EU sparks row with Israel over settlement made goods labels

[Linky]

There are over 100 disputed territories in the world today, I wonder how many of them result in the E.U marking this on goods from them as disputed? In other news some European Countries have been found to be buying cheap oil from IS, flaming hypocrites.

Ahhh the old....but he murdered someone too so why cant I.... Deflection. So boring.

And the same old deflection of not addressing an issue.

The issue is quite clear: Israel settles land which is not its own.
The only ones who seem to not say "mmayyyyyyybeeeee...we should stop illegal settlements once and for all"

Yeah....and I'm asking if the EU applies the same labeling policy to all imported goods from countries involved in territorial disputes, or if this is a specific case.

Why, is there something wrong with settlements? Surly not. Israel can do no wrong and settlements are justified so they should be more than happy to have the goods labelled. Would boost sales knowing it come from a wonderful democratic country.

Wouldn't it?

[Jingthing]

Bibi made a plea Monday to Obama for US support of Israel annexing the Golan Heights. So far, Obama has refused. Lots of oil under the Golan.

There is a case to be made.

After all they ain't the GOYLAND Heights.

So solly!

[Morch]

I've had my own personal boycott of Israeli goods for the past 20 years, but someone did point out that Apple computers use Israeli made components. In high cost goods with components there should be labeling to show where the components are made.

Wonder how's that going to work out, what with the likes of Intel and Microsoft having research centers in Israel. Just an example.

Another example: 150.000 families are dependent from Israeli weapons industry. Almost 10% of Israeli population.

The average weapons sales/export per year is 7 billion USD.

With annual financial foreign aid estimated between 3-6 billion USD.

I don't even count the (illegal) oil and gas reserves and benefits.

It's not really a must for such a little tiny country to start blocking their neighbors' economy and start producing on illegal occupied territories.

You block all exports for oil, gas, foreign aid and weapons and next week you have peace...

Thanks to the Haredi's !

It's proven that you can learn even faster Linux systems and Intel has not a real monopoly by the way...

I hardly see a BDS-like campaign, mainly taken up by private citizens, as being of much relevance to any weapons industry. Most homes do not come equipped with missile silos and similar facilities. What you refer to is a hypothetical sanctions regime, which is not quite the same thing as Poster A proclaiming he will not buy stuff made in Israel. Same goes for the overblown figures and the respective topics - weapons industry, USA Aid, oil and gas - not exactly things which are directly effected by any private choice on the part of the consumer.

It was not claimed that either Intel or Microsoft is a monopoly, and the same goes for Apple (which featured in the post replied to). The point made was that It is not always easy to implement a strict personal regime of avoiding all components, products and technologies to do with Israel. Allow me to doubt that all those who proclaim adherence to this principal in fact do so, knowingly or otherwise.

[RuamRudy]

Another example: 150.000 families are dependent from Israeli weapons industry. Almost 10% of Israeli population.

The average weapons sales/export per year is 7 billion USD.

With annual financial foreign aid estimated between 3-6 billion USD.

I don't even count the (illegal) oil and gas reserves and benefits.

It's not really a must for such a little tiny country to start blocking their neighbors' economy and start producing on illegal occupied territories.

You block all exports for oil, gas, foreign aid and weapons and next week you have peace...

Thanks to the Haredi's !

It's proven that you can learn even faster Linux systems and Intel has not a real monopoly by the way...

I hardly see a BDS-like campaign, mainly taken up by private citizens, as being of much relevance to any weapons industry. Most homes do not come equipped with missile silos and similar facilities. What you refer to is a hypothetical sanctions regime, which is not quite the same thing as Poster A proclaiming he will not buy stuff made in Israel. Same goes for the overblown figures and the respective topics - weapons industry, USA Aid, oil and gas - not exactly things which are directly effected by any private choice on the part of the consumer.

It was not claimed that either Intel or Microsoft is a monopoly, and the same goes for Apple (which featured in the post replied to). The point made was that It is not always easy to implement a strict personal regime of avoiding all components, products and technologies to do with Israel. Allow me to doubt that all those who proclaim adherence to this principal in fact do so, knowingly or otherwise.

Practicalities have to be taken into consideration, especially with globalisation and the spread of technology, but raising awareness amongst the public of what small steps they can take to make a positive difference to the Palestinian situation can only be a positive thing.

Organised boycotts are very fair - it leaves the choice open to the individual as to whether they want to take part. The self appointed bastion of civil liberties in the middle east should relish the fact that people are free to make up their own minds as to whether to purchase Israeli products.

[Morch]

Western consumers demand knowing where their products come from.

Was the fish in the tin caught by slave labour?

Was this frozen chicken produced in a country that has no restrictions on hormones and anti-biotics in their poultry industry?

Is this bacon locally produced because I choose to support the local economy?

Do the Israel apologists have any issue with these sorts of concerns by the consumer?

Is it anti-Buddhist to refuse Thai fish?

Is it Vietnam-demonisation to refuse hormone-laden chicken?

Is supporting your own local producers somehow a bad thing?

Why then is the EU action antisemite, or that supporters of the action are "rabid Israel demonisers"?

I know where the hypocrisy lies, and it's not with the EU or European consumers.

Good on the EU, and hopefully the preferential treatment that they offer Israel with tariffs will be withdrawn soon too.

I do not think that the EU decision could be faulted on consumer-right-to-know grounds, and the same goes for taxing considerations.

The examples cited above,are more to do with commercial aspects, while the underlying reasoning of most posters cheering or denouncing the EU move seems to be political. Now, some may say this is a justified political course of action etc., but then what to make of the the EU taking some pains to present it in a less confrontational manner (by stressing the commercial and regulatory aspects), If this is about the EU taking a moral stand on a political issue, the question remains whether such measures are adopted with regard to all similar cases.

[Morch]

There are over 100 disputed territories in the world today, I wonder how many of them result in the E.U marking this on goods from them as disputed? In other news some European Countries have been found to be buying cheap oil from IS, flaming hypocrites.

Ahhh the old....but he murdered someone too so why cant I.... Deflection. So boring.

And the same old deflection of not addressing an issue.

What issue? What happens in other countries is off topic. Israel is the topic. Nice try

How is wondering about the general application of such regulations by the EU off topic?

[HenryB]

The EU just do not like Jews. Soon they will find out the real enemy

[Jingthing]

The EU just do not like Jews. Soon they will find out the real enemy

Well, funny that you say that.

It seems the ruling GERMAN political party gets what's going on here:

http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Politics-And-Diplomacy/Germanys-ruling-party-pans-EU-labeling-guidelines-432935

“In this case there foremost is a danger of a stigma. An anti-Israeli movement might exploit the decision and put it to use on anti-Israeli campaigns.”

...

Hardt added that the Christian Democratic Union “considers that stigmatization and boycott are not probate to facilitate the dialogue between Israel and the Palestinians.”

[Morch]

You incorrectly and probably intentionally twisted what I wrote about not stopping at the settlements. That's about the BDS movement's tactics which generally include boycotting everything from Israel, not only from the settlements. Many of them go further into vile Judeophobia and boycott anything in the world they can associate with Jewish people anywhere.

As far as "apartheid mind" let's look at the goals of even the moderate Palestinian leaders, the segment that would be satisfied with a Palestinian state and not aiming to expel and kill all the Jews of Israel. You want to see apartheid minds? Look there. They want a "Jew free" state. Israel on the other hand proudly includes about 20 percent Arab Israeli CITIZENS, both Muslim and Christian.

I would hardly say "proudly", or you have never witnessed the life of Arabs living in Israel. Their citizenship is comparable to the Indian casts, ifyou don't know it then you have a lot of homework to do, and by this i mean getting informed by other medias than the ones "pro-israel"

Israel is scared by one thing : in two or three generations, Arabs living in Israel will outnumber the jews, and therefore the government will be leaded by arabs.

Your use of the eternal "yeah why do't you yell at this country which do worse" has one explanation : Israel elect its leaders, and the CITIZENS has the power to change thi far right winged government each time an election occurs...yet they choose each time a government wich promote settlements...

Israel justice for palestians? DO we have any news of the settlers who burnt an house in Palestine? No of course and we won't.

So yes, Israel is an apartheid state, like it or not. The world is fed up of this country acting like a bully and branding anyone speaking against its politic as antisemit.

Do you say that people against Assad politic is racist toward Syrians?

Do you say that people against Putin politic is racist toward Russian?

Well it is the same for Israel. Its citizen has the choice to change the way it is and they don't do sh.t...

And about the boycott the proof it works ans scare this government, coming from a jewish journal :

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4664447,00.html

I doubt that you have much clue regarding the Arab citizens of Israel, apart, perhaps, from getting "informed" by media outlets pandering to your taste. The odd comparison to the Indian caste system is bizarre, unless there is some qualification missing (which I doubt). Arab Israeli members of parliament continuously engage in action and rhetoric defying, berating and demonizing Israel (and doing so while getting their wages paid by the state). Kindly name another country in the region which would allows minorities the same level of freedom. Arabs are not the fastest growing demographic group in Israel, and demographics in general, even though they ought to be - are not top of the list on the Israeli public's worry list.

The Israeli electorate is divided, with a leaning toward the right wing. It was not always so, and for things to change there needs to be incentives and a proper leadership to take charge of opportunities. There is no such leadership on the horizon, and with the visions of peace somewhat gloomy, people tend to stick with whatever seems to best address their immediate fears. This is a crude analysis, and there are obviously other factors involved.

After going on about hos this is being anti-Israel, kinda slipped there with the "Jewish journal". As for the link itself, would be more informative if it had any data on the actual damage caused to the economy.

[Morch]

Some 300.000 foreign workers are active in the West Bank for Israeli companies.

Palestinians are mostly refused to be employed on their own lands by the Israeli's. There are cases that underaged (-16) Palestinian boys are working with pesticides without personal protection....

Moreover, the laws and rights for these foreign workers coming from SE Asia, Africa, Eastern Europe,...are close to modern slavery.

https://www.fidh.org/IMG/pdf/il1806a.pdf

Please read annexes of the link at the end...

The EU should ban these Israeli products made in Palestinian occupied territories and with foreign labour !

The 300,000 figure refers to all foreign workers in Israel. Claiming that they all work in the West Bank is nonsense.

[Credo]

Maybe it's time to boycott the boycotters.

European stuff? Overrated.

I agree! Boycott anything made in the EU! It's probably overpriced! Just another organization (Or Government Entity) that, Taxes, taxes, & taxes, it's members)! No need for more government and for more Regulations it issues! Just a place for High Ranking Politicians from the EU Member Countries to get a Job after they have been defeated in elections from their Home Countries! What a waste of money and taxes! The World Needs less government not more!

I disagree. Products from the EU are among some of the best in the world. They are very high quality. They may suffer a downgrade if they stop using Israeli components and technology, however.

[Morch]

The settlements, illegal or not, do exist and they do produce some products and some of those products are for export. The existence or not of the settlements is definitely an issue somewhere, but the issue we're discussing here is actually about the labeling by the EU and how it's related to the international BDS movement. Also in question is if such specialized labeling is being enforced on Israel, why not the same treatment to the other regions in the world with disputed borders?

A person can easily be in opposition to the settlement movement and yet at the same time be in opposition to the EU's double standard labeling (picking on Israel, ignoring other areas with border controversies) and also in opposition to the horrific goals of the BDS movement in general. Yes, to me, the goal to end the existence of Israel is a very horrific goal.

As far as the legality of the Judea/Samaria settlements, legally yes they are illegal under international law, legal under Israeli law, and the state of Palestine which some say they are located in does not yet and may not ever exist. Obviously, that is a messy conflicted situation subject to change. I don't think many people would dispute that part of it.

Well, the issue "somewhere" is deeply linked to the labelling.

As a previous poster say, Israel has the choice to clearly advocate for settlements, and then be "proud to be labeled" or find a solution to stop the settlements.

It is not an issue "somewhere" but THE issue here, not the "horrific BDS".(people are free to boycott the products coming from what they think is an unfair and sneaky process, they are not forced into it)

As far as I know there is not anywhere in the world a region where a country settle as much in territories which are not their, rule them, expropriate them...and so much more...and elected under a democratic process.

Israel, boasting about being a beacon of democracy in middle east, has much more power to get out of this dead end..it is not ruled by an unelected leader, right?

So maybe the big companies won't give a sh.t about this labeling and BDS (even if many Israeli news and speeches say the opposite) but once the citizens are targeted where it hurts, the incomes, they will clearly turn against their leaders when elections will come.

Big companies can suffer losses and move, the small companies and individuals who where encouraged to settle will clearly let their politicians know about it

I will refer to two points raised in the post:

"Israel, boasting about being a beacon of democracy in middle east, has much more power to get out of this dead end..it is not ruled by an unelected leader, right?"

Democracies do not come in standard shapes and sizes. There are different democratic systems and different levels of democracy. Not always an all- or-nothing proposition. Some countries are more democratic than others. Israel is far more democratic than its neighbors (for example), and obviously less democratic than many Western countries. One's reference for comparison dictates how Israel's democracy is assessed. While referencing Israel's neighborhood probably sets the bar too low, a comparison to Western democracies may be unrealistic. Most Western countries do not regularly face the same level of challenges (domestic or foreign) to their democracy. The current migrant/refugee crisis in Europe is a good example - and obviously, there are various opinions on how the situation is to be addressed. The Israeli reality is an ongoing series of challenges to its democratic nature - some handled better than others, some posing hard dilemmas. Not sure that Israel's position could be easily compared with relatively peaceful and well-established Western democracies.

Being a democracy does not necessarily mean it is easier to change course. Democracies come with their coalitions, pandering for electorate support, and newly elected leaders every few years. Not always the most stable of systems, nor always focused on long term goals (as in beyond the next election or coalition crisis). Begin, Rabin and even Sharon were charismatic and strong leaders - which allowed them to pull through political moves which others could not, and even in the face of public resentment. The same applies, to even a greater degree, with regard to Sadat, Hussein and Arafat. There was a recent reference to this issue by Daniel Kahneman, to the effect that there likely not going to be a mass popular movement advocating concessions on either side, and that such moves are more likely to be carried out by leaders (the interview could be found here - http://www.haaretz.com/peace/1.685314, as a part of the Israel Conference on Peace Project - many interesting articles, interview and panels on related issues). Considering the current leaderships and the apparent next crop, things look dismal.

"....but once the citizens are targeted where it hurts, the incomes, they will clearly turn against their leaders when elections will come"

There is not much argument within Israel that Netanyahu weakest point is the economy. Not talking about Big Business, Macro statistics and the like, but on how things are for most citizens. This is nothing new,, and Netanyahu keeps getting elected. Why? Because people are still more worried about their immediate security, and do not trust promises of change. Opposition leaders are not perceived as being much better on economy and as potentially worse on security. Above all, there is a certain level of public disconnect when it comes to view on the relationship between the ongoing occupation, the security situation and the economic conditions. To a point, there is some logic to it - rosy promises of peace and prosperity seem hollow next to the present stark reality.

If one looks at the Palestinians, it becomes even more obvious that this notion does not apply. Considering the destruction and economic hardship visited upon the Gaza Strip and its residents, they ought to be ousting the Hamas leadership, and yet they do not. Hamas approval ratings remain pretty constant over time. The so-called resistance is indeed futile, not to mention detrimental to Gaza's residents welfare. And yet....

External threats tend to bind people together, get more tribal, and go for the familiar. Connecting the dots between political actions and economic results is not always that easy for everyone, and does not always end with the same picture.

[Morch]

Utter nonsense, Palestinians working in Israeli settlements receive approximately twice the average pay they would receive working in Palestinian authority controlled areas. Little wonder the average Palestinian worker is not in favour of BDS. But hurting Palestinians is of no concern to one issue anti-Israel activists who in trying to cut economic ties between Israelis and Palestinians do nothing but undermine a two state solution they pretend to favour.

P.s and about your totally discredited NGO, seeing as you yourself are such an avid source policeman.

http://www.ngo-monitor.org/article/international_federation_of_human_rights_fidh_paris_

But hurting Palestinians is of no concern to one issue anti-Israel activists who in trying to cut economic ties...

More an extortion than any economic ties: I take your land, exploit its ressources and hire you because you re cheap, or you can go home and be jobless

That is a fine political statement, but it does not change the fact that hurting the Israeli economy will have an effect on the Palestinians as well.

Members who readily volunteer the Palestinian's economic welfare (such as it is) going down that road, will probably be among the first to blame Israel when further economic hardship will befall the Palestinians.

Wonder what would have happen if the EU was to offer Israeli businesses in the West Bank a waver from labeling, provided they employed Palestinians on equal terms to employees within Israel.

[Morch]

Why, is there something wrong with settlements? Surly not. Israel can do no wrong and settlements are justified so they should be more than happy to have the goods labelled. Would boost sales knowing it come from a wonderful democratic country.

Wouldn't it?

Barking up the wrong tree. You are welcome to check my posting history. Can't recall expressing support for the Illegal Israeli settlement effort in the West Bank,

As said earlier, no much issues with labeling on grounds of consumer-right-to-know and/or proper taxing - fair enough. If it is implemented as a way of applying political pressure through economic means (which the EU seems to officially deny), then asking whether Israel is singled out or this being an instance of a wider, generally enforced policy is a valid question. Raising the point does not effect the illegality of the Israeli settlements in the West Bank. Posters question many of the EU policies on a variety of subjects, and this one seems pretty standard to me.

Hopefully this reply would help curb spamming the post above.

[Morch]

There is a big trend in the world of wine away from cork. A metal cap does not indicate a poor wine any more than a corked wine indicates a fine one.

Could be, guess I don't place much faith in it, though. But it would never ever feel the same. Twisting off a cap, uncorking a bottle - think I'll stick with them old ways.

[Morch]

Wine from Israel..., with aluminium tops...now THIS is Funny...

So one more product which comes from illegal land stealing...

A strange propaganda, considering most of the export is for the USA (so you can even label it comes from Yehovah's blood Himself) and its most expensive wine tops around 100$ (except some real old ones)...

Most european people are against settlements I highly doubt of its sells there, it is probably not even exported there

The funniest part is each bottle of wine is a french advertising as 90% of the grape variety come from there...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_wine#Assessment_by_wine_critics

http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-israeli-wine-exports-rose-10-in-2014-1001004088

There are some decent wines coming from Israel (or in some cases, to keep it on topic, from the Golan Heights or the West Bank), and they are definitely exported to Europe as well. This is partly due to the Jewish market share, which goes for Kosher wines, but not just (there are many non-kosher wines from Israel). I think Air France used an Israeli wine for a while, some years back. Either way, compared to similar wines from larger producing countries, prices for quality are atrocious and prices for reasonable are high.

Quite a few vineyards on the Golan Heights and on the West Bank, question is if labeling relevant wines will effect sales in Europe. Probably, guess that people tend to pay a little more attention when they buy wine. But then Europe is a tough market anyway,

[tomwct]

The EU just do not like Jews. Soon they will find out the real enemy

You are Right On! The world is waking up today and Obama's "JV Team (Junior Varsity):, aka Alqueda is in control. Lets not worry about Israel, but

Islamists all over the World. Israel is the only democracy in the region and the EU, UN and Obama keep putting it down! What about the Soviet

Plane, bombed by Obama's "JV" Team! Their having a good 30 days. Where is next? It's coming though! In your neighborhood? Maybe?

I think this has sealed Obama's History as an Incompetent President and dooms the Socialist Democratic Party in America to a HUGE Loss

next November!

God Bless America & the World

[Pakboong]

There is a big trend in the world of wine away from cork. A metal cap does not indicate a poor wine any more than a corked wine indicates a fine one.

Could be, guess I don't place much faith in it, though. But it would never ever feel the same. Twisting off a cap, uncorking a bottle - think I'll stick with them old ways.

So far I have not found a spoiled bottle with the newer screw on caps. Found plenty that were corked. Especially true here in Thailand where bottles are improperly stored.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Pakboong

[Ulysses G.]

 

The EU just do not like Jews. Soon they will find out the real enemy

The REAL enemy - radical Islam - is not placated by the EU's restrictions on settlement goods. They just announced that appeasement does not work by their actions in France.

[Steely Dan]

Perhaps the EU should instruct ISIS to label their oil clearly as a product of the Caliphate. That would at least give customers a choice whether to buy products from a regime that practices sex slavery as well as Sharia law, which is antithetical to human rights. I think we should be told.

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/europe/13893-eu-ambassador-to-iraq-accuses-european-countries-of-purchasing-oil-from-islamic-state

[Morch]

There is a big trend in the world of wine away from cork. A metal cap does not indicate a poor wine any more than a corked wine indicates a fine one.

Could be, guess I don't place much faith in it, though. But it would never ever feel the same. Twisting off a cap, uncorking a bottle - think I'll stick with them old ways.

So far I have not found a spoiled bottle with the newer screw on caps. Found plenty that were corked. Especially true here in Thailand where bottles are improperly stored.

Not contesting that the technology might be an improvement, simply rejecting it on grounds of being old-fashioned and appreciating them little ceremonies (like uncorking a fine wine bottle). The way wine bottles are treated on some Thai venues is indeed a shame, hence doing my best to avoid buying in-country. Not too easy on a regular basis. Wouldn't know that ruining a screw capped bottle of wine is beyond said storage practices.