Showdown in Houston over LGBT nondiscrimination ordinance

[Jingthing]

A funny look at this very depressing civil rights defeat.

[OMGImInPattaya]

This is the logical result of the transphobia so often seen and applauded of in some many people, including here on T-V.

[simon43]

So if I am biologically born as a man, but tell everyone that I think I should be a woman - then that gives me the right to enter and use bathrooms, toilets showers and changing rooms reserved for biological women?

That cannot be OK. What about the rights and personal privacy of those women? They may not share the view that the transexual/transvestite is a 'real' woman.

I don't know the answer to this problem. If I say that I believe that I am the Queen of England, does that give me the right to live in Buckingham Palace?

[RuamRudy]

So if I am biologically born as a man, but tell everyone that I think I should be a woman - then that gives me the right to enter and use bathrooms, toilets showers and changing rooms reserved for biological women?

That cannot be OK. What about the rights and personal privacy of those women? They may not share the view that the transexual/transvestite is a 'real' woman.

I don't know the answer to this problem. If I say that I believe that I am the Queen of England, does that give me the right to live in Buckingham Palace?

Have you ever heard a woman express concern about this? Is it a problem in female minds?

I don't know any transgender people, but the feeling I get when I see them on TV is that M2F people are generally well received and accepted by other women.

[smokie36]

That's an absolute disgrace.

Don't see why it's a disgrace, this is private business and there is a long-standing principle - which I believe goes back to the Magna Carta - that in private interactions people are free to associate with who they want to associate with, in business or personal life. The lefties find exception to this and are quite willing to use legislation to stick their noses into people's private affairs.

"Stick their noses into people's private affairs"

Rather shot yourself in the foot there and shown with your comments absolutely why such legislation is needed.

[lostboy]

So if I am biologically born as a man, but tell everyone that I think I should be a woman - then that gives me the right to enter and use bathrooms, toilets showers and changing rooms reserved for biological women?

That cannot be OK. What about the rights and personal privacy of those women? They may not share the view that the transexual/transvestite is a 'real' woman.

I don't know the answer to this problem. If I say that I believe that I am the Queen of England, does that give me the right to live in Buckingham Palace?

Many people who do not understand the experience of people with sexual orientation or gender identity different to their own legitimately express concerns. Unfortunately, the way those concerns are expressed or the words that are used can lead to offence. The way you express your view perpetuates the discredited myth that these sexual and gender issues are a matter of belief and opinion. The American Psychological Association has long since accepted that sexual orientation and gender identity are not mental health issues. http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/sexual-orientation.aspx

What you do with your words is trivialise the life experience of LGBT people. You equate their challenges engaging in a society structured to favour non LGBT people to some frat boy prank or some deviant activity. If an occupant of a female restroom feels uncomfortable about a female identifying trans person using that facility, then that is their problem. If they perceive the performance of a biological function or hygienic activity as a sexually provocative act, then they need treatment.

Let's just make all restrooms unisex.

If you don't know the answer to the issue, perhaps you might consider talking to an LGBT person before making comparisons. It is hard to know whether to go on the attack against a bigot or bigoted statement or whether to pass on knowledge to someone who truly does not yet understand. I think past experience causes many LGBT people and their supporters to take the first option.

[simon43]

If an occupant of a female restroom feels uncomfortable about a female identifying trans person using that facility, then that is their problem

Why is it their problem? The problem is that a man is trying to use their toilet/bathroom. That man can say he is a woman or can dress as a woman. That doesn't make him a woman and each gender has a right to privacy in toilet/unclothed situations.

Go back to my analogy again. If I say that I am the Queen of England and try to enter Buckingham Palace, whose problem is that? Certainly not the real Queen of England's problem, is it? I would need to understand that I can pretend in my mind to be the Q of E,, so long as I do not claim a right to enter Buck House.

People can claim to be whatever they want. But that doesn't always make it acceptable for the majority.

And please drop the bigot/bigotry line. It is very boring to hear this same old line trotted out by the LGBT crowd, every time someone opposes their viewpoint.

[RuamRudy]

If an occupant of a female restroom feels uncomfortable about a female identifying trans person using that facility, then that is their problem

Why is it their problem? The problem is that a man is trying to use their toilet/bathroom. That man can say he is a woman or can dress as a woman. That doesn't make him a woman and each gender has a right to privacy in toilet/unclothed situations.

Go back to my analogy again. If I say that I am the Queen of England and try to enter Buckingham Palace, whose problem is that? Certainly not the real Queen of England's problem, is it? I would need to understand that I can pretend in my mind to be the Q of E,, so long as I do not claim a right to enter Buck House.

People can claim to be whatever they want. But that doesn't always make it acceptable for the majority.

And please drop the bigot/bigotry line. It is very boring to hear this same old line trotted out by the LGBT crowd, every time someone opposes their viewpoint.

I have asked already but you have not answered - so here goes, once again: how many women do you know who have expressed concerns about transgender women using the ladies'?

[Jingthing]

This is a red herring issue.

The voters have rejected a COMPREHENSIVE anti-discrimination ordinance over a blown up fake issue.

It's a crying shame.

[sgtsabai]

And the homophobic, scared cats of lbgt raise their bigoted heads on TV. The only reason the HERO was rejected by voters in Houston was typical right wing religious wing nut lying money put into ads. How many of you bigoted racist homophobic scared cats even know a ladyboy? Troglodytes all of you. You live in Thailand, you've never been a toilet with women? I spent a pleasant evening helping a ladyboy friend opening her new bar, oh and she has a very male boyfriend. Toglodytes all you religious right wing bigots, yes bigots because that is what you are.

[Jingthing]

Three snaps.

For days.

[squarethecircle]

And the homophobic, scared cats of lbgt raise their bigoted heads on TV. The only reason the HERO was rejected by voters in Houston was typical right wing religious wing nut lying money put into ads. How many of you bigoted racist homophobic scared cats even know a ladyboy? Troglodytes all of you. You live in Thailand, you've never been a toilet with women? I spent a pleasant evening helping a ladyboy friend opening her new bar, oh and she has a very male boyfriend. Toglodytes all you religious right wing bigots, yes bigots because that is what you are.

Well I noticed that liberal (so-called "non-bigoted" places) like San Francisco don't have any ethical standards. They don't discriminate based on ethics and the result of that is they end up welcoming a criminal group of perverts like NAMBLA. Another example was the author of a manual for pedophiles in Colorado: he was totally free to do that in Colorado, and wasn't arrested until a sheriff from the Bible Belt found his book on Amazon, ordered it, and had it delivered to him (in felony violation of that state's child pornography statutes). Now I realize there is a difference between adult same-sex relations and pedophilia but the LGBT mafia has gotten mixed up with this and similar scumbag tactics - now I read they want to force the Boy Scouts to change their ethical standards. I get the picture that they and other leftist groups, subconsciously or consciously, want to totally overthrow the Judeo-Christian foundation of our civilization - what they're doing doesn't make sense otherwise.

And still not sure how the whole "bigot" line came about, but it seems this is a browbeating tactic. And for the discrimination question: discrimination is a central function of a rational mind. Of course a rational person would discriminate on a reasonable basis - preferably between good and evil - but part of the basis of a free civilization is you have the right to associate with who you want to associate with. It's stupid to base that on anything other than ethics or practical things but it seems unethical to force people to associate with people they do not want to be around. Part of "mind your own business" is don't force other people to do things they don't want to do.

[RuamRudy]

And the homophobic, scared cats of lbgt raise their bigoted heads on TV. The only reason the HERO was rejected by voters in Houston was typical right wing religious wing nut lying money put into ads. How many of you bigoted racist homophobic scared cats even know a ladyboy? Troglodytes all of you. You live in Thailand, you've never been a toilet with women? I spent a pleasant evening helping a ladyboy friend opening her new bar, oh and she has a very male boyfriend. Toglodytes all you religious right wing bigots, yes bigots because that is what you are.

Well I noticed that liberal (so-called "non-bigoted" places) like San Francisco don't have any ethical standards. They don't discriminate based on ethics and the result of that is they end up welcoming a criminal group of perverts like NAMBLA. Another example was the author of a manual for pedophiles in Colorado: he was totally free to do that in Colorado, and wasn't arrested until a sheriff from the Bible Belt found his book on Amazon, ordered it, and had it delivered to him (in felony violation of that state's child pornography statutes). Now I realize there is a difference between adult same-sex relations and pedophilia but the LGBT mafia has gotten mixed up with this and similar scumbag tactics - now I read they want to force the Boy Scouts to change their ethical standards. I get the picture that they and other leftist groups, subconsciously or consciously, want to totally overthrow the Judeo-Christian foundation of our civilization - what they're doing doesn't make sense otherwise.

And still not sure how the whole "bigot" line came about, but it seems this is a browbeating tactic. And for the discrimination question: discrimination is a central function of a rational mind. Of course a rational person would discriminate on a reasonable basis - preferably between good and evil - but part of the basis of a free civilization is you have the right to associate with who you want to associate with. It's stupid to base that on anything other than ethics or practical things but it seems unethical to force people to associate with people they do not want to be around. Part of "mind your own business" is don't force other people to do things they don't want to do.

Why are you bringing paedophilia into the argument, unless your intent is to besmirch the cause of those who stand for tolerance by equating them with this vile, cheap slur?

[lostboy]

And the homophobic, scared cats of lbgt raise their bigoted heads on TV. The only reason the HERO was rejected by voters in Houston was typical right wing religious wing nut lying money put into ads. How many of you bigoted racist homophobic scared cats even know a ladyboy? Troglodytes all of you. You live in Thailand, you've never been a toilet with women? I spent a pleasant evening helping a ladyboy friend opening her new bar, oh and she has a very male boyfriend. Toglodytes all you religious right wing bigots, yes bigots because that is what you are.

Well I noticed that liberal (so-called "non-bigoted" places) like San Francisco don't have any ethical standards. They don't discriminate based on ethics and the result of that is they end up welcoming a criminal group of perverts like NAMBLA. Another example was the author of a manual for pedophiles in Colorado: he was totally free to do that in Colorado, and wasn't arrested until a sheriff from the Bible Belt found his book on Amazon, ordered it, and had it delivered to him (in felony violation of that state's child pornography statutes). Now I realize there is a difference between adult same-sex relations and pedophilia but the LGBT mafia has gotten mixed up with this and similar scumbag tactics - now I read they want to force the Boy Scouts to change their ethical standards. I get the picture that they and other leftist groups, subconsciously or consciously, want to totally overthrow the Judeo-Christian foundation of our civilization - what they're doing doesn't make sense otherwise.

And still not sure how the whole "bigot" line came about, but it seems this is a browbeating tactic. And for the discrimination question: discrimination is a central function of a rational mind. Of course a rational person would discriminate on a reasonable basis - preferably between good and evil - but part of the basis of a free civilization is you have the right to associate with who you want to associate with. It's stupid to base that on anything other than ethics or practical things but it seems unethical to force people to associate with people they do not want to be around. Part of "mind your own business" is don't force other people to do things they don't want to do.

Why do the bigots and nasties find such a supportive home amongst the Republicans? Allowing a transgender to use the women's restroom will result in the destruction of the Judeo-Christian culture? What facile hyperbole. What is Judeo-Christian culture when it's at home anyway? Some 9th Grade Social Studies curriculum parroted by a bespecled good 'Christian' woman in the mid 20th C when you wore short pants? I think you were also the one who claimed that the principle of 'mind your own business' was in the Magna Carta. Continue to live in your little world, a construct of outmoded and discredited values. You diminish the word ethics by the way you toss it around in your ideologically perverse usage.

Just so amusing when bigots complain about being called bigots. None of your rant has any relation to or bearing on the issue of LGBT non discrimination. Let the people who do not allow fear to stoke their bigotry discuss this one. Come back when you've talked to an LGBT person and have some empathy for other human beings.

Edited November 7, 2015 by lostboy

[up2u2]

What amazes me is that there was actually a requirement to vote on excluding discrimination against a person based on their sexual orientation. Even more amazing that it was decided to continue discriminating against a person because of their sexual orientation.

The arguments against the ordinance are just bizarre.

[squarethecircle]

"Why are you bringing paedophilia into the argument, unless your intent is to besmirch the cause of those who stand for tolerance by equating them with this vile, cheap slur?"

Well the point is that LGBT mafia opposes discrimination in all forms and certainly went too far in standing behind some of its pedophilia inclined members. There has been much trash-talking of the Bible Belt on here but wanted to point out that the author of "The Pedophile's Guide to Love and Pleasure", Phillip Greaves, was tolerated inside his home state of Colorado, but he published this guide on Amazon in 2010 and a Bible Belt sheriff found it and had his detectives order it, then extradited Mr. Greaves and prosecuted him. The LGBT mafia stood behind Mr. Greaves and it took the work of the detectives of a Bible Belt sheriff to bring him to justice.
The punishment is mild, though, in my opinion - in Kenya they would be stoned to death, in San Francisco NAMBLA is enshrined with an office.

And why it's relevant: I keep seeing people claim that people who oppose the nondiscrimination ordinances are "bigots". I'd say in response there is good reason to question the intentions of those working for these ordinances, on the basis of their behavior elsewhere.

[RuamRudy]

"Why are you bringing paedophilia into the argument, unless your intent is to besmirch the cause of those who stand for tolerance by equating them with this vile, cheap slur?"

Well the point is that LGBT mafia opposes discrimination in all forms and certainly went too far in standing behind some of its pedophilia inclined members. There has been much trash-talking of the Bible Belt on here but wanted to point out that the author of "The Pedophile's Guide to Love and Pleasure", Phillip Greaves, was tolerated inside his home state of Colorado, but he published this guide on Amazon in 2010 and a Bible Belt sheriff found it and had his detectives order it, then extradited Mr. Greaves and prosecuted him. The LGBT mafia stood behind Mr. Greaves and it took the work of the detectives of a Bible Belt sheriff to bring him to justice.

The punishment is mild, though, in my opinion - in Kenya they would be stoned to death, in San Francisco NAMBLA is enshrined with an office.

And why it's relevant: I keep seeing people claim that people who oppose the nondiscrimination ordinances are "bigots". I'd say in response there is good reason to question the intentions of those working for these ordinances, on the basis of their behavior elsewhere.

I will admit to never having heard of this guy or the furore around him, but i googled his name with the word 'support' and came up with nothing. Can you point me to who is vocally supporting him?

[teatree]

So if I am biologically born as a man, but tell everyone that I think I should be a woman - then that gives me the right to enter and use bathrooms, toilets showers and changing rooms reserved for biological women?

That cannot be OK. What about the rights and personal privacy of those women? They may not share the view that the transexual/transvestite is a 'real' woman.

I don't know the answer to this problem. If I say that I believe that I am the Queen of England, does that give me the right to live in Buckingham Palace?

Have you ever heard a woman express concern about this? Is it a problem in female minds?

I don't know any transgender people, but the feeling I get when I see them on TV is that M2F people are generally well received and accepted by other women.

I have asked a lot of women what they think about transgenders going into the women's toilet and all of them voiced concerns saying they would not feel safe.

It probably would not be so much of a problem if the transgenders actually looked just like women and had the same physique, but the vast majority don't. They look like what they are - men wearing dresses - and most women are not ok with this.

[Jingthing]

Don't feed the trollish bigoted attempt to equate GLBT civil rights with child sex crimes.