British grandfather facing 360 lashes in Saudi Arabia for making wine

[bendejo]

I hate it when people say 'You don't need alcohol to have fun.'

You don't need shoes to run, but it <deleted!> helps..............................................

One of my pet peeves regarding any sort of intoxication, "I don't need that stuff, I'm high on life!"

What a crock!

[bendejo]

Money money money, its a rich mans world.

Isn't there a TVF rule against quoting Abba? If not, there should be.

[thaibeachlovers]

I hate it when people say 'You don't need alcohol to have fun.'

You don't need shoes to run, but it <deleted!> helps..............................................

If one needs alcohol, one shouldn't work in Saudi.

It is awash with the stuff. Easier to get a drink there than here. However most is homemade and quality varies.

I was there and I know that. Which is why I said "if one NEEDS alcohol"

[bartender100]

Saudis such nice people they treat women with so much respect!!!!!

Worst race of people on this planet, unfortunately with the most money, one day I hope they crawl into the sand pits they came out of before oil was so important and made them powerful. Their day will come

[thaibeachlovers]

(Nested quotes removed to comply with forum software)

I think he (transam)is saying that the Saudi's (who drink alcohol in other countries) are hypocrites which they are

Cannabis is illegal in the UK.

Many Brits travel to The Netherlands where they can legally partake of cannabis.

Are they, gandalf12, in your opinion, hypocrites as well?

Those Brits don't have a religion that they claim to live by that says it is a sin to use alcohol etc.

Good point.

I guess one of my Jewish friends who enjoys the occasional bacon sandwich must be a hypocrite, too!

Depends on whether he would enforce the edict on other people. If he doesn't personally think it's a sin, he wouldn't be a hypocrite.

I wouldn't trust a Saudi in SA to look the other way on alcohol, even if they get drunk on every occasion when out of the country, which is why most of us that have been there think they are hypocrites.

[thaibeachlovers]

I hate it when people say 'You don't need alcohol to have fun.'

You don't need shoes to run, but it <deleted!> helps..............................................

If one needs alcohol, one shouldn't work in Saudi.

I enjoy a drink, but I don't need it. I've had plenty of fun at parties etc. when I've been the driver and so not drunk any alcohol.

If one needs alcohol, one has a problem!

So that's the problem with 75% of the world. At last, we have some clarity, on how to finally get humanity sober, for once. Apparently that's what all the current Islamic State insanity is all about? Anti-Alcoholism! Wow! Thanks for your insight

I don't get your post. If one NEEDS alcohol one is an alcoholic, ergo one has a problem.

[Naam]

Well, ironically (more than deliberately, I dare say), the UK government has just cancelled a prison officer training agreement with the Saudis.

that'll teach them Saudis a lesson!

[Naam]

better stay in the western world nowadays to avoid the savages .

Why do people in this day and age still work or go on holiday to a Muslim country?

Their brains did not even reach the airport.

i am one of these brainless people who, accompanied by my wife, spends every year 10-12 very relaxing days with Saudi friends in Jeddah. next time, around mid december, i will tell them that they are bloody hypocrites when i share a nice bottle (or two) of Portwine with them.

[Naam]

Latest update is that the lashes have been canceled. Phew!

lashes based on alcohol are always cancelled when the guilty person is a westerner.

[geriatrickid]

This man has brought this problem onto his own head.

Allegedly he has lived/worked in Saudi for 25 years so he should know what the "rules" are.

The Saudis are remarkably tolerant of Western lifestyles as long as it is kept within the gated compounds where most expats live.

By transporting alcohol he knowingly broke Saudi Law.

Well done - defending Laws dated back to the stoneage ... Its wine for God sake, its not like he forced a 9 year old girl to marry him ... ups, forgot thats okay in Saudi

It is Saudi Arabia and the country is a strict Islamic state. If you cannot accept the local laws and culture do not go to Saudi Arabia and flout their laws. What is so difficult to comprehend? The guilty party was in full agreement with those laws as he willingly worked in Saudi Arabia for 25 years and had a grand old time.

[Credo]

He shouldn't be wining about it.

[vogie]

Money money money, its a rich mans world.

Isn't there a TVF rule against quoting Abba? If not, there should be.

Does your mother know?

[soalbundy]

This man has brought this problem onto his own head.

Allegedly he has lived/worked in Saudi for 25 years so he should know what the "rules" are.

The Saudis are remarkably tolerant of Western lifestyles as long as it is kept within the gated compounds where most expats live.

By transporting alcohol he knowingly broke Saudi Law.

Well done - defending Laws dated back to the stoneage ... Its wine for God sake, its not like he forced a 9 year old girl to marry him ... ups, forgot thats okay in Saudi

It is Saudi Arabia and the country is a strict Islamic state. If you cannot accept the local laws and culture do not go to Saudi Arabia and flout their laws. What is so difficult to comprehend? The guilty party was in full agreement with those laws as he willingly worked in Saudi Arabia for 25 years and had a grand old time.

I think he has just rescinded his agreement

[soalbundy]

He shouldn't be wining about it.

and he should stop whining as well

[fang37]

Where can I book a ticket for this event?

[happy Joe]

British ...

... making wine.

This information seems to me very strange.

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been removed as well as a post using a foreign language.

[Soutpeel]

Money money money, its a rich mans world.

Isn't there a TVF rule against quoting Abba? If not, there should be.

Yes and offenders should be stoned

[Ace of Pop]

I hate it when people say 'You don't need alcohol to have fun.'

You don't need shoes to run, but it f***ing helps..............................................

If one needs alcohol, one shouldn't work in Saudi.

I enjoy a drink, but I don't need it. I've had plenty of fun at parties etc. when I've been the driver and so not drunk any alcohol.

If one needs alcohol, one has a problem!

. Lord it's Hard to be Humble

[hugh2121]

I hate it when people say 'You don't need alcohol to have fun.'

You don't need shoes to run, but it <deleted!> helps..............................................

If one needs alcohol, one shouldn't work in Saudi.

If one bans alcohol, one shouldn't recruit from Europe etc.

[soalbundy]

Money money money, its a rich mans world.

Isn't there a TVF rule against quoting Abba? If not, there should be.

Yes and offenders should be stoned

they probably are

[vogie]

Money money money, its a rich mans world.

Isn't there a TVF rule against quoting Abba? If not, there should be.

Yes and offenders should be stoned

And if its any consilation, I was stoned last night, fricking Red Label.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Islam is a religion of peace and we must respect their cultural norms.

[soalbundy]

Islam is a religion of peace and we must respect their cultural norms.

Let's have a whip round, i'll drink to that

[7by7]

<snip>

We expect foreigners in our countries to abide by our laws and to suffer the consequences if they break any of them.

That's just the trouble, we don't, there is always a PC apologist making excuses for their ''different culture'' and we should understand the primitives

Really?

Perhaps you will provide some examples of foreigners, visitors or immigrants, being excused law breaking by the authorities in a Western country and therefore escaping prosecution and punishment due to their different culture or any other reason.

I cant quote actual cases, however i do remember in the past that muslim fathers savagely beating their daughters for being too westernised were let off lightly in the courts in England because of liberal tendencies to ''understand the culture''. In Germany a Pakistani stabbed his wife to death for having a lover,he said he ought to be tried in Pakistan where he would only get a few months jail, his defence lawyer also argued that the German court should be lenient due to the different cultures, he was jailed for a considerable time but 'the different cultures'' were a mitigating factor. I doubt much has changed in the years that have passed.

Can't have looked very hard! There's this case, for example.

Muslim father beat daughter, 14 with tennis racket for relationship with white boy

The 21 week sentence, suspended for two years, seems far to lenient to me; but I can't find any evidence that his different culture was considered in setting such a light sentence.

Having a different culture certainly played no part in the ridiculously lenient sentence in this case; Man who was badly beaten condemns 'joke justice' after attacker gets off with £400 fine

What you call PC and liberal tendencies toward different cultures also played no part in this man yet again escaping prison; Career crook with over 160 offences dodges jail AGAIN

[fang37]

Here a lash, there a lash. Everywhere a lash lash.

I'm ready to watch the oldie screaming in pain.

[wow64]

Nothing new here... Have been whipped many times after a few too many drinks..

[Humphrey Bear]

I don;t think he was transporting wine in his car. He was making wine and selling it to Saudis which is a whole other thing. Saudis don't mind westerners drinking and making home brew in their compounds, but they draw a line at selling it to Saudis. This guy has been there for 25 years. He is past working age and is making lots of money brewing and selling alcohol to Saudis. He knew the risks and took them to make large amounts of money. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. I live here in Thailand, I respect the laws of the country whether I agree with them or not. No-one forced me to live here. Same with this guy, who does he think he is flouting the law then complaining when he's caught. Thrash him hard, I say.

Having made five separate tours in Saudi, each of about 2 1/2 years, I would have a couple more comments.

The man must have had a Saudi sponsor - not just his employer, but possibly a different sponsor who had influence to make sure the guy could manufacture his wine on a (local) commercial scale, and took a cut of the profits.

Alternatively, the guy was a mug, distributing the stuff for someone who was 'insured'.

I lived a lot of the time in compounds, and the rule was 'Never let the stuff pass the gates'. Also on two compounds we had a 'guest house' near the gates where drunken visitors were bedded down for the night, 'til they sobered up.

I had employees in trouble for many reasons - the Saudi authorities always came to my liaison officer, who came to me, and the employees were sacked and sent home within 24 hours. This guy must be a serial offender, or have upset his 'sponsor', to have been caught and punished like this. (At 74 years old he was probably becoming a pain in the backside - he should have left years before).

[Humphrey Bear]

There seems to be something missing in many of the posts and that is they have laws and they enforce them. Most of the posts appear to be taking the line "it is just drink". How many of the people posting here know the reason for alcohol being banned in Saudi? I bet not many if any and it has nothing to do the Sharia law

In the Q'ran, as in the Old Testament, the injunction is 'not to get drunk'.

However, in later years, while alcohol was still permitted under Islamic Law, the joys of coffee were discovered by the Omani, Yemeni and Bahraini traders who sailed to Africa to pick up their cargoes of slaves and other goods. They brought the magic beans back to their home ports and tried to make a business of it. Things didn't go too well until they persuaded their religious leaders that coffee was a good thing - alcohol a bad thing. Thus alcohol was banned completely and remains so until this day.

I tend to agree with them. I am drinking some Arabica coffee at this moment. I seldom drink alcohol (though I used to!!).

[Humphrey Bear]

Yep. What do all the Saudi princes do when they get to Las Vegas in their private jets? Play mahjong, drink tea, and socialize with modestly dressed escorts whom they send home by 10PM so that they can go to bed early and maintain their celibacy? Oh, and pray 5 times a day in the middle of the casino to demonstrate their piousness. I'm sure that's what they do. If they didn't, they'd surely get 5000 lashes when they returned to the land of sand, oil, whips, severed hands and death by stoning. Very modern in a 13th century sort of way.

Not all the Saudi princes. Remember that King Saud had 27 sons (I think - I may be one or two out) and they have each had several sons. (Daughters aren't counted in this).

I recall in my early days in Saudi that one of the sons, who was a senior minister at the time, had to go to the US for a conference. In his hotel room was a TV set. He had not seen TV, as it was not allowed in Saudi until around 1990, as I recall. So he switched it on to see what all the fuss was about and was horrified to see unveiled women presenting and acting in shows. Also adverts showing people drinking alcohol. He cancelled his visit, flew home and reported to his brother the King (Fuad or Khaled, can't remember) that the US was Satan's Kingdom. This was about the time Raytheon were thrown out of Saudi, maybe an unrelated incident.