Advice on divorcing a Thai wife - getting custody of my 8 year old son

[ukchap]

Hi I was hoping to get some advice on the process for getting a divorce and how I would go about and the likelihood of getting custody of my 8 year old son.

A little history, I married my Thai wife 10 years ago and without going into to much detail I found out a few things that has been going on behind my back so made the tough decision to divorce and unfortunately it looks like its not going to be amicable.

Some info.

Im from the UK but our marriage is not registered in the UK, we only have a Thai marriage certificate.

I have an 8 year old son that I would like to get custody off.

I don't own any property in Thailand

we are not based in Thailand currently but my wife/son will be going back fairly soon.

I own property in the UK.

I ma not working.

My first priority is to try and get custody of my son and move back to the UK .

- Has anyone got any advice on how to go about this or experienced something similar and managed to get custody of a child?

My Second priority is get divorced asap without being taken to the cleaners. Ill obviously need to see a lawyer but wouldn't mind getting an understanding/ advice on the process?

- As I only have a Thai marriage cert is there anything in need to do in the UK?

- Would my divorce be based on Thai law?

In terms of finances, I owned my UK property and have a pension before meeting my wife, how much would she be entitled to?

Thanks in advance for any help.

[tonray]

I would think the first thing you can do is engage the servies of a Thai Law firm.

The second is to vigorously document any instances of behavior that would classify her as an unfit mother.

Good Luck

[robertthebruce]

Definetly get in touch with a ''Thai Lawyer'', and for sure, anything that your wife has been up to behind your back, that you can prove, in any shape or form, keep that noted, as it will be handy for the future, when the Lawyer gets down to the nitty grittys..

Hope it works out in your favour, all the best, for sure its a difficult time for you...

[prakhonchai nick]

Been there-done that

First as said above engage a lawyer.

As regards custody, it is extremely difficult to gain custody, when there is a Thai mother. In my case the mother had been missing for 5 years, and it took a separate court case involving my then 15 year old daughter, to gain custody, despite my having had unofficial custody for the previous 5 years.

Normally the mother would have had to have committed a serious crime or be mentally unstable for the court to grant custody to a foreign father.

[maprao]

Don't let her leave the UK with your son. I understand from your post you are all currently in the UK.

[SOTIRIOS]

...firstly do not let her take your son with her...duhh...

[GOLDBUGGY]

Definetly get in touch with a ''Thai Lawyer'', and for sure, anything that your wife has been up to behind your back, that you can prove, in any shape or form, keep that noted, as it will be handy for the future, when the Lawyer gets down to the nitty grittys..

Hope it works out in your favour, all the best, for sure its a difficult time for you...

Your Wife sleeping with the entire Foot Ball Team has no bearing on whether the Courts will decide if she is a good mother or not. Abandoning the child or failing to look after him/her will. You might get sympathy from the Courts for being unfaithful, and this is grounds for Divorce, but if you have a child in her custody, you will still have to pay Child Support.

If you want this child, your only course of action is to try and make some deal with your wife. If she refuses to give him up, you are pretty well sunk, and stuck with child support payments for 10 more years.

If you do go for a Divorce then Thailand would be easier to do and cheaper. With your property in the UK, and Income, I wouldn't trust them to give you a fair settlement. If you fight htis against your wife's wishes expect this to be expensive and to go on for years, Why bother if you are in nor rush. Just let it ride.

[whatproblem]

The best thing to do is in Thailand go to the amphur with wife and give her money to sign custody to you ,offer in the region of 100,000 because it will cost you that with a Thai lawyer and most of them can't be trusted.remember if you give her money to do this ,job done ,if you pay lawyer it is hit and miss.good luck .make sure that you let your child speak to mum and mum speak to son ,this is good for them both

[gemguy]

Not my area of expertise so I will only say one thing.

SERIOUSLY: Be prepared for a whole lot of skullduggery on her part and or her family members and or her friends and or any lawyer she may retain.

skul·dug·ger·y

ˌskəlˈdəɡ(ə)rē/

noun

noun: skullduggery

1. underhanded or unscrupulous behavior; trickery.

   "a firm that investigates commercial skulduggery"

   synonyms: trickery, fraudulence, underhandedness, chicanery;

   informalshenanigans,funny business, monkey business, monkeyshines

   "Yvonne found herself entangled in the skulduggery of Gregor's private business deals"

[affen02]

The best and fastest way to do a thai divorce is to get your wife to agree that it is in your sons best interest that he stay with you, about the money property etc, make a deal for this as well. I know this probably do not help in your situation, but think how much you will save in lawyer and court fees. If you both agree on terms and custody the divorce can be done in half an hour at the Ampur, its even free. If the wife agree about custody, the Ampur will there and then give custody to you, you will need one witness each. You will be given a divorce license and a docment on things u agree on, custody etc. which you get translated to english and the thai foreign department will stamp the docments for you. I would think with the lawyer and court fees, maybe case going on for several years, the cost of this will be pretty high, so in my opinion, if possible, make a deal with your wife. If not, good luck in the fight for your child.

[malcoml]

You are in the UK so don't let your son leave the UK.

If your wife takes your son to Thailand you chance of success will be so much less.

I just dropped my child's Passports to my solicitors office as my wife goes into crazy rages and I don't want her leaving Australia with my son.

[fred Kubasa]

Appears to me you don't HAVE to do anything and have amost all your ducks,

but one, in a row. I have several friends went thru custody battles, causing

a lot of grief/time/money and those men who won, regretted, for many years

being mom/dad to their youngsters.

[wooloomooloo]

Its only a Thai regisration and in western country is not valid unless you registered it there.

Sorry, but that's incorrect. A Thai marriage is recognised under UK law, registered or not.

I also understand that the OP is not presently in the UK, though the OP is welcome to correct me.

[Expat1]

You are making much ado about very little. No offense intended. If you are in fact in the UK and you are the legal father/guardian of the child (especially if you have UK documentation to that effect) then contact the authorities about it and if need be, engage a local UK attorney to seek an injunction to keep your ladyfriend from absconding with the boy. It is not that difficult. I am aware the UK has almost gone Amer-maniac about women having all the family rights but, that is not the case, as yet, in the UK.

[louse1953]

I would think the first thing you can do is engage the servies of a Thai Law firm.

The second is to vigorously document any instances of behavior that would classify her as an unfit mother.

Good Luck

Forget Thailand,as you have nothing to lose here.Uk is where it's all gunna happen and your wife will be well in the know about this.Prepared to be skinned.

[wooloomooloo]

- Would my divorce be based on Thai law?

Yes, if you get divorced in Thailand.

If you get divorced in the UK, it will be based on UK law.

[ukchap]

Hello , thanks for all the replies , just one thing I forgot to add , although I'm from the UK I am living in canada .

[MaeJoMTB]

Find an excuse to take your son to the UK.

Then stay there.

In Canada you have no chance.

[wooloomooloo]

OP, I would imagine it would be easier on your pocket to get divorced in LOS, though that entirely depends on what your wife is willing to accept as settlement by way of hard cash.

In the UK, your wife will almost certainly be entitled to 50% of everything, including your pension. Your UK property is also at risk.

[NickJ]

Do whatever you can to make it amicable. When he gets here you will have very little chance at getting custody. I tend to agree that getting a lawyer here will only serve to seperate you from a lot of money.Sure if you lived here and she was a bar girl and pawning the kid off on grandparents to raise her while she works there is a chance. But just getting her to the right judge will be a feat in itself.

[Expat1]

Well, Thai women are always turning up in suit cases. Just a thought. (Sorry, I know this is in bad taste but, cud not resist.)

[jerome2]

I did it.. no contest no lawyer share the 2 cars the boy .with me the house for me but still her name...made in the divorce office...they aranged the lawyer sign i think immediately...1 h done include evrything

only if she agree you can do it..you have no right i think here

[Autonuaq]

Hi

As you know or should know all is depending on the individual situation.

having brought this to your attention you have to look after a few things and prepare before you go to see the Lawyer.

You need one or more laywers as well other experts because you will get war with wife and the next 5 to 10 years see a lot of court rooms and problem till your son is 21.

.

i made for you a few sections

the first is about the marriage

the second is about the Custody

the third is about the right of a child

1 - Marriage

I am not know the exact events that took place, how your are married, and how things went in your case. Regardless what everyone tell you, you will need a Lawyer. One who know International law, Thai law and the Local law that applies to your residence

between Thailand and many counties there is the The Hague Convention on Celebration and Recognition of the Validity of Marriages or Hague Marriage Convention is a multilateral treaty developed by the Hague Conference on Private International Law that provides the recognition of marriages.

http://www.hcch.net/index_en.php?act=conventions.text&cid=88

In general this tell that the Thai marriage is recognized in the other country is if you have been married to the Thai law and provided the official documents Kor Ror 2 and Kor Ror 3. These where provided when you married at the Amphur.

the you have to look at if there was made a choice of rights when you moved over the the Canada. If not after 10 years after entering the country of residential not the previous (in your case probably Thai law) applies anymore but the law of the country resident in after 10 years. Unless you did made and file the choice of rights that apply to the marriage in the correct way for each country you have you register as the country you life in (as in immigrated to).

also about the asset you both have and the other things that come before and during the marriage.

If your wife and you are registered in the Canada and she also has dual citizen ship by being also barrier of the passport you have than it is probably a possible possible to arrange all in The Canada.

If you start the procedure and she informed about it in the correct way then you do probably have the advantage of having the separation procedure in Canadian court.

As mentioned the best is to go to a lawyer, get advise and start in the Canada by filing the separation to the court in the Canada.

(assuming Canada is your country of residence and you are British Citizen)

Custody

-In General-

Under Thai law when you are married to the mother and the child is yours you will get automatically custody over you child when the child has not father registered. Although the marriage document provided by the Thai Marriage according to the Thai law KOr Ror 2 and/or Kor Ror 3 are normally enough to register (automatically) Custody.

which in general implies that you are having custody if you are married officially by the Thai law.

if you not registered your marriage that is a legal Thai marriage according to the Thai law, you probably can get a penalty since your records in the government system are not correct.

If you have custody if is nearly impossible to has your son of 8 to leave the country without your or her permission.

If possible you have to find a way to secure the passport of your son so it is more difficult to ttravel for him.

Make a report tot he police and the other authorities that you expect possible International Child Abduction of your son and go tho the authorities for help.

see more on this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hague_Convention_on_the_Civil_Aspects_of_International_Child_Abduction

2nd you can look into the Custody rules of your country and if possible you can file for Custody.

Probably you need DNA samples, if so only go to the recognized government locations for DNA determination

Based on what you write in your case you probably will need a court order..

(International) Child Abduction

Based on the laws of the place and country where you residence one is not allowed to take a child without the people who have custody.

Meaning your wife is not allowed when you forbid as well you are not allowed when she forbid all within the reason of the event of course.

she ca not traveler without your permission without your son as well as you not can for all that is not belonging to the normal part of the life and activities of your son and you and your wife agreed on that should happen with him.

Make a report to the police and the other authorities that you expect possible International Child Abduction of your son and go tho the authorities for help.

see more on this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hague_Convention_on_the_Civil_Aspects_of_International_Child_Abduction

The sooner you report possible abduction of your son the higher the changes to be able to have your son not leaving the country.

the procedure to report the international child abduction are in general to have a police report and then send that tho the Central Authorities of your Country of Residence, There is a special division that has contact with all the other counties for cases like this and probably they can catch your Son at the airport or the border when entering Thailand if he is outside your country of residence.

Right of the Child,

Each child has the right on free on on his terms and conditions contact with his parents. Has right to create it own image, vision and view on this parents and the world around them. Has the right to grow up in an protected environment that makes it possible for him to become a stable adolescence who van self reflect and able to earn his income.

before you start all please evaluate what is the best for your son and is the best of his interest.

you and his mother had a good time and loved each other in such a way that you wanted to have your son with her.

probably it can be the best that he lives and grow up with his mother and you his father.

a father he sees regularly, as for example a sailor who works abroad on a ship and comes every so many months. and spent the time when is there dedicated to his son. or the other way around for the mother.

Why?

your son not asked you or his mom to start fighting and have a war.,

He just want to see you and his mother.

Did you ever think about that you and his mother have to think and act in interest of your SON and nothing else. That is his right that you and his mother are probably violating? There are people who stayed together because of this there children where old enough (20) and then went there own way.

Al lot of wisdom and good luck.

[BORRISGOODENUF]

Be very careful how you go about all this, firstly every thing in Thailand has a price and your son is in extreme danger of becoming a comodity. AS for me I would not seek legal advice till you know that it is absolutely compulsory. Aproach this issue extremely carefully too. I seeked legal advice for my devorce, my legal advisor sent papers to her and ended up acting for both of us, un known to me a tthe time. I was pretty well skimmed. Try very hard to discuss the matter with your wife and as You don't have any great assets, make a reasonable offer. As for your property in the Uk, I don't think she can have any claim over your propert there.

goos luck!!

[wooloomooloo]

As for your property in the Uk, I don't think she can have any claim over your propert there.

If she is a British citizen or has any UK immigration status and the divorce takes place in the UK, I think you'll find that the wife has a very significant claim on the OP's property. Particularly, as they have an eight year old child together.

[nithisa78]

marriage counselor.

[billphillips]

In Thai divorce law, only assets jointly purchased during the marriage are divided equally. Individual assets that pre-date the marriage are not included.

In UK divorce law, all assets (regardless of when obtained) are divided and not equally. The larger share goes to the custodian of the kids. It's heavily loaded towards the woman's benefit, as is child custody.

Get divorced in Thailand. You don't need a lawyer, you can both go and sign a paper and it's done. Give her money to gain her cooperation and custody of the kid, lots of it. If you let her do it in the UK ... you will be cleaned out and stitched up for life.

Good luck.

[ozyjon]

Quote

Prepared to be skinned.

- not necessarily-

In Australia there is the defacto law, if you live with someone for more

than 2 years as man and wife you can be technically married BUT also

as far as property / money / assets, ''she only has claim on assets

acquired from when the relationship started'' all previous assets belong

to you, thanks to all the Filipinas that turned that scam into an art form

in the 70's, the courts saw the flaw and changed the law.

[wooloomooloo]

Quote

Prepared to be skinned.

- not necessarily-

In Australia there is the defacto law, if you live with someone for more

than 2 years as man and wife you can be technically married BUT also

as far as property / money / assets, ''she only has claim on assets

acquired from when the relationship started'' all previous assets belong

to you, thanks to all the Filipinas that turned that scam into an art form

in the 70's, the courts saw the flaw and changed the law.

Interesting gen but, unfortunately, of little assistance to the OP.

[jacksam]

I may get some criticism over the following, but anyway.

Have you considered what's in the child's best interest. We farang in the main seem to think that the child is far better off we us and living in farang world.

One thing I'm jealous of about thai, Vietnamese etc is their very strong family ties. OP , you mention that your on a pension , and living in Canada . Can you afford to raise your child living in the UK?

Ultimately what is in the best interest of the child.

Might seem harsh but if your wife wishes to live in los, it might be best to come to an arrangement where you have good access. As for the divorce why rush. Yes understand you would like to be done with her but divorce or not makes little difference. Take your time.

Paying her something might assist in the access arrangements. If your long term plan is to live in UK or Canada your pretty much done. IMHO.

Also you did not mention your age. Family network in UK etc. As for anything related to her faithfulness. Not important. What is important is if she is a sound and reliable mother. If she has typical thai family network then that's another big tick.