USA -- low budget repatriation specific locations that aren't horrible

[Jingthing]

How about a Texas border town?

For medical care, there's this. Even the Mexican Americans in Brownsville are afraid of the drug cartel violence over the border there. Is there a state department travel advisory about having no medical insurance in the USA?

Uninsured Texans Seek Health Care In Mexico As Their Governor Resists Medicaid Expansion

[M]any of those who live here [in Brownsville] — including poor Latino immigrants, both legal and undocumented — suffer from diabetes and lack of insurance. Some of those uninsured diabetics, including American citizens and others living here legally,used to go across the border to Matamoros, Mexico for insulin. But now with the fear of brutal drug violence and tougher border restrictions, families share their insulin shots rather than risking the crossings.

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/05/22/2048061/uninsured-texans-medicaid-expansion/

South Texans flocking to Mexico for cheaper drugs

http://www.kens5.com/story/news/2015/07/30/mexico-healthcare/30867449/

Nothing new, either:

Health Care on the Border: Poor Go to Mexico

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/10/17/us/health-care-on-the-border-poor-go-to-mexico.html?pagewanted=all

Any Europeans and Canadians reading this, yes, I think you should feel superior.

Obamacare didn't fix it.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Actually, I wasn't fully joking about border Texas.

Anyone familiar with McAllen, Texas, the "tropics" of Texas?

It's mostly Mexican Americans so it might feel like living abroad in Mexico without being an expat.

Time to learn Spanish.

Close to Nuevo Progresso Mexico which I'm reading is a rather safe border town where I could buy my meds.

Housings looks very affordable.

Hilariously, it's the most obese city in the USA with massive diabetes rates but I enjoy the company of chubby people, so no worries.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

More on border medical tourism in Nuevo Progreso Mexico. My understanding is that it is legal to import no more than a three month supply of meds over the border, which isn't a problem if you live near the border.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/american-anthropological-association/mexico-health-care-tourism_b_1729100.html

This option also seems to be benefit many people who are actually on Medicare (over 65) as well.

Through accessing medical care in Mexico, seniors can save thousands of dollars and improve their overall health because they can afford to access medical care. Nevertheless, there are inherent health risks from both the care they get in Mexico, and also from neglecting care in the U.S. While in Mexico, seniors may be given incorrect or counterfeit medication, suffer malpractice, be arrested for importing medications, or be victims of cartel related violence. While those problems could happen in the U.S. (although much less likely), postponing or rationing medical care, because of the high costs has its own set of health consequences. These are the choices that many seniors are faced with, and for many the risks of seeking care in Mexico are less than forgoing it in the U.S. While the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services has continuously warned people about the risks, the message seems ineffective to those who see Mexico as the only viable option to a medical system that threatens their economic existence. Therefore, it stands to reason that as long as the cost of medical care in the U.S. erodes the safety net of retirement that retirees will risk their safety and health in an attempt to balance financial security with heath security.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Hey, I found an interesting tool that would be useful for anyone choosing a place in the U.S. for any reason, repatriation or not:

It's a QUIZ tool which spits out your best choice.

http://www.bestplaces.net/fybp/

Oddly, I got

Brownsville, Texas! OMG.

Somehow I don't think so, but you can retake the quiz and change your answers to see different ideas.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Jingthing

[zierf1]

I'm from Ohio. We have a lot of neat rust belt towns like Cleveland and Dayton. Cost of living not high. Houses can be purchased for pocket change. Only problem is the weather.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Al's gonna be happy!

[Jingthing]

I'm from Ohio. We have a lot of neat rust belt towns like Cleveland and Dayton. Cost of living not high. Houses can be purchased for pocket change. Only problem is the weather.

I was looking at Cleveland a little and you're right, there are incredible deals on housing. Just saw a lakefront condo for 40K. Has lots of culture, the "real" stuff unlike Vegas. But cold winters, crime, and hot humid summers. It would be in my Pittsburgh - Rochester category but I think the best of those in housing values. Also quite a lot of public transport though don't know if not having a car at all would be possible. I used to live in Chicago near the lake so I think I have some rough idea of that region.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Jingthing

[arunsakda]

When I used to fly domestic we stayed at the LaQuinta Brownsville all the time. Right next to a giant Supermarket. (Googled the Lobby Pic) Blistering most of the year with Humidity that makes Thailand seem comfy. Short winters cold, and clammy. Unless you are a Horsey person/hunter/fisherman with trucks, boats, a ranch and gear I cannot imagine one would enjoy living there. Absolutely nothing to do but eat great Mexican food. (Even the tortillas are made with Lard and it will kill you!) Beaches are nothing but brown water and constant wind. Corpus Christi is nicer and probably just as inexpensive. Matamoros - A place for underage American college students go to get drunk and watch donkey shows. Truly scary. Walked over the bridge once, never again. If you want to live in Mexico there are many nice places, in the interior. Don't know if it is good for expat retirement.

Cleveland has cheap housing and you could probably live without car (RTA, Buses) if you stay away from the banal mind numbing suburbs. Great health care, Cleveland Clinic comes to mind. Hokey nightlife in "The Flats". I noticed the average 22 year old girl there is about a size 16.

Winter about 6 months long.

Edited November 28, 2015 by arunsakda

[NeverSure]

Oregon is too expensive. I really don't like Arkansas. But I am not totally ruling out Little Rock.

Check out W. Memphis Arkansas. Great weather and just across the Mississippi River from Memphis Tennessee.

Cheers.

[NeverSure]

I'll agree I'm an argumentative SOB but for everything in the OP's wishlist I'm going to go with Arkansas and expanded Medicaid maybe West Memphis which is just across the border from Memphis TN which is one of the most happening places in the USA.

Oops, You beat me to it.

Cheers.

[NeverSure]

That's interesting.

Memphis has appeal but no expanded Medicaid.

I'll look into that bordering Arkansas idea.

Sorry to be a bore, but let's be clear. Crab and I are talking about W. Memphis Arkansas, just across the river from Memphis, Tenn.

Cheers.

[NeverSure]

That is interesting. I lived a while in the U.S. and had a chance to explore a bit. Cost wise outside of Medicaid coverage I would consider Washington, Oregon, Arkansas, Kentucky, Northern Arizona, New Mexico, Florida, North Carolina, Southern Utah, upstate New York and parts of Pennsylvania.

For instance there is a really cool area in northwestern Oregon in the Walla Walla mountains. There is a town there built around bronze casting with many galleries. Nice scenery. But they do get snow:)

Pardon, but it's not in the Walla Walla mountains but rather in the Wallowa Mountains area and the town is Joseph Oregon. The County Seat nearby is Enterprise, Oregon. That's very expensive as it's attracted a lot of artsy types. It's also colder than hell in the winter as it's at 4,000 feet elevation. You'll have frozen ground literally for several months in the winter. The upside is that it has gobs of sunny days so the cold is offset somewhat by a good mood that comes from sunshine.

Once again, Oregon and Washington are expensive compared to The South.

[SpokaneAl]

This discussion reminds me of the time my wife and I were looking to purchase our first house. We realized that we did not have a large income or a great deal of savings but were still stunned after calculating how much house we could afford and then actual seeing those homes in our price range.

[arunsakda]

When I used to fly domestic we stayed at the LaQuinta Brownsville all the time. Right next to a giant Supermarket. (Googled the Lobby Pic) Blistering most of the year with Humidity that makes Thailand seem comfy. Short winters cold, and clammy. Unless you are a Horsey person/hunter/fisherman with trucks, boats, a ranch and gear I cannot imagine one would enjoy living there. Absolutely nothing to do but eat great Mexican food. (Even the tortillas are made with Lard and it will kill you!) Beaches are nothing but brown water and constant wind. Corpus Christi is nicer and probably just as inexpensive. Matamoros - A place for underage American college students go to get drunk and watch donkey shows. Truly scary. Walked over the bridge once, never again. If you want to live in Mexico there are many nice places, in the interior. Don't know if it is good for expat retirement.

Cleveland has cheap housing and you could probably live without car (RTA, Buses) if you stay away from the banal mind numbing suburbs. Great health care, Cleveland Clinic comes to mind. Hokey nightlife in "The Flats". I noticed the average 22 year old girl there is about a size 16.

Winter about 6 months long.

Now that I think of it it mught have been the La Quinta in Harlingen next to the giant supermarket. All the same!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BruceMangosteen]

What annoys me about your post, which I consider a very rude TROLL post, which I explicitly didn't welcome in my OP, is that this thread getting hijacked into the boring American politics thing, right wing vs. left wing, poor people don't deserve health care, will mean, sooner or later that this thread will get closed. So: THANKS FOR NOTHING.

We don't want any discussions closed. There is no "troll" aspect to my reply. You state you have some assets, at least a cash value of your existing condo in Pattaya. That means you don't want to spend that money(if you can sell it which as we all know is not so easy), but, you don't want to spend your now cash on healthcare, you want the taxpayers to pay the hospitals, doctors, nurses, and drug companies along with of course, the lawyers making ridiculous claims via the malpractice liability. What we don't grasp is why should the taxpayers fund healthcare for people with assets like yourself, meager as they may be. You can buy insurance now via Obamacare, and once/if you run out of cash, then medicaid is there for you. As you also know full well, preexisting conditions are covered. So pony up and pay for the insurance or die, that's your choice, not ours. Don't want to pay, R.I.P.. I hope you choose to pay your share vs. leeching of a broken system.

[arunsakda]

It is a troll post because it brings a highly ideological argument into the discussion that no person from any other major industrial power or Democratic country can take seriously.

[Jingthing]

As stated before Arkansas is in the process of dumping expanded medicaid so I've ruled that out. Memphis area does sound cool though.

I've largely rejected both the Brownsville and McAllen Texas areas because of the atrociously humid summers. Culturally not enough either but McAllen is somewhat better.

Cleveland has popped way up there. Yes winters are depressing but overall the place appears to have so much to offer and it does appear at current prices that I could afford to live in a more central no car needed area. Unlike Pittsburgh. All said the weather is a huge negative. Hard choice.

What does Cleveland have?

Wonderfully diverse food.

An Asiantown centrally rather than in burbs.

Public transport. Not Chicago or SF but something.

A big lake. Nice in summer anyway.

Cheap real estate.

Lots of gays.

Lots of Jews.

Support services for elderly.

Good music scene.

Good live theater scene. A passion of mine.

Artists can still afford to live there.

Good museums.

Yes I do realize some people would think a person crazy for retiring in Cleveland. Not a stereotypical choice for sure.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

It is a troll post because it brings a highly ideological argument into the discussion that no person from any other major industrial power or Democratic country can take seriously.

In any case, what I would plan on doing if repatriating under 65 would be perfectly legal. If the decision was based on assets and I hid assets, that would be another matter, but that isn't the situation here.

Another funny thing is that really rich people and corporations have all kinds of legal loopholes to protect their assets, but right wing fanatics don't focus on that. On the contrary. They support politicians that strengthen them more, creating even worse economic inequality in the U.S. Instead they're obsessed with cases like mine, older Americans trying to avoid total poverty and preventable premature death. People on food stamps buying some salmon or shrimp rather than a bag of potatoes. (Yes for awhile Fox News was obsessed with that, the nerve of people on food stamps eating seafood!). Some "morality", huh?

I can understand some might think it is morally unethical to choose to not to spend down to completely ruinous poverty and they have a right to that opinion. But in my opinion it would be INSANE to voluntarily spend down to nothing if there were legal options to avoid that. As far as the future of "Obamacare" ... who knows. I do know the INTENTION of "Obamacare" was that the EXPANDED Medicaid option was supposed to be made available in all 50 states. But legal decisions mandated that the states couldn't be forced to expand it, so generally most of the states under right wing political control have not expanded it. As I've said for years, I support real universal health care, but that didn't happen. For Americans over 65 and within striking distance of 65, I wouldn't worry about Medicare going away, but of course Medicare isn't perfect either.

Anyway, I've responded again to the baiting. I am not here for my final moral judgment by man or God. Ethics are worth thinking about and if there is a God (I don't think so) we'll all be facing that later. But this thread isn't really about ethics and morality. So enough already!

How about this, if you want to deliver right wing preachy spankings to me that aren't about destination choices, I invite you to PM me instead. I don't want this thread further POLLUTED with this off topic crap.

What is this thread about? Read the OP. It's about LOW BUDGET repatriating to the U.S. where I focused on my specific priorities but did not rule out people talking more generally about choices that wouldn't work for me.

But please do keep it to places with LOW BUDGET options.

Cheers.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Some Cleveland propaganda.

http://www.virtualonlinepubs.com/publication/?i=215825

http://www.clevescene.com/cleveland/welcome-to-city-guide/Content?oid=4491140

http://www.clevescene.com/cleveland/cleveland-food-capital-usa/Content?oid=4491124

The LA Times added Cleveland to its round-up of "15 destinations for travelers to set their sights on in 2015," while Buzzfeed included Cleveland along with Patagonia, the Czech Republic, and Singapore in its listicle of "16 Spectacular Places To Travel In 2015."

Edited November 28, 2015 by Jingthing

[losworld]

Should have gone with a Canadian system. Lower cost overall and covers all. But probably not for another 100 years.

Medicare is popular though.

Agree. I have lived in Canad and in the U.S. and I have seen both systems and believe the Canadian system much better. On a cost per basis delivery is far more efficient and you get one hundred percent coverage. Here is a classic example. If you are feeling sick or something is wrong most Canadian cities have 24 hour doctor clinics or easily accessible clinics where you can get in and out in an hour or less at no cost. So you have incentive to get yourself checked.

I lived in Los Angeles and had premium insurance but it would take me days or even weeks to see a doctor and with appointment. Then there would be a copay on top of it.

So to put this into perspective if a woman had a lump in her breast in Canada she could go to the clinic they would discovery it and first stage cancer would be removed. In the U.S. there is a possiblilty she would not go because of initial costs or her insurance going up or takes weeks for an appointment. So she might return when the condition has worsened and now you would have 3rd stage cancer which is far more expensive and could kill her.

Another expample I had food poisoning and the only place to go at night is the emergency ward of a hospital in Los Angeles. One bag of IV cost my insurance over 1000 u.s. Ridiculous.

Clinton backed down on creating a viabale national health plan and Obama has done the same. I am sorry but this hybrid model they introduced will continue to make the insurance companies rich as usual at the expense of the taxpayer. National healt care like Canada or England is the only solution.

[Jingthing]

Yes, but Americans living in the U.S. need to deal with the crap system the way it is.

[SpokaneAl]

Should have gone with a Canadian system. Lower cost overall and covers all. But probably not for another 100 years.

Medicare is popular though.

Agree. I have lived in Canad and in the U.S. and I have seen both systems and believe the Canadian system much better. On a cost per basis delivery is far more efficient and you get one hundred percent coverage. Here is a classic example. If you are feeling sick or something is wrong most Canadian cities have 24 hour doctor clinics or easily accessible clinics where you can get in and out in an hour or less at no cost. So you have incentive to get yourself checked.

I lived in Los Angeles and had premium insurance but it would take me days or even weeks to see a doctor and with appointment. Then there would be a copay on top of it.

So to put this into perspective if a woman had a lump in her breast in Canada she could go to the clinic they would discovery it and first stage cancer would be removed. In the U.S. there is a possiblilty she would not go because of initial costs or her insurance going up or takes weeks for an appointment. So she might return when the condition has worsened and now you would have 3rd stage cancer which is far more expensive and could kill her.

Another expample I had food poisoning and the only place to go at night is the emergency ward of a hospital in Los Angeles. One bag of IV cost my insurance over 1000 u.s. Ridiculous.

Clinton backed down on creating a viabale national health plan and Obama has done the same. I am sorry but this hybrid model they introduced will continue to make the insurance companies rich as usual at the expense of the taxpayer. National healt care like Canada or England is the only solution.

Like many things else American, the quality of health care depends a great deal on where one lives. We certainly have never waited weeks for any kind of appointment up in my neck of the woods. Most times we see a doctor with a couple of days unless it is urgent and then get seen very quickly.

[Jingthing]

Cleveland without a car.

http://www.pubtrantravel.com/cflptt-cleveland.html

I'm still skeptical but it can work in some neighborhoods.

I used to live in Chicago with a beater old car which was parked 99 percent of the time so I definitely didn't need one there. I can't even explain why I kept it then. Probably because I grew in the suburbs with the basically correct feeling that you can't exist in the USA without a car.

Meeting older New Yorkers who had never learned to drive. How quaint!

Of course that was pre-Uber days.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Jingthing

[lannarebirth]

If I were in your position Jing I would give some consideration to college towns. I like the activity and vibrancy associated with colleges and universities.

http://www.greatvaluecolleges.net/50-great-affordable-college-towns-in-the-u-s/

[Jingthing]

Another update.

I've been looking for some negative stuff about Cleveland to balance the good stuff.

The real estate isn't as cheap as I first thought in really desirable places.

Prices in some near suburbs look attractive, some even near good transit, that might make more sense to buy there and just accept needing a car.

The real estate taxes are shockingly high based on my experiences elsewhere.

The housing stock is often VERY, very old.

A cheap house will often need rehab ... I don't do that.

Big old condos often have issues with massive assessments.

Similar to South Florida, the monthly homeowner fees are often very high, sometimes over 500 a month for a small condo!

I'd have to look into this but I get the feeling there are a number of old buildings that have just died, fallen apart, the owners can't afford the massive assessments, building water bills not paid, pain, misery, lost investments. What's not to love?

While there are some areas where you can function nicely in your own area without a car and even get around the city directly from there, once you get there a lot of the places you might want to go and shop aren't near the transit.

There doesn't seem to be any culture there to provide transit info about places, only driving directions.

The crime rate is high (like most of the places I've been looking at).

When I did live in the Midwest (not a native) I remember feeling that it takes almost nothing to be considered a "weirdo" in that culture.

I remember the feeling of liberation getting out of the super cold zone and moving to California.

Of course, in San Francisco I had the opposite problem, most people there considered me too conventional there. But I preferred that.

Bottom line, though it's the cold weather more than anything that would depress me moving back into. Buying something there may mean basically becoming stuck there for life. Perhaps a place to rent for awhile if desperate ... the rents can be cheap enough in some dodgy areas. Happy happy joy joy.

I can see buying in some up and coming neighborhoods in Cleveland might be smart if you're a young working professional ... it seems to me Cleveland's real estate might start moving like Pittsburgh already has. It's also good if you like to rehab houses, you can get large old wrecks in some promising areas for very cheap.

So, oh well, still looking at the Southwest.

Based on the obvious downsides of ALL these low budget choices, confirming what everyone already knows, just as in Thailand, in the USA money is definitely number one! If it's cheap, it's cheap for a good reason ... so it's often a matter of picking the pain you're most OK with. Like voting!

Edited November 29, 2015 by Jingthing

[SpokaneAl]

Another update.

I've been looking for some negative stuff about Cleveland to balance the good stuff.

The real estate isn't as cheap as I first thought in really desirable places.

Prices in some near suburbs look attractive, some even near good transit, that might make more sense to buy there and just accept needing a car.

The real estate taxes are shockingly high based on my experiences elsewhere.

The housing stock is often VERY, very old.

A cheap house will often need rehab ... I don't do that.

Big old condos often have issues with massive assessments.

Similar to South Florida, the monthly homeowner fees are often very high, sometimes over 500 a month for a small condo!

I'd have to look into this but I get the feeling there are a number of old buildings that have just died, fallen apart, the owners can't afford the massive assessments, building water bills not paid, pain, misery, lost investments. What's not to love?

While there are some areas where you can function nicely in your own area without a car and even get around the city directly from there, once you get there a lot of the places you might want to go and shop aren't near the transit.

There doesn't seem to be any culture there to provide transit info about places, only driving directions.

The crime rate is high (like most of the places I've been looking at).

When I did live in the Midwest (not a native) I remember feeling that it takes almost nothing to be considered a "weirdo" in that culture.

I remember the feeling of liberation getting out of the super cold zone and moving to California.

Of course, in San Francisco I had the opposite problem, most people there considered me too conventional there. But I preferred that.

Bottom line, though it's the cold weather more than anything that would depress me moving back into. Buying something there may mean basically becoming stuck there for life. Perhaps a place to rent for awhile if desperate ... the rents can be cheap enough in some dodgy areas. Happy happy joy joy.

I can see buying in some up and coming neighborhoods in Cleveland might be smart if you're a young working professional ... it seems to me Cleveland's real estate might start moving like Pittsburgh already has. It's also good if you like to rehab houses, you can get large old wrecks in some promising areas for very cheap.

So, oh well, still looking at the Southwest.

Based on the obvious downsides of ALL these low budget choices, confirming what everyone already knows, just as in Thailand, in the USA money is definitely number one! If it's cheap, it's cheap for a good reason ... so it's often a matter of picking the pain you're most OK with. Like voting!

I spent a couple of years living in Illinois and Ohio in my younger days and coming from Seattle, found the worst weather I ever experienced in my life. Bitter cold winters with blasting winds, and brutal hot, simmering summers - I hoped and prayed I would never have to return and luckily, IMO, never did. Old rust belt cities like Cleveland and Columbus are worn down and down right dangerous.

A number of years back we visited some friends in Columbus and were amazed when they informed us that one could not drink the water from the tap. That seemed odd where in WA we never buy drinking water.

Last year our friends from Columbus visited us and were just as amazed that our tap water tasted fine and downtown Spokane is a short walk from our house and we had no problems taking evening strolls there. They told us they they would never walk through downtown Columbus.

Cleveland does have LeBron James and the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

Edited November 29, 2015 by SpokaneAl

[Jingthing]

The tap water in Chicago was good when I lived there.

Yes, the weather is brutal on the great lakes, no getting around that.

Probably the deal killer for me is a personal emotional memory.

That strong feeling I remember of escaping from "Siberia" so going back to "Siberia" voluntarily might be too painful.

But on the other hand many people seem to describe Phoenix as HOT AS HELL.

Edited November 29, 2015 by Jingthing

[lopburi3]

Are there many tourists that do not describe Pattaya as hot as hell? Do not believe we would find Phoenix hot after the humid heat of Thailand - I lived in Delhi for several years and it was much hotter than here - but did not feel it.

[Jingthing]

Are there many tourists that do not describe Pattaya as hot as hell? Do not believe we would find Phoenix hot after the humid heat of Thailand - I lived in Delhi for several years and it was much hotter than here - but did not feel it.

I like Pattaya weather. But I've got a sea breeze ... and it cools off at night even in the hot season. So I don't think you can compare to the desert.

Still between too hot and too cold, especially if the too hot is "dry" heat, for me, too hot wins.

Edited November 29, 2015 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Keeping on this, I was comparing Vegas vs. Phoenix and overall Phoenix seems the better city.

Vegas suburb Henderson does look quite attractive though, and unlike my other choices, both lower cost for buying (renting not so much) AND low crime.

So can't rule out the Vegas area yet.

They both have serious climate and water issues though.

It seems they will be hit by climate change related / water crises in this century.

Phoenix is already hotter than ever due to local human development, and it was already too hot.

I guess it might be silly for young people to buy in that region but for older people, the question is when will it become unlivable and will it have much impact in their lifetime.

Renting seems OK ... but then you've got the issue of rent increases pricing you out ... not fun for very old people.

Of course if people start fleeing based on the water, etc. then rents should go down.

As far as Arizona expanded Medicaid, there is some republican noise to tighten the restrictions, not about assets, but about things like work searches and limiting for 5 years (not a problem). I actually doubt they will get national approval for most of their tightening, but it will be interesting to watch.

The update on Arkansas is interesting. What I am hearing now is that they probably WILL be keeping it (the decision will made next year) but perhaps with some tightening like requiring a payment of 2 percent of income ... not a problem.

So I'm looking again at West Memphis, Arkansas.

It is high crime but there sure are some cute houses for sale for amazingly low prices.

Albuquerque is off my radar now.

So I guess the good news is that if repatriating under age 65, I might be down to three major choices:

Phoenix / Vegas (Henderson probably) / West Memphis Arkansas.

BTW, I am familiar with living in the SOUTH so I'm not so worried about culture shock with that in Arkansas.

For those who haven't lived in the SOUTH, it really is different.
Climate-wise, overall, West Memphis easily beats Phoenix and Vegas, even though it does have a winter.

If repatriating over 65, then the choices get wider, and more about Florida.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Jingthing