Reclaiming retirement Visa Funds

[Listener]

This should be of interest of many who have funds on deposit as per Immigartion requirments for either marriage or retirement Visa.

I have asked about this previously at Kasikorn and was told the proceedure is easy all that would be required is a letter from the court.

A friend of mine recently died and his wife went to Bangkok Bank to ask about refund and was told to bring aletter from the court.

She approached a court appointed lawyer who said this would be the case but there were several proceedures to go through.

First she would have to get a form (court supplied) and send to any living relatives in country of origin and they would have to declare they had no interest in the estate. On receipt of this signed form back in Thailand this would be posted in a court house to give anyone else a right to claim against themonies to be released . This would be posted for a period of 90 days.

The wife can then go to the court and ask for the.money to be released to her.

In the meantime this lady will have no access to the funds withon the account.

Any info or experiences on this subject would be appreciated

[OMGImInPattaya]

Were they legally married? My understanding of Thai law is the wife has first claim on any of her husband's assets after death. Maybe all this is necessary because the marrii wasn't formalized.

[lopburi3]

That sounds like a normal procedure - the account is held in retiree name only so probate type action would likely be required. Just as payout of Thai spouse funds would include payments to Thai family as well as spouse.

If this is a concern for 9 months of the year the funds could be in another account as only 3 months is required for retirement extension. Another factor to limit the amount would be to use combination of pension and bank account to lower the amount required in account.

[meatboy]

sounds like he never made a WILL.

[fey]

This is my worst nightmare and one reason I don't plan on depositing said funds when and if the time comes.

I suspect such funds typically goto the thai government or thai women looking to collect rather then the deceased estate as they should. Like a retirement tax.

Common knowledge that easy to find corrupt thai lawyers can certify forged signatures without consulting the people in question, and send such docs to the court.

We see this all the time with people losing their property. With deaths there is nobody around to complain. May also be a bigger motivation for foul play then the property issue commonly brought up.

I would not even trust a will in this country when it comes to money. But that's just me.

Edited October 18, 2015 by fey

[chuang]

You seem to have a low esteem of the thai people...and you are still here..

[NancyL]

Yes, this is standard procedure. It's my understanding here that, in the absence of a Will, children inherit with the same standing as a wife. So, Bangkok Bank was just making sure that the deceased didn't have any children back in his home country before they released the funds to his Thai wife.

Also, it's possible that he misrepresented his "freedom to marry" at his Embassy/Consulate when he obtained the document necessary to marry in Thailand. This happens more commonly than you'd think and lawful overseas wives have been known to insist on "their" inheritance.

[lopburi3]

Believe that is correct - 50% to spouse and remaining 50% split among children. But believe if joint account would be surviving joint owner and not part of estate.

[KittenKong]

You seem to have a low esteem of the thai people...and you are still here..

It isn't necessary to like the people in order to like the country.

[Langsuan Man]

In the meantime this lady will have no access to the funds withon the account.

If she was his wife didn't he trust her with his ATM card and PIN ?

If so, then the solution is simple, she just withdraws the money based upon the bank's maximum daily withdrawal limits

My TG knows where I keep the cards and the PIN numbers and has been told to empty everything before anyone knows. Have a will, but as you have learned, what do they live on while the will is probated

[lopburi3]

As OP says it was a Bangkok Bank account it may have been a dedicated direct deposit account that would not have ATM access; so may not have been available in this case.

[keeniau96]

I have a will specifying my wife is the sole inheritor, also that she has the absolute sole decision re disposal of my corpse (she knows i want BBQ at the wat). This will is short, simple and was checked over by a very competent lawyer. Then notarized at the USA embassy. I also left a special file with a list of instructions re my bank account with the PIN for the debit card and all my computer passwords, including a list of email recipients re sending notice of my death ... just to keep them from wondering (in case they care at all).

[fletchsmile]

It's treated just like any other bank account.

Like other countries there's a probate process to go thru. If you've made a will, it can make the process easier for your spouse to access.

In the UK a similar thing happens. You can't just go in to the bank and say my husband has died can I take all the money out of his account? The wife won't have access to the cash in her husband's account either until the estate is settled and there's a probate process to go thru.

[Jip99]

I have a will specifying my wife is the sole inheritor, also that she has the absolute sole decision re disposal of my corpse (she knows i want BBQ at the wat). This will is short, simple and was checked over by a very competent lawyer. Then notarized at the USA embassy. I also left a special file with a list of instructions re my bank account with the PIN for the debit card and all my computer passwords, including a list of email recipients re sending notice of my death ... just to keep them from wondering (in case they care at all).

Did you write the Will in Thai ?

Have you made your wife aware that she will be committing fraud if she uses your PIN/bank codes after your death ?

(i am not saying that I wouldn't do exactly the same thing - I am just asking if your wife understands the legal position).

[Jip99]

Yes, this is standard procedure. It's my understanding here that, in the absence of a Will, children inherit with the same standing as a wife. So, Bangkok Bank was just making sure that the deceased didn't have any children back in his home country before they released the funds to his Thai wife.

Also, it's possible that he misrepresented his "freedom to marry" at his Embassy/Consulate when he obtained the document necessary to marry in Thailand. This happens more commonly than you'd think and lawful overseas wives have been known to insist on "their" inheritance.

Yes - you would think that the respective embassies/consulates would notice a disproportionately high number of "bachelors" requesting an Affirmation to Marry !!

[prakhonchai nick]

Yes, this is standard procedure. It's my understanding here that, in the absence of a Will, children inherit with the same standing as a wife. So, Bangkok Bank was just making sure that the deceased didn't have any children back in his home country before they released the funds to his Thai wife.

Also, it's possible that he misrepresented his "freedom to marry" at his Embassy/Consulate when he obtained the document necessary to marry in Thailand. This happens more commonly than you'd think and lawful overseas wives have been known to insist on "their" inheritance.

Yes - you would think that the respective embassies/consulates would notice a disproportionately high number of "bachelors" requesting an Affirmation to Marry !!

I very much doubt the embassies/consulates care. They just rake in the fees!

[Suradit69]

That sounds like a normal procedure - the account is held in retiree name only so probate type action would likely be required. Just as payout of Thai spouse funds would include payments to Thai family as well as spouse.

If this is a concern for 9 months of the year the funds could be in another account as only 3 months is required for retirement extension. Another factor to limit the amount would be to use combination of pension and bank account to lower the amount required in account.

My bank account and condo deed are held in my name only but they are also assets to be given to my Thai heir in my Thai will. I contacted the US embassy about what was needed to ensure that no roadblocks were placed in the way of my Thai heir as far as funeral arrangements and disposition of assets was concerned and they assured me that if those provisions were stated in my Thai will they would not attempt to raise any objections to the designated heir proceeding per my instructions.

[al007]

I thought last thursday night I was on the way out and the trip to the hospital in the early hours was maybe my last

I am quite well organised have thai will and all my non thai assets and bank accounts are joint

My thai bank account because of visa money requirements are still in my sole name, and my wife would need this until she managed to get to our various joint accounts

i need to change my thai accounts to joint and use embassy certification of pension for my visa in future

However all my passwords and user names maybe thirty, are only in code and decipherable by me, I need to document all this and then store it securely, without all this information it would be a nightmare

I will attend to this last one shortly can store on a security coded stick, no do it on two separate ones just in case, can have same access code

Thanks everyone for motivating me

[Jeffkp]

You seem to have a low esteem of the thai people...and you are still here..

It isn't necessary to like the people in order to like the country.

What a strange statement. The people ARE the country. Are you here because you like Thai trees?

[akentryan]

My Thai wife, a lawyer, died suddenly on Jan 2, 2015 at age 57 without a will. I made her brother the Executor and he has a lawyer friend handling the court business. Just last week I was told all the court work was done and I need to go to Bangkok (from Pattaya) to transfer two houses. a car, and a few bank accounts. Supposedly no problems as one sister gets the house where I'm living in Pattaya and another sister and a niece split the house in Bangkok after it is sold. I was fortunate to get the bank people to come to our home and add me to some of my wife's bank accounts before she died. i went to the bank and closed the accounts and moved the money over to my account before she died. I lost over 150,000 baht in interest but it could have been a lot worse. If i die now before I make a Thai will my son will be the sole beneficiary of my estate and it will be a mess. I am now waiting for the BKK trip to make sure that what I (and my wife) wanted done actually got done. TIT and TBF - trust but verify. I keep telling everyone i"ll be 77 this week so the sooner the better but no one seems to give a shit. Funny considering that I still have 15 million in cash which will all go to my Thai family.

[David in the north]

Make a will. Cost me 2,000 baht.

[akentryan]

No will until I make sure the houses got where they were supposed to go. The one in Pattaya is 4 million plusand the one in BKK is 2.5 million plus with both being fully furnished.That is the only pressure I can bring to bear on the matter at hand. If I have any advance notice of my impending demise I will go to the bank and make the cash distributions myself. If I die suddenly all it will be a mess.

[chris1010]

hi am I right in saying a retirement visa of 800k has to be in your name only not a joint account??? thanks

[thaiduncankk]

When I pass away I am not going to lose any sleep over 800,000 baht.

'Not my ploblem' as they say.

[jeffandgop]

I have a will specifying my wife is the sole inheritor, also that she has the absolute sole decision re disposal of my corpse (she knows i want BBQ at the wat). This will is short, simple and was checked over by a very competent lawyer. Then notarized at the USA embassy. I also left a special file with a list of instructions re my bank account with the PIN for the debit card and all my computer passwords, including a list of email recipients re sending notice of my death ... just to keep them from wondering (in case they care at all).

Did you write the Will in Thai ?

Have you made your wife aware that she will be committing fraud if she uses your PIN/bank codes after your death ?

(i am not saying that I wouldn't do exactly the same thing - I am just asking if your wife understands the legal position).

[CMBob]

Did you write the Will in Thai ?

Have you made your wife aware that she will be committing fraud if she uses your PIN/bank codes after your death ?

Will or not, as soon as the bank finds out a depositor is dead, there won't be any withdrawal of funds (via ATM or otherwise) without a Thai probate court order (which first appoints an executor who then can take that order to the bank and then has the power to withdraw the funds).

But I totally disagree with you about the "fraud" comment. Arguably it could be fraud to some degree if the person using the ATM was not the heir provided by law or provided in a Will but if the person doing the withdrawing is the heir then at worst it's technically improper but certainly not fraud. Rather difficult to steal money from yourself or commit fraud against yourself.

[fletchsmile]

hi am I right in saying a retirement visa of 800k has to be in your name only not a joint account??? thanks

Yes you're right, the 800k needs to be in your name only not joint account

Same if you're married. The 400k needs to be in your name only.

[Jip99]

Yes, this is standard procedure. It's my understanding here that, in the absence of a Will, children inherit with the same standing as a wife. So, Bangkok Bank was just making sure that the deceased didn't have any children back in his home country before they released the funds to his Thai wife.

Also, it's possible that he misrepresented his "freedom to marry" at his Embassy/Consulate when he obtained the document necessary to marry in Thailand. This happens more commonly than you'd think and lawful overseas wives have been known to insist on "their" inheritance.

Yes - you would think that the respective embassies/consulates would notice a disproportionately high number of "bachelors" requesting an Affirmation to Marry !!

I very much doubt the embassies/consulates care. They just rake in the fees!

Oooh! What a cynical view

I wish I could say that you were wrong!!

[Jip99]

Did you write the Will in Thai ?

Have you made your wife aware that she will be committing fraud if she uses your PIN/bank codes after your death ?

Will or not, as soon as the bank finds out a depositor is dead, there won't be any withdrawal of funds (via ATM or otherwise) without a Thai probate court order (which first appoints an executor who then can take that order to the bank and then has the power to withdraw the funds).

But I totally disagree with you about the "fraud" comment. Arguably it could be fraud to some degree if the person using the ATM was not the heir provided by law or provided in a Will but if the person doing the withdrawing is the heir then at worst it's technically improper but certainly not fraud. Rather difficult to steal money from yourself or commit fraud against yourself.

Sorry Bob but I believe you to be wrong on a number of counts.

1. The whole point of this exercise is that the bank are not advised of the death and the widow takes out cash via ATM/online banking.

Not legal but a very practical strategy that I have seen employed on numerous occasions.

2. The heir is only a beneficiary and even if ratified as an executor she does not 'own' the funds. All mandates cease on death and a widow taking out cash after the date of death is committing fraud. The bank monies vest in the estate and not until probate/administration is granted does control move to another party. Welcome to limbo land!

Understand the legal parties involved - but I do like the justification by way of "technically improper"

[dotpoom]

Don't really see the need to mention anything about the money being connected to "retirement extension".....wouldn't it apply to any money a man had in his bank account in his name only?

Edited October 19, 2015 by dotpoom