriminate against a particular country, they do them all in one sweep.

Most countries would also accept and allow people who lived in the country in question, with their wife and family for many years to become a citizen, but not Thailand.

If I cashed up 5 million Thai baht, I could become a VIP visa holder, Elite Card, but that would only be valid for 5 years or I could apply for a permanent residence.

The Thai government has set a rule that maximum 100 people per country can get Thai permanent residence status, they also state to apply you have to live in Thailand for many years and be able to speak fluent Thai but I only know a handfull of people getting it, never heard about anyone the last 5 years who got it though, must be someone out there but to my knowledge, not a single one has gotten it for years.

That's how Thailand can discriminate foreigners.

The claim was racial discrimination.

Discrimination involves unjust and prejudicial treatment. Nothing you list can be considered discrimnation.

The "Elite Card" is 500,000 baht for 5 years not 5 million, or 2 million baht for 20 years.

[elviajero]

Whatever I pay, I still think its cheap, try comparing to prices back home. If the UK government started to charge foreigners more than the its own citisens, would we complain?

Let's put it in another perspective:

If the UK government charged 10 times as much for anyone who didn't have white skin, would you complain?

Thailand's policy is based on citizenship and not skin colour.

[KamalaRider]

Your missing the point....it is a case of racial Discrimination. I am sure all the Thai luxury car drivers who visit the parks etc would share your point of view

Your point of view doesn't seem to be shared with The International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination which is a UN convention.

• Distinctions made on the basis of citizenship (that is, between citizens and non-citizens) are specifically excluded from the definition of Racial Discrimination.

They apparently can appreciate the difference, it's a shame people like you can't.

Paragraph 3 specifically states>

3. Nothing in this Convention may be interpreted as affecting in any way the legal provisions of States Parties concerning nationality, citizenship or naturalization, provided that such provisions do not discriminate against any particular nationality

​

Thailand don't discriminate against a particular country, they do them all in one sweep.

Most countries would also accept and allow people who lived in the country in question, with their wife and family for many years to become a citizen, but not Thailand.

If I cashed up 5 million Thai baht, I could become a VIP visa holder, Elite Card, but that would only be valid for 5 years or I could apply for a permanent residence.

The Thai government has set a rule that maximum 100 people per country can get Thai permanent residence status, they also state to apply you have to live in Thailand for many years and be able to speak fluent Thai but I only know a handfull of people getting it, never heard about anyone the last 5 years who got it though, must be someone out there but to my knowledge, not a single one has gotten it for years.

That's how Thailand can discriminate foreigners.

The claim was racial discrimination.

Discrimination involves unjust and prejudicial treatment. Nothing you list can be considered discrimnation.

The "Elite Card" is 500,000 baht for 5 years not 5 million, or 2 million baht for 20 years.

I did a little reading up on it and you're right, it's not 5 mill, it's 2 million THB over 20 years, with an annual fee of 20 000, but you have to reapply every 5 years for the visa + 1900 THB.

Not what I remembered since I last read upon the Elite Card.

Sorry for that, at least someone's questioning my posts with real information.

[Johnniey]

One way to lessen the outrage is to regard it as a 'Thai subsidy' rather than a 'farang tax'.

How many Thais would go to the parks and zoos and so on if they had to pay the outrageous sums we do?

It's not a subsidy. Back in 1999 it cost 20 baht for everyone to enter national parks. Then the 400 bt fee for foreigners was introduced.

No, the price was made 400 baht and locals got the discount. This happens in EVERY country in the world. I was charged $100 more than my Oz mates at the Royal Melbourne gold club. Charged more than my American friends at DIsneyworld. Get over it - the OP is way out of line and should get his facts straight.

For those who make no effort to learn how to say "take me to ......" in Thai then IMHO, they deserve to be charged more for taking up more of the taxi/tuk tuk driver's time.

[Celer et Audax]

Try Sattahip beaches that are controlled by Thai military. It doesn't matter if you have a work permit or not, you pay the 'farang" price anyway. That's what they say right in your face "You are not Thai, you pay the foreigner rate even if you pay taxes in Thailand!". Some beaches in the area are actually prohibited to foreigners, only Thai nationals with Thai IDs can enter.

Sincerely I felt that it was over the top. This is a pure widely accepted discrimination encouraged by the government.

Nang Ram beach is 20 baht for each vehicle to enter

So I can take my girlfriend and three others to that beach in my pickup and it costs 4 baht each

Thai drivers pay the same!!

It is true that some beaches around that area are closed to non Thais but that is because they are inside Thai Military bases so what's wrong with that?

Nang Ram is looked after by the Navy but is not inside a base.

[Keesters]

If ever there was a topic done to death, regurgitated again and again, this is it.

Then perhaps it is time to put dual pricing to death.

[Keesters]

Whatever I pay, I still think its cheap, try comparing to prices back home. If the UK government started to charge foreigners more than the its own citisens, would we complain?

Let's put it in another perspective:

If the UK government charged 10 times as much for anyone who didn't have white skin, would you complain?

Thailand's policy is based on citizenship and not skin colour.

It isn't. On many occasions I have been with Cambodian friends and they all got charged the Thai price.

[elviajero]

Whatever I pay, I still think its cheap, try comparing to prices back home. If the UK government started to charge foreigners more than the its own citisens, would we complain?

Let's put it in another perspective:

If the UK government charged 10 times as much for anyone who didn't have white skin, would you complain?

Thailand's policy is based on citizenship and not skin colour.

It isn't. On many occasions I have been with Cambodian friends and they all got charged the Thai price.

Thailand's policy! How individual ticket attendants deal with deciding who's a Thai and who isn't is a different matter.

[KamalaRider]

KamalaRider,

may be, just may be. that this years drop could had something to do with the political unrest in Thailand?

I wonder why you with your good connections can not explain it and your good friends also not.

So, the dual pricing system is a convenient explanation and fits perfect in this thread. You don't need facts, racism and discrimination is reason enough.

I can explain it, but I prefer to get the whole picture first and I also wait for what the government are doing to tackle the whole situation.

But as I'm not in the tourist industry myself, I'm not hit by lesser tourists but all my friends are.

Facts is all I need but they have to be true facts not just conjured facts made up by someone with alternate motives.

[hawker9000]

Thailand's policy is based on citizenship and not skin colour.

It isn't. On many occasions I have been with Cambodian friends and they all got charged the Thai price.

Thailand's policy! How individual ticket attendants deal with deciding who's a Thai and who isn't is a different matter.

It's a "policy" that invites precisely this kind of abuse. The starched shirt bureaucrat sitting in the capital can claim plausible deniability, but to the ticket-taker carrying out the "policy", it's a license to scratch that racist itch. Oh wait. Everybody knows Thais aren't racist.

[Fairynuff]

Yes this topic is done to death and until the practise stops, it always will be. The argument is simple, it's MORALLY wrong to discriminate. It is NEVER about the money which maybe as little as a few baht. Those who say they don't care, in my opinion have no self respect. I will never knowingly allow myself to be overcharged, not one baht, not a thousand baht. It isn't a discount for Thai people, it's an overcharge to non Thai people on a grand scale.

It's not about rich foreigners and poor Thais, most of my Thai friends have considerably more money than me yet would never pay more than me for a park or attraction.

It's very simple really, there is no moral or economic justification for overcharging. You ARE being cheated and ripped off and you're happy with that then the n my opinion you're a fool.

This argument is even simpler than you are suggesting, if you think the price is too high, don't pay it. If you are worried over 10 baht, you are indeed a worried man, life is too short to get upset over such trivial matters.

Like I said, a fool just doesn't get it. It's never about the 10 baht. Duh!!

Because someone sees things different to you, you insult them by calling them fools! Some people might say you are a miserly skinflint with no feelings for his fellow man.

And that person would have no idea of who I am. I say again, if you think it's ok to be ripped off, then yes, you ARE a fool. And again, try to grasp the simple concept that it's never about the money...just try...it's really not difficult!

Do you really know how patronising and condesending you are, you are using the words "ripped off" not me, and no I don't think I am being ripped off. You must really have a sad and pathetic life if you worry about somebody 'ripping you off' to the sum of 10 baht. Some people would say you need to get a life and stop insulting people who share different views to you. Duh.

It seems that you are happy to be overcharged based on your race or nationality. Fine, go for it. You also think I'm insulting you, fine but you've insulted me far more. That bothers me not a bit. My life is great. This is my last response to you for 2 reasons, you will never get it and you want the last word...fine...have it!

[Gringogazzer]

Whatever I pay, I still think its cheap, try comparing to prices back home. If the UK government started to charge foreigners more than the its own citisens, would we complain?

Let's put it in another perspective:

If the UK government charged 10 times as much for anyone who didn't have white skin, would you complain?

Thailand's policy is based on citizenship and not skin colour.

It isn't. On many occasions I have been with Cambodian friends and they all got charged the Thai price.

Have you ever seen a Thai's reaction when their nationality called into question?

I have at Bhubing Palace Chaing Mai. Oh it was a picture, threatening to sing the national anthem & calls of "do I look like farang".

I sort of understood then why they don't ask.

My wife's Laotian & just gets handed the Thai price, always without fail.

We try to avoid any dual pricing, but you can't avoid them all or what kind of life would that be.

[MaeJoMTB]

Thailand's policy is based on citizenship and not skin colour.

If you attempt to enter a Thai national park

and have a white face or a black face you are asked to pay foreigner price.

If you have a brown face (and keep your mouth shut) you are asked to pay Thai price.

Nobody in the ticket booths ever asks to see ID of nationality or citizenship.

You know this, so I have to ask, what's wrong with you?

Why do you keep attempting to deflect the discussion away from racism?

When the entrance price you are asked to pay depends on your race.

Edited October 12, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[KamalaRider]

Paragraph 3 specifically states>

3. Nothing in this Convention may be interpreted as affecting in any way the legal provisions of States Parties concerning nationality, citizenship or naturalization, provided that such provisions do not discriminate against any particular nationality

​

Thailand don't discriminate against a particular country, they do them all in one sweep.

Most countries would also accept and allow people who lived in the country in question, with their wife and family for many years to become a citizen, but not Thailand.

If I cashed up 5 million Thai baht, I could become a VIP visa holder, Elite Card, but that would only be valid for 5 years or I could apply for a permanent residence.

The Thai government has set a rule that maximum 100 people per country can get Thai permanent residence status, they also state to apply you have to live in Thailand for many years and be able to speak fluent Thai but I only know a handfull of people getting it, never heard about anyone the last 5 years who got it though, must be someone out there but to my knowledge, not a single one has gotten it for years.

That's how Thailand can discriminate foreigners.

The claim was racial discrimination.

Discrimination involves unjust and prejudicial treatment. Nothing you list can be considered discrimnation.

The "Elite Card" is 500,000 baht for 5 years not 5 million, or 2 million baht for 20 years.

How can you turn racial discrimination to me?

*Discrimination involves unjust and prejudicial treatment. Nothing you list can be considered discrimnation.*

I'm faced with unjust and prejudicial treatment on a regular basis here in the land of non racists.

Of course I have complaints about Thais, but I have said before in my posts that I believe it has to do with inefficient schooling and the dominant culture of state oppression.

[elviajero]

Thailand's policy is based on citizenship and not skin colour.

It isn't. On many occasions I have been with Cambodian friends and they all got charged the Thai price.

Thailand's policy! How individual ticket attendants deal with deciding who's a Thai and who isn't is a different matter.

It's a "policy" that invites precisely this kind of abuse. The starched shirt bureaucrat sitting in the capital can claim plausible deniability, but to the ticket-taker carrying out the "policy", it's a license to scratch that racist itch. Oh wait. Everybody knows Thais aren't racist.

Of course some Thais are racist. As are some nationals of every country on earth. But the policy itself isn't.

Unless they start to insist that only those presenting a Thai ID get the Thai price a certain amount of discretion must be given to attendants. That's dodgy ground because it would be discriminatory to deny a Thai their right as a citizen to the citizen price because they don't have ID.

I'm at a loss when people like yourself want to make this a racial issue. You have a very narrow viewpoint.

[rotorbreeze]

Please let me know if I am mistaken, aside from Tourists, but regarding Foreigners who live here, do you not pay the Thai price if you show a Thai driving license or yellow book?

I my case ,yes show your Thai Driver's license and smile and make like you expect the Thai price...this works as my Austrian lady paid full price...I also got a free T shirt after my payment of Flight of the Gibbon...nice to be recognized.

I also commented I will be more foreign ladies to experience the facilities as I was recognized as a good marketing tool!

Edited October 12, 2015 by metisdead
Oversize font reset to normal. Please use Arial font, size 14 when posting.

[elviajero]

Paragraph 3 specifically states>

3. Nothing in this Convention may be interpreted as affecting in any way the legal provisions of States Parties concerning nationality, citizenship or naturalization, provided that such provisions do not discriminate against any particular nationality

​

Thailand don't discriminate against a particular country, they do them all in one sweep.

Most countries would also accept and allow people who lived in the country in question, with their wife and family for many years to become a citizen, but not Thailand.

If I cashed up 5 million Thai baht, I could become a VIP visa holder, Elite Card, but that would only be valid for 5 years or I could apply for a permanent residence.

The Thai government has set a rule that maximum 100 people per country can get Thai permanent residence status, they also state to apply you have to live in Thailand for many years and be able to speak fluent Thai but I only know a handfull of people getting it, never heard about anyone the last 5 years who got it though, must be someone out there but to my knowledge, not a single one has gotten it for years.

That's how Thailand can discriminate foreigners.

The claim was racial discrimination.

Discrimination involves unjust and prejudicial treatment. Nothing you list can be considered discrimnation.

The "Elite Card" is 500,000 baht for 5 years not 5 million, or 2 million baht for 20 years.

How can you turn racial discrimination to me?

*Discrimination involves unjust and prejudicial treatment. Nothing you list can be considered discrimnation.*

I'm faced with unjust and prejudicial treatment on a regular basis here in the land of non racists.

Of course I have complaints about Thais, but I have said before in my posts that I believe it has to do with inefficient schooling and the dominant culture of state oppression.

You're not quoting the full discussion. I was replying to claim of racial discrimination and you replied to me but on the subject of discrimination.

[elviajero]

Thailand's policy is based on citizenship and not skin colour.

If you attempt to enter a Thai national park

and have a white face or a black face you are asked to pay foreigner price.

If you have a brown face (and keep your mouth shut) you are asked to pay Thai price.

Nobody in the ticket booths ever asks to see ID of nationality or citizenship.

You know this, so I have to ask, what's wrong with you?

Why do you keep attempting to deflect the discussion away from racism?

When the entrance price you are asked to pay depends on your race.

If you don't understand the difference between race and nationality then you probably shouldn't be commenting.

• What are the chances that someone with a white or black face is Thai and what is wrong with them being asked to pay the correct fee for their nationality?
• What are the chances that someone with a brown face and the appearance of a Thai is a Thai and how does it affect you if the occasional Thai looking non Thai gets through?

They do ask for ID sometimes. My Thai wife was asked last year because the attendant didn't believe she was Thai due to her accent. She's lived with me too long!

[Bernard Flint]

Thai driving license cures most problems

[Gringogazzer]

Thai driving license cures most problems

Death general does after driving on Thai roads...

[MaeJoMTB]

What are the chances that someone with a white or black face is Thai

Quite high, my son is Thai but has white skin and red hair.

[KamalaRider]

Thai driving license cures most problems

Not anymore, have Thai DL and WP.

They ask me now on every park or attraction so I stopped going all together.

***Edited, should have been***

They charge me farrang price now on every park or attraction so I stopped going all together.​

Edited October 12, 2015 by KamalaRider

[elviajero]

What are the chances that someone with a white or black face is Thai

Quite high, my son is Thai but has white skin and red hair.

LOL. Nice try but I doubt there are many white skinned, red haired Thai citizens.

[nontabury]

Thailand's policy is based on citizenship and not skin colour.

If you attempt to enter a Thai national park

and have a white face or a black face you are asked to pay foreigner price.

If you have a brown face (and keep your mouth shut) you are asked to pay Thai price.

Nobody in the ticket booths ever asks to see ID of nationality or citizenship.

You know this, so I have to ask, what's wrong with you?

Why do you keep attempting to deflect the discussion away from racism?

When the entrance price you are asked to pay depends on your race.

If you don't understand the difference between race and nationality then you probably shouldn't be commenting.

• What are the chances that someone with a white or black face is Thai and what is wrong with them being asked to pay the correct fee for their nationality?
• What are the chances that someone with a brown face and the appearance of a Thai is a Thai and how does it affect you if the occasional Thai looking non Thai gets through?

They do ask for ID sometimes. My Thai wife was asked last year because the attendant didn't believe she was Thai due to her accent. She's lived with me too long!

Last year I visited a national park, in our party was a Thai born girl, of Thai parents. She had been adopted as a baby by a Swedish couple, and afterwards had spent her entire life in Sweden, speaking only Swedish and English and only having a Swedish passport. However she did of course look Thai and therefore was only charged the Thai price, while I of course look non Thai and was expected to pay 10 X more for my admission. I just walked away after my Thai wife had told the attendant what she thought of this racial discrimination.