Thai opinion: A country where everyone is corrupt, even grandmothers

[webfact]

TELL IT AS IT IS
A country where everyone is corrupt, even grandmothers
Pornpimol Kanchanalak
Special to The Nation

BANGKOK: -- That's not a description of Thailand - not yet anyway. It was applied by a Kenyan to his own country, an East African state roughly the size of Thailand and known for its coffee and safaris. It is also the home country of US President Barack Obama's father.

In April 2014, reports emerged that President Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe, not known for parsimonious public spending, had warned his generals not to make the country like Nigeria and Kenya, "where you have to reach into your pocket to get anything done". Mugabe's statement brought an outcry within Kenya, though not against Mugabe, but over its own state of affairs.

"You are in trouble when a fellow thief accuses you of stealing," commented one Kenyan newspaper.

This week, a document was handed to a parliamentary committee in Nairobi detailing the disappearance of millions of dollars in some very "curious" government spending programmes.

The details included thousands of dollars for ordinary condom dispensers, $85 each for ballpoint pens, contracts dogged by old-fashioned bidding irregularities, laptops for schoolchildren bought from an Indian company that did not manufacture the equipment, deals to export gold signed with phantom foreign companies, and a standard-gauge railway project from Mombasa to Nairobi costing the government $5.2 billion. The latter was the largest public investment in Kenyan history but was awarded without a public bidding process to a Chinese company blacklisted for bribery by the World Bank in 2009. The chief of Transparency International in Kenya pleaded repeatedly with the government to reconsider, saying, "There is no evidence the public will be getting value for the money." But the government of President Uhuru Kenyatta, unfazed by the public outcry, seems bent on pushing the questionable projects through.

If such projects sound familiar to us Thais, it's because they are. The wheel of corruption and bribery doesn't need to be reinvented from one country to the next. The "same old, same old" tactics will do just fine.

We might recall the purchase of frangipani trees worth over Bt100 million, reminding ourselves that frangipani can be grown just by taking a cutting from the tree, sticking it in the soil and waiting. It doesn't even need to be watered.

Or the free-tablet project for primary schools might come to mind, along with the fact that the devices were of little academic use and quickly stopped working.

And the mega-rail projects? We don't have one yet, but when we do, we can only pray it's worth the public money.

It's also interesting to note that in Kenya, the word for taking bribes is the same as "to eat", just as in Thai we use the phrase "sin-bon".

The similarities do not stop there. In both countries citizens witness daylight corruption of every variety and scale, from petty graft to grand fraud. It extends to every sector - politics, police, judicial, education and labour - with every method in the book - bribery, embezzlement, theft, fraud, extortion, blackmail - and is followed by all types of corrupt gains - abuse of discretion, favouritism, nepotism and clientelism. And most brazen of all is the impunity of the country's political and business leaders.

Another similarity is the public sentiment that a "little bit" of corruption is acceptable. The reaction of a Kenyan security guard after having read about the $85 ballpoint pens was," If you're going to steal, please just steal a little."

Corruption is often compared to rape or cancer. So, by this logic, "a little rape" or "a little cancer" is all right.

The damage caused by corruption is unfathomable. Thailand was forced to grant extraterritoriality to British citizens under the Bowring treaty in 1855 because Britain had evidence of Thai government officials taking bribes and therefore could argue forcefully that its citizens would be in danger under Siam's corrupt judicial system.

Corruption undermines a country's development as well as its security. It breeds more corruption, eroding public and personal moral standards, widening and deepening the gap between the haves and have-nots, seeding extremism and worsening crises of trust. It has left many countries and societies crumbling in its wake, weakened to the point of collapse.

When President Obama visited his father's homeland in July this year, he talked about the need for Kenya to combat corruption that was holding back every aspect of economic and civil life. The US also announced a joint anti-corruption commitment with Kenya and pledged over $1 million to set up a unit to investigate graft linked to international crime networks. Whether this proves effective, or is forgotten and consigned to oblivion, only time will tell.

The irony of it all is that the global anti-corruption NGO called Transparency International owes its birth to Kenya's intractable "eating" culture. The NGO was launched in Nairobi by Peter Eigen, a former World Bank director for East Africa, who was incensed at the extent of graft in the development programmes under his watch and decided to dedicate his efforts to wrestling with this scourge of society.

Yet the issue of how we can tackle corruption effectively remains a thorny one. Robert Klitgaard, former president of California's Claremont Graduate University, points out in his book "Controlling Corruption" that corruption is bound to occur if the gains are greater than the penalty multiplied by the likelihood of being caught and prosecuted.

Food for thought, eh?

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/A-country-where-everyone-is-corrupt-even-grandmoth-30272727.html


-- The Nation 2015-11-12

[BwindiBoy]

The only people in Thailand that could attempt to "fix" Thailand are too embroiled in the corruption. The country will implode first, then a new, educated (God knows where, though) generation will have to sort things out. Thailand is definitely far from unique, but it is a country that we all have an interest in but have seen decline. We've seen how great Thailand can be - some of you still see that, and I understand that and the reasons why. It's a country that most of us can see has so much potential...but they need to change. They need to address the corruption and culture that accepts it.

Go ahead; abuse me. I expect it. However, I won't respond to any of you. I didn't write the article.

[Thai at Heart]

that corruption is bound to occur if the gains are greater than the penalty multiplied by the likelihood of being caught and prosecuted.

Well, there is rarely a penalty, so, by human nature, one might as well be corrupt, since if you aren't, someone else will be......No penalty, inevitable corruption.

Nice to see the word parsimonious in a Nation article. Hopefully, this reporter can replace Tulsathit with their far more coherent ramblings...Food for thought? Its a smorgasboard out there when it comes to corruption.

[Bluespunk]

No it's not true.

That's just hate propoganda spread by racists who can't cope with a black president of the USA.

Pathetic.

[jaywalker]

In some ways, corruption is your friend. It's the STUPID laws (traffic laws excluded) that create corruption in the first place.

Want to open & run a business? There's a bazillion STUPID laws that prompt business owners to bribe the cops to look the other way.

I considered opening a family friendly business (charter sailboat trips) out of the Ocean Marina years ago, and found out the BIB would require a monthly stipend to "not find something wrong" with what this farang was doing, so I scrapped the idea.

Yes, it was corruption that prevented new business, but at the heart of it, was a Byzantine set of laws, rules and regulations that allows them to hold a business owner's feet over the fire.

If it weren't for corruption, a lot of businesses (not all), would not be able to comply with the law = the STUPID laws (most are) become useless due to lack of enforcement and thus we see rampant corruption.

The US is one of the biggest offenders, so it's not just a Thai thing.

It's just done differently (and on a much more industrial scale) in the west, like when a former Treasury Secretary gets appointed to the board of some Wall Street bank and pays himself a $50 million salary even though his bank screwed bond holders & share holders.

Edited November 12, 2015 by jaywalker

[BSJ]

No it's not true.

That's just hate propoganda spread by racists who can't cope with a black president of the USA.

Pathetic.

Cumon man, their Obama's own words. And the health dept in Hawaii (democrat state) that has control of the birth records is covering it up as well! I am Australian so it's not my fight, but you can't change history!

Listen at the 22 second mark: "I come from Kenya " a common way to say he was born in Kenya. https://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDYQuAIwBGoVChMIiN7njs-JyQIVI-emCh3N9wa_&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DcQcd41RO25k&usg=AFQjCNHuXMwSoRHf8OkmNV8ddwrEtsM8Jw&sig2=tEcsuhHSaYs0l1IdVldvnA

I was born in Australia but when a Thai person asks me were I from? I say "I come from Australia"....and do the dinjo thing cos the often think I come from Austria! It's just easier than trying to explain in Thaiglish there's a country next to Indonesia called Australia.

[smutcakes]

"You are in trouble when a fellow thief accuses you of stealing,"

This is the comment which makes the whole Thai shenanigans so tragic. The only slightly more tragic thing is that there were so many "educated" people who were conned into believing it was about corruption/reform.

Makes you wonder whether its actually the "educated" ones who should have their voting suspended for being to gullible and easily influenced rather than the 'uneducated' masses.

[jaywalker]

No it's not true.

That's just hate propoganda spread by racists who can't cope with a black president of the USA.

Pathetic.

Cumon man, their Obumers own words. And the health dept in Hawaii (democrat state) that has control of the birth records is covering it up as well! I am Australian so it's not my fight, but you can't change history!

Listen at the 22 second mark: "I come from Kenya " a common way to say he was born in Kenya. https://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDYQuAIwBGoVChMIiN7njs-JyQIVI-emCh3N9wa_&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DcQcd41RO25k&usg=AFQjCNHuXMwSoRHf8OkmNV8ddwrEtsM8Jw&sig2=tEcsuhHSaYs0l1IdVldvnA

I was born in Australia but when a Thai person asks me were I from? I say "I come from Australia"....and do the dinjo thing cos the often think I come from Austria! It's just easier than trying to explain in Thaiglish there's a country next to Indonesia called Australia.

HAHA! I'm from the US & my wife is from Surin. I've been to 6 continents, my wife has been to 5 or 6 countries.

A few years ago when my daughter was about 7, she had a little ball with the globe printed on it.

She came running outside & asked me to show her where Australia was, as she had just seen some kangaroos on TV.

At least her mom was honest, ... she didn't know, so she sent the kid to ask me. Now they both know.

--------------------------

Obama is DEFINTELY half Kenyan. His mother was Caucasian citizen of the USA that liked to burn diesel.

Calling someone a racist over stating a well known fact is just sad. Makes me think the person saying it is the true racist.

Edited November 12, 2015 by jaywalker

[ezzra]

In Thailand, corruption is the norm rather than the exception... youngsters are being taught from young

age that there is more than one way of doing business in Thailand, you have the honest way, which

is long and tedious, and you have the grease the palms way, easy and fast, and should you son, ever

get into troubles, fear not, under the table will fix it all, and so they grow up, in an environment that has

been pre planted in their psyche that corruption is very ok....

[waldroj]

At least in Kenya, there was an outcry. Here, there is just a 'mai bpen rai'.

[deckape]

I sailed to Kenya on a bulk freighter. The Captain had to have $50,000 usd in his safe for bribes. Pffft.

[chainarong]

In all honesty there is corruption and there is corruption , I have too seen a decline , but that is in morals area not so much the corruption, when you say corruption in Thai , is it corruption or a way of life , now I know if when leaving the hotel if I give the Bellboy 100 baht I know the next time he will also be their to carry my bags into the Hotel and up to the room , if I pay the mechanical supervisor at the car garage 100 baht I know the next time I will get favoured treatment , the question, is all that so bad, if I give a 50 baht tip at a restaurant next time I get a table near the topples waitress counter , but, what if someone in authority is milking the system to the sum of hundreds of thousands of Baht , or loan funds are being diverted from new water wells into a bank account, there's corruption and corruption , the lower end of the scale is great the top end is criminal, for the layperson if you work the system and can afford it , Thailand is great , I rest my case....................

[Emster23]

I get your point Chainarong, but a tip is not a bribe. Bribe: "persuade (someone) to act in one's favor, typically illegally or dishonestly, by a gift of money or other inducement.

I can understand writer thought best to use Africa as example, perhaps feared "attitude adjustment" if spoke directly.

I swear the Obama haters are as bad as the "Thaksin! Thaksin!" crowd. Maybe they are the same crowd. This article is about corruption in Thailand, not origin of USA President.

[soalbundy]

No it's not true.

That's just hate propoganda spread by racists who can't cope with a black president of the USA.

Pathetic.

Cumon man, their Obumers own words. And the health dept in Hawaii (democrat state) that has control of the birth records is covering it up as well! I am Australian so it's not my fight, but you can't change history!

Listen at the 22 second mark: "I come from Kenya " a common way to say he was born in Kenya. https://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDYQuAIwBGoVChMIiN7njs-JyQIVI-emCh3N9wa_&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DcQcd41RO25k&usg=AFQjCNHuXMwSoRHf8OkmNV8ddwrEtsM8Jw&sig2=tEcsuhHSaYs0l1IdVldvnA

I was born in Australia but when a Thai person asks me were I from? I say "I come from Australia"....and do the dinjo thing cos the often think I come from Austria! It's just easier than trying to explain in Thaiglish there's a country next to Indonesia called Australia.

HAHA! I'm from the US & my wife is from Surin. I've been to 6 continents, my wife has been to 5 or 6 countries.

A few years ago when my daughter was about 7, she had a little ball with the globe printed on it.

She came running outside & asked me to show her where Australia was, as she had just seen some kangaroos on TV.

At least her mom was honest, ... she didn't know, so she sent the kid to ask me. Now they both know.

--------------------------

Obama is DEFINTELY half Kenyan. His mother was Caucasian citizen of the USA that liked to burn diesel.

Calling someone a racist over stating a well known fact is just sad. Makes me think the person saying it is the true racist.

No just your average PC conformist. Even some politicians in the UK are now saying this PC thing has got out of control, you cant refer to a blackboard in the classroom as such now, it's a chalk board.

[saminoz]

No it's not true.

That's just hate propoganda spread by racists who can't cope with a black president of the USA.

Pathetic.

Cumon man, their Obumers own words. And the health dept in Hawaii (democrat state) that has control of the birth records is covering it up as well! I am Australian so it's not my fight, but you can't change history!

Listen at the 22 second mark: "I come from Kenya " a common way to say he was born in Kenya. https://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDYQuAIwBGoVChMIiN7njs-JyQIVI-emCh3N9wa_&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DcQcd41RO25k&usg=AFQjCNHuXMwSoRHf8OkmNV8ddwrEtsM8Jw&sig2=tEcsuhHSaYs0l1IdVldvnA

I was born in Australia but when a Thai person asks me were I from? I say "I come from Australia"....and do the dinjo thing cos the often think I come from Austria! It's just easier than trying to explain in Thaiglish there's a country next to Indonesia called Australia.

HAHA! I'm from the US & my wife is from Surin. I've been to 6 continents, my wife has been to 5 or 6 countries.

A few years ago when my daughter was about 7, she had a little ball with the globe printed on it.

She came running outside & asked me to show her where Australia was, as she had just seen some kangaroos on TV.

At least her mom was honest, ... she didn't know, so she sent the kid to ask me. Now they both know.

--------------------------

Obama is DEFINTELY half Kenyan. His mother was Caucasian citizen of the USA that liked to burn diesel.

Calling someone a racist over stating a well known fact is just sad. Makes me think the person saying it is the true racist.

You are so right JW. BluesPunk has a mighty chip on his/her shoulder and always rushes to defend the (sometimes) indefensible if it has the slightest chance to skew the topic to a racist agenda.

Sadly, he/she is one of the many black/disadvantaged people who cannot ever seem to see racism as a two way street!

Try being a white man in Nigeria, for example, to see true racism in action. It's also pretty common here in Thailand but it generally goes under the guise of xenophobia.

Safest to ignore BP's own racist agenda and put it down to him/her having had a Thai level of education I guess.

Obama is half Kenyan, end of story. I don't see how that detracts from him being a good or bad President but, as a non-US citizen, it is surely sad to see him see him sell out to big business and to not be the "Black Messiah" that many of BP's ethnic group were hoping for!

Sad really!

Edited November 12, 2015 by saminoz

[Bluespunk]

No it's not true.

That's just hate propoganda spread by racists who can't cope with a black president of the USA.

Pathetic.

Cumon man, their Obama's own words. And the health dept in Hawaii (democrat state) that has control of the birth records is covering it up as well! I am Australian so it's not my fight, but you can't change history!

Listen at the 22 second mark: "I come from Kenya " a common way to say he was born in Kenya. https://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDYQuAIwBGoVChMIiN7njs-JyQIVI-emCh3N9wa_&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DcQcd41RO25k&usg=AFQjCNHuXMwSoRHf8OkmNV8ddwrEtsM8Jw&sig2=tEcsuhHSaYs0l1IdVldvnA

I was born in Australia but when a Thai person asks me were I from? I say "I come from Australia"....and do the dinjo thing cos the often think I come from Austria! It's just easier than trying to explain in Thaiglish there's a country next to Indonesia called Australia.

He's American.

Born American.

Whole life spent as an American.

Deal with it.

[Bluespunk]

No it's not true.

That's just hate propoganda spread by racists who can't cope with a black president of the USA.

Pathetic.

Cumon man, their Obumers own words. And the health dept in Hawaii (democrat state) that has control of the birth records is covering it up as well! I am Australian so it's not my fight, but you can't change history!

Listen at the 22 second mark: "I come from Kenya " a common way to say he was born in Kenya. https://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDYQuAIwBGoVChMIiN7njs-JyQIVI-emCh3N9wa_&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DcQcd41RO25k&usg=AFQjCNHuXMwSoRHf8OkmNV8ddwrEtsM8Jw&sig2=tEcsuhHSaYs0l1IdVldvnA

I was born in Australia but when a Thai person asks me were I from? I say "I come from Australia"....and do the dinjo thing cos the often think I come from Austria! It's just easier than trying to explain in Thaiglish there's a country next to Indonesia called Australia.

HAHA! I'm from the US & my wife is from Surin. I've been to 6 continents, my wife has been to 5 or 6 countries.

A few years ago when my daughter was about 7, she had a little ball with the globe printed on it.

She came running outside & asked me to show her where Australia was, as she had just seen some kangaroos on TV.

At least her mom was honest, ... she didn't know, so she sent the kid to ask me. Now they both know.

--------------------------

Obama is DEFINTELY half Kenyan. His mother was Caucasian citizen of the USA that liked to burn diesel.

Calling someone a racist over stating a well known fact is just sad. Makes me think the person saying it is the true racist.

I said the lie that President Obama is not American is a lie spread by racists.

I said that because it's the truth.

The truth is out there but the lies are all in our heads.

[TheKnave]

Thai grandmothers are corrupt, too.

Mine used to chop vegetables in my local Thai restaurant, only interrupted by the local Lao girls coming by to pay the weekly interest on the money she loaned them.

And, no, I'm not Thai, but she adopted me here in the US...

[Bluespunk]

No it's not true.

That's just hate propoganda spread by racists who can't cope with a black president of the USA.

Pathetic.

Cumon man, their Obumers own words. And the health dept in Hawaii (democrat state) that has control of the birth records is covering it up as well! I am Australian so it's not my fight, but you can't change history!

Listen at the 22 second mark: "I come from Kenya " a common way to say he was born in Kenya. https://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDYQuAIwBGoVChMIiN7njs-JyQIVI-emCh3N9wa_&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DcQcd41RO25k&usg=AFQjCNHuXMwSoRHf8OkmNV8ddwrEtsM8Jw&sig2=tEcsuhHSaYs0l1IdVldvnA

I was born in Australia but when a Thai person asks me were I from? I say "I come from Australia"....and do the dinjo thing cos the often think I come from Austria! It's just easier than trying to explain in Thaiglish there's a country next to Indonesia called Australia.

HAHA! I'm from the US & my wife is from Surin. I've been to 6 continents, my wife has been to 5 or 6 countries.

A few years ago when my daughter was about 7, she had a little ball with the globe printed on it.

She came running outside & asked me to show her where Australia was, as she had just seen some kangaroos on TV.

At least her mom was honest, ... she didn't know, so she sent the kid to ask me. Now they both know.

--------------------------

Obama is DEFINTELY half Kenyan. His mother was Caucasian citizen of the USA that liked to burn diesel.

Calling someone a racist over stating a well known fact is just sad. Makes me think the person saying it is the true racist.

No just your average PC conformist. Even some politicians in the UK are now saying this PC thing has got out of control, you cant refer to a blackboard in the classroom as such now, it's a chalk board.

Nothing I said was racist or PC, just the truth.

Or is the truth now a PC trait in the minds of the PC paranoids?

Edited November 12, 2015 by Bluespunk

[Bluespunk]

No it's not true.

That's just hate propoganda spread by racists who can't cope with a black president of the USA.

Pathetic.

Cumon man, their Obumers own words. And the health dept in Hawaii (democrat state) that has control of the birth records is covering it up as well! I am Australian so it's not my fight, but you can't change history!

Listen at the 22 second mark: "I come from Kenya " a common way to say he was born in Kenya. https://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDYQuAIwBGoVChMIiN7njs-JyQIVI-emCh3N9wa_&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DcQcd41RO25k&usg=AFQjCNHuXMwSoRHf8OkmNV8ddwrEtsM8Jw&sig2=tEcsuhHSaYs0l1IdVldvnA

I was born in Australia but when a Thai person asks me were I from? I say "I come from Australia"....and do the dinjo thing cos the often think I come from Austria! It's just easier than trying to explain in Thaiglish there's a country next to Indonesia called Australia.

HAHA! I'm from the US & my wife is from Surin. I've been to 6 continents, my wife has been to 5 or 6 countries.

A few years ago when my daughter was about 7, she had a little ball with the globe printed on it.

She came running outside & asked me to show her where Australia was, as she had just seen some kangaroos on TV.

At least her mom was honest, ... she didn't know, so she sent the kid to ask me. Now they both know.

--------------------------

Obama is DEFINTELY half Kenyan. His mother was Caucasian citizen of the USA that liked to burn diesel.

Calling someone a racist over stating a well known fact is just sad. Makes me think the person saying it is the true racist.

You are so right JW. BluesPunk has a mighty chip on his/her shoulder and always rushes to defend the (sometimes) indefensible if it has the slightest chance to skew the topic to a racist agenda.

Sadly, he/she is one of the many black/disadvantaged people who cannot ever seem to see racism as a two way street!

Try being a white man in Nigeria, for example, to see true racism in action. It's also pretty common here in Thailand but it generally goes under the guise of xenophobia.

Safest to ignore BP's own racist agenda and put it down to him/her having had a Thai level of education I guess.

Obama is half Kenyan, end of story. I don't see how that detracts from him being a good or bad President but, as a non-US citizen, it is surely sad to see him see him sell out to big business and to not be the "Black Messiah" that many of BP's ethnic group were hoping for!

Sad really!

The lie that President Obama is not American is a lie spread by racists.

[tigermoth]

In all honesty there is corruption and there is corruption , I have too seen a decline , but that is in morals area not so much the corruption, when you say corruption in Thai , is it corruption or a way of life , now I know if when leaving the hotel if I give the Bellboy 100 baht I know the next time he will also be their to carry my bags into the Hotel and up to the room , if I pay the mechanical supervisor at the car garage 100 baht I know the next time I will get favoured treatment , the question, is all that so bad, if I give a 50 baht tip at a restaurant next time I get a table near the topples waitress counter , but, what if someone in authority is milking the system to the sum of hundreds of thousands of Baht , or loan funds are being diverted from new water wells into a bank account, there's corruption and corruption , the lower end of the scale is great the top end is criminal, for the layperson if you work the system and can afford it , Thailand is great , I rest my case....................

Leaving the bellboy 100bht, the mechanic 100bht or any other person performing a service for you is not corruption, wake up and read the definition of the word. Even if I don't see these people ever again as long as I have been completely satisfied with their service it is my perogative to reward them.

[Aussieroaming]

One word sums up this story...greed

[jaywalker]

You are so right JW. BluesPunk has a mighty chip on his/her shoulder and always rushes to defend the (sometimes) indefensible if it has the slightest chance to skew the topic to a racist agenda.

HAHA! I'm from the US & my wife is from Surin. I've been to 6 continents, my wife has been to 5 or 6 countries.

A few years ago when my daughter was about 7, she had a little ball with the globe printed on it.

She came running outside & asked me to show her where Australia was, as she had just seen some kangaroos on TV.

At least her mom was honest, ... she didn't know, so she sent the kid to ask me. Now they both know.

--------------------------

Obama is DEFINTELY half Kenyan. His mother was Caucasian citizen of the USA that liked to burn diesel.

Calling someone a racist over stating a well known fact is just sad. Makes me think the person saying it is the true racist.

Sadly, he/she is one of the many black/disadvantaged people who cannot ever seem to see racism as a two way street!

Try being a white man in Nigeria, for example, to see true racism in action. It's also pretty common here in Thailand but it generally goes under the guise of xenophobia.

Safest to ignore BP's own racist agenda and put it down to him/her having had a Thai level of education I guess.

Obama is half Kenyan, end of story. I don't see how that detracts from him being a good or bad President but, as a non-US citizen, it is surely sad to see him see him sell out to big business and to not be the "Black Messiah" that many of BP's ethnic group were hoping for!

Sad really!

The lie that President Obama is not American is a lie spread by racists.

Seems to me the racist is the person who hi-jacked this thread & mention Obama in the first place.

Nobody on this thread has ever said he was not a natural born American citizen, with at least one American parent, and he was born on American soil.

You are the one using 'racist' in every post you make on this thread.

By the way, even though I believe the US is beyond fixing, I honestly believe Dr. Ben Carson is the best candidate out there right now.

Not because he's black, white, or purple with pink polka-dots. I just think he's a level headed, intelligent man with conservative beliefs.

Defending the most liberal president in the history of the USA because of his skin color, and immediately attacking those who dare say anything about the man (because of his skin color), is about as racist as one can possibly get.

[mr jim]

The only people in Thailand that could attempt to "fix" Thailand are too embroiled in the corruption. The country will implode first, then a new, educated (God knows where, though) generation will have to sort things out. Thailand is definitely far from unique, but it is a country that we all have an interest in but have seen decline. We've seen how great Thailand can be - some of you still see that, and I understand that and the reasons why. It's a country that most of us can see has so much potential...but they need to change. They need to address the corruption and culture that accepts it.

Go ahead; abuse me. I expect it. However, I won't respond to any of you. I didn't write the article.

Why would anybody abuse your post? I agree with most of it. I doubt there will be an implosion however. I recently had a lengtthy conversation with eight or nine new police recruits. I mentioned many aspects of Thailand and corruption was the main topic. Of course they are well aware of what is happening within the force. Their answers to my questions actually heartened me. The phrase they were using was,"We are the new generation". They all, as one used this phrase. I have hope for the future here. I realise that there will be sceptics among us and that the young cops will be tempted by those above them. I honestly feel that things are going in the right direction.

[Bluespunk]

You are so right JW. BluesPunk has a mighty chip on his/her shoulder and always rushes to defend the (sometimes) indefensible if it has the slightest chance to skew the topic to a racist agenda.

HAHA! I'm from the US & my wife is from Surin. I've been to 6 continents, my wife has been to 5 or 6 countries.

A few years ago when my daughter was about 7, she had a little ball with the globe printed on it.

She came running outside & asked me to show her where Australia was, as she had just seen some kangaroos on TV.

At least her mom was honest, ... she didn't know, so she sent the kid to ask me. Now they both know.

--------------------------

Obama is DEFINTELY half Kenyan. His mother was Caucasian citizen of the USA that liked to burn diesel.

Calling someone a racist over stating a well known fact is just sad. Makes me think the person saying it is the true racist.

Sadly, he/she is one of the many black/disadvantaged people who cannot ever seem to see racism as a two way street!

Try being a white man in Nigeria, for example, to see true racism in action. It's also pretty common here in Thailand but it generally goes under the guise of xenophobia.

Safest to ignore BP's own racist agenda and put it down to him/her having had a Thai level of education I guess.

Obama is half Kenyan, end of story. I don't see how that detracts from him being a good or bad President but, as a non-US citizen, it is surely sad to see him see him sell out to big business and to not be the "Black Messiah" that many of BP's ethnic group were hoping for!

Sad really!

The lie that President Obama is not American is a lie spread by racists.

Seems to me the racist is the person who hi-jacked this thread & mention Obama in the first place.

Nobody on this thread has ever said he was not a natural born American citizen, with at least one American parent, and he was born on American soil.

You are the one using 'racist' in every post you make on this thread.

By the way, even though I believe the US is beyond fixing, I honestly believe Dr. Ben Carson is the best candidate out there right now.

Not because he's black, white, or purple with pink polka-dots. I just think he's a level headed, intelligent man with conservative beliefs.

Defending the most liberal president in the history of the USA because of his skin color, and immediately attacking those who dare say anything about the man (because of his skin color), is about as racist as one can possibly get.

Mentioned President Obama? That would be BSJ, not me then.

Said he wasn't American? BSJ again.

I responded to his prejudiced post. Or did you not bother to read that?

Many agendas out there.....

[Orac]

One word sums up this story...greed

Corruption is just a manifestation of greed and the exploitation of others and i start from the cynical position that there are very few people who can hold there head up high and say they are not susceptible. It certainly doesn't bother me as much as it should how the tuna i am eating was caught, how old the person was who made my shoes, where my oranges were grown or who actually ends up with my speeding fines.

The important thing about controlling it is the exposure of being caught and the punishment that is administered so, rather than the vague hand wringing in the article i would much prefer the author using her position as a columnist to exhort the press to better expose this deeply routed corruption that is endemic in Thailand and also use her first hand experience of how corruption is dealt with by the legal systems in first world countries to point out the failing of the institutions responsible for it here.

[ddavidovsky]

There's no point saying corruption is evil. All humans are insecure, and competitive, and strive for more. All humans cheat when they have to.

The failure is in society which needs to control corruption through governance, in the genereal interest. However, Thailand is still in the grip of a traditional system of governance that has developed to deliberately foster corruption for the advantage of the few. Everyone knows this and that provides a moral justification for everyone to be corrupt.

They need an entirely new system that cuts the ties between social status and governance - tears down that whole network. Democracy would be a good start, but only a start.

[jaywalker]

One word sums up this story...greed

Corruption is just a manifestation of greed and the exploitation of others and i start from the cynical position that there are very few people who can hold there head up high and say they are not susceptible. It certainly doesn't bother me as much as it should how the tuna i am eating was caught, how old the person was who made my shoes, where my oranges were grown or who actually ends up with my speeding fines.

The important thing about controlling it is the exposure of being caught and the punishment that is administered so, rather than the vague hand wringing in the article i would much prefer the author using her position as a columnist to exhort the press to better expose this deeply routed corruption that is endemic in Thailand and also use her first hand experience of how corruption is dealt with by the legal systems in first world countries to point out the failing of the institutions responsible for it here.

Noble thoughts....

I stand by my idea though, that over regulation of so many things (too many laws), are what leads to corruption, because without corruption, the entire economy would be at a standstill, as there are too many laws, which in turn breeds yet more and more corruption, so they make yet more laws and on it goes.

De-regulation, and more of an open market would decrease corruption.

It would create freedom instead of creating corrupt cops/politicians who just allow people to pay them to break the laws they themselves have written and are supposed to enforce.

I do believe in basic laws that make sense, such as fish and wildlife protection, traffic laws, sensible family laws, murder, rape, assault, arson, negligence and contract laws to name a few, but that about covers most everything I can think of.

However governments around the world, rarely do the right thing, as they ALL are only interested in staying in power, which usually means they will do THE EXACT OPPOSITE of the right thing.

... And to pour salt on that wound, the populaces of many countries are so indoctrinated that they would burn a "Leader" (Prime Minister/President etc) at the stake if he DID try to do the right thing.

Can you imagine if a US president tried to fire the DEA, FBI, NSA, EPA, FDA etc, eliminate the 'War on Drugs', simplified the US tax code, stopped civil forfeiture, and slashed military spending by 90%????

He'd either be assassinated or impeached swiftly, even though it would make the US far more productive and efficient in the long run.

I encourage all to watch this 16 minute video by British comedian John Oliver to see just how corruption is legally institutionalized, on an industrial scale in the "Land of the Free".

[elgordo38]

In some ways, corruption is your friend. It's the STUPID laws (traffic laws excluded) that create corruption in the first place.

Want to open & run a business? There's a bazillion STUPID laws that prompt business owners to bribe the cops to look the other way.

I considered opening a family friendly business (charter sailboat trips) out of the Ocean Marina years ago, and found out the BIB would require a monthly stipend to "not find something wrong" with what this farang was doing, so I scrapped the idea.

Yes, it was corruption that prevented new business, but at the heart of it, was a Byzantine set of laws, rules and regulations that allows them to hold a business owner's feet over the fire.

If it weren't for corruption, a lot of businesses (not all), would not be able to comply with the law = the STUPID laws (most are) become useless due to lack of enforcement and thus we see rampant corruption.

The US is one of the biggest offenders, so it's not just a Thai thing.

It's just done differently (and on a much more industrial scale) in the west, like when a former Treasury Secretary gets appointed to the board of some Wall Street bank and pays himself a $50 million salary even though his bank screwed bond holders & share holders.

The biggest thief is the Federal Reserve and the other central banks world wide.

[jaywalker]

You are so right JW. BluesPunk has a mighty chip on his/her shoulder and always rushes to defend the (sometimes) indefensible if it has the slightest chance to skew the topic to a racist agenda.

HAHA! I'm from the US & my wife is from Surin. I've been to 6 continents, my wife has been to 5 or 6 countries.

A few years ago when my daughter was about 7, she had a little ball with the globe printed on it.

She came running outside & asked me to show her where Australia was, as she had just seen some kangaroos on TV.

At least her mom was honest, ... she didn't know, so she sent the kid to ask me. Now they both know.

--------------------------

Obama is DEFINTELY half Kenyan. His mother was Caucasian citizen of the USA that liked to burn diesel.

Calling someone a racist over stating a well known fact is just sad. Makes me think the person saying it is the true racist.

Sadly, he/she is one of the many black/disadvantaged people who cannot ever seem to see racism as a two way street!

Try being a white man in Nigeria, for example, to see true racism in action. It's also pretty common here in Thailand but it generally goes under the guise of xenophobia.

Safest to ignore BP's own racist agenda and put it down to him/her having had a Thai level of education I guess.

Obama is half Kenyan, end of story. I don't see how that detracts from him being a good or bad President but, as a non-US citizen, it is surely sad to see him see him sell out to big business and to not be the "Black Messiah" that many of BP's ethnic group were hoping for!

Sad really!

The lie that President Obama is not American is a lie spread by racists.

Seems to me the racist is the person who hi-jacked this thread & mention Obama in the first place.

Nobody on this thread has ever said he was not a natural born American citizen, with at least one American parent, and he was born on American soil.

You are the one using 'racist' in every post you make on this thread.

By the way, even though I believe the US is beyond fixing, I honestly believe Dr. Ben Carson is the best candidate out there right now.

Not because he's black, white, or purple with pink polka-dots. I just think he's a level headed, intelligent man with conservative beliefs.

Defending the most liberal president in the history of the USA because of his skin color, and immediately attacking those who dare say anything about the man (because of his skin color), is about as racist as one can possibly get.

Mentioned President Obama? That would be BSJ, not me then.

Said he wasn't American? BSJ again.

I responded to his prejudiced post. Or did you not bother to read that?

Many agendas out there.....

I beg to differ, and refer you back to post #4 where you said: "No it's not true.

That's just hate propoganda spread by racists who can't cope with a black president of the USA.

Pathetic."

True you did not say Obama, you just used the words "racist" and "black president of the USA" is all.

So solly.

BTW.......I say AGAIN, I think Ben Carson is the best guy running for the job right now. I judge people on, yes what the media says, which is always biased, but my friend (retired USAF Lt. Col with a PhD.) knows Carson's brother, and tells me the guy is pretty sharp, so that sways my opinion a lot. Plus he's conservative.

I could give a rat's ass about his skin color. I think Trump is a maniac who is good at leveraging borrowed money, which is something the USA should have NEVER done in the first place, and has us owing nearly 1/3rd of all outstanding debt in the world today.

I can respect your opinions BP. Thanks for debating me a bit.

Edited November 12, 2015 by jaywalker