Thai officials to slash number of foreign English teachers

[Shawn0001]

Lunacy

The British Council is going to train teachers to be teacher trainers and you think that is lunacy? About time I say! Perhaps the sensational headline through you off, there is not actually any mention of any cuts, just a desire to be able to make those cuts in the future, cuts that would be very good for the schools if only they had a suitable replacement. The problem with Thai English education is the methodology being used by Thai teachers, many teachers are using old grammar translation techniques, proven ineffectual techniques and they are failing as we would expect them to. We need Thai teachers to learn how to teach English and no one knows that better than the British Council.

Problem with that is it can't be done in six weeks.

Send the 500 Thai teachers to USA or England for a full year of immersion and retraining. Then I'd agree with the idea.

CELTA would take up the first month and this could be followed by a two week course in how to deliver the CELTA to other teachers. Why would it be enough time for a foreign teacher but not enough for a Thai teacher? I'm sorry but it just isn't that hard to teach someone how to teach TEFL.

[Shawn0001]

Not only that but the preposition "through" is something which many students can't handle.

I also had a lesson about sports day and I saw the word "palace" several times. The word "train" was commonly used for parade.

I suspect the Thai words they typed into their phones got translated poorly.

I have an awful time with kids and Google translate.

If you talk to them you can find out what they actually wanted to say and explain to them what the word means that they found before giving them the word that they were actually looking for, if you explain how the words are linked they can understand why they found this wrong word. If you do that then you may see that Google translate is actually a valuable asset to the language learner and teacher alike. You could even go as far as to encourage the student to use the 'make a suggestion' function on Google translate, helping to improve the service.

[dodojero]

Regarding to the fact of the upcoming ASEAN community in January 2016 I expected that they would hire MUCH MORE Foreign English teachers to fill the big gap and to bring Thailand on a higher English level... but to REDUCE the number of Foreign teachers is a step back into the stone age.

But whatever. .... This could bring up a new business idea for foreigners in all provinces. Offer English courses ONLY FOR THAI ENGLISH TEACHERS and teach them how to teach English students in school. The 500 "EXPERTS" won't be able to train ALL English teachers in the whole country.

I'm already LMAO..... 555555

[Seastallion]

The long-term goal is wise. To achieve that goal, however, is a challenge and will take more than a 6 week course for a mere 500 teachers.

My wife teaches English, and she's an excellent teacher. She could teach most members here a thing or two about grammar. Her angle on Thai English teachers (actually all Thai teachers) is that once they get their teachers qualifications, they stop wanting to learn anything more. And that's the problem.

Wifey is up at 3 am every morning for what she calls "self-improvement study" and is constantly trying to learn more. Unfortunately, she is not a government teacher, and so would not qualify for the course outlined in the OP....but she would be a perfect candidate.

Coincidentally, she is doing another degree at the moment, and this was her writing assignment that she showed me this morning...I kid you not, this is cut and pasted from what she wrote as she wanted me to proof-read.....and the sad thing about it, is she's not kidding. She loves reading grammar books!

Sure, it's not perfect, but there are some NES here who couldn't write something like this, let alone be truthful about it.

Write 10-15 sentences on ONE of the following topics: (She chose "My favourite books")

(criteria: Sentence structure, variety of sentence types, correct verbs and tenses usage (sic), corresponding vocabulary and correct spelling.)

English grammar books are always my favourite.

In my profession , knowing grammar is vital, as we know that in Thailand we study English just in the classroom and not in the environment.

The only way to form the language is to learn the rules.

I have been reading grammar books since I completed the “ Grammar Analysis” course at university , at that time I did not understand enough English rules, so my grade was so poor. From then, grammar has been my inspiration.

My purpose for reading those books at the beginning was to understand the rules, but after some time I found that I love and enjoy spending time reading those rules and I think it is very challenging to understand them, not only knowing grammar but also knowing some technical terms of grammar .

I have some grammars books. The best grammar books that I really like to read are “The Teacher’s Grammar of English”, “ Grammar for the Language Teacher” and “Longman Student Grammar of Spoken and Written English” which I am reading now ( this is not my first time.) Besides reading grammar books, I also like doing grammar exercises and vocabulary and reading some novels as well.

I think reading is very important, man knows nothing without reading.

[ravip]

Can English be taught only by NES teachers?

Is it impossible to teach English by non-Foreign NES teachers?

Edited November 14, 2015 by ravip

[ToS2014]

"The selected teachers, whose English must be among the best in their schools..."

precisely what quality? the best or simply better than non-existent? one can simply conclude that the best is simply terrible. Feel bad for the kids, well, those that want to learn.

[Expat1]

Yea, this'll work. Thailand is about to startup the Asean Economic Zone which is arguably based on majority use of the English language serving as the Lingua Franca, so to speak. They should be hiring more English tutors not letting them go. These people are seriously xenophobic to a fault. They are their worst enemy. Good luck with that, Thailand.

[Seastallion]

"The selected teachers, whose English must be among the best in their schools..."

precisely what quality? the best or simply better than non-existent? one can simply conclude that the best is simply terrible. Feel bad for the kids, well, those that want to learn.

Indeed. "The best" as compared to what?

And, as mentioned previously, most teachers have no desire to improve. My bet is that 480 of the 500 will treat it as a junket and learn nothing. 15 will try for a while and maybe take back a few ideas, and 5 will study hard and really try to assimilate what the instructors are trying to convey.

[Docno]

News in January: "Education Ministry to invest more money in Chinese language education"

It's the 21st century, folks....

I'd say that your post indicates that you really don't understand the basics of why EL is needed and replacing English with Chinese is a totally fallacious concept.

English is the lingua franca of just about all international undertakings - business, law, media computing academia, whatever and under no circumstances can it be replaced by

Chinese.

You might also want to consider the status of English as most people's SECOND language....

If a Chinese person wants to speak to a Mexican, there is a good chance they will use English...and so it goes for communication world over.

some people erroneously point to the number of "Chinese" speakers in the world being the biggest single block - they ignore the fact that there are in act several dialects and eve languages in China...and outside???? .... well unless you are exclusively doing business in China then English is still the key to getting things done.....and there is little chance of that changing.

Thailand does a lot of business with China and the amount will increase, but to concentrate of Chinese at the expense of English would be a huge mistake as apart from anything it would reduce their voice on the world stage - such as it is.

when it comes to training professionals - in science academia and medicine - without EL, Thailand might as well forget it...i have posted my concerns about the training of medical practitioners many times and the lak of English is, IMO, a key factor.

Apart from the training it self, how ca a doctor keep apace with modern medicine if he/she is unable to read the latesdt paers and peer reviews on avances in their fields??? - Even the Chinese publish in English.

Apologies that you took my post so seriously and felt a need to write such a lengthy response. That said, there have been long periods in history when Latin and then French were the lingua franca of Europe (much longer periods than the dominance of English so far), and those times have passed. I'm sure there were many people then who could not imagine things changing (and certainly not imagine that the language of a little island on the edge of Europe would be the 'next big thing').

Anyway, you did miss the point of my partially tongue-in-cheek comment (not your fault, mind you). My view is simply that educational resources are not infinite and governments try to make rational decisions [yes, debatable here] about how to best direct those resources. It would not surprise me if there are people in MOE who are arguing that there should be a shift in second language learning resources from English to Chinese. That's certainly been the case in Singapore over the past decade (which is an about face from previous policy there). And the issue of dialect is irrelevant as Mandarin and simplified Chinese are the standards in business and government in China.

[Andarman]

Ignorance is bliss.....the one step thought process in practise again.. It's well mastered and manicured in the Thai education system...

[LannaGuy]

it's not that surprising as the Junta are ultra-conservative and nationalistic and will look down on anyone who is not 'Thai' including many of their own citizens

[z42]

Lunacy

The British Council is going to train teachers to be teacher trainers and you think that is lunacy? About time I say! Perhaps the sensational headline through you off, there is not actually any mention of any cuts, just a desire to be able to make those cuts in the future, cuts that would be very good for the schools if only they had a suitable replacement. The problem with Thai English education is the methodology being used by Thai teachers, many teachers are using old grammar translation techniques, proven ineffectual techniques and they are failing as we would expect them to. We need Thai teachers to learn how to teach English and no one knows that better than the British Council.

Problem with that is it can't be done in six weeks.

Send the 500 Thai teachers to USA or England for a full year of immersion and retraining. Then I'd agree with the idea.

CELTA would take up the first month and this could be followed by a two week course in how to deliver the CELTA to other teachers. Why would it be enough time for a foreign teacher but not enough for a Thai teacher? I'm sorry but it just isn't that hard to teach someone how to teach TEFL.

Shawn I've done CELTA, and believe me even doing it effectively in my first language, English, it was a really difficult thing to do. The hard work, time management, and dedication required to analyze and crirtique the performance of not only one's self but also the other trainees in your group day on day for a solid month I can honestly say would be well beyond most Thai teachers of English i've seen.

We had 1 foreign student on our CELTA course from Myanmar, she had an unbelievable level of English, but even when talking to her she said she found it so so difficult to take in and process and then apply all the information in such a short space of time. And she was one of the smartest, most driven people I've ever met.

As for learning how to teach CELTA. The levels set by Cambridge for being CELTA trainers are incredibly high, and require years of frontline mentoring experience, teaching excellence and general life skills just to be in the frame for it. To become that in 2 weeks is simply impossible. Also the DELTA which i've also done is ridiculous, the attention to detail and levels required there alone take years to fully take in and then mould into something truly valuable in the workplace.

I'm not Thai bashing. But this is a bridge too far for Thailand in the current climate. Some short and medium term goal setting is needed. And the goals need to be realistic, and this realism seems to be sorely lacking in almost every move the Education ministries make.

[LannaGuy]

The long-term goal is wise. To achieve that goal, however, is a challenge and will take more than a 6 week course for a mere 500 teachers.

My wife teaches English, and she's an excellent teacher. She could teach most members here a thing or two about grammar. Her angle on Thai English teachers (actually all Thai teachers) is that once they get their teachers qualifications, they stop wanting to learn anything more. And that's the problem.

Wifey is up at 3 am every morning for what she calls "self-improvement study" and is constantly trying to learn more. Unfortunately, she is not a government teacher, and so would not qualify for the course outlined in the OP....but she would be a perfect candidate.

Coincidentally, she is doing another degree at the moment, and this was her writing assignment that she showed me this morning...I kid you not, this is cut and pasted from what she wrote as she wanted me to proof-read.....and the sad thing about it, is she's not kidding. She loves reading grammar books!

Sure, it's not perfect, but there are some NES here who couldn't write something like this, let alone be truthful about it.

Write 10-15 sentences on ONE of the following topics: (She chose "My favourite books")

(criteria: Sentence structure, variety of sentence types, correct verbs and tenses usage (sic), corresponding vocabulary and correct spelling.)

English grammar books are always my favourite.

In my profession , knowing grammar is vital, as we know that in Thailand we study English just in the classroom and not in the environment.

The only way to form the language is to learn the rules.

I have been reading grammar books since I completed the “ Grammar Analysis” course at university , at that time I did not understand enough English rules, so my grade was so poor. From then, grammar has been my inspiration.

My purpose for reading those books at the beginning was to understand the rules, but after some time I found that I love and enjoy spending time reading those rules and I think it is very challenging to understand them, not only knowing grammar but also knowing some technical terms of grammar .

I have some grammars books. The best grammar books that I really like to read are “The Teacher’s Grammar of English”, “ Grammar for the Language Teacher” and “Longman Student Grammar of Spoken and Written English” which I am reading now ( this is not my first time.) Besides reading grammar books, I also like doing grammar exercises and vocabulary and reading some novels as well.

I think reading is very important, man knows nothing without reading.

yes your wife is perfect... happy now? let's back away from your perfect life and back on topic?

[rubyjuan]

Thailand and the Thai government officials conunnery to amaze me. I enjoyed teaching there, but I am so happy to be living and teaching in Vietnam. Thailand and Thai education are just, low-grade.

[SoilSpoil]

For my kids I would prefer a near fluent English speaking Thai teacher than a native English speaker.

Most foreign teachers in Thailand have absolutely zero idea what it takes to master a foreign language and the learning challenges that can occur.

Also, foreign teachers seem to go through a revolving door here. My daughter has had already 3 different teachers this year.

Good plan, though I fear not very realistic seen the lack of ambition levels of the average Thai teacher.

[rodknock]

what is the big deal.

they still can not fail a student, so it really does not matter who can or can not teach english.

[GerdT]

Reading some of the comments here one wonders what these commentators try to achieve. Language proficiency or linguistic proficiency doesn’t mean perfect. That can be seen when reading English newspapers. Sometimes they have grammatical errors or spelling errors too (which might be simple typos).

Someone brought up in the UK or the US and being a native speaker of these English languages might be fluent but still fail of being considered proficient when measured by the standards these commentators try to apply.

From my experience I found that most people I had to deal with in Thailand and that spoke English wouldn’t fail in grammar or vocabulary but pronunciation. That is a problem I feel that should be addressed, because children that get used to pronounce words in a way that only they and their teachers understand will have problems to correct that later in their lives. When communicating with English speaking people they will easily be put off from continuing learning the language if the first attempts in communicating fail because they cannot pronounce the words correctly and are not understood because of it.

[rotorbreeze]

Brainwash education at it's best

Stay slaves to the system here.. low education in English limits the population in leaving for work in English speaking countries...if you spoke only Thai..what country speaks Thai?... You learn English and it opens the doors for better future for next generation... Thai's teaching Thai's English...lets hope they have gone to a English school overseas and have the qualifications...Lets hope the "positive" in Thai's teaching English...government may realize the teaches must go overseas to learn correct English..exposing them to "The reward of learning English"...lets hope..be positive!

Edited November 15, 2015 by metisdead
Font.

[GerdT]

For my kids I would prefer a near fluent English speaking Thai teacher than a native English speaker.

Most foreign teachers in Thailand have absolutely zero idea what it takes to master a foreign language and the learning challenges that can occur.

Also, foreign teachers seem to go through a revolving door here. My daughter has had already 3 different teachers this year.

Good plan, though I fear not very realistic seen the lack of ambition levels of the average Thai teacher.

I don’t think it is the lack of ambition but as with all things a money problem. Here is a link to a website which a friend of my wife is setting up for her school trying to change things.

www.mythaischool.eu.pn

[realenglish1]

This is llke taking an Electrical Engineer and telling him to design a building

Yes He is an Engineer but not a structural engineer .

Same thing Thais speak a little bit of Pigeon English but do not speak it very well There is a heavy accent and to have them teach with a heavy accent is a joke.

I pity the students

Edited November 14, 2015 by realenglish1

[cardinalblue]

Doesn't matter English or Thai, attitude and learning environment not there...

Now onto cutting Thai traffic enforcement personnel....

[Gary A]

I have a Thai friend who was an interpreter at the military base in Udon Thani during Vietnam. His English skills are excellent which is to be expected. He asked a Brit friend of mine and myself if we would be interested in helping local teachers with their English classes. I wasn't interested because I have no patience and don't particularly like kids. My friend agreed to meet with the head of the local English teaching department. I was asked by my Brit friend to meet this Thai teacher with him. We met with the guy and we both were absolutely appalled that it was impossible to communicate with him. His knowledge of English was totally lacking.

The kids in this area will never learn English without native English speakers help. The school hired a couple of supposed English speaking teachers from Cameroon, Africa. I don't know who interviewed them but neither of them was proficient in English. After a couple of months they were let go because of all the complaints.

[trainman]

The problems facing the Thai education system apply to all subjects taught, not just English. Thai students generally are appalling at Maths, Science, History, Chinese, Japanese, Management, Engineering, Economics, Politics... even literacy levels for Thai language are poor.

Thai culture does not value knowledge, critical thinking and hard work, nor does it operate as a meritocracy. Without drastic reform of Thai society and its values as a whole, then any meaningful educational reform is almost impossible.

With this in mind, I don't think it makes much difference whether there are a million native speakers teaching English or zero.

[fang37]

What do Thai students excel in?

[Kasset Tak]

A couple of years ago I met Head of the English Department, a Professor, at a large Issan University. I understood about 5 percent of what he was saying. Honestly, this is sheer lunacy!

I had a similar experience in a private BKK University with over 8,000 students. The dean of the Foreign Language Department was proudly displaying her diplomas for PhD in English Literature, Masters in Linguistics, Proficiency in Chinese and her IELTS score card in her office BUT the only spoken language she could use was Thai.

[Mister Fixit]

But the real problems what THAT I can see ...

So much for your CELTA, DELTA and other bum-wipe qualifications ...

[FritsSikkink]

Can English be taught only by NES teachers?

Is it impossible to teach English by non-Foreign NES teachers?

No, in the Netherlands English is taught by Dutch teachers and the level of English spoken by the Dutch is pretty good. All the Dutch teachers have a degree in teaching English.

[Kasset Tak]

I have a Thai friend who was an interpreter at the military base in Udon Thani during Vietnam. His English skills are excellent which is to be expected. He asked a Brit friend of mine and myself if we would be interested in helping local teachers with their English classes. I wasn't interested because I have no patience and don't particularly like kids. My friend agreed to meet with the head of the local English teaching department. I was asked by my Brit friend to meet this Thai teacher with him. We met with the guy and we both were absolutely appalled that it was impossible to communicate with him. His knowledge of English was totally lacking.

The kids in this area will never learn English without native English speakers help. The school hired a couple of supposed English speaking teachers from Cameroon, Africa. I don't know who interviewed them but neither of them was proficient in English. After a couple of months they were let go because of all the complaints.

I'm not a NES but I know and understand the problem as I don't teach English as a subject, I teach other subjects in English.

The Thai English teachers here in the college even have problem with simple things like greetings. If I say "Good morning! How are you today?" then they are lost as I added the word "today" to "How are you?". The Thai teachers are usually great with bending verbs but to actually use the language grammatically correct is another thing for example when they say: "Oh, you have eyes blue.". This is because in Thai you put the noun before the adjective but in English you put the adjective before the noun.

The best thing about Cameroonian teachers are that they are like the Energizer bunny... they just keep going and going and going (at least those I have meet) so they are great to entertain the kids!

Edited November 14, 2015 by Kasset Tak

[Baerboxer]

I saw the Deputy Education Minister speak at the FCC in Bangkok a while back. He seemed like a really smart guy, who I thought could really do some good in transforming the Thai education system.

Then I read this....

Oh dear.

When I was 'teaching' English here 5 years, the school I was at ran 'Teach The Teacher'. Once a week one of the farang teachers had to 'teach' the Thai teachers English.

That lesson teaching the teachers was more problematic than even my lowest ranked pratom class.

The Thai teacher had absolutely no interest in learning and often just sat their talking among themselves, playing on their phones and would almost never participate for fear of losing face.

My wife is Thai, a qualified experienced teacher, with overseas teaching experience. She agrees with your comments!

I've met many many Thai teachers - her friends, colleagues, subordinates and bosses. I estimate 5% are really good English speakers, understand the language and able to teach really well. 15% are very average, can just about teach it but make zero effort to improve (including avoiding having to speak English with me) and the rest are really not capable of teaching the subject apart from very basic.

There are many issued in the Thai teaching profession, and indeed many issued with the quality of some foreign teachers. But this decision is pure lunacy.

[Seastallion]

yes your wife is perfect... happy now? let's back away from your perfect life and back on topic?

Thank you. She's beautiful, too.

If I had not said she was my wife, but "a friend I know", you may actually have appreciated her for what she is.

Try not to show too much resentment. I guess bar girls or English student gold-diggers don't quite measure up. Not my fault. Try and mix in better company.

My point, is that there are indeed some intelligent, dedicated, hard-working Thai English teachers. "My friend" that I mentioned exemplifies that.

The other point is the problem with the rest of the teachers is that they have no desire to improve or change. They have their certificate, they get their salary, so why should they bother to try harder or to learn more to be able to be better teachers?

What is needed is incentive. What the government saves in high foreign worker's salaries should not be "saved" but diverted to qualified Thais. And I mean qualified in every sense of the word, including having the right attitude.