Thailand's roads second deadliest in the world: World Health Organization

[Assurancetourix]

an incorrect interpretation. Speeding is a factor in many collisions or incidents....but that is a constant - more or less - everywhere in the world - so why are the death figures so high in Thailand? you are obviously missing something?

Multiple factors contribute to road accidents;

but the most important is what we can see on thai roads :

nobody take care of the other drivers or road users like pedestrians, dogs, cyclists ...

I think thai people aren't bouddhists ;

if they were, they will take care about other users .

How many schools to learn how to drive and more important how to behave well on the roads ?

[apetley]

That figure is underrated. Thai only count the dead AT THE SCENE. If you die later in the hospital, you don't don't get counted. Fact, not fiction.

Interesting. Who at the "scene" is qualified to pronouns a person is actually dead,?

Could you please supply a reference for this "fact not fiction" you quoted. Thanks

Actually "fiction," more like it. The road accident follows the injured to the hospitals and through the registrations of "cause of death," reports and into the court system and National registry. Nice try there, however you almost got away with that Porkey!

See post #14

Quote "What is more, Thailand’s actual road fatality rate may be even worse than reported, thanks to skewed reporting by the nation’s Public Health Ministry whose figures only include fatalities at the scene of accidents. Traffic-related deaths which occur later in hospital are not included in official figures."

FGS - read the report - it talks about this and many other problems with gathering statistics. Do you think that their statisticians are unaware of this sort of thing?

Yes I did read the report. What I did was provide a reply to posters who asked if the 'dead at the scene' was fact or fiction. The article in post #14 suggests fact.

[masuk]

An understanding of action and reaction time! If I am travelling at 90kph, with 3 metres between me and the car in front, can I see - react - brake - stop, in the few milliseconds available?

The answer is invariably NO! But this doesn't seem to be understood.

Having a poorly secured load such as pipes hanging over your roof, does not help the driver in front a lot either.

The number of motor cyclists I see driving with one hand while texting with the other, never ceases to amaze me.

You seem quite oblivious of the topic and now have decided to waffle on about speeding and appear to be implying that the Thai nation has some unique inherent inability to deal with this. I would regard this as further evidence that you really have no grasp of the topic of road safety as discussed in this report.

Yes, Thais DO have a problem understanding high speeds and safe driving.

don't be so b....y pompous

[superal]

If the UK traffic police were suddenly posted to Thailand they would be unable to cope . They would probably have to double their officer numbers .

As most of us know the UK traffic police use a system called Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) . This cctv software will indicate within a second the status of a vehicle i.e. is it insured ,does it have road tax , does it have a current vehicle test cert; Is the car stolen , has the car been cloned .

Gas stations are also equipped with cctv that can be used with the ANPR to catch fuel thieves . However I guess that for some reason it will not be introduced here . Imagine how many vehicles would be taken off the road and/or impounded !

Food for thought

...and your point is what?

Well I am surprised you asked . The statement above is self informative inasmuch to say that there are traffic management systems and tools available right now to stop this avoidable carnage on the Thai roads yet for some reason there appears to be no interest or effort to mitigate the problems . Unless you know better .

"Well I am surprised you asked" - I bet you are! You actually just pointed out a couple of enforcement options used in the UK.....so I'll re-phrase my question - "so what?" I've said time and again that most posters just offer these blinkered on off statements as if they are some kind of panacea for all Thailand's motoring needs - total nonsense.

I have read your postings with regards to this topic and you come across as an objectionable person who is hyper critical , argumentative and has actually made zero contribution to this serious subject .Constructive criticism is acceptable , however , I think you may be a wind-up merchant but whatever you do please refrain from replying to any of my future postings as I do not like the flavour of your writings .

[brling]

...and your point is what?

Well I am surprised you asked . The statement above is self informative inasmuch to say that there are traffic management systems and tools available right now to stop this avoidable carnage on the Thai roads yet for some reason there appears to be no interest or effort to mitigate the problems . Unless you know better .

"Well I am surprised you asked" - I bet you are! You actually just pointed out a couple of enforcement options used in the UK.....so I'll re-phrase my question - "so what?" I've said time and again that most posters just offer these blinkered on off statements as if they are some kind of panacea for all Thailand's motoring needs - total nonsense.

I have read your postings with regards to this topic and you come across as an objectionable person who is hyper critical , argumentative and has actually made zero contribution to this serious subject .Constructive criticism is acceptable , however , I think you may be a wind-up merchant but whatever you do please refrain from replying to any of my future postings as I do not like the flavour of your writings .

Correct, but "constructive criticism" or ANY form of criticism is NOT acceptable if you are a Thai apologist like "cumgranosalum"

[mike324]

an incorrect interpretation. Speeding is a factor in many collisions or incidents....but that is a constant - more or less - everywhere in the world - so why are the death figures so high in Thailand? you are obviously missing something?

Well if you look at how much the average motorist drives over the speed limit compare to other countries in the world... I agree there are other factors such as vehicle maintenance such as brakes, driver ability, tail gating, etc etc ...but in the end its all related to speeding

how many percentage of the deaths have we seen that are not related to speeding?

"Well if you look at how much the average motorist drives over the speed limit compare to other countries in the world.."

Now you're just making assumptions based on....well nothing.

"speed" or "speeding" or "excessive speed" l are different.

"how many percentage of the deaths have we seen that are not related to speeding?" - this is the kind of question you get from someone who really doesn't understand the issues. May I suggest that you go and read the report being discussed - it is on WORLD road safety and even proposes some solutions - it also has comprehensive comparisons of road safet stats for most countries. If you come to the discussion it is not for me to fill you in on the dwtails - find thhem out for yourself and cometo the discussion prepared.

" I agree there are other factors" The "other factors" are primarily defined by the 5 "E"s; if you don't know what these are, you need to find that out too....these are the basics of road safety and I would suggest they are required if you are to have any chance of understanding the topic.

You want to criticize what others say, but you bring no substance being a smarty pants yourself. Speeding and drunk driving are the top 3 causes of road fatalities in most countries around the world. Perhaps you should look up the stats up yourself, well I'm sure you know.

I'm not making any assumptions, its based on fact. Just go onto any thai highway, most stretches of the road are 80km/hr, more than 50% of the people drive 100+ km.I don't have research proof Mr. Professor, but I've driven in the US for 10 years, all over Europe for 5. and various countries in Asia during holidays So I've seen my share of driving and can contribute based on my experience. You will not find 50% of people in 1st world nations driving over the speed limit on any given road.

The article is on WORLD road safety, and you are on THAI Visa forum not WORLD Visa. Your point is? What they propose is good, but Thais can't even enforce a simple speeding and traffic laws. I'm not asking you to fill me on the details. You are not discussing anything here other than refuting other people's comments.

How many non-english speaking countries follow the 5 "E's". Yes I do not know them and I don't think I need to to be a safe driver, English was not my first language. But I did try to look it up online, I don't find any 5 "E's", please do share a link to what you are talking about.

You want to sit on TV and nit pick on "speed", "speeding", "excessive speed" is different ....chill out

Edited October 23, 2015 by mike324

[Assurancetourix]

Thank u Mike;

Me too, I would like to know what is/are the 5 "E's"

I was a trucker during 13 years on all european roads, especially Italy ;

but went to many other countries such as Belgium, Nederland, Germany ( the two germanies because I'm an old man and was driving from 1971 to end of 1983 ), Danmark,

Poland, Ukrainia, Spain, Portugal ;

I'm living here since 8 years and our truck , a Isuzu 3,000 cc has already 120,000 km in less than 6 years ; if u have a look at it it's like new , never an accident because it was my job during so many years to drive cars, normal and huge trucks ( up to 120 tons ), buses and coaches .

I know how to drive and also how to behave well on the roads ;

When I drive my truck, I don't have a look only at the road but also at the other drivers, in front of me or behind my truck;

I respect the security distances so I can use my brakes which never " falled " in security .

And I don't drive fast , maximum 100 and often between 80 and 95 when I have the max torque, so I can do more than 1,200 km with a tank of diesel ( 74 l in the Isuzu tank ).

Ask a thai driver, male or female about security distances between two vehicles, distance for stopping when the road is wet ..

They will look at you as your are coming from another planet .

[Gonsalviz]

Believe it or not but today i saw a real motorpoliceman (with a big white motorbike) who had stopped a white minivan and was writing a ticket.

I'm getting hope now that one day it will be safe to drive around BKK.

Yeah, I saw that once. He stopped a 6 wheeler because a piece of paper came out the back.

[kimamey]

I would like to know how many of these deaths occurred at U-Turns.

Every few hundred metres on major 3 lane highways these are just accidents waiting to happen. How many times have you been driving along at 120kph in the outside lane (when there's no overloaded truck or bus blocking your way) and had to slam the brakes on to avoid running into a queue of traffic trying to do a U turn. Madness.

Isn't 120kph speeding?

[Thian]

The Police is sure working on this.

Today again i saw a "highway police" car stopping a big truck on kanchana phisek road. Yesterday it was a motorbike policemen stopping a minivan.

That was about time because i've seen the most terrible accidents happening there.

[masuk]

I would like to know how many of these deaths occurred at U-Turns.

Every few hundred metres on major 3 lane highways these are just accidents waiting to happen. How many times have you been driving along at 120kph in the outside lane (when there's no overloaded truck or bus blocking your way) and had to slam the brakes on to avoid running into a queue of traffic trying to do a U turn. Madness.

Isn't 120kph speeding?

nd Bangkok Metropolitan & Pattaya City: 80

Others: 90 Bangkok Metropolitan & Pattaya City: 80

Others: 90 90 Intercity Highway^{[citation needed]}

120 Motorway(Motorways Prohibited) Truck

Bangkok Metropolitan & Pattaya City: 60

Others: 80

Long Vehicle

Bangkok Metropolitan & Pattaya City: 45

Others: 60 80–90 No tolerance on any road when speed cameras are in operation.

[cumgranosalum]

An understanding of action and reaction time! If I am travelling at 90kph, with 3 metres between me and the car in front, can I see - react - brake - stop, in the few milliseconds available?

The answer is invariably NO! But this doesn't seem to be understood.

Having a poorly secured load such as pipes hanging over your roof, does not help the driver in front a lot either.

The number of motor cyclists I see driving with one hand while texting with the other, never ceases to amaze me.

You seem quite oblivious of the topic and now have decided to waffle on about speeding and appear to be implying that the Thai nation has some unique inherent inability to deal with this. I would regard this as further evidence that you really have no grasp of the topic of road safety as discussed in this report.

Yes, Thais DO have a problem understanding high speeds and safe driving.

don't be so b....y pompous

so you are suggesting that the Thai people are less capable than the rest of the world at understanding SPEED?? - this I take it is basing your theories of road safety on race? I think you're on thin ice with that theory.

Edited October 23, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[cumgranosalum]

An understanding of action and reaction time! If I am travelling at 90kph, with 3 metres between me and the car in front, can I see - react - brake - stop, in the few milliseconds available?

The answer is invariably NO! But this doesn't seem to be understood.

Having a poorly secured load such as pipes hanging over your roof, does not help the driver in front a lot either.

The number of motor cyclists I see driving with one hand while texting with the other, never ceases to amaze me.

You seem quite oblivious of the topic and now have decided to waffle on about speeding and appear to be implying that the Thai nation has some unique inherent inability to deal with this. I would regard this as further evidence that you really have no grasp of the topic of road safety as discussed in this report.

Yes, Thais DO have a problem understanding high speeds and safe driving.

don't be so b....y pompous

so you are suggesting that the Thai people are less capable than thew rest of the world at understanding SPEED?? - this I take it is basing your theories of road safety on race? I think you're on thin ice with that theory.

[cumgranosalum]

an incorrect interpretation. Speeding is a factor in many collisions or incidents....but that is a constant - more or less - everywhere in the world - so why are the death figures so high in Thailand? you are obviously missing something?

Multiple factors contribute to road accidents;

but the most important is what we can see on thai roads :

nobody take care of the other drivers or road users like pedestrians, dogs, cyclists ...

I think thai people aren't bouddhists ;

if they were, they will take care about other users .

How many schools to learn how to drive and more important how to behave well on the roads ?

So what's this theory number three? just as palpably facile as all the others.

[Thian]

An understanding of action and reaction time! If I am travelling at 90kph, with 3 metres between me and the car in front, can I see - react - brake - stop, in the few milliseconds available?

The answer is invariably NO! But this doesn't seem to be understood.

Having a poorly secured load such as pipes hanging over your roof, does not help the driver in front a lot either.

The number of motor cyclists I see driving with one hand while texting with the other, never ceases to amaze me.

You seem quite oblivious of the topic and now have decided to waffle on about speeding and appear to be implying that the Thai nation has some unique inherent inability to deal with this. I would regard this as further evidence that you really have no grasp of the topic of road safety as discussed in this report.

Yes, Thais DO have a problem understanding high speeds and safe driving.

don't be so b....y pompous

so you are suggesting that the Thai people are less capable than thew rest of the world at understanding SPEED?? - this I take it is basing your theories of road safety on race? I think you're on thin ice with that theory.

Yes hte Thai are VERY careless and don't see danger. Even at high speed they pass eachother very close, brake at the very last moment, pass eachother with high speed very close from the backside, cut eachother off very easy and so on.

Have you never noticed that? Also they don't give a dime for motorbikers, it seems like they always have to stop for a car coming out of a sidestreet or fuelstation.

[cumgranosalum]

You seem quite oblivious of the topic and now have decided to waffle on about speeding and appear to be implying that the Thai nation has some unique inherent inability to deal with this. I would regard this as further evidence that you really have no grasp of the topic of road safety as discussed in this report.

Yes, Thais DO have a problem understanding high speeds and safe driving.

don't be so b....y pompous

so you are suggesting that the Thai people are less capable than thew rest of the world at understanding SPEED?? - this I take it is basing your theories of road safety on race? I think you're on thin ice with that theory.

Yes hte Thai are VERY careless and don't see danger. Even at high speed they pass eachother very close, brake at the very last moment, pass eachother with high speed very close from the backside, cut eachother off very easy and so on.

Have you never noticed that? Also they don't give a dime for motorbikers, it seems like they always have to stop for a car coming out of a sidestreet or fuelstation.

so this is a racially-based explanation of the road safety figures in Thailand?

[mike324]

so you are suggesting that the Thai people are less capable than thew rest of the world at understanding SPEED?? - this I take it is basing your theories of road safety on race? I think you're on thin ice with that theory.

Yes hte Thai are VERY careless and don't see danger. Even at high speed they pass eachother very close, brake at the very last moment, pass eachother with high speed very close from the backside, cut eachother off very easy and so on.

Have you never noticed that? Also they don't give a dime for motorbikers, it seems like they always have to stop for a car coming out of a sidestreet or fuelstation.

so this is a racially-based explanation of the road safety figures in Thailand?

So why don't you tell everyone here why Thailand has the second highest road fatalities? Are you suggesting they are very capable at understanding driving safety?

I'm still waiting for the 5 "E's" that you preach about and everyone should know. I want to spread the 5 "E's" throughout Thailand to promote less road fatalities.

[cumgranosalum]

so you are suggesting that the Thai people are less capable than thew rest of the world at understanding SPEED?? - this I take it is basing your theories of road safety on race? I think you're on thin ice with that theory.

Yes hte Thai are VERY careless and don't see danger. Even at high speed they pass eachother very close, brake at the very last moment, pass eachother with high speed very close from the backside, cut eachother off very easy and so on.

Have you never noticed that? Also they don't give a dime for motorbikers, it seems like they always have to stop for a car coming out of a sidestreet or fuelstation.

so this is a racially-based explanation of the road safety figures in Thailand?

So why don't you tell everyone here why Thailand has the second highest road fatalities? Are you suggesting they are very capable at understanding driving safety?

I'm still waiting for the 5 "E's" that you preach about and everyone should know. I want to spread the 5 "E's" throughout Thailand to promote less road fatalities.

Racism is the misheld theory of the ignorant and I have absolutely no resp[ect for racists and their ignorant views...... - in yourself this lack of understanding is further demonstrated in that you don't even know what the 5 Es are, yet still think you are able to comment on this topic.

If you are going to comment on a topic, it would seem logical to at least inform yourself of the basics.......Discussing this topic with to someone like you is a bit like playing chess with a pigeon.

so if you are going to post anything apart from inane drivel, nay I suggest you do 2 things

firstly READ THE REPORT - it is quite clear you haven't

Secondly - Find out about the basics of road safety - (that includes the 5 Es).

Edited October 24, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[TKDfella]

I am not claiming this to be answer to the speed problem but I did pose the question to a group of Thai people at a party once. They told me that many Thai people believe that if it's your time to die then so be it. If it isn't well that's fine. So if a Thai takes chances on the road and does not survive a crash then that was the appointed time to die and would have happened even if not on the road. I argued that this seems reckless to me for what about those also involved in the crash that don't believe in that way? And what about just be injured but no death? It doesn't seem to follow the same idea as 'fate' but has some connection to their type of Budhism. Perhaps another poster here has heard different.

An understanding of action and reaction time! If I am travelling at 90kph, with 3 metres between me and the car in front, can I see - react - brake - stop, in the few milliseconds available?

The answer is invariably NO! But this doesn't seem to be understood.

Having a poorly secured load such as pipes hanging over your roof, does not help the driver in front a lot either.

The number of motor cyclists I see driving with one hand while texting with the other, never ceases to amaze me.

You seem quite oblivious of the topic and now have decided to waffle on about speeding and appear to be implying that the Thai nation has some unique inherent inability to deal with this. I would regard this as further evidence that you really have no grasp of the topic of road safety as discussed in this report.

Yes, Thais DO have a problem understanding high speeds and safe driving.

don't be so b....y pompous

so you are suggesting that the Thai people are less capable than the rest of the world at understanding SPEED?? - this I take it is basing your theories of road safety on race? I think you're on thin ice with that theory.

[mike324]

so this is a racially-based explanation of the road safety figures in Thailand?

So why don't you tell everyone here why Thailand has the second highest road fatalities? Are you suggesting they are very capable at understanding driving safety?

I'm still waiting for the 5 "E's" that you preach about and everyone should know. I want to spread the 5 "E's" throughout Thailand to promote less road fatalities.

Racism is the misheld theory of the ignorant and I have absolutely no resp[ect for racists and their ignorant views...... - in yourself this lack of understanding is further demonstrated in that you don't even know what the 5 Es are, yet still think you are able to comment on this topic.

If you are going to comment on a topic, it would seem logical to at least inform yourself of the basics.......Discussing this topic with to someone like you is a bit like playing chess with a pigeon.

so if you are going to post anything apart from inane drivel, nay I suggest you do 2 things

firstly READ THE REPORT - it is quite clear you haven't

Secondly - Find out about the basics of road safety - (that includes the 5 Es).

My statements were clearly not racist. I’m only asking you to explain if Thais understand the concept of safety, why are the road fatalities still 2^nd highest in the world? You get so defensive whenever someone says anything negative about Thais.

I read the report, it states speed, seat belts, helmets, and DUI are main cauese of deaths. It hardly mentions anything about Thailand, yet keep on saying read the report.

You are still bent on everyone knowing the 5 “E’s” or else they are not knowledgable enough to comment here. Again I told you English is not my first language or the language I got my license, hence I would not know it. Even the poster above who was a professional truck driver in Europe never heard of the 5 “E’s”. I have a US driver license, Thai, as well as one from my home country. No 5 “E’s” in the education there too, yet I pass all exams, driving for 30+ years not a single accident, never been hit too.

If you want people to know, share a link. I’ve tried searching and I can’t find it.

Your analogies are funny, but doesn’t apply here. You call people racist, not knowledgeable ….starting to show your true colors… I have to admit, I feel the same way as you too, at least the pigeon can play chess, I can’t even get my word across to you

Cheers buddy, this thread is all yours now

[simple1]

5 E's of road safety:

• Engineering
• Education
• Encouragement
• Enforcement
• Evaluation

[newnative]

Unfortunately, Thailand doesn't have any of the '5 E's' of road safety. Instead, it has all the Bad Elements that come together to make a 'perfect storm' that creates all those traffic fatalities. Some of the elements: badly engineered roads with very unsafe U turn lanes, no merge lanes, too narrow lanes, bad intersections, etc.; lack of traffic lights where badly needed, such as at busy shopping centers; drivers who drive too fast for road conditions; too many motorcycles driven recklessly; way too many stray dogs country-wide running out onto the road; poorly trained police who create unsafe highway traffic checks; badly designed/placed out of date toll booths that create unnecessary, unsafe, long traffic jams (it does not help to have an Easy Pass if you are still stuck in miles long traffic jams waiting to just get up to the Easy Pass lane); poorly maintained, unsafe vehicles not inspected enough; all manner of unsuitable vehicles using the roads, including push carts; overloaded vehicles carrying cargo not secured well; poorly regulated commercial drivers, especially van drivers; too many under-aged, unlicensed drivers, primarily on motorcycles; too many drivers with 'Buddha will protect me' attitude; too many drivers who feel they can stop and leave their vehicle anywhere on the road just by turning on the emergency flashers; poorly maintained roads, many without even basic road striping; poor road signage; out of date, poorly placed, confusing traffic signals; and poor traffic management, including for lane closures for road work, accidents, etc. Many countries also have some of these same bad elements but what pushes Thailand to number 2 (and possibly number 1) in road fatalities is the crucial and total lack of the fourth 'E': ENFORCEMENT. In Thailand, unfortunately, you can break any and all traffic laws with a 99.9 certainty that you will never be caught. And, if you are ever in that remaining rare percentile, the fine will be a pittance. It's a wonder it's not even worse out there.

[Assurancetourix]

I would like to know how many of these deaths occurred at U-Turns.

Every few hundred metres on major 3 lane highways these are just accidents waiting to happen. How many times have you been driving along at 120kph in the outside lane (when there's no overloaded truck or bus blocking your way) and had to slam the brakes on to avoid running into a queue of traffic trying to do a U turn. Madness.

Isn't 120kph speeding?

Yes, it is , especially on thai roads 120km/h = 33,3 m/s ;

[cumgranosalum]

"Well I am surprised you asked" - I bet you are! You actually just pointed out a couple of enforcement options used in the UK.....so I'll re-phrase my question - "so what?" I've said time and again that most posters just offer these blinkered on off statements as if they are some kind of panacea for all Thailand's motoring needs - total nonsense.

I have read your postings with regards to this topic and you come across as an objectionable person who is hyper critical , argumentative and has actually made zero contribution to this serious subject .Constructive criticism is acceptable , however , I think you may be a wind-up merchant but whatever you do please refrain from replying to any of my future postings as I do not like the flavour of your writings .

" I do not like the flavour of your writings . " - QED.yiour answer brings to mind the story of the kings new clothes - -

All the way through this thread I've been trying to point out that basically most posters don't have the faintest idea what road safety entails and rather than find out they just post nonsense and anecdote as if that is some vindication on the topic. I doubt if anyone has even read the report summary let alone the report itself, most when referencing seem to be referring to the press release and then mix that with a dose of their own prejudices....I see nothing in your posts to suggest otherwise, but your last effort seems to confirm it completely.

Edited October 24, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[cumgranosalum]

Unfortunately, Thailand doesn't have any of the '5 E's' of road safety. Instead, it has all the Bad Elements that come together to make a 'perfect storm' that creates all those traffic fatalities. Some of the elements: badly engineered roads with very unsafe U turn lanes, no merge lanes, too narrow lanes, bad intersections, etc.; lack of traffic lights where badly needed, such as at busy shopping centers; drivers who drive too fast for road conditions; too many motorcycles driven recklessly; way too many stray dogs country-wide running out onto the road; poorly trained police who create unsafe highway traffic checks; badly designed/placed out of date toll booths that create unnecessary, unsafe, long traffic jams (it does not help to have an Easy Pass if you are still stuck in miles long traffic jams waiting to just get up to the Easy Pass lane); poorly maintained, unsafe vehicles not inspected enough; all manner of unsuitable vehicles using the roads, including push carts; overloaded vehicles carrying cargo not secured well; poorly regulated commercial drivers, especially van drivers; too many under-aged, unlicensed drivers, primarily on motorcycles; too many drivers with 'Buddha will protect me' attitude; too many drivers who feel they can stop and leave their vehicle anywhere on the road just by turning on the emergency flashers; poorly maintained roads, many without even basic road striping; poor road signage; out of date, poorly placed, confusing traffic signals; and poor traffic management, including for lane closures for road work, accidents, etc. Many countries also have some of these same bad elements but what pushes Thailand to number 2 (and possibly number 1) in road fatalities is the crucial and total lack of the fourth 'E': ENFORCEMENT. In Thailand, unfortunately, you can break any and all traffic laws with a 99.9 certainty that you will never be caught. And, if you are ever in that remaining rare percentile, the fine will be a pittance. It's a wonder it's not even worse out there.

You can't "have" or "not have" the 5 Es they are concepts and areas that affect road safety. It is how these Es are addressed that makes the difference - and you cannot address just one they are part and parcel of the whole affair...

For over a decade Thailand with its “Road Safety Action Plan” has espoused the virtues of the 5 “E”s (it has to be said with little effect) ...............

1. Education
2. Enforcement
3. Engineering
4. Emergency
5. Evaluation

1. Education

This is fairly self-explanatory - people need to be told/shown how to drive and given the “tools” to share the road with other users - UK had several government TV campaigns in the 60s and 70s. Clever well thought out ads with a bit of humour that weren’t condescending and helped to establish the country as a safe place to drive. (Do you remember the elephant in the fog?).

The first people to educate in Thailand would be the police.

1. Enforcement

Again self-explanatory - but Thailand has the added problem of ingrained corruption, graft and bribery which impedes this no matter how many laws are passed. The laws need to be reasonable applicable and equitably enforced too.

1. Engineering: - most critics of (Thai) road safety usually ignore this aspect of road safety.

Vehicle engineering - Safer car design and engineering: - car safety is both “passive” (seat belts, airbags and construction etc.) and “Active” (braking steering, handling, traction control etc.) these two are really interdependent now with so much computerised and hi-tech features on modern vehicles.

· Anti-locking brakes

· Traction control

· Air-bags

· Side impact bars

· AVCSS

· More reliable engine, tyres and components

· Vehicle dynamics in general (vary from UK and Thailand)

Of course, roadworthiness checks are vital - but totally unenforced in Thailand.

Road Engineering -

The design and construction on the roads, bridges, junction, road surface, camber, drainage etc.

· The use of barriers (e.g. Armco), the removal of roadside hazards - e.g. trees or boulders on the side and centre of roads. The clearing of billboards and vegetation that obscure drivers’ vision

· Traffic - the use of lines, signs, bollards etc. etc. to dictate how and where the traffic flows and at what speed - virtually non-excitant in Thailand and seldom noticed by drivers in countries that make good use of it.

· The use of barriers (e.g. Armco), the removal of trees from the side and centre of roads. The clearing of billboards and vegetation that obscure drivers’ vision.

· Better infrastructure and engineering

· Better road surfaces

· Better signage

· More forgiving

· Traffic calming

· Shared space - keeping various road users apart is key to safety in some situations - if they are separated they can’t collide.

Like so many things on the roads in Thailand, the only reason that U-Turns happen is because the roads themselves ALLOW it.... this is an engineering problem (and cost), not so much a driver problem.

1. Emergency

- What happens in the event of injury... this is a major factor in who lives or dies.

It has been well documented that the time between accident and getting treatment is crucial in the survival of RTI victims.

Treatment on the scene and reducing the time it takes to get the patient to hospital is vital. Thailand still has NO EFFECTIVE UNIVERSAL EMERGENCY SERVICE!!

1. Evaluation

- How do we ascertain if measures are effective and what new ideas can be implemented.

Most governments have agencies of some sort that after engaging any road scheme, whether it is construction or a safety campaign, review in detail every aspect of that project; effects on local population, environment, accident statistics etc. etc. Statistics are gathered and monitored and appropriate action taken. - Whereas Thailand may nominally have such bodies their effectiveness is just about zero. Road safety in Thailand is left largely to ill-thought out, baseless pronouncements made by members of the government with little better to do.

Edited October 24, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[cumgranosalum]

Unfortunately, Thailand doesn't have any of the '5 E's' of road safety. Instead, it has all the Bad Elements that come together to make a 'perfect storm' that creates all those traffic fatalities. Some of the elements: badly engineered roads with very unsafe U turn lanes, no merge lanes, too narrow lanes, bad intersections, etc.; lack of traffic lights where badly needed, such as at busy shopping centers; drivers who drive too fast for road conditions; too many motorcycles driven recklessly; way too many stray dogs country-wide running out onto the road; poorly trained police who create unsafe highway traffic checks; badly designed/placed out of date toll booths that create unnecessary, unsafe, long traffic jams (it does not help to have an Easy Pass if you are still stuck in miles long traffic jams waiting to just get up to the Easy Pass lane); poorly maintained, unsafe vehicles not inspected enough; all manner of unsuitable vehicles using the roads, including push carts; overloaded vehicles carrying cargo not secured well; poorly regulated commercial drivers, especially van drivers; too many under-aged, unlicensed drivers, primarily on motorcycles; too many drivers with 'Buddha will protect me' attitude; too many drivers who feel they can stop and leave their vehicle anywhere on the road just by turning on the emergency flashers; poorly maintained roads, many without even basic road striping; poor road signage; out of date, poorly placed, confusing traffic signals; and poor traffic management, including for lane closures for road work, accidents, etc. Many countries also have some of these same bad elements but what pushes Thailand to number 2 (and possibly number 1) in road fatalities is the crucial and total lack of the fourth 'E': ENFORCEMENT. In Thailand, unfortunately, you can break any and all traffic laws with a 99.9 certainty that you will never be caught. And, if you are ever in that remaining rare percentile, the fine will be a pittance. It's a wonder it's not even worse out there.

However one has to say that your post is about the only post that acknowledges that there are a myriad factors that contribute to road safety in Thailand and doesn't just resort to the racist concept that Thais are somehow inherently worse at driving than anyone else...if fact most of them they probably make a better job of it than the average indignant geriatric expat who thinks that firstly that everyone should drive like they do back home and secondly, he, personally, is a superb driver.

“Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?”

Individuals do not believe they are dangerous on the roads but at the same time fervently believe others are.

· I am not likely to be responsible for an accident; others are likely to be responsible. Therefore little I can do.

· Hence, less likely to need to “plan to avoid them”

· Campaigns aimed at dangerous driving are for “other” drivers not themselves.

· Such campaigns re-emphasise this difference (2CV, 2008 and Flaming Research, 2008)

· The third-person effect (Davison, 1983).

· High support for enforcement, engineering solutions and education

· But not for themselves - for other people.

If one looks at some of the anecdotal claptrap offered up on this thread it is quite clearly the result of confirmation bias to a massive degree.

[Assurancetourix]

the removal of trees from the side and centre of roads.

Some french people did things like that in a few provinces .

u know why ?

because sometimes trees are crossing the roads ;

now there are no trees but crazy drivers continue to die in the fields

[cumgranosalum]

the removal of trees from the side and centre of roads.

Some french people did things like that in a few provinces .

u know why ?

because sometimes trees are crossing the roads ;

now there are no trees but crazy drivers continue to die in the fields

If you come off the road, which would you prefer to collide with a field or a tree?

[Assurancetourix]

If you come off the road it's because you are a bad driver

[cumgranosalum]

If you come off the road it's because you are a bad driver

...and the award for the most facile post on the whole thread goes to.........