Thai officials to slash number of foreign English teachers

[selftaopath]

I can see Thailand asking ASEAN to carry on without it for another 2 - 5 years or so while it gets its act together.

That fast? :-)

[Artisi]

I never suggested it was ideal. It is already clear Thailand for the most part isn't willing to pay the price for highly qualified native English speaking teachers. But I don't see how a trained teacher who can't speak English can possibly teach English to anyone.

The problem is, a teacher who isn't specifically trained in pedagogy and methodology, and possibly even child or adolescent psychology (or at least "psychology of learning") can actually do great harm to students. I agree a trained teacher who isn't actually trained in the subject that he or she is expected to teach (in this case English as a language for genuine communication) can't possibly teach English to anyone. However, a native English speaker without educational training can create bad habits in students without understanding how to correct them or excise them later. Sometimes I allow students to pick up bad habits very early on to more rapidly increase their ability to communicate thoughts, beliefs, desires, and goals, but I do so with a planned outcome of excising them later. This requires both training AND years of experience to implement.

Sometimes native English "teachers" do more harm than good.

Pure academic nonsense - anything is better than the absolute rubbish passing as English languge teaching by the majority of Thai language teachers.

[selftaopath]

Honestly, native English speaking teachers don't need to be very expensive. Make the visa situation easier for them and many young native English speakers will want to do this for at least a few years just for the adventure. Yes, I'm saying they're willing to be exploited and it seems daft to me not to take advantage of that for the good of the future of Thailand. Yes, Thailand would benefit with better English.

Yes I understand just being a native English speaker doesn't make you a good teacher.

But I happen to think a native English speaker with even basic training in teaching is better than a trained teacher who can't really speak English.

I know foreign born "teachers" here who's salary is a/b Bt 50,000 a month and "work" 14 hours a WEEK.

[samuibeachcomber]

Is this all about false pride?................it cant be about money as most native english speaking teachers are n't paid very well.Better earnings to be had in korea,china and japan.

Or is it more about keeping the population ignorant,cos with out good language/computer skills thais will continue to receive subsistence wages.

Thai english teachers are notably poor teachers because they are lazy and cannot be bothered to get a grasp of the grammar, so necessary for good communication.We know this cos the thai language is lazy and basic within itself.

[Caitrin]

Japan and Korea have reduced their costs of native speakers of English as instructors by implementing a program aimed at unemployed recent college graduates of english in english speaking countries. It is called Jet in Japan. Japanese English Teacher. They make it look like the kids who graduated from college in the USA in English and Arts have won something after college! They give them a plane ticket and room and subsistence wages for 1 or 2 years with a limited English teacher work visa and place them in schools that request the service. And they supply enough work teaching English to CHOKE A HORSE. The English speaking kids just graduating from college like it. They feel they are getting one up on college graduates that spend the 1 or 2 gap years (time between undergrad and graduate school) playing video games and watching TV at Mom and Dad's. The Korean and Japanese students and school kids like it cause they get young motivated kids that want to teach English (not boozed and drugged up late middle-aged sex pervs). So hats off to Korea and Japan for finding a win-win and filling their countries with good young high quality english teachers. And once again Thailand? Oh my another bad policy announcement that will later back fire, later be denied, later be reversed, later we will get a claim it was a previous governments decision. Yeah that should do it.

Having worked in both programs, and served as an advisor to the JET Programme, you've mischaracterised them. First JET stands for Japan Exchange and Teaching, not Japanese English Teacher. In fact, that would be confusing, because native Japanese speaking teachers of English are known as JTEs, or Japanese Teachers of English. EPIK/GEPIK (the English Programme in Korea, or the Goyanggi-do English Programme in Korea) is essentially the same thing. Until recently wages were far above subsistence level, even in Japan, and for JET the apartment is not always provided, it is often just subsidised (mine have usually been subsidised, although I currently rent my own townhouse apartment, and therefore pay full price, but it means I am also firmly in control of my own housing). It is provided in Korea. JET also allows its members, not all of which are teachers (some are CIRs, who serve other international relations functions), only to remain in the program for a maximum of five years. Many choose to only stay one or two, but they receive a three year status of residence. JETs are not permitted to work outside of their JET duties, however, that is a JET stipulation and NOT a stipulation of the Ministry of Justice/Immigration. Many non-JETs who serve in the same role, have multiple jobs. I'm currently a non-JET and as mentioned, I have also worked for years as a journalist.

Also, I will tell you JET and non-JETs that do the same thing are the same, in general. I have met, and indeed worked with/supervised, some pretty awful JETs. I have also worked with non-JETs (dispatch or private hire) who are outstanding teachers with qualifications. Some of them were even turned down for JET! Although not provable, there have been rumours for years that JET admissions panels will intentionally avoid anyone who may appear to be too interested in Japanese culture, especially those who might be seen as a potential immigrant. This makes sense when you consider one of the additional rumours is that JET is less about hiring teachers to help create students who can speak English as it is about creating "goodwill ambassadors" who can go back to their home countries and speak well of their time in Japan to boost Japan's image. After eight years working in this field, I believe these rumours are accurate, and it has meant I have had to make many unusual and uncommon decisions as someone who is an actual naturalising immigrant with an actual teaching education and background. Up to including a massive effort to learn to teach English in Japanese and to pursue a normal Japanese teaching license at a Japanese university.

I agree with JT: the best teacher of L2 is one who speaks L1 and L2 as fluently as possible and yes, fluent is a range, because what is considered fluency depends on the communication environment and situation. My Japanese is fluent if I'm hanging out with 15 year old girls. It is not fluent if I am hanging out with particle physicists.

I see no problem with a more regulated program in Thailand for native English teachers, but EPIK and JET should serve only as models on what not to do, rather than what to do. There are many great things about both programs, but if actually teaching real English is the goal, they need reform. Of course, the goal might not be teaching real English... The question is, what is Thailand's goal?

Edited November 14, 2015 by Caitrin

[Jonathan Fairfield]

Thailand’s Education Ministry Seeks to Eliminate it’s Dependency on Foreign English Teachers

BANGKOK – Thailand’s Education Ministry plans to recruit 500 Thai teachers, in its first batch of teachers to teach English in state-run schools nationwide.

The 500 teachers are to undergo a “train-the-trainer” program in a bid to reduce the cost of hiring foreign English teachers, the Bangkok Post Reported.

Deputy Education Minister Teerakiat Jareonsettasin said the Thai teachers for the “train-the-trainer” program will be selected from public schools across the country to undergo the six-week intensive program from the British Council’s English specialists who have experience in English-language teaching management on a global scale.

Mr Teerakiat told the Bangkok Post reporter that the selected teachers will receive advanced instruction in teaching both written and spoken English and some new methods for effectively teaching English from the British Council’s English specialists

A group of teachers to join the program will be selected from all over the country. They have to be very good in English because after the six-week training program, they must be role models and trainers for other English teachers in their schools or schools near their area, Mr Teerakiat said.

Full story: http://www.chiangraitimes.com/thailands-education-ministry-seeks-to-eliminate-its-dependency-on-foreign-english-teachers.html

-- Chiang Rai Times 2015-11-14

[Cake Monster]

Thailand is already 50 years behind the modern age, and this measure will set the country back onother 30 years in its developement.

Even further back into the dark ages: But hey !, maybe thats where Thailand wants to be.

[Caitrin]

"Eliminate its dependency." Isn't that the proof in the pudding?

Thailand’s Education Ministry Seeks to Eliminate it’s Dependency on Foreign English Teachers

[z42]

The problems with Education that i've personally seen go way way beyond anything that the British Council, Cambridge English or any such body can address with a 6 week intensive course.

I am a native English teacher here. I have QTS status from my home country, CELTA, DELTA and a range of other CPD development course certificates under my belt. I feel I am suitably qualified, experienced and motivated / dedicated enough to teach here and make a difference, however small it may be.

But the real problems what I can see lie in the motivations held by the schools' top brass, the administration staff in the school, and many of the students themselves. The top brass have almost exclusively in my experience been motivated by personal status / enrichment that goes with it, and nothing more. The administration staff seem largely unable to run an effective ship when it comes to running day to day affairs in the school (and also in the intake phase where all and sundry are allowed to enter if they pay kickbacks to them or if they are blood related - which in many cases brings in a multitude of very 'privileged students'). And expecting effective learning when you have 50 students to 1 teacher in a class is simply a farcical standpoint.

Many students i have met in my time are motivated by end grades only. Their focus is not really on learnng anything through hard work, more on having an A grade after their name. And knowing that in a lot of cases some well timed envelopes / choice words from their parents to admin and school brass will secure their desired grades. There is nothing to rein in the attitudes a lot of the above mentioned people display. It is culturally an area which is not frowned upon.

As for the native speakers, there are good and bad teachers all over Thailand. But surely the onus is on the employers to take adequate steps to ensure suitability to fulfil the job role and assign a salary and working conditions that are universally acceptable to both parties. Performance based pay is not something that is too common here, as are penalties for poor practice. Having some extrinsic motivational factors certainly wouldn't be a bad thing for those foreign teachers withing to teach in Thailands' schools.

[noitom]

Good luck Thailand with your English

[Lunchbob]

British Council got a FAT contract ... didn't they?

And to justify it we need some red lines on the spreadsheet....

[Liquorice]

A Thai English teacher told me it was sports day today and they were having a palace through the city. (Parade)

Could you say it in Thai, the language of the country you live in?

No, but then I don't pass myself off as teaching Thai and taking a salary for it.

[Artisi]

The problems with Education that i've personally seen go way way beyond anything that the British Council, Cambridge English or any such body can address with a 6 week intensive course.

I am a native English teacher here. I have QTS status from my home country, CELTA, DELTA and a range of other CPD development course certificates under my belt. I feel I am suitably qualified, experienced and motivated / dedicated enough to teach here and make a difference, however small it may be.

But the real problems what I can see lie in the motivations held by the schools' top brass, the administration staff in the school, and many of the students themselves. The top brass have almost exclusively in my experience been motivated by personal status / enrichment that goes with it, and nothing more. The administration staff seem largely unable to run an effective ship when it comes to running day to day affairs in the school (and also in the intake phase where all and sundry are allowed to enter if they pay kickbacks to them or if they are blood related - which in many cases brings in a multitude of very 'privileged students'). And expecting effective learning when you have 50 students to 1 teacher in a class is simply a farcical standpoint.

Many students i have met in my time are motivated by end grades only. Their focus is not really on learnng anything through hard work, more on having an A grade after their name. And knowing that in a lot of cases some well timed envelopes / choice words from their parents to admin and school brass will secure their desired grades. There is nothing to rein in the attitudes a lot of the above mentioned people display. It is culturally an area which is not frowned upon.

As for the native speakers, there are good and bad teachers all over Thailand. But surely the onus is on the employers to take adequate steps to ensure suitability to fulfil the job role and assign a salary and working conditions that are universally acceptable to both parties. Performance based pay is not something that is too common here, as are penalties for poor practice. Having some extrinsic motivational factors certainly wouldn't be a bad thing for those foreign teachers withing to teach in Thailands' schools.

Undoubtedly the best posting so far in this discussion, devoid of all the nonsense and academic claptrap being regurgitated.

[FritsSikkink]

That lesson teaching the teachers was more problematic than even my lowest ranked pratom class.

The Thai teacher had absolutely no interest in learning and often just sat their talking among themselves, playing on their phones and would almost never participate for fear of losing face.

Do you have a teaching degree? It could be you are not a good teacher.

[kannot]

I can see Thailand asking ASEAN to carry on without it for another 2 - 5 years or so while it gets its act together.

surely you mean 25?

[Docno]

News in January: "Education Ministry to invest more money in Chinese language education"

It's the 21st century, folks....

[kannot]

They've also reduced the number of school hours. Clearly they actually don't want the children to be properly educated.

The people are being dumbed down. Makes them more controllable.

I didn't think they could actually go any lower/dumber certainly by me many are just plain simpletons.

[kannot]

News in January: "Education Ministry to invest more money in Chinese language education"

It's the 21st century, folks....

combine all 3 save even more "Chainglish"

[duanebigsby]

I must admit I didn't read ALL the replies, but from the few I did, I guess most respondents are English teachers....

I also admit I didn't do nor intend to do any research on the subject, but just my thoughts and observations:

1. Thailand is NOT the only country in the world that has its own language - I am not going to list all those countries

2. Thai people are NOT the only people who are not proficient in English - I had difficulties communicating in English in France and Germany, and I am not talking science talk - I am talking about asking driving direction in Germany or direction to the right train platform in France... In both places not in a small remote village, but in BIG cities, and not only elderly people, I was actually trying to ask young people who seemed to be students. BTW - the only person in the French train station who was able to answer my question was the toilets attendant!!! Even in the US of A - it's getting harder and harder to get around if you don't speak Spanish...

3. I am pretty sure that in MOST countries in the world, the foreign language teachers (be it English or any other) are locals, and not imported teachers.

4. I don't think that in the 10 or so years that foreign English have been widely employed all over the country, the level of English of the Thai students has improved to actually support the idea that foreign teachers are any better than the Thai teachers - now I can already imagine some of the TV members' responses to this like "the students are not listening to us" or "they are not interested" or "the school administrations / regulations / local teachers / janitors restrict our success"

Face it. This is Thailand. The official language is Thai. All documents are and will probably ALWAYS be in Thai. There are about 65 million Thais. Not all of them, not even most of them will ever NEED to interact in any other language. The ASEAN threat that Thais are going to lose their jobs if they can't master English? B******it. There have been import / export in Thailand for years. Who ever need to, find the way to communicate.

Well said! Maybe they are realizing here now that English is not as necessary as they thought back in the day when they thought it was. I think the computer craze and introduction of the net sent many countries on a paranoia trip believing that they all needed to learn English very well, because the net and computer language was all in English but as time went by and automatic translators made their appearance on the net and keyboards with Thai script were made, it became clear that English in Thailand is only needed around foreigners and only about 5% of Thais are engaged with foreigners in one way or another. 95% of Thais don't really need English, unless they want to listen to some quality Irish/English music of course or perhaps a Hollywood flick, but it seems that Lady Gaga and Deuce Bigalow don't need too much understanding of our language anyway, 55555.

I agree that 95% of Thais will never need to speak English.

But why limit students choices for the future?

More and more, the better English speakers will be getting the best jobs.

With that comes travel opportunities and an ability to connect to the outside world for both learning and entertainment.

[hobobo]

A couple of years ago I met Head of the English Department, a Professor, at a large Issan University. I understood about 5 percent of what he was saying. Honestly, this is sheer lunacy!

[cumgranosalum]

A Thai English teacher told me it was sports day today and they were having a palace through the city. (Parade)

Could you say it in Thai, the language of the country you live in?

No, but then I don't pass myself off as teaching Thai and taking a salary for it.

Vocab problem? ("palade" "palace") but at least he said "having a" which is quite a complex grammatical feat......but then the average native English speaker wouldn't be aware of that, so how can they judge?

[cumgranosalum]

The problems with Education that i've personally seen go way way beyond anything that the British Council, Cambridge English or any such body can address with a 6 week intensive course.

I am a native English teacher here. I have QTS status from my home country, CELTA, DELTA and a range of other CPD development course certificates under my belt. I feel I am suitably qualified, experienced and motivated / dedicated enough to teach here and make a difference, however small it may be.

But the real problems what I can see lie in the motivations held by the schools' top brass, the administration staff in the school, and many of the students themselves. The top brass have almost exclusively in my experience been motivated by personal status / enrichment that goes with it, and nothing more. The administration staff seem largely unable to run an effective ship when it comes to running day to day affairs in the school (and also in the intake phase where all and sundry are allowed to enter if they pay kickbacks to them or if they are blood related - which in many cases brings in a multitude of very 'privileged students'). And expecting effective learning when you have 50 students to 1 teacher in a class is simply a farcical standpoint.

Many students i have met in my time are motivated by end grades only. Their focus is not really on learnng anything through hard work, more on having an A grade after their name. And knowing that in a lot of cases some well timed envelopes / choice words from their parents to admin and school brass will secure their desired grades. There is nothing to rein in the attitudes a lot of the above mentioned people display. It is culturally an area which is not frowned upon.

As for the native speakers, there are good and bad teachers all over Thailand. But surely the onus is on the employers to take adequate steps to ensure suitability to fulfil the job role and assign a salary and working conditions that are universally acceptable to both parties. Performance based pay is not something that is too common here, as are penalties for poor practice. Having some extrinsic motivational factors certainly wouldn't be a bad thing for those foreign teachers withing to teach in Thailands' schools.

I agree - I posted something similar - albeit less succinct - earlier....

[cumgranosalum]

A couple of years ago I met Head of the English Department, a Professor, at a large Issan University. I understood about 5 percent of what he was saying. Honestly, this is sheer lunacy!

Perhaps you need to brush up your listening skills, or was he using long words you couldn't understand?

[duanebigsby]

They've also reduced the number of school hours. Clearly they actually don't want the children to be properly educated.

The people are being dumbed down. Makes them more controllable.

The hours reduction is a pilot project in a few schools as an experiment.

The hours are reduced to about the same number as in US and Canadian schools.

[BlindMagician]

Fully support this decision. What's the point in spending good money on native speakers when the kids have no interest in learning anyway. I've met a number of Thai English teachers over the years. Their language skills have been at worst appalling and at best mediocre. Not one of them could be considered even remotely fluent. When you see the text books they use it soon becomes clear

What's the point in spending money when the kids dont want to learn anyway?

Ok, lets pull all education funding, 'cos the kids don't want to learn anyway.

But you contradict yourself - you support the decision, but then criticse the Thai English teachers.

Not sure where you stand on this.

[Seastallion]

Such negativity. The students will finally be able to say "I fine thank you love you" after being asked how old they are.

In my experience, the answer to "How old are you?" is always "Yes".

I got a new private student last week. When he arrived for the first lesson, I said hi and asked him, "How are you this afternoon?"

His reply, "I'm very well, thank you, how are you?" pleased me immensely. Great change from the standard "I'm faai".

Unfortunately, that was the extent of his good English.

[cumgranosalum]

News in January: "Education Ministry to invest more money in Chinese language education"

It's the 21st century, folks....

I'd say that your post indicates that you really don't understand the basics of why EL is needed and replacing English with Chinese is a totally fallacious concept.

English is the lingua franca of just about all international undertakings - business, law, media computing academia, whatever and under no circumstances can it be replaced by

Chinese.

You might also want to consider the status of English as most people's SECOND language....

If a Chinese person wants to speak to a Mexican, there is a good chance they will use English...and so it goes for communication world over.

some people erroneously point to the number of "Chinese" speakers in the world being the biggest single block - they ignore the fact that there are in act several dialects and eve languages in China...and outside???? .... well unless you are exclusively doing business in China then English is still the key to getting things done.....and there is little chance of that changing.

Thailand does a lot of business with China and the amount will increase, but to concentrate of Chinese at the expense of English would be a huge mistake as apart from anything it would reduce their voice on the world stage - such as it is.

when it comes to training professionals - in science academia and medicine - without EL, Thailand might as well forget it...i have posted my concerns about the training of medical practitioners many times and the lak of English is, IMO, a key factor.

Apart from the training it self, how ca a doctor keep apace with modern medicine if he/she is unable to read the latesdt paers and peer reviews on avances in their fields??? - Even the Chinese publish in English.

Edited November 14, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[duanebigsby]

A Thai English teacher told me it was sports day today and they were having a palace through the city. (Parade)

Could you say it in Thai, the language of the country you live in?

No, but then I don't pass myself off as teaching Thai and taking a salary for it.

Vocab problem? ("palade" "palace") but at least he said "having a" which is quite a complex grammatical feat......but then the average native English speaker wouldn't be aware of that, so how can they judge?

Not only that but the preposition "through" is something which many students can't handle.

I also had a lesson about sports day and I saw the word "palace" several times. The word "train" was commonly used for parade.

I suspect the Thai words they typed into their phones got translated poorly.

I have an awful time with kids and Google translate.

[Artisi]

A Thai English teacher told me it was sports day today and they were having a palace through the city. (Parade)

Could you say it in Thai, the language of the country you live in?

No, but then I don't pass myself off as teaching Thai and taking a salary for it.

Vocab problem? ("palade" "palace") but at least he said "having a" which is quite a complex grammatical feat......but then the average native English speaker wouldn't be aware of that, so how can they judge?

More than likely he was saying

" palade" as in pa ( "l" in place of "r" -- not unusual) ade.

[cumgranosalum]

Thai, the language of the country you live in?

No, but then I don't pass myself off as teaching Thai and taking a salary for it.

Vocab problem? ("palade" "palace") but at least he said "having a" which is quite a complex grammatical feat......but then the average native English speaker wouldn't be aware of that, so how can they judge?

Not only that but the preposition "through" is something which many students can't handle.

I also had a lesson about sports day and I saw the word "palace" several times. The word "train" was commonly used for parade.

I suspect the Thai words they typed into their phones got translated poorly.

I have an awful time with kids and Google translate.

I would recommend a course on how to use a dictionary.

Rule one - don't use it.......

Although the point I was trying to make is that many of the anecdotal comments on the standard of English in Thailand are no more than that - the anecdotes of laymen and as such at best good for a laugh, but i reality say more about the ignorance of the poster than anything about EL education in Thailand.