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NLA approves amendments to Thai-US tax agreement

BANGKOK, 30 October 2015 (NNT) - The National Legislative Assembly (NLA) voted to approve amendments to the pending international tax agreement between Thailand and the United States, in accordance with the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA).

The amendment was proposed by the Cabinet and presented to the NLA by Deputy Finance Minister Wisudhi Srisuphan.

Proposed amendments to the agreement include an extension to the agreement’s preparation period, in order for the Customs Department to make necessary changes to its IT systems, and revisions of Thai translations in the agreement.

NLA members called for a thorough review of the agreement’s translation before voting to approve the agreement, in order to avoid misinterpreting its clauses.


-- NNT 2015-10-30

[zaphod reborn]

This is extremely bad news for all U.S. ex-pats. It requires Thai banks to report all your account details and history to the IRS and other institutions to report information about assets and identities of US nationals to the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network of the IRS. In other words, if you have income or assets in a foreign country, Uncle Sam assumes you are a criminal. It's predicted that this will make foreign employers much less likely to want to hire U.S. ex-pats.

[Pib]

This is extremely bad news for all U.S. ex-pats. It requires Thai banks to report all your account details and history to the IRS and other institutions to report information about assets and identities of US nationals to the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network of the IRS. In other words, if you have income or assets in a foreign country, Uncle Sam assumes you are a criminal. It's predicted that this will make foreign employers much less likely to want to hire U.S. ex-pats.

Thailand and the U.S. reached agreement on FACTA 24 Jun 14 (last year) and Thai banks began implementing FATCA 1 Jul 14 (last year).

This is just the Thai govt dotting the i's and crossing the t's on the agreement as they have been busy with other things such as a military coup, etc.

[Stradavarius37]

This is extremely bad news for all U.S. ex-pats. It requires Thai banks to report all your account details and history to the IRS and other institutions to report information about assets and identities of US nationals to the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network of the IRS. In other words, if you have income or assets in a foreign country, Uncle Sam assumes you are a criminal. It's predicted that this will make foreign employers much less likely to want to hire U.S. ex-pats.

Utter nonsense post. Having a bank account in a non US country makes you a criminal tk the US? Lmao to swap heads Zaphod.

[Srikcir]

This is extremely bad news for all U.S. ex-pats. It requires Thai banks to report all your account details and history to the IRS and other institutions to report information about assets and identities of US nationals to the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network of the IRS. In other words, if you have income or assets in a foreign country, Uncle Sam assumes you are a criminal. It's predicted that this will make foreign employers much less likely to want to hire U.S. ex-pats.

The USA wants to VERIFY that your FBAR filings are being made and are correct. Whether you are engaged in noncompliance or criminal activity is your choice.

"It's predicted" - by who, your self? FBAR data is provided by financial institutions to cross-match with your filing. Unless you are employed also by a financial institution, the employer will have no complicity in your filings. What you do or not do with your money is between you and the taxation authority.

[Langsuan Man]

This is extremely bad news for all U.S. ex-pats. It requires Thai banks to report all your account details and history to the IRS and other institutions to report information about assets and identities of US nationals to the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network of the IRS. In other words, if you have income or assets in a foreign country, Uncle Sam assumes you are a criminal. It's predicted that this will make foreign employers much less likely to want to hire U.S. ex-pats.

The USA wants to VERIFY that your FBAR filings are being made and are correct. Whether you are engaged in noncompliance or criminal activity is your choice.

"It's predicted" - by who, your self? FBAR data is provided by financial institutions to cross-match with your filing. Unless you are employed also by a financial institution, the employer will have no complicity in your filings. What you do or not do with your money is between you and the taxation authority.

I think your are getting FBAR and FACTA mixed up

https://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Corporations/Foreign-Account-Tax-Compliance-Act-FATCA

https://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Report-of-Foreign-Bank-and-Financial-Accounts-FBAR

[IAMHERE]

This is extremely bad news for all U.S. ex-pats. It requires Thai banks to report all your account details and history to the IRS and other institutions to report information about assets and identities of US nationals to the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network of the IRS. In other words, if you have income or assets in a foreign country, Uncle Sam assumes you are a criminal. It's predicted that this will make foreign employers much less likely to want to hire U.S. ex-pats.

Utter nonsense post. Having a bank account in a non US country makes you a criminal tk the US? Lmao to swap heads Zaphod.

For years USA citizens were supposed to let the IRS know of your foriegn bank accounts on your Tax filing forms. If you didn't in the past you better now, because if you don't you are a criminal. If you had a Thai account in 2014 and didn't let the IRS know when you filed your 2014 taxes, then you are a criminal according to the IRS.

[soisanuk]

This is extremely bad news for all U.S. ex-pats. It requires Thai banks to report all your account details and history to the IRS and other institutions to report information about assets and identities of US nationals to the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network of the IRS. In other words, if you have income or assets in a foreign country, Uncle Sam assumes you are a criminal. It's predicted that this will make foreign employers much less likely to want to hire U.S. ex-pats.

At present, FACTA regulations require financial institutions in foriegn countries to report the account number, name, and balance in the account as of a specified date IF the balance is equivalent to US$50,000+; not all the details or history. FACTA reports go to the IRS which is responsible for taxation. In the absence of Thai Parliament approval of a Government agreement, many Thai Financial Institutions have entered into separate agreements with IRS to proivide this information.

FINCEN (Financial Crimes Enforcement Network) is an agency of the US Treasury Dept as is the IRS, but it is not part of the IRS. Its primary purpose is to combat money laundering. FINCEN receives the FBAR reports (required if you are subject to the requirement, e.g., US Citizen, and have an aggregate amount equivalent to US$10,000 anytime during the calendar year in foreign bank accounts) - FINCEN is also the recipient of declaration reports made to US Customs when bringing in or taking out of USA more than US$10,000 in cash or negotiable instruments and the reports by US Banks for cash transactions of more than US$10,000 or suspicious activity reports (e.g., structuring cash transactions to avoid the reportingh requirements - which is also a crime - Dennis Hastart, former Speaker of the US House just pled guilty for doing that). FINCEN maintains a database for these various reports. The information is confidential and it is shared only with law enforcement agencies - thus IRS Criminal Investigators can get the information, but not regular IRS employees.

[soisanuk]

This is extremely bad news for all U.S. ex-pats. It requires Thai banks to report all your account details and history to the IRS and other institutions to report information about assets and identities of US nationals to the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network of the IRS. In other words, if you have income or assets in a foreign country, Uncle Sam assumes you are a criminal. It's predicted that this will make foreign employers much less likely to want to hire U.S. ex-pats.

Utter nonsense post. Having a bank account in a non US country makes you a criminal tk the US? Lmao to swap heads Zaphod.

For years USA citizens were supposed to let the IRS know of your foriegn bank accounts on your Tax filing forms. If you didn't in the past you better now, because if you don't you are a criminal. If you had a Thai account in 2014 and didn't let the IRS know when you filed your 2014 taxes, then you are a criminal according to the IRS.

You are not a criminal if you don't file a report with IRS for having a Thai account -- there are thresholds for when you are required to file form 8398 which deals with financial institutions, not just bank accounts (FBAR filed with FINCEN is for reporting Foreign bank accounts - threshold is US$10,000 plus - see my post above). If you reside in USA and are single, the threshold is US$50,000 for reporting - higher if married filing jointly. If you reside outside the USA for 330 or more days during the calendar year, the threshold for reporting is US$200,000 - again higher for other filing categories. If you are not required to file a US Income Tax return, e.g., total income below US$10,150 for single, then you are not required to file form 8398 regardless of the threshold amounts.

Also, failure to file the FBAR report or form 8398 has some very draconian civil penalties.

[HerbalEd]

This is extremely bad news for all U.S. ex-pats. It requires Thai banks to report all your account details and history to the IRS and other institutions to report information about assets and identities of US nationals to the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network of the IRS. In other words, if you have income or assets in a foreign country, Uncle Sam assumes you are a criminal. It's predicted that this will make foreign employers much less likely to want to hire U.S. ex-pats.

I'm an American expat living in Thailand where I have two bank accts. and this is not "bad news" for me ... especially not "extremely bad news."

When you say "It's predicted ...." who is doing this predicting besides yourself?

Actually all US citizens themselves have been required for several years now to file any foreign bank accts. with the IRS and to report each year any income from those bank accts.

Regarding your "Uncle Sam assumes you are a criminal" statementn: If you do not notify the US IRS of your foreign bank accts., and don't yearly report any income from those accts., then indeed you are breaking US tax law.

[Dumbastheycome]

Because if the tax on interest on balances in your accounts offshore ( Thailand) are less than would be extracted at home then you owe home the difference ( Plus penalty? ) !

The implementation of reality= certain eventual death and ......taxes!

[sgtsabai]

I have never had, nor will I ever have more than 10,000 USD in my Thai bank account. There have been reports, not from Thailand, of the US counting the wife's assets as your money and penalizing the US citizen. None of the damned US guvermint's business what I have in my bank account, my wife's name or my wallet. Name me a real money launder that has been caught by this. Oh forget the banks that were laundering drug/terrorist money, too big to fail, too big to jail. They walked.

[ericthai]

This is extremely bad news for all U.S. ex-pats. It requires Thai banks to report all your account details and history to the IRS and other institutions to report information about assets and identities of US nationals to the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network of the IRS. In other words, if you have income or assets in a foreign country, Uncle Sam assumes you are a criminal. It's predicted that this will make foreign employers much less likely to want to hire U.S. ex-pats.

Utter nonsense post. Having a bank account in a non US country makes you a criminal tk the US? Lmao to swap heads Zaphod.

For years USA citizens were supposed to let the IRS know of your foriegn bank accounts on your Tax filing forms. If you didn't in the past you better now, because if you don't you are a criminal. If you had a Thai account in 2014 and didn't let the IRS know when you filed your 2014 taxes, then you are a criminal according to the IRS.

not true, the account balance needs to have exceeded $10,000 usd balance anytime during the year to require a report. also any bank accounts a US citizen has access to or a singer must be reported.

[IMA_FARANG]

This is extremely bad news for all U.S. ex-pats. It requires Thai banks to report all your account details and history to the IRS and other institutions to report information about assets and identities of US nationals to the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network of the IRS. In other words, if you have income or assets in a foreign country, Uncle Sam assumes you are a criminal. It's predicted that this will make foreign employers much less likely to want to hire U.S. ex-pats.

Utter nonsense post. Having a bank account in a non US country makes you a criminal tk the US? Lmao to swap heads Zaphod.

-------------------------------------

As I always say there is a Pro and a Con in everything.

We have those in the U.S. who champion PROgress., and move us forward.

Then of course we also have those politicians we elect to serve us in our CONgress who take us in the opposite direction.

Edited October 31, 2015 by IMA_FARANG

[jaywalker]

Here's a couple of interesting articles about FATCA.

Sovereign Man

International Man

What I think is the most criminal thing, is that US citizens, AND Green Card holders have to pay income tax from their worldwide income, even if they do not live in the USA.

I think Eritrea is the only other country in the world with such a STUPID law.

...AND that the US tax code, if printed, could fill Tampa stadium (designed to seat 80,000 people).

I know the Green Card holder thing may sound like a no-brainer, but if a holder of said card does not 'Officially Cancel' it, they risk getting tossed in the clink by the IRS, as they are still required to comply with the Byzantine US tax laws.

Edited November 1, 2015 by jaywalker

[zaphod reborn]

Wow. I am amazed by the sheep in you. You probably are the same followers who welcomed the Patriot Act, and when Snowden proved it was a trojan horse for the government to shred the Constitution, you probably all bleated, "I have nothing to hide."

Here's the truth behind FATCA. Now that the NLA has approved it (basically under the threat of financial extortion, see below), Thai financial institutions will be reporting your deposits, withdrawals and total assets to a database operated by the ever-honest IRS. And, of course, access to the database of foreign assets and financial transactions is not security-restricted. Instead, it's been nicely organized into a "google like" search database, with access given to 18 other government agencies.

FACTA: the dumbest law in history just went to the next level (October 13, 2015)

The Road to Ruin, as they say, is paved with good intentions. So I suppose the road to hell is paved in the best of intentions.

And that’s how most laws often start: with the BEST of intentions. That was certainly the case when Barack Obama signed the HIRE Act into law in 2011.

It was intended to spur job growth in the Land of the Free while the wounds of the financial crisis were still fresh. But always remember the rule of thumb with legislation: the more noble-sounding the name of a law, the more destructive its consequences. The HIRE Act did not disappoint.

Deep within its bowels fell the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act, or FATCA for short. It was a sort of ‘law within a law’, and one of the dumbest in US history. FATCA effectively commanded every single bank on the planet to enter into an information-sharing agreement with the IRS. (Well, not so much ‘information sharing’. More like ‘information giving’. Because the US government doesn’t share anything with anyone.) It all started based on a phony assumption that millions of Americans were hiding trillions of dollars in secret offshore accounts. And given how broke the US government is, they wanted every penny they were entitled to. So the plan was to turn every bank in the world into a global spy network.

Any bank that didn’t comply was threatened with a crippling 30% withholding tax on every dollar that went in, out, and through the Land of the Free.

Banks complied. And FATCA was rolled across the world. Eventually foreign governments stepped in and negotiated government-to-government information sharing agreements. The idea was that, instead of banks sharing information directly with the IRS, they would give all the information to their national governments, which would then hand everything over to the United States.

Essentially it created another layer of bureaucracy, with ‘FATCA departments’ now within finance ministries around the world. The first of these government-to-government information sharing agreements, or IGAs as they are known, went into effect on the first of this month. So FATCA truly has graduated to the next level of stupidity.

Here’s why:

Remember, the entire law was passed based on a premise that it would quickly fill the government’s empty coffers with oodles of cash. But that hasn’t happened. The government itself admits that over the last 5-6 years, government programs to eliminate offshore tax evasion have brought in $6.5 billion, or roughly $1 to $1.3 billion per year. That’s not even enough to fund the annual budget for the government’s obscure ‘Corporation for National and Community Service’.

And according to the Association of Certified Financial Crime Specialists (ACFCS), an organization specializing in tax evasion, FATCA will continue to generate roughly $800 million per year in tax revenue. Yet $800 million doesn’t even constitute a drop in the bucket anymore; it’s enough to pay about 17 hours worth of interest on the national debt. Even if ACFCS is way off and the real amount is 10x their estimate, the funds still won’t come anywhere close to what FATCA was supposed to bring in for Uncle Sam.

But it certainly raises the question—isn’t SOME money better than NO money?

No. Not when the cost is this high.

It’s not like implementing FATCA around the world is free. Banks and governments have had to incur substantial costs to comply. And those costs are ongoing. Think about it—dozens upon dozens of nations across the world have to go through the trouble to change their banking laws and privacy regulations. In some cases they might even have needed to amend their Constitutions or hold a referendum. Thousands of banks have had to suffer increased costs of compliance as well. The British government alone estimated that the cost of compliance for UK businesses would be $80 to $150 million per year. Just in one country. It’s unreal. Now imagine those same costs in France. Spain. Germany. Japan. Etc.

The costs to foreign banks and governments start to exceed the benefit to Uncle Sam very quickly. This basically qualifies as extortion. The US government made a bunch of threats, forcing banks and foreign governments to comply with its stupid law. It would be a hell of a lot easier if they had just blackmailed them all into making a donation to reduce the US federal debt, instead of creating yet another bureaucracy.

Even former IRS commissioner Steven Miller stated last year to the Securities Industry and Financial Markets Association: “I can’t even say with conviction that I’m sure, looking strictly on a cost-benefit basis, that FATCA’s. . . benefits are going to outweigh the cost.” FATCA constitutes theft. The US government is generating a little bit of revenue and the great expense of foreign banks and governments. (not to mention the thousands of Americans who have had to renounce their citizenship because of FATCA’s idiotic rules.)

It’s sad to realize that the only way the US government can generate revenue is to chase bogeymen across the world and hold foreign banks and governments hostage at the point of a gun. If tax evasion in the US really were such a massive problem (which, by the way, the data shows that’s it’s not), why don’t they just attack the root cause? The US tax code is embarrassingly antiquated. The last major revision was from the 1980s, and it doesn’t take into account globalization, the digital revolution, or anything else that’s happened in the last three decades. Instead of violence and intimidation, why not just work to streamline the tax code and make America more competitive? Sadly, this no longer enters the government psyche in the Land of the Free.

https://www.sovereignman.com/trends/fatca-the-dumbest-law-in-history-just-went-to-the-next-level-17993/?inf_contact_key=b77ff5686357d1f5de4228c27ab34689ebfe45cb7478cdfed769051f3ae81982

Edited November 1, 2015 by zaphod reborn