Thai officials to slash number of foreign English teachers

[gk10002000]

Lunacy

Well, the current visa "crackdown" seems likely to decrease the number of foreign English teachers. I guess if there are enough Thais that can teach English this can work. Here in the USA I took French while in Junior High and High School. Yes the teacher was now a USA citizen and not a foreigner, but one of the teachers was born and raised in France and while his English was perfect, he had his French accent and was beyond fluent in both languages. The other lady was born in the USA but had lived abroad for several years and was also beyond fluent in both languages. The same held true generally for the other teachers that taught foreign languages. They had either been born and raised abroad or had degrees and had studied in the foreign country. I doubt that can be the case in Thailand as there just aren't that many native or now Thai citizens that are completely fluent in English across all the education levels and ages that Thailand needs

[yasorab]

I have lived in Thailand 18 years now and have a good understanding of spoken Thai now. I have 2 step daughters both at High school . Last reporting season my elder came home with what could only be discribed as a brilliant score for both spoken and written English far and away better than her comprehension would allow. I decided to go to the parents evening and ask why she managed such a high score. I was totally astounded by the reply from her teacher ! 'Mai Caw Jai' I not speak good English ! I rest my case, leave English teaching to those who speak it ( foreigners) as left to Thails they will crash and burn !

[balo]

This is good news for all the Filipino teachers who wants to work in Thailand. They speak excellent English and accept much lower salaries than the native speakers. Around 20000 baht is the average salary for Filipinos.

And they work really hard compared with some lazy , drunk farang teachers I know that only came here for the visa.

[TheKnave]

What is NOT said above, but I have read elsewhere, is that 43,000 Thai teachers of English were tested and only SIX reached the required level of proficiency in English.

What standard are the other 42, 994? And what percentage of fluency is that? Only 0.01395% of Thai teachers tested in English were reasonably fluent.

It boggles the mind that the cretins in the Ministry could even contemplate such lunacy.

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is 0.0001395 Your figure, 0.01395 was 6 out of 430!!! Where did you learn maths? Thailand?

Uh, he expressed it in PERCENT, not as a simple quotient.

Where did YOU learn math?

[TheKnave]

1) No way its CELTA intensive - to qualify for that you have to have a C1 CEFR score. That's almost the highest level of English understanding, near native.

2) You speak like someone who has no experience in a Thai school system. You naively believe Thai English teachers can improve their English teaching skills significantly IN 6 WEEKS

3) As explained in other posts, foreign English teachers are NOT more expensive. Look at your math, if you have Thai teachers staying on for 30-40 years, imagine what their salaries balloon too? Vs. a foreign teacher who gets paid 50k a month with minimal benefits.

The top 500x teachers in Thailand should have C1 or higher. Even at my school our head of English got B2, and I've met quite a few Thai English teachers who have had higher fluency when speaking than him. Remember too, Thailand is a big country, so to have 500x teachers with good English, you only need 1x teacher with good English out of 100,000 people (Or an average of about 7-8 in each province).

And in 6 weeks of intensive study of Thai at Chula I significantly improved my Thai, there's no reason why the teachers can't improve their English & teaching ability in the same way if it's done right. Most Farang teachers learn to teach via TESOL or CELTA courses, which can take anywhere from 1 - 6 weeks depending on the legitimacy of the school etc. I'm pretty sure that a Thai teacher can learn as much or more in 6 weeks, as what a Farang teacher learns in 1-6 weeks. And since it's being managed by the British Council, it'll probably be intensive & not just a sight seeing holiday like the seminars were for teachers that scored A1/A2.

Thai teachers, who are civil servants, start at 15,000 THB per month, Farang teachers usually start at 30,000 - 35,000 THB, possibly more in Bangkok (Or less if they have no qualifications). After about 15 years, the Thai teachers are earning around 30,000 THB per month, so average it out to maybe a 1000 THB pay rise each year. After 20 years they'll probably be earning 35,000 - 40,000, possibly more/less depending on their personal development & leadership responsibilities etc. Now if you'd like to show me some of that maths you're talking about, I'd be happy to show you where you've made a mistake in your equation

Over the course of a 30-35 year career, Thai teachers are definitely more cost effective than hiring ~20 different NES teachers who often only stay in Thailand for 2-3 years and don't do any where near the amount of administrative duties that Thai teachers do. NES teachers are hired because the Thai teacher's English and teaching methods aren't effective, it's not ideal, but until there's a big enough supply of competent Thai English teachers to meet demands, NES will be hired (Probably for at least the next 10-20 years, since as I said, it'll take at least a generation, and that's if they decided to actually go about it in the right way and not just go for short term fixes, which is generally what they have instead focused on in the past).

Did six weeks at Chula improve your ability to *teach* Thai?

I rest my case.

[EyesWideOpen]

The principle reason that Thais are unable to learn English is that they start too late.

The process needs to start much earlier. My daughter started learning Thai and English

at the age of two. By age five she is basically fluent in both languages. Trying to teach

English to a bored high school student is basically a waste of time. So rather than slashing

the number of teachers because the entire program is a failure, time to rethink when

to start the learning process.

[NCC1701A]

fine with me. i like Thailand just the way it is. sort of like the 1960's.

[darhut]

I saw the Deputy Education Minister speak at the FCC in Bangkok a while back. He seemed like a really smart guy, who I thought could really do some good in transforming the Thai education system.

Then I read this....

Oh dear.

When I was 'teaching' English here 5 years, the school I was at ran 'Teach The Teacher'. Once a week one of the farang teachers had to 'teach' the Thai teachers English.

That lesson teaching the teachers was more problematic than even my lowest ranked pratom class.

The Thai teacher had absolutely no interest in learning and often just sat their talking among themselves, playing on their phones and would almost never participate for fear of losing face.

"Just sat THERE" sorry to be a grammar police but you did say you were teaching English.

[bbbbooboo]

Hmmm.....stupid IS what stupid DOES

[prestburypark]

Wonderful news, some family friends in Phetchabun are highly respected local English teachers. Very high status locally, and do very well thank you, live way beyond salary...but cannot (or will not from shyness) hold a simple conversation with me.

I helped some uni students with an English comprehension project, a complete blag, learnt answers by rote with no real comprehension, got me to do the multiple choice questions.

A piece of paper saying one can speak English seems to be all that is needed.

The self taught working girls are the best speakers I have met,( not met on a professional basis , being a happily married guy ) though quite a few waiters and hotel staff, particularly in Bangkok are really impressive.

Maybe the working girls could find a new career teaching the teachers how to do it for real. And speak English too maybe.

[gp2002]

Thailand just went full retard.

[NongKhaiKid]

Wasn't some nonsense spoken about getting Thailand ready for the start of the AEC including a vast improvement in the English language ?

Just who is going to conduct this intensive English training ?

The situation will not change in the least, it will be Thais who supposedly speak English passing on their poor standard to other teachers who then reproduce the same situation in their classes ?

Yes some Thais can read and write at a decent level but can't speak English because conversation is rare in schools since the teachers don't risk losing face because they can't put a sentence together themselves so talking, pronunciation exercises etc are out.

[dontoearth]

Japan and Korea have reduced their costs of native speakers of English as instructors by implementing a program aimed at unemployed recent college graduates of english in english speaking countries. It is called Jet in Japan. Japanese English Teacher. They make it look like the kids who graduated from college in the USA in English and Arts have won something after college! They give them a plane ticket and room and subsistence wages for 1 or 2 years with a limited English teacher work visa and place them in schools that request the service. And they supply enough work teaching English to CHOKE A HORSE. The English speaking kids just graduating from college like it. They feel they are getting one up on college graduates that spend the 1 or 2 gap years (time between undergrad and graduate school) playing video games and watching TV at Mom and Dad's. The Korean and Japanese students and school kids like it cause they get young motivated kids that want to teach English (not boozed and drugged up late middle-aged sex pervs). So hats off to Korea and Japan for finding a win-win and filling their countries with good young high quality english teachers. And once again Thailand? Oh my another bad policy announcement that will later back fire, later be denied, later be reversed, later we will get a claim it was a previous governments decision. Yeah that should do it.

[retsdon]

No syllabus, no materials, no defined outcomes, no valid testing, not enough class time, over large classes, unmotivated students, indifferent and incompetent administration. The list goes on and on and on. I taught in Thailand for six years in a number of different institutions, and looking back, 95 percent of it was a complete and utter waste of time and effort.The students didn't improve one iota.

Im contrast, where I've worked for the last 10 years in the Middle East, every year we move the bulk of 1,500 students from elementary to a 500+ TOEFL score in 9 months. Never mind that the pay is multiples better, purely from a job satisfaction viewpoint nothing would pursuade me set foot back in the rat's nest of venal, smug incompetence that is the Thai education system.

Native speaking teachers or local Thai - it makes no difference who does the teaching. The system itself predetermines the outcome.

[Rockhound]

How to remain in the stone age.

All Thailand needs to do is employ a sufficient number of native English speakers - for one school generation - until there is a generation of Thais who can speak fluent English. And then they can do it all for themselves. But logic is not a Thai trait...

[Mbaki]

Hopefully they will get rid of the trashy teachers trying to teach English when English is not their first language. Half the time I can't even understand when the Filipino English teachers at my son's school try to talk to me in English.

The filipinos are light years a head of any randomly picked thai teacher.

English is the first language of the Phillipines and teachers are also fully qualified. The Thai's pay them less money because of the color of their skin.

Tagalog is the first language of the Philippines, they are taught English in schools.

[kurt8]

Three generations of Thais teaching English to Thais, none of whom ever even set foot in an English speaking country. How has that worked for them so far? Abysmally.

By the time they graduate high school , most Thais can not carry on a simple intelligible conversation with a native English speaker, let alone a Frenchman, or German speaking English.

It is not about education, it is about nationalistic pride.

English WILL BE the language that unites all of Asia someday. Thailand will continue to trail in communication skills with her neighbors.

Isn't it interesting that many of the affluent Thais send their children abroad to study? Hmmmmm.

[Mbaki]

Hopefully they will get rid of the trashy teachers trying to teach English when English is not their first language. Half the time I can't even understand when the Filipino English teachers at my son's school try to talk to me in English.

did you read the articles:

"The Education Ministry wants to cut back on foreign teacher recruitment to slash costs and focus on giving intensive language training to the Thai teachers.

Under the "train-the-trainer" program, a group of 500 Thai teachers who teach English in government schools nationwide will take part in an intensive six-week training course taught by English specialists from the British Council."

You will regret not having philipinos anymore...

I doubt that, my Thai wife and I both help teach and correct the English our son is taught by Filipino's at school.

[onelasttime]

The Thai elites and traditionalists have never wanted an educated, literate population. Actually I am not surprised at all by this move. All past governments of all colours have purposely designed an education system whereby only the wealthy who can afford to send their children to international schools will be the leaders of tomorrow. This, together with this current inept lot in power will only show Thailand to be the dumbest country in ASEAN.

This country is becoming more and more a joke festering on the backside of S.E. Asia.

[jacko45k]

I thought this had been tried in the past and proven to be a failure.

The only way something similar could work out would be that Thai teachers of English are trained much better, perhaps going overseas for a period of a few years.

To learn not only English, but teaching methods.

It is no secret that the lack of English proficiency within Thailand stems from the poor level of the teachers, some who barely can speak it themselves.

They have a point that some of the foreign teachers currently within Thailand are of dubious teaching ability.

[SlyAnimal]

This is a pretty good idea. As if the British Council is doing the intensive 6 week training course I'd imagine that it'll be CELTA or similar that the Thai teachers are going through. Not only will it improve their English significantly, but it'll teach them how to teach more effectively.

As it's meant to be for the best English teachers at each school it'll likely be heads of department, or teachers who have the full support of the head of dept, and so they'll have the authority/status required to teach the other teachers.

"Slashing" the number of foreign teachers wouldn't be a good move at this stage, but long term that's where Thailand needs to head to. Also they didn't say if by foreign they meant NESs or non-NESs. As they need better Thai teachers, they can't rely on every school having foreign teachers, there simply aren't enough to go around, and so it just increases the inequality between the rich & poor schools.

My personal view is, and has been for a long time, that Thailand needs to spend money on teaching the teachers if they want to be successful. Foreign NES teachers are more expensive and often only stay teaching in Thailand for a few years. Comparatively Thai teachers start on less than half of the salary most foreigners are paid & can increase their ability over a career of 30-40 years, rather than just 1-5.

The current problem is though, that they start at such a low level that even after 30 years they're usually not as effective at teaching as a NES is after 3 years experience. Which is why the teachers need to have their level increased, courses like this one will help, but it's only (hopefully) the first step, the next step being reassigning foreign teachers from high schools to universities where they can teach the teachers. Thailand needs to look forward to the next generation, as it's already too late for this generation.

Nicest thing I can say is,"myopic".

Six weeks to teach a non-English-speaking Thai 'teacher' to speak, let alone *teach* English is ludicrous.

Again, this move has nothing whatsoever to do with improving English in Thailand, and everything to do with ejecting an easy target, as part of a more general campaign against long-staying foreigners, particularly those of perceived limited means. At first...

Did you actually read the article? It wasn't very long.

"The selected teachers, whose English must be among the best in their schools". So the teachers who do the course will have pretty good English already, and then it sounds like the course is mainly to improve on that + teach them how to teach in a similar style.

[jobin]

I see the Bangkok Post has this news report on the front page of the online edition. The Post offers no opinion, only reports what the Ministry has said.

The comments offered by the public are about the same as we read here at TV. Seems no one is in favor of such an action, except the money counters in the govt, and perhaps those who dislike farangs leading the youngsters.

[pmarlin]

I'm glad the source of this article was Coconuts, it has eased the Mind-Blown experience at least a little bit.............

D​ont want to rain on your parade its headlines in the Unmentionable other English language paper

Still its utter madness!

Both articles make it pretty clear it's a long-term plan and it is something that should be aimed for. Of course it is better to use well-trained local teachers than rely on foreign teachers forever. The headline that Coconuts uses is typical of the sensationalism of gutter rags.

I agree as the current method of using poor quality foreign teachers isn't working.

[jgriff]

I am not surprised by this. It is Thailand in a nutshell.

[HenryB]

Thailand for and by Thais

[eeworldwide]

Country nearly closed.

At least, the inhabitants of this country will not be able to communicate with the other persons living on the planet. Thus, they'll not be touched by "bad ideas".

Nor "touched" by dodgy foreign English teachers either.....

We seem to have touched a nerve here.

Pretentious? Moi?

? Sorry - Im confused...

Why would it be pretentious to comment on the numerous cases of dodgy foreign english teachers touching/interfering with Thai students?

[NongKhaiKid]

This is a pretty good idea. As if the British Council is doing the intensive 6 week training course I'd imagine that it'll be CELTA or similar that the Thai teachers are going through. Not only will it improve their English significantly, but it'll teach them how to teach more effectively.

As it's meant to be for the best English teachers at each school it'll likely be heads of department, or teachers who have the full support of the head of dept, and so they'll have the authority/status required to teach the other teachers.

"Slashing" the number of foreign teachers wouldn't be a good move at this stage, but long term that's where Thailand needs to head to. Also they didn't say if by foreign they meant NESs or non-NESs. As they need better Thai teachers, they can't rely on every school having foreign teachers, there simply aren't enough to go around, and so it just increases the inequality between the rich & poor schools.

My personal view is, and has been for a long time, that Thailand needs to spend money on teaching the teachers if they want to be successful. Foreign NES teachers are more expensive and often only stay teaching in Thailand for a few years. Comparatively Thai teachers start on less than half of the salary most foreigners are paid & can increase their ability over a career of 30-40 years, rather than just 1-5.

The current problem is though, that they start at such a low level that even after 30 years they're usually not as effective at teaching as a NES is after 3 years experience. Which is why the teachers need to have their level increased, courses like this one will help, but it's only (hopefully) the first step, the next step being reassigning foreign teachers from high schools to universities where they can teach the teachers. Thailand needs to look forward to the next generation, as it's already too late for this generation.

Nicest thing I can say is,"myopic".

Six weeks to teach a non-English-speaking Thai 'teacher' to speak, let alone *teach* English is ludicrous.

Again, this move has nothing whatsoever to do with improving English in Thailand, and everything to do with ejecting an easy target, as part of a more general campaign against long-staying foreigners, particularly those of perceived limited means. At first...

Did you actually read the article? It wasn't very long.

"The selected teachers, whose English must be among the best in their schools". So the teachers who do the course will have pretty good English already, and then it sounds like the course is mainly to improve on that + teach them how to teach in a similar style.

The selected teachers whose English must be among the best in their schools means absolutely nothing as it will be the best of a bad bunch.

They will possibly want selection for face and nothing else so will they improve by attending the course, will they even try ?. Will they even understand what's being shown to them ?

Will anyone ' fail ' ?

[Nomyai]

Lunacy

About time. So many engrit teechers yet thais kant speak engrish. Whats up with that. I think the last thing on the teaCHERS mind is teaching english.

[Kirbicus]

Just out of interest I saw this the other day while browsing the internet and catching up with a lot of English reading.

It's a good read

http://bangkok.craigslist.co.th/edu/5297923563.html

Check out the contact name at the bottom. .

[selftaopath]

I can see Thailand asking ASEAN to carry on without it for another 2 - 5 years or so while it gets its act together.

That fast? :-)