Can't find in the Condo acts - short term rentals and spliting units.

[briley]

I have looked through all the condo acts trying to find a clause relating to short term rentals in a condo building.

It is my understanding that short term rentals are not allowed in a Condo, but are allowed in a Condotel. But I can not find where it says they are not allowed.

Also looking to find the clause that says you can not split a unit into a number of units, ie make a big condo unit into 3 or 4 studios. I know you can not split the title (section 12 of the condo act 2). But splitting a unit could drastically affect the value of all other units, turning a high end condo block into a student dormitory.

Any expert know the paragraph I am looking for?

[Globalist]

Regarding short term rentals, I have not seen anything in the condomunium act that governs the length of a rental contract.

The CJP of a condo building could through majority decision change the CJP bylaws to disallow short-term rental, but that's another issue.

[trogers]

I have looked through all the condo acts trying to find a clause relating to short term rentals in a condo building.

It is my understanding that short term rentals are not allowed in a Condo, but are allowed in a Condotel. But I can not find where it says they are not allowed.

Also looking to find the clause that says you can not split a unit into a number of units, ie make a big condo unit into 3 or 4 studios. I know you can not split the title (section 12 of the condo act 2). But splitting a unit could drastically affect the value of all other units, turning a high end condo block into a student dormitory.

Any expert know the paragraph I am looking for?

Look at rules on operating a hotel. Even locally owned apartments for rental are limited to offering a min. 3 months rental contract.

[blackcab]

As previously noted, you need to look at the Hotel Act.

Further, buildings over a certain height (5 floors) in Bangkok need to obtain their building permit from the department of engineering. This permission specifically states the amount of floors and the amount of units that permission is granted for. In Bangkok, owners that have disregarded that have had to remove the additions.

[KittenKong]

I think that this section possibly prohibits the subdividing of units without permission:

Section 48 A resolution on the following matters must have the votes of not less than a half of the total votes of the joint owners .....

- A permission to a joint owner to build, decorate, make a change in, alteration on or addition to his own unit at his own expenses which adversely affect the common property or the external features of the condominium, ....

In the case where the joint owners attending a meeting does not constitute the number set forth under paragraph one, a new meeting shall be summoned within fifteen days from the date of summoning the preceded meeting and that a resolution relating to the matter provided under paragraph one in this new meeting must receive the votes of not less than one third of the joint owners’ total votes.

It would certainly prohibit the addition of doors into common areas, without which the subdivision of units might not be practical.

You should check your building's by-laws as these may prohibit any modifications/renovations to the inside of a unit without prior agreement, based on drawings etc submitted in advance. Ours has this clause though it is never implemented in full.

As for short-term rentals, I believe that they are very clearly prohibited by this section:

Section 17/1 In the case where a space in the condominium is set aside as a place to carry out the business, the system on entering and exiting such area shall be specifically set up in order to prevent the disturbance on the peaceful enjoyment of the joint owners.

No person shall be permitted to engage in any trade transactions in the condominium except it is a trade transaction in the area of the condominium designated in accordance with paragraph one.

The only exceptions would be units located in an area of the building (commonly the ground floor) that has been specifically set aside as a business area by co-owner vote. Such areas can be changed by co-owner vote also, assuming you have enough people at your AGM.

As far as I know the Hotel Act just requires that places making accommodation units (rooms) available on a short-term basis should be registered/authorised, and may need to obey special fire and safety rules depending on the number of units made available for this. It doesnt specifically prohibit the use of condo units as hotel rooms.

[trogers]

I think that this section possibly prohibits the subdividing of units without permission:

Section 48 A resolution on the following matters must have the votes of not less than a half of the total votes of the joint owners .....

- A permission to a joint owner to build, decorate, make a change in, alteration on or addition to his own unit at his own expenses which adversely affect the common property or the external features of the condominium, ....

In the case where the joint owners attending a meeting does not constitute the number set forth under paragraph one, a new meeting shall be summoned within fifteen days from the date of summoning the preceded meeting and that a resolution relating to the matter provided under paragraph one in this new meeting must receive the votes of not less than one third of the joint owners total votes.

It would certainly prohibit the addition of doors into common areas, without which the subdivision of units might not be practical.

You should check your building's by-laws as these may prohibit any modifications/renovations to the inside of a unit without prior agreement, based on drawings etc submitted in advance. Ours has this clause though it is never implemented in full.

As for short-term rentals, I believe that they are very clearly prohibited by this section:

Section 17/1 In the case where a space in the condominium is set aside as a place to carry out the business, the system on entering and exiting such area shall be specifically set up in order to prevent the disturbance on the peaceful enjoyment of the joint owners.

No person shall be permitted to engage in any trade transactions in the condominium except it is a trade transaction in the area of the condominium designated in accordance with paragraph one.

The only exceptions would be units located in an area of the building (commonly the ground floor) that has been specifically set aside as a business area by co-owner vote. Such areas can be changed by co-owner vote also, assuming you have enough people at your AGM.

As far as I know the Hotel Act just requires that places making accommodation units (rooms) available on a short-term basis should be registered/authorised, and may need to obey special fire and safety rules depending on the number of units made available for this. It doesnt specifically prohibit the use of condo units as hotel rooms.

Just the part about being registered and authorised is sufficient as a ruler for a breach...

[KittenKong]

As far as I know the Hotel Act just requires that places making accommodation units (rooms) available on a short-term basis should be registered/authorised, and may need to obey special fire and safety rules depending on the number of units made available for this. It doesnt specifically prohibit the use of condo units as hotel rooms.

Just the part about being registered and authorised is sufficient as a ruler for a breach...

I looked at this before. It seems that if there are a small number of units being used for this (6, if I remember correctly) then simple registration is all that is needed. Use of condo units is not prohibited for that. And what is the penalty for non-registration? Probably quite minor.

What wasn't clear to me was whether the number of units rule applies to the whole building or to each operator. Some large buildings have many people who rent out a few units each short-term. Also, how does it apply to agencies who let out many rooms for many owners? Are they operators?

So I think that the business use section of the condo act is the best bet. It's certainly the only thing that directly applies to a Juristic Person Manager, who is the one who will need to be convinced of any illegality if you want him to act. I doubt that our JPM would know the difference between the Hotel Act and a dead fish.

Edited October 28, 2015 by KittenKong

[trogers]

As far as I know the Hotel Act just requires that places making accommodation units (rooms) available on a short-term basis should be registered/authorised, and may need to obey special fire and safety rules depending on the number of units made available for this. It doesnt specifically prohibit the use of condo units as hotel rooms.

Just the part about being registered and authorised is sufficient as a ruler for a breach...

I looked at this before. It seems that if there are a small number of units being used for this (6, if I remember correctly) then simple registration is all that is needed. Use of condo units is not prohibited for that. And what is the penalty for non-registration? Probably quite minor.

What wasn't clear to me was whether the number of units rule applies to the whole building or to each operator. Some large buildings have many people who rent out a few units each short-term. Also, how does it apply to agencies who let out many rooms for many owners? Are they operators?

So I think that the business use section of the condo act is the best bet. It's certainly the only thing that directly applies to a Juristic Person Manager, who is the one who will need to be convinced of any illegality if you want him to act. I doubt that our JPM would know the difference between the Hotel Act and a dead fish.

Or your JPM also has a few units under such an operation...?

The Hotel Act was written on the basis of converting shophouses, single houses or townhouses into inns.

I prefer using the tax authorities on such cases in condos - all about business licenses and taxation. And when they register their business, pound on them with the Condo Act...

[dotpoom]

Almost every Estate Agent I know rent condos from 1 night upwards?

Edited October 28, 2015 by dotpoom

[Maestro]

Short term rentals

There is nothing about this in the Condominium Act.

Splitting up a condominium unit

As mentioned, see Section 48 of the Condominium Act. The outside walls of your unit and the dividing walls between your unit and adjacent units are common property. Make an entrance hall within your unit, from which doors lead to separate rooms or sections of your unit, and you need no permission from the General Assembly. You are free to tear down and build subdividing walls within you own unit, unless the regulations of your condominium building impose restrictions.

[trogers]

Short term rentals

There is nothing about this in the Condominium Act.

Splitting up a condominium unit

As mentioned, see Section 48 of the Condominium Act. The outside walls of your unit and the dividing walls between your unit and adjacent units are common property. Make an entrance hall within your unit, from which doors lead to separate rooms or sections of your unit, and you need no permission from the General Assembly. You are free to tear down and build subdividing walls within you own unit, unless the regulations of your condominium building impose restrictions.

Not true. Making new walls or relocating existing ones may cause structural problems and need to be submitted for approval.

[SattahipBri]

Almost every Estate Agent I know rent condos from 1 night upwards?

That is my experience too, I have rented both condos and apartments on a daily basis

[KittenKong]

Short term rentals

There is nothing about this in the Condominium Act.

Short-term rentals are a business and the section of the Condo Act that I quoted forbids the operation of any business (trade) outside of areas specified by the co-owners in their rules and regs (by-laws). It is very clear.

[KittenKong]

Almost every Estate Agent I know rent condos from 1 night upwards?

That is my experience too, I have rented both condos and apartments on a daily basis

Indeed. But just because lots of people do it doesnt make it legal.

[Maestro]

Short term rentals

There is nothing about this in the Condominium Act.

Splitting up a condominium unit

As mentioned, see Section 48 of the Condominium Act. The outside walls of your unit and the dividing walls between your unit and adjacent units are common property. Make an entrance hall within your unit, from which doors lead to separate rooms or sections of your unit, and you need no permission from the General Assembly. You are free to tear down and build subdividing walls within you own unit, unless the regulations of your condominium building impose restrictions.

Not true. Making new walls or relocating existing ones may cause structural problems and need to be submitted for approval.

When the condo unit was first sold, it was and empty shell. Any dividing wall built within this shell and later removed does not reduce the structural stability of the building below what it was originally. The status quo ante is restored.

[trogers]

Short term rentals

There is nothing about this in the Condominium Act.

Splitting up a condominium unit

As mentioned, see Section 48 of the Condominium Act. The outside walls of your unit and the dividing walls between your unit and adjacent units are common property. Make an entrance hall within your unit, from which doors lead to separate rooms or sections of your unit, and you need no permission from the General Assembly. You are free to tear down and build subdividing walls within you own unit, unless the regulations of your condominium building impose restrictions.

Not true. Making new walls or relocating existing ones may cause structural problems and need to be submitted for approval.

When the condo unit was first sold, it was and empty shell. Any dividing wall built within this shell and later removed does not reduce the structural stability of the building below what it was originally. The status quo ante is restored.

It is not about structural stability, but about deflection of the floor slab under loads it is not designed to hold.

In beam/slab structures, beams are placed below walls to support them.

[bangkapi]

Sounds like someone is fishing around for info about how to make some money renting his condo out as several AirBnB units.

[Mencken]

Because condos here are so expansive...

I guess you could find two broke ass teachers to share a 30sqm subdivide @ 15sqm ea, share toilet.

Maybe some Romanian tourists? African families?

Both will need half balcony to smoke on though.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Mencken

[thailand49]

Sounds like someone is fishing around for info about how to make some money renting his condo out as several AirBnB units.

You hit it right on the nose buddy! Trying to turn one unit into 3 and adding more problems to those around him that might own and live in the units.

Sure you can basically modify your unit inside but what I vision is the owner want to add separate entrance for each unit added along with additional meter for electric and water.

I have not seen the contract or building rules etc... but was in Real Estate for over 25 years seen and although we are talking Thailand? I can find a clause in the Condo that say such a modification is not permitted even if the wording is not clear. Being unclear means in lawyer terms tied you up in court for years?

[trogers]

Sounds like someone is fishing around for info about how to make some money renting his condo out as several AirBnB units.

You hit it right on the nose buddy! Trying to turn one unit into 3 and adding more problems to those around him that might own and live in the units.

Sure you can basically modify your unit inside but what I vision is the owner want to add separate entrance for each unit added along with additional meter for electric and water.

I have not seen the contract or building rules etc... but was in Real Estate for over 25 years seen and although we are talking Thailand? I can find a clause in the Condo that say such a modification is not permitted even if the wording is not clear. Being unclear means in lawyer terms tied you up in court for years?

Just go for the clear point. Resubmit another EIA impact study for approval.

[KittenKong]

Sure you can basically modify your unit inside but what I vision is the owner want to add separate entrance for each unit added along with additional meter for electric and water.

I have not seen the contract or building rules etc... but was in Real Estate for over 25 years seen and although we are talking Thailand? I can find a clause in the Condo that say such a modification is not permitted even if the wording is not clear. Being unclear means in lawyer terms tied you up in court for years?

I have pointed out the exact section of the Condo Act which specifically and clearly forbids any modifications of any type being made to common areas without prior approval of the Juristic Person. This covers putting doors into corridors, or adding meters (outside the unit).

I have also pointed out that depending on your building's rules and regs (which by law must be available for all owners at the front office) it may also be necessary to obtain prior authorisation for any desired modifications inside units. This is the case in my building. You should check yours.

[thailand49]

Sure you can basically modify your unit inside but what I vision is the owner want to add separate entrance for each unit added along with additional meter for electric and water.

I have not seen the contract or building rules etc... but was in Real Estate for over 25 years seen and although we are talking Thailand? I can find a clause in the Condo that say such a modification is not permitted even if the wording is not clear. Being unclear means in lawyer terms tied you up in court for years?

I have pointed out the exact section of the Condo Act which specifically and clearly forbids any modifications of any type being made to common areas without prior approval of the Juristic Person. This covers putting doors into corridors, or adding meters (outside the unit).

I have also pointed out that depending on your building's rules and regs (which by law must be available for all owners at the front office) it may also be necessary to obtain prior authorisation for any desired modifications inside units. This is the case in my building. You should check yours.

For the record I'm not in disagreement to what you are posting and citing. But do you own in the same condo complex as the original poster since the rules might be different or not worded. I do agree that on the surface what the posters is suggesting if I was a owner and found out I would stop him in the tracks!

[Shiraz1998]

Hello Briley. If the purpose of your question is to explore ways to limit and/or manage short term rentals I will be pleased to give you my input. Conversely, if you are an owner looking to do short term rentals, I am not interested in sharing information.

I am the chairperson of several condominium committees and we have implemented effective strategies to control the "anti social behavior" of short term renters and ensure compensation is paid for property damage, . IMO, the Thailand Condominium Act (TCA) provisions are irrelevant. The Thai authorities do not enforce the TCA. The only solution is for the committee to establish AND enforce rules that ensure renters respect the rights of owners.

PM me if you want to have a discussion.

[KittenKong]

IMO, the Thailand Condominium Act (TCA) provisions are irrelevant. The Thai authorities do not enforce the TCA. The only solution is for the committee to establish AND enforce rules that ensure renters respect the rights of owners.

It's true that the Condo Act is just one more unenforced Thai law, to add to an extremely long list. However as it is law it can act as a good starting point for deciding on how the internal rules and regulations are worded.

In some buildings it would be impossible to do much against short-term rentals as owners who rent out short-term will outnumber the owner-occupiers and so will never vote for a change.

I would suggest that anyone considering buying a condo unit here for owner-occupation should avoid buildings with many short-term rented units like the plague.

[Maestro]

Removed an off-topic post and the replies to it.

[Globalist]

Short term rentals

There is nothing about this in the Condominium Act.

Short-term rentals are a business and the section of the Condo Act that I quoted forbids the operation of any business (trade) outside of areas specified by the co-owners in their rules and regs (by-laws). It is very clear.

Its not that clear actually.

CA section 17/1 is not explicitly about governing rental of the premises itself.

Furthermore, who is to decide what kind of rental is a "business" and what is not? For example, is renting out for 6 months "business", but 3 months, 1 month or 2 weeks is not? Where is the threshold?

In fact, all kinds of property rental is arguably "business", even a 5-year contract.

The CA does not seem to be an obvious legal basis for preventing "short-term rentals" (whatever that is).

It can however be prevented through changing the CJP bylaws, although the enforcement situation may be a little complex.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Globalist

[blackcab]

I think one stumbling block would be proving that payment had been made without cooperation from the person renting out the unit.

Nothing stops you inviting friends to stay...

[briley]

As OP sorry for a delay in coming back - all the normal excuses apply.

The Condo act is, as always, not totally clear. But there seems to be nothing against actually splitting a unit. Of course you can not put in an extra door without permission.

In our building it also requires permission to change the condo electric, water and sewage supply, so you can not put in an extra bathroom. Nor put in an extra meter (water or electric).

Since our building has a number of large units a line in the regulations is called for. Funny thing is most people have joined units together for larger units!

Short term rentals, a few days are more difficult. I do not want to live in a hotel from the security (too many strangers wandering about), noise (partying whilst on holiday) or any other reason.

I do not think rentals are 'running a business from the condo' will run, especially as often the rentals are run from somewhere else.

I do agree that the Condo Act is rarely enforced by the courts - but the act has given the JP and the owners a lot of power. If they are willing to excercise that power they can control what happens in their building.

Any suggestions as to wording for our regulations to stop splitting units (should be easy) and stop short term rentals (would be harder) are welcome.

Thanks for all the comments.