Usefruct in Pattaya, anyone succeeded lately?

[samsung99]

I will get my brand new house this December and want to get a usufruct from the land office.

Anyone succeeded lately? A lawyer told me it works if he will arrange a pre-meeting between him and the land office Head.

A little gift might help to accelerate things, without it might be difficult or even impossible.

Anyone succeeded lately in Pattaya?

Please NO comments like "rent don't buy" etc., just stay on the topic!

Please stick to Pattaya, it's not of a big help if you state that it worked well in whatever Isaan village.

Thanks for sharing your experience!

[cdnvic]

If you want Pattaya only replies, we'll move it to the Pattaya forum.

[samsung99]

If you want Pattaya only replies, we'll move it to the Pattaya forum.

Ok, let's open it up for other cities as well!

[kannot]

Every land office makes up their own rules despite them having a book of ALL the rules. I did it at Sam Roi Yot, you dont need a lawyer it cost me about 25 baht or some trivial amount, if you have a Thai Wife get her to go and ask at the land office, then if they say no call the Sam Roi Yot land office and get them to call the Pattaya office to tell em to do their f000000000king job.............is what Id do. Mst of the time they need a good kick up the arse, keep persevering dont give up, apply pressure make the buggers work, complain and moan like hell etc.

If your Wife ( assuming you have one) is a "normal Thai" she w ill just accept anything the land office says.......dont let her do this as often the person giving the information is too bone idle to actually check their own rules

[oxo1947]

A friend of mine was turned down at one of the smaller land offices outside Udon, they just took one look at it & said, oh I don't like the idea of that (as if my friend had just invented it) No .....no we wont be doing that.

This was a few years back when people forget that there really was no recourse---no phone number to complain to, & a Government that didn't worry at all about what was on social media........so good luck they really are a law unto themselves, ----How big was the gift the lawyer suggested ?.......I suppose it could always be a fall back option if all else fails.

[samsung99]

A friend of mine was turned down at one of the smaller land offices outside Udon, they just took one look at it & said, oh I don't like the idea of that (as if my friend had just invented it) No .....no we wont be doing that.

This was a few years back when people forget that there really was no recourse---no phone number to complain to, & a Government that didn't worry at all about what was on social media........so good luck they really are a law unto themselves, ----How big was the gift the lawyer suggested ?.......I suppose it could always be a fall back option if all else fails.

The lawyer will take a consulting fee for all his services. What he does with this cash it is none of my business, but we all know where some of the cash will flow to ;-)

No Idea so far how much he will ask, but I will keep you updated in mid of December when the whole transfer will take part.

[khun custard]

I'm a bit confused here....Sidhi-kep-kin/ Usufruct for what purpose...a foreigner trying to somehow secure/owning land or the house ...???

The former is illegal and the later, the best you can achieve(from my experience) is a yellow book and bliss

of nurturing a long and a great relationship.

If not.... sign it all over the the 50/50 kid!!

Our dealing with the Sattahip land office (for a Najomtien location) 8 years ago was tedious but professional... BUT take a lawyer just in case.

8 years on - I would have rented :-), :-)

[KhunG]

If you want Pattaya only replies, we'll move it to the Pattaya forum.

Ok, let's open it up for other cities as well!

I did it upcountry over a year ago. 6 KBaht to a lawyer for the paperwork and 75 Baht to the land office.

[onemorechang]

I'm a bit confused here....Sidhi-kep-kin/ Usufruct for what purpose...a foreigner trying to somehow secure/owning land or the house ...???

The former is illegal and the later, the best you can achieve(from my experience) is a yellow book and bliss

of nurturing a long and a great relationship.

If not.... sign it all over the the 50/50 kid!!

Our dealing with the Sattahip land office (for a Najomtien location) 8 years ago was tedious but professional... BUT take a lawyer just in case.

8 years on - I would have rented :-), :-)

Now I am confused.

Usufruct has nothing to do with ownership, its about right of use

I think, yes / no ?

I could be wrong.

Edited November 16, 2015 by onemorechang

[topt]

OP not recently but 5 years ago. Head honcho was refusing to play ball even though had lawyer there. Then the seller spoke to one of the staff she "knew" who brokered a deal and I had to pass over an envelope.

His excuse was he could not do it at the same time as the transfer and we could come back the following week to try again.........

However after the envelope was accepted it was all done and dusted very quickly.......

[janvranckx]

It costs me 73 THB to the landoffice in Chiangmai in december 2014 !!!

[samsung99]

I'm a bit confused here....Sidhi-kep-kin/ Usufruct for what purpose...a foreigner trying to somehow secure/owning land or the house ...???

The former is illegal and the later, the best you can achieve(from my experience) is a yellow book and bliss

of nurturing a long and a great relationship.

If not.... sign it all over the the 50/50 kid!!

Our dealing with the Sattahip land office (for a Najomtien location) 8 years ago was tedious but professional... BUT take a lawyer just in case.

8 years on - I would have rented :-), :-)

Now I am confused.

Usufruct has nothing to do with ownership, its about right of use

I think, yes / no ?

I could be wrong.

YES, its only right to use. You don't try to own it and you will not own anything. Basically a right to use until your time is over (until you die).

To make it legit you should not enter the value 0 as payment into the usufruct, but a realistic price. Why? Because no one who is not insane will leave you the right to use it for free. If you follow this little rule it can be seen as the safest way of using a property until your dead. But nothing is 100%, who knows what the laws of tomorrow will be. So only invest what you are ok to loose.

[samsung99]

It costs me 73 THB to the landoffice in Chiangmai in december 2014 !!!

Congratulations. May I ask what "price" you did put into the usufruct? Zero? I wonder if they still accept this, even in Chiang Mai. Anyway, enjoy your property!

[samsung99]

OP not recently but 5 years ago. Head honcho was refusing to play ball even though had lawyer there. Then the seller spoke to one of the staff she "knew" who brokered a deal and I had to pass over an envelope.

His excuse was he could not do it at the same time as the transfer and we could come back the following week to try again.........

However after the envelope was accepted it was all done and dusted very quickly.......

Congrats! Just wondering: Lets guess, I do have 10'000 in mind.... Or should the enveloppe be thicker? Assuming a house to register in the value of approx 5 MB.

Some hints are appreciated!

[topt]

OP not recently but 5 years ago. Head honcho was refusing to play ball even though had lawyer there. Then the seller spoke to one of the staff she "knew" who brokered a deal and I had to pass over an envelope.

His excuse was he could not do it at the same time as the transfer and we could come back the following week to try again.........

However after the envelope was accepted it was all done and dusted very quickly.......

Congrats! Just wondering: Lets guess, I do have 10'000 in mind.... Or should the enveloppe be thicker? Assuming a house to register in the value of approx 5 MB.

Some hints are appreciated!

Sounds dead on.... .

Considering they should action for free and in the current environment I see no reason for inflation......

[hugh2121]

Pattaya land office told me that they do, will not issue usufruct.

In which case, registered 30 year lease which states 30 years rent has been paid in advance gives security for 30 years.

How old are you?

[moonseeker]

H heard from a couple of friends ( 1 a lawyer) Pattaya LO will NOT do it anymore. But probably all a question of connections and knowledge how to oil the system? Interested to hear a few actual and present experiences. MS>

[properperson]

I'm a bit confused here....Sidhi-kep-kin/ Usufruct for what purpose...a foreigner trying to somehow secure/owning land or the house ...???

The former is illegal and the later, the best you can achieve(from my experience) is a yellow book and bliss

of nurturing a long and a great relationship.

If not.... sign it all over the the 50/50 kid!!

Our dealing with the Sattahip land office (for a Najomtien location) 8 years ago was tedious but professional... BUT take a lawyer just in case.

8 years on - I would have rented :-), :-)

Now I am confused.

Usufruct has nothing to do with ownership, its about right of use

I think, yes / no ?

I could be wrong.

YES, its only right to use. You don't try to own it and you will not own anything. Basically a right to use until your time is over (until you die).

To make it legit you should not enter the value 0 as payment into the usufruct, but a realistic price. Why? Because no one who is not insane will leave you the right to use it for free. If you follow this little rule it can be seen as the safest way of using a property until your dead. But nothing is 100%, who knows what the laws of tomorrow will be. So only invest what you are ok to loose.

My brother in law (Thai) is a senior partner at a Law firm....

We were discussing Ferrangs having Usefruct's added to the deeds only last month....

His slant on them is that the Ferrang who takes one out is likely to think that he's bomb proof and can live in the house till he pops his clogs...

But.....

He can't stop his ex lady (ie the owner of the house) selling the property (with the ferrang as a sitting tenant) - so when its sold to the local chapter of the hells angels throwing all night parties or maybe the local money lender who threatens to do harm to him if he stays - whats the Ferrang going to do then ??

Of if the ex rings the Police and says that he's hit her and threatened her...

Or suggests to the Police he's dealing in illegal substances and low and behold they find some when they rock round...

Brother in law reccons any lawyer worth his salts having been employed by the ex, would have the Ferrang packing his bags and running for the hills within the month....

I think i'll stick to renting....

[onemorechang]

My brother in law (Thai) is a senior partner at a Law firm....

We were discussing Ferrangs having Usefruct's added to the deeds only last month....

His slant on them is that the Ferrang who takes one out is likely to think that he's bomb proof and can live in the house till he pops his clogs...

But.....

He can't stop his ex lady (ie the owner of the house) selling the property (with the ferrang as a sitting tenant) - so when its sold to the local chapter of the hells angels throwing all night parties or maybe the local money lender who threatens to do harm to him if he stays - whats the Ferrang going to do then ??

Of if the ex rings the Police and says that he's hit her and threatened her...

Or suggests to the Police he's dealing in illegal substances and low and behold they find some when they rock round...

Brother in law reccons any lawyer worth his salts having been employed by the ex, would have the Ferrang packing his bags and running for the hills within the month....

I think i'll stick to renting....

This is a very funny post.

You talk about law.

You then talk about breaking the Law.

Then state your renting.

Bet your wife loves you for not giving her an asset.

just give loads of money each month, to someone out side the family.

Top marks

[digbeth]

My understanding of the matter is that it's a contract between the landowner and the one making use of the land, the land office only involvement is to record in the same manner of a lease,

If everything is above board, I don't see how the land office could object to recording the usufruct

[properperson]

My brother in law (Thai) is a senior partner at a Law firm....

We were discussing Ferrangs having Usefruct's added to the deeds only last month....

His slant on them is that the Ferrang who takes one out is likely to think that he's bomb proof and can live in the house till he pops his clogs...

But.....

He can't stop his ex lady (ie the owner of the house) selling the property (with the ferrang as a sitting tenant) - so when its sold to the local chapter of the hells angels throwing all night parties or maybe the local money lender who threatens to do harm to him if he stays - whats the Ferrang going to do then ??

Of if the ex rings the Police and says that he's hit her and threatened her...

Or suggests to the Police he's dealing in illegal substances and low and behold they find some when they rock round...

Brother in law reccons any lawyer worth his salts having been employed by the ex, would have the Ferrang packing his bags and running for the hills within the month....

I think i'll stick to renting....

This is a very funny post.

You talk about law.

You then talk about breaking the Law.

Then state your renting.

Bet your wife loves you for not giving her an asset.

just give loads of money each month, to someone out side the family.

Top marks

i'll have a pint of whatever he's on......

[kannot]

It costs me 73 THB to the landoffice in Chiangmai in december 2014 !!!

Correct ,anyone handing over money is a SUCKER all this talk of lawyers pahhhhhhhhhhh

[kannot]

I'm a bit confused here....Sidhi-kep-kin/ Usufruct for what purpose...a foreigner trying to somehow secure/owning land or the house ...???

The former is illegal and the later, the best you can achieve(from my experience) is a yellow book and bliss

of nurturing a long and a great relationship.

If not.... sign it all over the the 50/50 kid!!

Our dealing with the Sattahip land office (for a Najomtien location) 8 years ago was tedious but professional... BUT take a lawyer just in case.

8 years on - I would have rented :-), :-)

Now I am confused.

Usufruct has nothing to do with ownership, its about right of use

I think, yes / no ?

I could be wrong.

YES, its only right to use. You don't try to own it and you will not own anything. Basically a right to use until your time is over (until you die).

To make it legit you should not enter the value 0 as payment into the usufruct, but a realistic price. Why? Because no one who is not insane will leave you the right to use it for free. If you follow this little rule it can be seen as the safest way of using a property until your dead. But nothing is 100%, who knows what the laws of tomorrow will be. So only invest what you are ok to loose.

My brother in law (Thai) is a senior partner at a Law firm....

We were discussing Ferrangs having Usefruct's added to the deeds only last month....

His slant on them is that the Ferrang who takes one out is likely to think that he's bomb proof and can live in the house till he pops his clogs...

But.....

He can't stop his ex lady (ie the owner of the house) selling the property (with the ferrang as a sitting tenant) - so when its sold to the local chapter of the hells angels throwing all night parties or maybe the local money lender who threatens to do harm to him if he stays - whats the Ferrang going to do then ??

Of if the ex rings the Police and says that he's hit her and threatened her...

Or suggests to the Police he's dealing in illegal substances and low and behold they find some when they rock round...

Brother in law reccons any lawyer worth his salts having been employed by the ex, would have the Ferrang packing his bags and running for the hills within the month....

I think i'll stick to renting....

Id stick to shutting up too if I were you, the usufruct is there in case your Wife dies before you its useless in a divorce and will be cancelled.

[connda]

I processed one up in Northern Thailand and I can vouch that paying for the 'expedited service' was well worth it and I'd do it again if I had to. Heck, I can pay for expedited Passport processing in the US, so what's the difference.

Best of luck!

[connda]

I'm a bit confused here....Sidhi-kep-kin/ Usufruct for what purpose...a foreigner trying to somehow secure/owning land or the house ...???

The former is illegal and the later, the best you can achieve(from my experience) is a yellow book and bliss

of nurturing a long and a great relationship.

If not.... sign it all over the the 50/50 kid!!

Our dealing with the Sattahip land office (for a Najomtien location) 8 years ago was tedious but professional... BUT take a lawyer just in case.

8 years on - I would have rented :-), :-)

Now I am confused.

Usufruct has nothing to do with ownership, its about right of use

I think, yes / no ?

I could be wrong.

The right of use, in my case, until I die. If my wife passes before me, my Thai son will hold the land title and we, as a family, are close.

[connda]

H heard from a couple of friends ( 1 a lawyer) Pattaya LO will NOT do it anymore. But probably all a question of connections and knowledge how to oil the system? Interested to hear a few actual and present experiences. MS>

We have a saying the in US: "Money talks, bullsh*t walks." I seriously suggest lawyering up and having him work with the LO to determine how thick the envelop needs to be to expedite their 'services', because they are obviously making up their own rules. Play the game or find somewhere else to live. Up to you.

[connda]

I'm a bit confused here....Sidhi-kep-kin/ Usufruct for what purpose...a foreigner trying to somehow secure/owning land or the house ...???

The former is illegal and the later, the best you can achieve(from my experience) is a yellow book and bliss

of nurturing a long and a great relationship.

If not.... sign it all over the the 50/50 kid!!

Our dealing with the Sattahip land office (for a Najomtien location) 8 years ago was tedious but professional... BUT take a lawyer just in case.

8 years on - I would have rented :-), :-)

Now I am confused.

Usufruct has nothing to do with ownership, its about right of use

I think, yes / no ?

I could be wrong.

YES, its only right to use. You don't try to own it and you will not own anything. Basically a right to use until your time is over (until you die).

To make it legit you should not enter the value 0 as payment into the usufruct, but a realistic price. Why? Because no one who is not insane will leave you the right to use it for free. If you follow this little rule it can be seen as the safest way of using a property until your dead. But nothing is 100%, who knows what the laws of tomorrow will be. So only invest what you are ok to loose.

My brother in law (Thai) is a senior partner at a Law firm....

We were discussing Ferrangs having Usefruct's added to the deeds only last month....

His slant on them is that the Ferrang who takes one out is likely to think that he's bomb proof and can live in the house till he pops his clogs...

But.....

He can't stop his ex lady (ie the owner of the house) selling the property (with the ferrang as a sitting tenant) - so when its sold to the local chapter of the hells angels throwing all night parties or maybe the local money lender who threatens to do harm to him if he stays - whats the Ferrang going to do then ??

Of if the ex rings the Police and says that he's hit her and threatened her...

Or suggests to the Police he's dealing in illegal substances and low and behold they find some when they rock round...

Brother in law reccons any lawyer worth his salts having been employed by the ex, would have the Ferrang packing his bags and running for the hills within the month....

I think i'll stick to renting....

I might have to go back an read it again, but I'm pretty sure my contract stated that I had the right to 'modify' the property, which means I could raze it to the ground before I walk away if I was taken for a ride. In my case, it wouldn't be my family that made that situation occur. It could only be something from the outside like a radical change in laws or government intervention.

These contracts are best suited for farangs with close-knit families. If you don't have a supportive, close-knit family which has a sense of kwaam gà-dtan-yuu, or deep gratitude, toward you as their provider, then a Usefruct might not be for you. Personally, I pulled my family out of abject poverty and provide a good life for them, and we have a close-knit family. My family will take care of me in my old age, I don't doubt that for a second. But I can only speak for myself.

[mark131v]

The usefruct is just there as a safety blanket if you are married in case the missus dies, it will allow you to stay in the marital home with your offspring until you pop your clogs, nothing more...

Mine cost me about 50baht from Pattaya Land Office a couple of years ago and is well worth the effort but as Kannot stated it is absolutely useless in the case of marriage breakdown or divorce as it like everything else in the marriage is split much the same as in the rest of the world

If you take it out before marriage there are other rules but as I did not do that I have no idea what they are but for me the peace of mind is worth it's weight in gold

[onemorechang]

I might have to go back an read it again, but I'm pretty sure my contract stated that I had the right to 'modify' the property, which means I could raze it to the ground before I walk away if I was taken for a ride. In my case, it wouldn't be my family that made that situation occur. It could only be something from the outside like a radical change in laws or government intervention.

These contracts are best suited for farangs with close-knit families. If you don't have a supportive, close-knit family which has a sense of kwaam gà-dtan-yuu, or deep gratitude, toward you as their provider, then a Usefruct might not be for you. Personally, I pulled my family out of abject poverty and provide a good life for them, and we have a close-knit family. My family will take care of me in my old age, I don't doubt that for a second. But I can only speak for myself.

Yes.

But why not put the house in your name. then have a Usefruct on the land.

That way you can just Bulldoze the house if it all goes Tits up.

This may give you a chance to negotiate a price with the ex, before its knocked down.

Think you can do that. but not 100%

Anyone Know ?

[anto]

OP not recently but 5 years ago. Head honcho was refusing to play ball even though had lawyer there. Then the seller spoke to one of the staff she "knew" who brokered a deal and I had to pass over an envelope.

His excuse was he could not do it at the same time as the transfer and we could come back the following week to try again.........

However after the envelope was accepted it was all done and dusted very quickly.......

In Chiang Mai where i live now ,it was the same .The usefruct was done 2 weeks after the house/land transfer.The Lawyer charged B5000 for this service . ..