New Zealand opens voting on new flag

[nidieunimaitre]

Did they discount the one of a guy in Wellies and a sheep?

The one of a guy in Wellies and in a sheep was already copyrighted by several North African countries.

Sorry, but sometimes I just can't help it.

[Scott]

Please stay on topic. One post has been removed.

[Seastallion]

There are some advocates of that but then again it might cloud the issue.

According to extensive scientific research (by me, last night), about 0,000000000000001% of TV Forum members understand the pun.

Wow I'm clever then...Land of the Long White Cloudiness and the All Black rugbyness

Great, as it is an obscure issue. You a Kiwi?? I happen to know cause ten years ago here I met a Kiwi who was hot on the trail of Aotearoa as the name.

The real challenge here is, however, should your choose to accept it, to communicate on the page how to pronounce Aotearoa (Aotea-roa). Even using the phonetic alphabet the pronunciation has to have both a NZ standard accent interlaced by the original Maori sound systems. No British or American phonics allowed. Fair is fair.

Having an island country btw named after the shape of the clouds it gets is sort of like naming a place "Iceland." Whatever may be true about a country, the name is just not an attraction. (Hence the pun...)

It's therefore all the more important to get the flag right, ne c'est pas.

So named by the voyagers from Hawaiki arriving from the East. It translates as "cloud white long", or long white cloud. After thousands of Kms of voyage from the East, the first thing one sees of the country is the clouds floating above the land.

As a person fluent in one Polynesian dialect and also a Melanesian dialect, I can with authority advise on the pronunciation; ah or teh ah roh ah is pretty close.

I agree that the native name is what it should be.

[tigermoth]

The flag certainly is too similar to Australia’s one and people globally erroneously identify it as such . I’d like to see the Union Jack kept in the corner, showing continuing allegiance to the Commonwealth, but an adaption of the fourth from left flag proposal with blue being the upper background colour. Remember the All Blacks (rugby team) logo is the silver fern on a black background. Otherwise, as some posters have suggested, a stylised kiwi, instead of the fern may be another favourable option.

What I find offensive is that the referendum excludes New Zealanders who haven't been in the country within the past 3 years . Just because they haven’t done so does not follow that they have less love for their country or feelings of patriotism than those who have or who reside there . Elements of personal financial status, commitments, or others factors can thwart fulfilling the want to visit or return home permanently.

I agree. I love my country of birth but due to circumstances haven't been back for about 5 years. I still have family there. Why can't I vote. Will they stop issuing passports to us next unless we return every year. As to the new flag, I think they are trying too hard. I would prefer a simple dignified background of all deep blue representing the Pacific, the silver fern as shown on some of the designs, maybe a kiwi, and the southern cross as the existing flag has. There is no need for adding red to it and certainly the black is ridiculous, a throwoff of the all blacks I would think which is not necessary.

[nidieunimaitre]

Ah Seastallion,

Can you please stop going on about Aotearoa and Polynesia?

I am in tears already.

Next you will mention the maoris' stopover at Muri beach, Raro?

Or even Aitutaki, Samoa I Sisifo, Niue, Tongatapu?

Enough!

PS For some weird reason, the pronunciation rules of Maori / Polynesian words are about the same as for written Dutch. It made me popular amongst the original inhabitants of your country & islands to the north.

I can even pronounce KiiKii, or Waikaremoana, Ngarahue, Steinlager, albeit with a mainland accent.

OK OK Steinlager does not count.

Vailima, Captain Cook' lager and Hinano taste better anyway.

[Publicus]

Wow I'm clever then...Land of the Long White Cloudiness and the All Black rugbyness

Great, as it is an obscure issue. You a Kiwi?? I happen to know cause ten years ago here I met a Kiwi who was hot on the trail of Aotearoa as the name.

The real challenge here is, however, should your choose to accept it, to communicate on the page how to pronounce Aotearoa (Aotea-roa). Even using the phonetic alphabet the pronunciation has to have both a NZ standard accent interlaced by the original Maori sound systems. No British or American phonics allowed. Fair is fair.

Having an island country btw named after the shape of the clouds it gets is sort of like naming a place "Iceland." Whatever may be true about a country, the name is just not an attraction. (Hence the pun...)

It's therefore all the more important to get the flag right, ne c'est pas.

So named by the voyagers from Hawaiki arriving from the East. It translates as "cloud white long", or long white cloud. After thousands of Kms of voyage from the East, the first thing one sees of the country is the clouds floating above the land.

As a person fluent in one Polynesian dialect and also a Melanesian dialect, I can with authority advise on the pronunciation; ah or teh ah roh ah is pretty close.

I agree that the native name is what it should be.

The post leaves me impressed by your great and magnificent journey of those several hundred years ago.

Did you know Captain Cook? Do any translating??

So what was the original flag back then as you and shipmates on your three-mast approached the majestic island under its extended aotearoa? Were the winds fair? And the native maidens fairer??

Clearly, your posting at TVF is your present privileged reward for the productive and adventurous good life you led back then.

[Roadman]

The referendum is expensive and unpopular. There's no real NEED for change.

That the flag is confused with Australia's is really a minor issue, but if it really bothers some Kiwis, why not just tell the Aussies to change theirs.

Make it a wager on the next RWC: loser has to change.

Rubbish its $26m. Nobody was battering an eyelid at the $1billion that was wiped of the share value on the government sale of 49% of two government electricity utilities last year when the loony Labour left and the ridiculous greens said they would appeal their sale.. And there is need for change to remove the British Union Jack but the democratic process will decide that.

[tropo]

The referendum is expensive and unpopular. There's no real NEED for change.

That the flag is confused with Australia's is really a minor issue, but if it really bothers some Kiwis, why not just tell the Aussies to change theirs.

Make it a wager on the next RWC: loser has to change.

It is not a minor issue when the whole world thinks your flag is Australia's. Very few people other than New Zealanders and perhaps Australians can pick the difference. I'll bet most Australians would think it is their own flag too if flown somewhere else in a lineup of other flags. I wouldn't be surprised if many New Zealanders can't tell the difference, especially at a glance.

This is a big issue and one of national identity.

Edited November 21, 2015 by tropo

[Seastallion]

Wow I'm clever then...Land of the Long White Cloudiness and the All Black rugbyness

Great, as it is an obscure issue. You a Kiwi?? I happen to know cause ten years ago here I met a Kiwi who was hot on the trail of Aotearoa as the name.

The real challenge here is, however, should your choose to accept it, to communicate on the page how to pronounce Aotearoa (Aotea-roa). Even using the phonetic alphabet the pronunciation has to have both a NZ standard accent interlaced by the original Maori sound systems. No British or American phonics allowed. Fair is fair.

Having an island country btw named after the shape of the clouds it gets is sort of like naming a place "Iceland." Whatever may be true about a country, the name is just not an attraction. (Hence the pun...)

It's therefore all the more important to get the flag right, ne c'est pas.

So named by the voyagers from Hawaiki arriving from the East. It translates as "cloud white long", or long white cloud. After thousands of Kms of voyage from the East, the first thing one sees of the country is the clouds floating above the land.

As a person fluent in one Polynesian dialect and also a Melanesian dialect, I can with authority advise on the pronunciation; ah or teh ah roh ah is pretty close.

I agree that the native name is what it should be.

The post leaves me impressed by your great and magnificent journey of those several hundred years ago.

Did you know Captain Cook? Do any translating??

So what was the original flag back then as you and shipmates on your three-mast approached the majestic island under its extended aotearoa? Were the winds fair? And the native maidens fairer??

Clearly, your posting at TVF is your present privileged reward for the productive and adventurous good life you led back then.

Single-masted canoes with the Polynesian triangle sail, and centuries before Cook.

From what I can gather, the Moriori were not quite as fair as the invading Maori.

Nidie...Vailima is indeed a good drop. Compliments of early German influences.

[nidieunimaitre]

Kiwis, you lucky basta....!

You are allowed to vote about your own flag.

We Europeans NEVER got to vote whether we wanted the UK in the EU.

And now those spoiled brats are saying: " unless you give us even more favours, we are out!"

General De Gaulle was right: NON NON NON.

But I still love you Kiwis.

And do get rid of that colonialist symbol in your old flag.

[nidieunimaitre]

Wow I'm clever then...Land of the Long White Cloudiness and the All Black rugbyness

So named by the voyagers from Hawaiki arriving from the East. It translates as "cloud white long", or long white cloud. After thousands of Kms of voyage from the East, the first thing one sees of the country is the clouds floating above the land.

As a person fluent in one Polynesian dialect and also a Melanesian dialect, I can with authority advise on the pronunciation; ah or teh ah roh ah is pretty close.

I agree that the native name is what it should be.

The post leaves me impressed by your great and magnificent journey of those several hundred years ago.

Did you know Captain Cook? Do any translating??

So what was the original flag back then as you and shipmates on your three-mast approached the majestic island under its extended aotearoa? Were the winds fair? And the native maidens fairer??

Clearly, your posting at TVF is your present privileged reward for the productive and adventurous good life you led back then.

Single-masted canoes with the Polynesian triangle sail, and centuries before Cook.

From what I can gather, the Moriori were not quite as fair as the invading Maori.

Nidie...Vailima is indeed a good drop. Compliments of early German influences.

Ah the moriori.

"Shall we fight them and betray our culture, or shall we let them slaughter us?"

Many anarchists have asked that same question.

[nidieunimaitre]

In my days - long ago, don't know about now - the Samoans of German ancestry had their own reserved seat in parliament.

Guess it was a thank you for Vailima?

Ah I could tell you stories about Samoa, but I am not a story teller or Tusitala.

[Scott]

A post in a foreign language has been removed. English is the only language allowed on this portion of the forum.

[Linky]

Lived in NZ. For 5 years. In Auckland. Beautiful city on the harbour. South Island is spectacular.

So sorry it became far too expensive for a single man to live there. A very expensive country to live.

[bangon04]

The referendum is expensive and unpopular. There's no real NEED for change.

That the flag is confused with Australia's is really a minor issue, but if it really bothers some Kiwis, why not just tell the Aussies to change theirs.

Make it a wager on the next RWC: loser has to change.

It is not a minor issue when the whole world thinks your flag is Australia's. Very few people other than New Zealanders and perhaps Australians can pick the difference. I'll bet most Australians would think it is their own flag too if flown somewhere else in a lineup of other flags. I wouldn't be surprised if many New Zealanders can't tell the difference, especially at a glance.

This is a big issue and one of national identity.

"National Identity" is a moot point - most people in the world think the flags are the same, most people in the world cannot distinguish the accent from Australian, despite protestations from Kiwis..

Most people in the world would find it more convenient if NZ were part of Australasia the nation.

NZ identity is more linked with being an outdoor film set for Lord of the Rings...... somehow they hid the sheep during filming. They also hid the kangaroos...oops

Without the national rugby team, "National Identity" would be a fail.

It's a pity, but that is how it is.

[tropo]

The referendum is expensive and unpopular. There's no real NEED for change.

That the flag is confused with Australia's is really a minor issue, but if it really bothers some Kiwis, why not just tell the Aussies to change theirs.

Make it a wager on the next RWC: loser has to change.

It is not a minor issue when the whole world thinks your flag is Australia's. Very few people other than New Zealanders and perhaps Australians can pick the difference. I'll bet most Australians would think it is their own flag too if flown somewhere else in a lineup of other flags. I wouldn't be surprised if many New Zealanders can't tell the difference, especially at a glance.

This is a big issue and one of national identity.

"National Identity" is a moot point - most people in the world think the flags are the same, most people in the world cannot distinguish the accent from Australian, despite protestations from Kiwis..

Most people in the world would find it more convenient if NZ were part of Australasia the nation.

NZ identity is more linked with being an outdoor film set for Lord of the Rings...... somehow they hid the sheep during filming. They also hid the kangaroos...oops

Without the national rugby team, "National Identity" would be a fail.

It's a pity, but that is how it is.

It's not a "moot point" and your reasoning makes no sense at all.

National identity is being able to identify the country as an independent nation, seperate from others (in this case Australia).

Obviously this is very difficult when they share a flag nearly identical with their nearest neighbour.

in 1901 they chose to remain an independent nation (from Australia), so they should make that point clearer to the international community. Having a different flag will be a very good start.

[BookMan]

Why not just use the Australian flag? Most people in the world can't tell the difference anyway.

The Union jack featuring on the Australian flag is an embarrassment.

I'd love to see Australia have a similar vote

[nidieunimaitre]

The referendum is expensive and unpopular. There's no real NEED for change.

That the flag is confused with Australia's is really a minor issue, but if it really bothers some Kiwis, why not just tell the Aussies to change theirs.

Make it a wager on the next RWC: loser has to change.

It is not a minor issue when the whole world thinks your flag is Australia's. Very few people other than New Zealanders and perhaps Australians can pick the difference. I'll bet most Australians would think it is their own flag too if flown somewhere else in a lineup of other flags. I wouldn't be surprised if many New Zealanders can't tell the difference, especially at a glance.

This is a big issue and one of national identity.

"National Identity" is a moot point - most people in the world think the flags are the same, most people in the world cannot distinguish the accent from Australian, despite protestations from Kiwis..

Most people in the world would find it more convenient if NZ were part of Australasia the nation.

NZ identity is more linked with being an outdoor film set for Lord of the Rings...... somehow they hid the sheep during filming. They also hid the kangaroos...oops

Without the national rugby team, "National Identity" would be a fail.

It's a pity, but that is how it is.

Really?

You need new ears mate.

There is a huge difference between a Kiwi accent and an Austrian accent.

And also, Kiwis do not have an accent.

[tropo]

Why not just use the Australian flag? Most people in the world can't tell the difference anyway.

LOL. It would be like suggesting that Canada and the USA use the same flag, because most non-Americans can't tell the difference... or why not use the same flag in Mexico as well - they're all part of the same land mass... or perhaps Thailand, Burma, Laos, Malaysia and Vietnam should use the same flag. Why bother with different flags in Africa? Can anyone really tell the difference between Nigeria or Niger, Chad or Sudan, Burundi or Rwanda, Sierra Leone, Senegal or Somalia?

The whole purpose of flags is to distinguish nation states.

If NZ had chosen a different flag a hundred years ago, we wouldn't be having a conversation like this. i.e. Teaching ignorant foreigners that they are infact 2 distinct nations. I'd say the main problem was keeping the British Monarchy happy and holding on to the Union Jack.

I think a lot of foreigners will be surprised to learn that the governments of Australian and NZ are technically operating illegally as they never declared independence from the crown and never established constitutions of their own. Laws are a blend of British and new laws. It is a huge mess that they'll probably never sort out. In reality, they are operating under the "leave well enough alone" principal and trying to keep it a secret.

[tropo]

Really?

You need new ears mate.

There is a huge difference between a Kiwi accent and an Austrian accent.

And also, Kiwis do not have an accent.

This reply is as ridiculous as your first, mate. For starters, I lived in NZ for 17 years and Australia for 20, so I know exactly the difference in accent. Foreigners do have difficulty telling the difference. My wife can't and she spent a month in both countries.

Then I suggest you have a look at a World map. An Austrian accent is quite distinct from both a NZ and an Australian accent.

[nidieunimaitre]

I never heard a Kiwi with a Kurt Waldheim or Schwarzenegger accent.

Admittedly, Piggy Muldoon would have been more complete with such an accent.

Speaking of Muldoon, do you know he once did a guest appearance in the Rocky Horror Show?

Maybe he was into cabaret all his life?

Now get back on topic!

Or I will start telling real true Kiwi stories.

[nidieunimaitre]

Back on topic.

Why does Austria not change it's name (and flag, if they wish)?

That would make it less likely that "some" get confused by my humour.

I'm talking to you Tropo.

[tropo]

Back on topic.

Why does Austria not change it's name (and flag, if they wish)?

That would make it less likely that "some" get confused by my humour.

I'm talking to you Tropo.

LOL. Nice try! I reckon you made a spelling error and now you're embarrassed and passing it off as "humour".

If you want to express humour, may I suggest you use emoticons. Perhaps most of what you've posted on here so far is humour?

[nidieunimaitre]

Back on topic.

Why does Austria not change it's name (and flag, if they wish)?

That would make it less likely that "some" get confused by my humour.

I'm talking to you Tropo.

LOL. Nice try! I reckon you made a spelling error and now you're embarrassed and passing it off as "humour".

If you want to express humour, may I suggest you use emoticons. Perhaps most of what you've posted on here so far is humour?

No way I will use emoticons.

I am too old for that.

And no spelling error.

PS. That last sentence really hurts. (but even that will not make me use an emoticon)

[tropo]

Back on topic.

Why does Austria not change it's name (and flag, if they wish)?

That would make it less likely that "some" get confused by my humour.

I'm talking to you Tropo.

LOL. Nice try! I reckon you made a spelling error and now you're embarrassed and passing it off as "humour".

If you want to express humour, may I suggest you use emoticons. Perhaps most of what you've posted on here so far is humour?

No way I will use emoticons.

I am too old for that.

And no spelling error.

PS. That last sentence really hurts. (but even that will not make me use an emoticon)

[Linzz]

Yes I'm kiwi and live in NZ with my Thai wife and kids. Uncertain if I really want to end up in Thailand too. Love tropical nature and the climate there but there is more to life than warm weather. Political uncertainty and a lot of negative talk about Thailand is a bit off putting but you make your own happiness anywhere I guess.Also the fact that people break their necks to get into NZ makes me think I'm probably in the right place already? We'll see.

Seastalion is right with the pronunciation. I do not like any of the flags on offer, all a bit clumsy so I won't be voting for any of them but probably vote to retain what we have even if it's close to the Aussie flag. If there was a Kiwi then I would certainly vote for it, but none and I don't know why. Silver ferns grow in other countries but kiwi's don't. I'm a kiwi as the people here term themselves. so.....??? I don't mind the union jack in a small corner, like it or not, it's a part of our history, but a larger KIWI should take care of our otherness.

[Linky]

Yes I'm kiwi and live in NZ with my Thai wife and kids. Uncertain if I really want to end up in Thailand too. Love tropical nature and the climate there but there is more to life than warm weather. Political uncertainty and a lot of negative talk about Thailand is a bit off putting but you make your own happiness anywhere I guess.Also the fact that people break their necks to get into NZ makes me think I'm probably in the right place already? We'll see.

Seastalion is right with the pronunciation. I do not like any of the flags on offer, all a bit clumsy so I won't be voting for any of them but probably vote to retain what we have even if it's close to the Aussie flag. If there was a Kiwi then I would certainly vote for it, but none and I don't know why. Silver ferns grow in other countries but kiwi's don't. I'm a kiwi as the people here term themselves. so.....??? I don't mind the union jack in a small corner, like it or not, it's a part of our history, but a larger KIWI should take care of our otherness.

Kia kaha bro

[phutoie2]

Kiwis, you lucky basta....!

You are allowed to vote about your own flag.

We Europeans NEVER got to vote whether we wanted the UK in the EU.

And now those spoiled brats are saying: " unless you give us even more favours, we are out!"

General De Gaulle was right: NON NON NON.

But I still love you Kiwis.

And do get rid of that colonialist symbol in your old flag.

without the Brits at the heart of NATO and the EU most Euro's would be still licking out German or Russian dustbins. Spare us the colonialist BS too, we have been flying that flag since 1606 and most couldn't give a rats a*se what you do with your flags.

[Linzz]

Yes I'm kiwi and live in NZ with my Thai wife and kids. Uncertain if I really want to end up in Thailand too. Love tropical nature and the climate there but there is more to life than warm weather. Political uncertainty and a lot of negative talk about Thailand is a bit off putting but you make your own happiness anywhere I guess.Also the fact that people break their necks to get into NZ makes me think I'm probably in the right place already? We'll see.

Seastalion is right with the pronunciation. I do not like any of the flags on offer, all a bit clumsy so I won't be voting for any of them but probably vote to retain what we have even if it's close to the Aussie flag. If there was a Kiwi then I would certainly vote for it, but none and I don't know why. Silver ferns grow in other countries but kiwi's don't. I'm a kiwi as the people here term themselves. so.....??? I don't mind the union jack in a small corner, like it or not, it's a part of our history, but a larger KIWI should take care of our otherness.

Kia kaha bro

Kia ora e hoa

[exbikey]

Yes I'm kiwi and live in NZ with my Thai wife and kids. Uncertain if I really want to end up in Thailand too. Love tropical nature and the climate there but there is more to life than warm weather. Political uncertainty and a lot of negative talk about Thailand is a bit off putting but you make your own happiness anywhere I guess.Also the fact that people break their necks to get into NZ makes me think I'm probably in the right place already? We'll see.

Seastalion is right with the pronunciation. I do not like any of the flags on offer, all a bit clumsy so I won't be voting for any of them but probably vote to retain what we have even if it's close to the Aussie flag. If there was a Kiwi then I would certainly vote for it, but none and I don't know why. Silver ferns grow in other countries but kiwi's don't. I'm a kiwi as the people here term themselves. so.....??? I don't mind the union jack in a small corner, like it or not, it's a part of our history, but a larger KIWI should take care of our otherness.

Kia kaha bro

Kia ora e hoa

I could be wrong but I thought you weren't allowed to use foreign languages on this forum?