Lightning strike on cable internet

[Pib]

Cable (DOCSIS) is RF cable all the way to the cable modem just like Fiber to Home where the fiber runs all the way to the modem. There are no twisted copper phone/DSL wires involved. If you have a DSL/phone line going to the input of your modem you really have xDSL, not Cable or Fiber.

But the ISP providers confuse people in their advertisements where they sometimes include the word Fiber somewhere in their ad and it's actually may just be a hybrid system where Fiber feeds to a electronic junction box(es) in your immediate area/moobaan and from that junction box copper phone/DSL wire runs to the residence (that's what TOT has done in my moobaan). When the dust settles that is still just a xDSL system although it has a Fiber trunk line....so, the advertisement can't be said to be untrue since a Fiber trunk line was involved. Yes sir, the ISPs like to put the buzz word Fiber into the ads whenever possible, whether totally true or not.

Not sure this is correct. I have had DOCSIS cable both here and in the UK and both installations have been of the FTTC (fibre to the cabinet) type, where the last few tens of metres is delivered over copper. Here in Bangkok we have a copper coaxial cable (same as you get to the TV box) running from a port on one of the poles outside into our premises. I don't think that's where the fibre terminates either, probably on the main road at the bottom of the soi, so copper for a couple of hundred metres. True.

Here in my Bangkok moobaan the DOCSIS trunk line running throughout the moobaan is what I will call TV RF Cable on steroids...physically it's basically just like the coax that runs into your TV settop box or cable modem but about an inch in diameter compared to the pencil diameter TV RF Cable that hooks to your home devices. That large trunk line runs throughout the moobaan of many sois and houses (approx 750 houses)....has amplifiers and splitters along the way on the trunk line. When connecting to your residence they just tap in a regular TV coax cable from a tap on the trunk line into your house....for my house that regular sized coax is probably a 25 meter run. This system was installed in mid 2011.

Late last year/early this year True also strung fiber down the "main" sois which really didn't have any houses as the houses are on the side sois that connect to the main sois. They may have been installing this fiber to hook into the DOCSIS trunk line nodes to supplement its capacity, but it was not for any True Fiber to Home installation.

Here in my moobaan your internet choices are either True DOCSIS or TOT ADSL. While TOT did install some electronic junction boxes fed by fiber last year, and the electronic junction boxes are now mounted up on poles away from any future flood waters, they still connect down to the old mechanical/analog junction boxes at ground level...from those old junction boxes the connection to the homes which can be thousand of meters is ADSL over phone lines. This upgrade did allow them to increase their ADSL speed offering from 6Mb to 20Mb since they no longer have the long copper trunk line running out of the moobaan to the their central connection office for the area.

No shortage of hybrid systems out there an since sometimes it's too expensive just to tear out and totally replace an older technology...instead you modify it...cross breed it...make a hybrid system....maybe part fiber....part DOCSIS...part xDSL...etc.

[SteveSamui6262]

I thought lightning never strikes twice

[ravip]

Belkin 12 Outlet Home/Office Surge Protector with Phone/Ethernet/Coaxial Protection and Extended Cord 4156 Joules

with Belkin Lifetime Warranty and $300,000 Connected Equipment Warranty

Edit

There is a newer model of this item:

http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Outlet-Protector-Telephone-Protection/dp/B003YNRWQA/ref=dp_ob_title_ce

http://www.belkin.com/us/p/P-BE112234-10/

Edited November 16, 2015 by ravip

[Berty100]

Belkin 12 Outlet Home/Office Surge Protector with Phone/Ethernet/Coaxial Protection and Extended Cord 4156 Joules

with Belkin Lifetime Warranty and $300,000 Connected Equipment Warranty

Edit

There is a newer model of this item:

http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Outlet-Protector-Telephone-Protection/dp/B003YNRWQA/ref=dp_ob_title_ce

http://www.belkin.com/us/p/P-BE112234-10/

And those 4000 joule would translate to Amp as?

I think it would be something like 20 Amp.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Berty100

[Crossy]

Belkin 12 Outlet Home/Office Surge Protector with Phone/Ethernet/Coaxial Protection and Extended Cord 4156 Joules

with Belkin Lifetime Warranty and $300,000 Connected Equipment Warranty

Edit

There is a newer model of this item:

http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Outlet-Protector-Telephone-Protection/dp/B003YNRWQA/ref=dp_ob_title_ce

http://www.belkin.com/us/p/P-BE112234-10/

And those 4000 joule would translate to Amp as?

I think it would be something like 20 Amp.

What parameters did you use to determine that?

Clue, there would be a time and voltage component involved.

[Berty100]

Belkin 12 Outlet Home/Office Surge Protector with Phone/Ethernet/Coaxial Protection and Extended Cord 4156 Joules

with Belkin Lifetime Warranty and $300,000 Connected Equipment Warranty

Edit

There is a newer model of this item:

http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Outlet-Protector-Telephone-Protection/dp/B003YNRWQA/ref=dp_ob_title_ce

http://www.belkin.com/us/p/P-BE112234-10/

And those 4000 joule would translate to Amp as?

I think it would be something like 20 Amp.

What parameters did you use to determine that?

Clue, there would be a time and voltage component involved.

http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/electric/Joule_to_Watt_Calculator.htm

So probably it would be only something like 0.000001 Amp, maybe.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Berty100

[beerzy]

Hello...first of all where are you. Surge protectors are great if you have an earth pin ie 3 pins in power socket not 2 and the ones sold in superarkets are really not that great....a previous post advised belkin which is good one that can be bought at IT shops... otherwise useless.what company does the supply of your service. what is the service and speeds you enjoy called....I still wouldn't rule out the power surge at this stage as Thai power is notorious for surges

Also usually overseas the companies will protect your service at minum cost to you. have you asked them this?Yes I am a

Telco IT consultant and have experience in the mining industry with lightning protection iNortern Australia.

[Berty100]

Hello...first of all where are you. Surge protectors are great if you have an earth pin ie 3 pins in power socket not 2 and the ones sold in superarkets are really not that great....a previous post advised belkin which is good one that can be bought at IT shops... otherwise useless.what company does the supply of your service. what is the service and speeds you enjoy called....I still wouldn't rule out the power surge at this stage as Thai power is notorious for surges

Also usually overseas the companies will protect your service at minum cost to you. have you asked them this?Yes I am a

Telco IT consultant and have experience in the mining industry with lightning protection iNortern Australia.

I am in East Pattaya and yes my house electrics are earthed.

Not sure what my speed has to do with this, but it is 10/1Mb, and the lightning strike was on the coaxial cable not on the mains. I have 3 RCBO's and 2 safe-T-cuts in the system and none of them tripped in either of the events. Each circuit has also a surge protector in the fuse box.

Both times it killed a single port on the router, first time the WAN port that is connected to the cable modem, and second time the LAN port that goes to the Ethernet switch.

In both cases it also killed a single LAN port from a 5 port switch down the network. It was twice the same switch and each time the LAN port that had the cable to the main switch inserted.

[Pib]

RCBOs, Safe-T-Cut type devices have zero effect on suppressing surges/spikes...they are purely fault/overcurrent devices. But some Safe-T-Cut boxes do have a separate surge protector included in the box. A separate surge protection device is usually needed and is designed to only deal with surges/spikes which last in the low microseconds to milliseconds range common with lightning strikes; not seconds long which might happen with your line voltage say jumping up to 300 for a few seconds. Seconds long surges may just smoke such a surge protection device or the device not even respond because most surge protectors don't even respond until the monetary voltage spike reaches around 400V.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Pib

[Pib]

Around 4 years ago a lightning strike rode-in via my phone/ADSL line. Same lightning bolt blew a hole in my neighbor's roof. That strike smoked my ADSL modem, one port on the separate router hooked to the modem, a VOIP adapter hooked to the router, a cordless phone hooked to the phone line, and some of the power adapters powering these devices. Numerous others electronic items and their power adapters throughout the house where not damaged. The lightning spike just followed the phone/ADSL circiut through the devices attached to the phone lines back to the associated line voltage power adapters. I now also have surge protectors on my phone lines.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Pib

[beerzy]

Make sure True installed a Galvanic Isolator on your cable line which which is a surge protector of sorts which blocks DC currents, hum, isolates different electrical sections like between buildings which can cause very significant voltage differences, etc. The isolator should be installed somewhere after it enters your residence....mine was located right after the cable comes through the wall on its way to the cable modem.

If you do have an isolator it;s probably a case of the cable system not being grounded at enough locations, improper grounding, etc. And sometimes even with all the proper equipment installed, surge protection, and great grounding, a lightning strike can still get through to your equipment. And the path the lightning surge is talking is could really be through your electrical circuit back to your cable internet/TV line but it's just your cable modem is less resistant to surges than your other electronic equipment.

My cable has a GIS103D galvanic isolator installed...see this Link.

Knock on wood but I've been with True cable since mid 2011, went through some hellish lightning storms here in Bangkok, an so far my True cable TV and internet equipment has not suffered any damage from lightning. In fact had a mini lightning storm within the hour...only last about 10 minutes here in western Bangkok.

Below is a short youtube video giving an example of an galvanic isolator on a cable line....you isolator should look the same although with different manufacturer labeling.

Since your cable modem/router is actually on loan to you from True, they will replace it free of charge.

I'm not on True but a local cable company, which leases the lines from CAT, and there is no galvanic isolator anywhere.I will talk with the cable company about this.

Is sucha galvanic isolator the same as Ubonjoe suggested, and can it be purchased locally at an affordable price?

My router and modem are also not on loan. With a 1 year contract paid upfront they wave the fee i normally have to pay to purchase the modem and router, but I think they replaced the router free of charge under warranty.

I also don't worry so much about that router, but there are many devices connected to my home network, and I think so far I was lucky that only the router ports and a cheap d-link switch were the only victims.

Berty me too I paid upfront but the CS staff said on return I would be paid the 2500 bht back. Now these lightning arrestors are usually located in the exchange. I did post before and ask a number of questions. The bielken surge power board is a toy. others have suggested better ones and there is a company in Australia that sell a product called Eliminator plus. this costs alot but they have many including a bolt onto your power board one that will protect the whole house. BUT with any of these protectors except the first option need a 3 pin GPO general purpose outlet) so the device can return the surge to earth. alot of thai houses have only 2 pins...active and neutral, no earth.

As I have said previously i am a telecom and IT consultant.

[Berty100]

Make sure True installed a Galvanic Isolator on your cable line which which is a surge protector of sorts which blocks DC currents, hum, isolates different electrical sections like between buildings which can cause very significant voltage differences, etc. The isolator should be installed somewhere after it enters your residence....mine was located right after the cable comes through the wall on its way to the cable modem.

If you do have an isolator it;s probably a case of the cable system not being grounded at enough locations, improper grounding, etc. And sometimes even with all the proper equipment installed, surge protection, and great grounding, a lightning strike can still get through to your equipment. And the path the lightning surge is talking is could really be through your electrical circuit back to your cable internet/TV line but it's just your cable modem is less resistant to surges than your other electronic equipment.

My cable has a GIS103D galvanic isolator installed...see this Link.

Knock on wood but I've been with True cable since mid 2011, went through some hellish lightning storms here in Bangkok, an so far my True cable TV and internet equipment has not suffered any damage from lightning. In fact had a mini lightning storm within the hour...only last about 10 minutes here in western Bangkok.

Below is a short youtube video giving an example of an galvanic isolator on a cable line....you isolator should look the same although with different manufacturer labeling.

Since your cable modem/router is actually on loan to you from True, they will replace it free of charge.

I'm not on True but a local cable company, which leases the lines from CAT, and there is no galvanic isolator anywhere.I will talk with the cable company about this.

Is sucha galvanic isolator the same as Ubonjoe suggested, and can it be purchased locally at an affordable price?

My router and modem are also not on loan. With a 1 year contract paid upfront they wave the fee i normally have to pay to purchase the modem and router, but I think they replaced the router free of charge under warranty.

I also don't worry so much about that router, but there are many devices connected to my home network, and I think so far I was lucky that only the router ports and a cheap d-link switch were the only victims.

Berty me too I paid upfront but the CS staff said on return I would be paid the 2500 bht back. Now these lightning arrestors are usually located in the exchange. I did post before and ask a number of questions. The bielken surge power board is a toy. others have suggested better ones and there is a company in Australia that sell a product called Eliminator plus. this costs alot but they have many including a bolt onto your power board one that will protect the whole house. BUT with any of these protectors except the first option need a 3 pin GPO general purpose outlet) so the device can return the surge to earth. alot of thai houses have only 2 pins...active and neutral, no earth.

As I have said previously i am a telecom and IT consultant.

No idea why you keep going about the 3 prong plug.

The lightning strike was on the coaxial cable, and that cable comes nowhere near my power board.

By the way, my power circuit have surge arresters and earthing properly installed.

A few years back there was a lightning strike on the high voltage lines in Pattaya, and all 3 RCBO's tripped and nothing was damaged inside my house. I remember there were reports of a lot of damage all over Pattaya on that occasion.

[beerzy]

Hi Berty Sorry you dont understand my question of the 3pin outlets. Ok with any lightning protection you buy the device will only work if there is the 3rd pin earth. Now that brings another question into the problem. Do you have a good earth in your home?

[beerzy]

Berty,

Hi me again....OK found your email but couldn't on post...the reason I asked what speed you run is that coax is a dead technology to deliver internet services.OK they could run your service on 2 wires but that wouldn't solve your problem as the surge protection is in the exchange that supplies your internet and they install to protect them not you. Now I think you tell them its blowing your devices (no doubt you already have). Now the coax (which is the street to home link)is being affected by the strikes which by the way are being induced from the electrical cables aboveSo ask your company to simply install

[Berty100]

I went to my cable company, and they said that it was impossible for lightning to strike on their cable They must be Thai.

He then showed me a device he said was installed where the cable from the street connects to the one on my property.

http://www.sat-foryou.com/product-%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%B8%E0%B8%9B%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%93%E0%B9%8C%E0%B8%9B%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%87%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%9F%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%9C%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%B2INFOSATISOLATOR-370019-1.html

I don't see this installed anywhere, so I nicked it anyway. Is this of any use in my case?