Taiwan Work -Scam?

[Maybole]

My nephew has telephoned my wife with a request for help in obtaining a passport because he wants to work for a huge salary in Taiwan.

After obtaining a passport he will pay an agent to get a work permit and with this he will buy a ticket to Taiwan where he will be able to pick up a " good " job.

I suspect a Scam.

I remember, that, about 2 months ago, thai press reported that police in Isaan had received complaints from a large number of thais who had paid money to agents who promised similar work in Taiwan.

I think that the same gang is now operating in Chiangmai. Please warn your relatives.

[Seligne2]

I know a woman who happily worked in Taipei for a couple of years for a good company for a very good (by Thai standards) salary. So jobs in Taiwan could be legitimate, could be a scam. Exercise due diligence.

[arunsakda]

A scam. Follow through with this hare-brained scheme and he will be sorry. Could end up a virtual slave on a fishing boat or some other niggtmare.

[TheSiemReaper]

Pure scam unless your nephew has mad skills that are in high-demand and is already paid very well - there's nothing in Taiwan that's going to pay better. Given how little a Thai passport costs... that he's asking for the money says that this isn't the case. So it's a scam.

[WaiLai]

Having worked for the federal government in Taiwan for 3 years, subjected to and witnessed firsthand scam offers by "agents" ( which Taiwan stated they would make illegal 8 years ago!) I could give you some reasonable advice.

My first question is "What kind of job is this family member applying for?"

[mamborobert]

Could be either way (legit or a scam).

My wife has now and in the past family members working in Taiwan, mostly in unskilled/labour jobs, one for 8 years now, one has come back and now managers a Silver shop on the Chinese tourist trails.

In the majority of cases they got the jobs on word of mouth, family members helped with payments for passport and flights (pretty cheap now)...a few wanted to go but could not through a lack of a Thai ID. It is now an aim for most of the young men in the extended family to go to Taiwan for a few years to then set themselves up back in Thailand.

In ALL cases they spoke and read Mandarin and that was how they found out about the jobs and obtained the jobs, educartion was not a factor for these jobs.

You would have to be wary of an agent/labour hire company coming to little old CM to seek out unskilled labour when it is far cheaper to get them from Indon/Viet etc and moreso soon after ASEAN. Debt bondage would also be a real concern here for the desperate or unworldly..

.

Edited November 21, 2015 by mamborobert

[Trujillo]

What makes you people automatically think it's a scam? I know Taiwan better than most and have met many people who have worked or are still working there. With overtime in a factory you can make over 40,000 baht a month. I know one woman who has been going back year after year when her contract is up. They live in dorms and are not free to just go anywhere they please, but they are happy with the conditions and, as I have said, often go back for more.

Beats working for bosses in Thailand that make them work 14 hours a day with no time off for 9,000 baht a month.

Don't be such internet sheep -- "OH! I read an online article about all this horrible Taiwan stuff!" Sure, there are some bad apples, but they are the ones that get the press.

As of Sept. 2013, there were 62,271 Thai workers (13.20 percent of the total foreign workforce) in Taiwan. That's a lot of scamming, right?

Due the due diligence and find out what is really going on before tar and feathering the whole foreign labor market.

[WaiLai]

What makes you people automatically think it's a scam? I know Taiwan better than most and have met many people who have worked or are still working there. With overtime in a factory you can make over 40,000 baht a month. I know one woman who has been going back year after year when her contract is up. They live in dorms and are not free to just go anywhere they please, but they are happy with the conditions and, as I have said, often go back for more.

Beats working for bosses in Thailand that make them work 14 hours a day with no time off for 9,000 baht a month.

Don't be such internet sheep -- "OH! I read an online article about all this horrible Taiwan stuff!" Sure, there are some bad apples, but they are the ones that get the press.

As of Sept. 2013, there were 62,271 Thai workers (13.20 percent of the total foreign workforce) in Taiwan. That's a lot of scamming, right?

Due the due diligence and find out what is really going on before tar and feathering the whole foreign labor market.

Have you worked in Taiwan Trujillo?

If not, I highly recommend it as long as you have professional certifications.

Thai workers making up 13.2% of the manual labour/sweatshop based foreign worker force might be a little more accurate. 40,000 baht/month seems quite a stretch since native English-speaking certified teachers are paid only slightly more than that amount. (non-certified back-packer teachers working for a bushiban may make 40k/month)

Not many Thais have the prerequisite universally recognized education credentials needed in Taiwan to find themselves in professions.

The Taiwanese pride themselves on academic scholarship and being a foreigner sets you at the back of the already queued-up lines of Taiwanese waiting for a break.

Yes, I can see the appeal of escaping the throes of Thailand, using ones bilingualism to find a job that pays better than it would in Thailand. Even though it is in labor-camp environment.

Edited November 21, 2015 by WaiLai

[Maybole]

Further information. He has to obtain a thai passport and a tourist visa, On arrival in Taiwan, the agent will find him a job in a factory assembling mobile phones.

????

[TheSiemReaper]

Further information. He has to obtain a thai passport and a tourist visa, On arrival in Taiwan, the agent will find him a job in a factory assembling mobile phones.

????

Seems highly unlikely - almost all the world's mobile phones are assembled in Shenzhen, China at the Foxconn campus (of literally millions of Chinese workers) there.

[WaiLai]

Further information. He has to obtain a thai passport and a tourist visa, On arrival in Taiwan, the agent will find him a job in a factory assembling mobile phones.

????

Seems highly unlikely - almost all the world's mobile phones are assembled in Shenzhen, China at the Foxconn campus (of literally millions of Chinese workers) there.

It's true..... there isn't much except for certain garments that the Taiwanese won't send off-shore for manufacturing. The KMT is constantly being accused of selling out to China.

[Trujillo]

Have you worked in Taiwan Trujillo?

If not, I highly recommend it as long as you have professional certifications.

Thai workers making up 13.2% of the manual labour/sweatshop based foreign worker force might be a little more accurate. 40,000 baht/month seems quite a stretch since native English-speaking certified teachers are paid only slightly more than that amount. (non-certified back-packer teachers working for a bushiban may make 40k/month)

Not many Thais have the prerequisite universally recognized education credentials needed in Taiwan to find themselves in professions.

The Taiwanese pride themselves on academic scholarship and being a foreigner sets you at the back of the already queued-up lines of Taiwanese waiting for a break.

Yes, I can see the appeal of escaping the throes of Thailand, using ones bilingualism to find a job that pays better than it would in Thailand. Even though it is in labor-camp environment.

I lived and worked in Taiwan for 20 years.

I spent the first five years as a cowboy English teacher, as did most of us then. If you worked 30 hours a week at about 300NT to 350NT per hour, you were making around 40,000NT, and this was 30 years ago.

If current "qualified" English teachers are making only that amount, it's because that profession is, and always was, viewed as part of the "manual labour/sweatshop based foreign worker force."

It's true..... there isn't much except for certain garments that the Taiwanese won't send off-shore for manufacturing.

Where on earth are you getting this information? Are you serious? Do you really think Taiwan only manufactures "certain garments"? Or do you mean straw baskets and thatched sandals?

There is tons of manufacturing and many industrial parks. Why do you think they hire so many workers from overseas? To simply pave roads?

I see no reason why this OP's situation is not above board; but as I said, do your homework. There are very serious organizations that make valid attempts to protect the rights of foreign workers -- contact them.

[WaiLai]

Have you worked in Taiwan Trujillo?

If not, I highly recommend it as long as you have professional certifications.

Thai workers making up 13.2% of the manual labour/sweatshop based foreign worker force might be a little more accurate. 40,000 baht/month seems quite a stretch since native English-speaking certified teachers are paid only slightly more than that amount. (non-certified back-packer teachers working for a bushiban may make 40k/month)

Not many Thais have the prerequisite universally recognized education credentials needed in Taiwan to find themselves in professions.

The Taiwanese pride themselves on academic scholarship and being a foreigner sets you at the back of the already queued-up lines of Taiwanese waiting for a break.

Yes, I can see the appeal of escaping the throes of Thailand, using ones bilingualism to find a job that pays better than it would in Thailand. Even though it is in labor-camp environment.

I lived and worked in Taiwan for 20 years.

I spent the first five years as a cowboy English teacher, as did most of us then. If you worked 30 hours a week at about 300NT to 350NT per hour, you were making around 40,000NT, and this was 30 years ago.

If current "qualified" English teachers are making only that amount, it's because that profession is, and always was, viewed as part of the "manual labour/sweatshop based foreign worker force."

It's true..... there isn't much except for certain garments that the Taiwanese won't send off-shore for manufacturing.

Where on earth are you getting this information? Are you serious? Do you really think Taiwan only manufactures "certain garments"? Or do you mean straw baskets and thatched sandals?

There is tons of manufacturing and many industrial parks. Why do you think they hire so many workers from overseas? To simply pave roads?

I see no reason why this OP's situation is not above board; but as I said, do your homework. There are very serious organizations that make valid attempts to protect the rights of foreign workers -- contact them.

20 years in Taiwan doing backpacker jobs?

I won't debate what is true but if you would like, I could fill a few pages with web based information sites pertaining to this truth which pretty much would cover your "20 years in Taiwan" stint. Perhaps I could list the streets and districts for you to revisit in Kaohsiung, Tainan, Chishan, Hualien and Taichung in order to redefine what you think you saw and understood.

But why bother?

"You can lead a horse to the trough, but you can't make it drink"

[Puwa]

Agents who are above board-- my sister-in-law owns such a company that sends workers to Taiwan-- don't offer to sneak people into the country on the wrong visa on a vague promise of finding a job when you get there. Don't let him do it.

[Puwa]

I re-read the OP and realize that I wasn't quite addressing the situation he described.

There are a couple of things to keep in mind. For one, the Labor department keeps lists of reputable and disreputable job agencies, so that's a resource.

But the problems of people getting scammed are a bit more complex. The company may be legit, but the agent may not be actually representing the company or may try to skim something extra out of the deal. This is normal in Thailand, on everything from lottery tickets to package tours to.....you get the picture. The only way to know is to deal directly with the main office, or at least verify the agent and terms.

The other consideration is that the agent is not intending to scam, but attempting a shortcut that places a huge risk on the worker. Let's say he gets his passport and flies to Taipei, only to be refused entry. Who takes responsibility? Let's say he enters the country, then turns his passport over to an agent or employer, and is now in the country under false premises and without papers. Or the salary offered is much less than promised, and his passport is in someone's safe. He has few options and little recourse, except to call back home for a rescue. This kind of exploitation-- whether we call it a scam or not-- happens every day, and relies partly on the worker's complicity in doing something illegal like lying on a visa application, to make sure he feels boxed in.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Puwa

[Throatwobbler]

Have you worked in Taiwan Trujillo?

If not, I highly recommend it as long as you have professional certifications.

Thai workers making up 13.2% of the manual labour/sweatshop based foreign worker force might be a little more accurate. 40,000 baht/month seems quite a stretch since native English-speaking certified teachers are paid only slightly more than that amount. (non-certified back-packer teachers working for a bushiban may make 40k/month)

Not many Thais have the prerequisite universally recognized education credentials needed in Taiwan to find themselves in professions.

The Taiwanese pride themselves on academic scholarship and being a foreigner sets you at the back of the already queued-up lines of Taiwanese waiting for a break.

Yes, I can see the appeal of escaping the throes of Thailand, using ones bilingualism to find a job that pays better than it would in Thailand. Even though it is in labor-camp environment.

I lived and worked in Taiwan for 20 years.

I spent the first five years as a cowboy English teacher, as did most of us then. If you worked 30 hours a week at about 300NT to 350NT per hour, you were making around 40,000NT, and this was 30 years ago.

If current "qualified" English teachers are making only that amount, it's because that profession is, and always was, viewed as part of the "manual labour/sweatshop based foreign worker force."

It's true..... there isn't much except for certain garments that the Taiwanese won't send off-shore for manufacturing.

Where on earth are you getting this information? Are you serious? Do you really think Taiwan only manufactures "certain garments"? Or do you mean straw baskets and thatched sandals?

There is tons of manufacturing and many industrial parks. Why do you think they hire so many workers from overseas? To simply pave roads?

I see no reason why this OP's situation is not above board; but as I said, do your homework. There are very serious organizations that make valid attempts to protect the rights of foreign workers -- contact them.

20 years in Taiwan doing backpacker jobs?

I won't debate what is true but if you would like, I could fill a few pages with web based information sites pertaining to this truth which pretty much would cover your "20 years in Taiwan" stint. Perhaps I could list the streets and districts for you to revisit in Kaohsiung, Tainan, Chishan, Hualien and Taichung in order to redefine what you think you saw and understood.

But why bother?

"You can lead a horse to the trough, but you can't make it drink"

"You can lead a horse to the trough, but you can't make it drink"

Many would think the same about you.

[Rama]

Some are legitamite some are a scam. I know Thais that have gone and come back and were happy. Company should be registered with the Thai labor Dept. Usually 3 years work and they pay the ticket back

[Trujillo]

Sigh..... read this again: "I spent the first five years as a cowboy English teacher, as did most of us then."

So the math would lead one to reason that I spent five years as a teacher and 15 as something else, that being journalism -- both print and wire service.

I could fill a few pages with web based information sites pertaining to this truth which pretty much would cover your "20 years in Taiwan" stint. Perhaps I could list the streets and districts for you to revisit in Kaohsiung, Tainan, Chishan, Hualien and Taichung in order to redefine what you think you saw and understood.

God, what has happened to the young people of today? Look at websites to gain the truth over someone who was actually there and lived it (pre-lifting of martial law to the reelection of A-bian)? That's not only mind-boggling but really scary.

"...in order to redefine what you think you saw and understood"? Are you serious? Do I have to kneel in broken glass while I give my confession?

Let's just say that I have forgotten more about Taiwan than you will ever know. And that's not an exaggeration.

Anyway, this isn't about my resume, it's about going to work in Taiwan from Thailand.

Perform the due diligence. Taiwan is not Sierra Leone...it would be easy to find out what the nature of the job in question is and the reliability of the agent.

[WaiLai]

Sigh..... read this again: "I spent the first five years as a cowboy English teacher, as did most of us then."

So the math would lead one to reason that I spent five years as a teacher and 15 as something else, that being journalism -- both print and wire service.

I could fill a few pages with web based information sites pertaining to this truth which pretty much would cover your "20 years in Taiwan" stint. Perhaps I could list the streets and districts for you to revisit in Kaohsiung, Tainan, Chishan, Hualien and Taichung in order to redefine what you think you saw and understood.

God, what has happened to the young people of today? Look at websites to gain the truth over someone who was actually there and lived it (pre-lifting of martial law to the reelection of A-bian)? That's not only mind-boggling but really scary.

"...in order to redefine what you think you saw and understood"? Are you serious? Do I have to kneel in broken glass while I give my confession?

Let's just say that I have forgotten more about Taiwan than you will ever know. And that's not an exaggeration.

Anyway, this isn't about my resume, it's about going to work in Taiwan from Thailand.

Perform the due diligence. Taiwan is not Sierra Leone...it would be easy to find out what the nature of the job in question is and the reliability of the agent.

"it would be easy to find out the nature of the job in question is and the reliability of the agent"? My god man, how inexperienced are you? do you want the name of Joshua Ch.... and the agency he works for to have any degree you wish for photo-shopped and in your name or vice versa - have your credentials photoshopped but a backpackers name put on them so that the agency can make a greater profit on your income?

do what you want to do and good luck - it ain't home over there son - stay in touch - unless you are a JW - don't go blindly into contracts in Taiwan

Edited November 24, 2015 by WaiLai

[Chicog]

Only an idiot would not see the vigorously waving red flag in this statement:

After obtaining a passport he will pay an agent to get a work permit

[Robert24]

Lots of Thais go work in Taiwan and Korea. Obviously not legally. They enter as tourists and then work. All kind of jobs they struggle to find people. From hotel cleaners to farmers. Those agents usually take about 200k to place someone.

[WaiLai]

Only an idiot would not see the vigorously waving red flag in this statement:

After obtaining a passport he will pay an agent to get a work permit

I dare say that many of those in denial would also say that "usery" is not practised in the UAE! e.g. pay me 6000 dirhams for agency fees - give me your passport - you get to work as an apartment cleaner for 3 years - sorry we keep your passport for 3 years - you work the 1st year to pay me my fees and after that you can save your wages

[Chicog]

Only an idiot would not see the vigorously waving red flag in this statement:

After obtaining a passport he will pay an agent to get a work permit

I dare say that many of those in denial would also say that "usery" is not practised in the UAE! e.g. pay me 6000 dirhams for agency fees - give me your passport - you get to work as an apartment cleaner for 3 years - sorry we keep your passport for 3 years - you work the 1st year to pay me my fees and after that you can save your wages

And that's if you get paid at all and don't find that you're actually digging roads 80 hours a week,

Edited November 24, 2015 by Chicog

[Berkshire]

In my experience, any overseas "job" that requires an upfront payment is almost always a scam. In a legit scenario--even if agents were involved--the employer will typically pay the agent, not the employee. By scam, I mean it will not be the same job as advertised, nor for the same pay. And in some cases, much worse.

[Robert24]

No. The way this works is that the agent helps you find a well paid job. Say you can get a job as pig farmer in Korea for 50k per month incl accommodation . You need to pay 200k upfront to the agent to get the job. They will pay for the flight ticket and introduction locally. You travel there as a tourist. If something not work out (i.e. Immigration not believes you are a tourist and sends you back) you get your money back. These agents have local reputation and have placed many people successfully oth wise they can't get people to do this. Also people usually take a loan to pay the agent as usually they don't have the funds.

[Berkshire]

No. The way this works is that the agent helps you find a well paid job. Say you can get a job as pig farmer in Korea for 50k per month incl accommodation . You need to pay 200k upfront to the agent to get the job. They will pay for the flight ticket and introduction locally. You travel there as a tourist. If something not work out (i.e. Immigration not believes you are a tourist and sends you back) you get your money back. These agents have local reputation and have placed many people successfully oth wise they can't get people to do this. Also people usually take a loan to pay the agent as usually they don't have the funds.

Perhaps it's true in some cases. But I would always advise Thais that I know it's a scam if upfront payment is required. I've been asked by many, particularly young females. Logically, if it's truly a great, well-paying job, why wouldn't the locals in that country jump on it? What's more likely is that the job is a low-paying, crap job and ripe for exploitation. Now if the individual has a particular skill-set that is sought after, there are certainly opportunities abroad. But again, it never requires an upfront payment.

[Robert24]

No. The way this works is that the agent helps you find a well paid job. Say you can get a job as pig farmer in Korea for 50k per month incl accommodation . You need to pay 200k upfront to the agent to get the job. They will pay for the flight ticket and introduction locally. You travel there as a tourist. If something not work out (i.e. Immigration not believes you are a tourist and sends you back) you get your money back. These agents have local reputation and have placed many people successfully oth wise they can't get people to do this. Also people usually take a loan to pay the agent as usually they don't have the funds.

Perhaps it's true in some cases. But I would always advise Thais that I know it's a scam if upfront payment is required. I've been asked by many, particularly young females. Logically, if it's truly a great, well-paying job, why wouldn't the locals in that country jump on it? What's more likely is that the job is a low-paying, crap job and ripe for exploitation. Now if the individual has a particular skill-set that is sought after, there are certainly opportunities abroad. But again, it never requires an upfront payment.

of course it might be scam especially if the agent is not known locally where you are based. But in reality Thais won't pay 200k to go abroad to an agent unless they have a good track record with other people from the same communities where they are from. There are literally thousands of Thais working in Korea and Taiwan without proper legal paperwork. They all enter as tourists and then work and overstay. But they don't mind getting blacklisted from returning to Korea, I mean once you have done 3 years in Korea at 50k per month, they have a lot money (from their perspective) when they return to Thailand. And Korea is not as strict as Singapore if you work illegally or overstay.

So the answer to the Op is, check out the track record of the agent. And double check what happens should the country refuse entry to you and send you back. Do you get the money back etc...

[Berkshire]

No. The way this works is that the agent helps you find a well paid job. Say you can get a job as pig farmer in Korea for 50k per month incl accommodation . You need to pay 200k upfront to the agent to get the job. They will pay for the flight ticket and introduction locally. You travel there as a tourist. If something not work out (i.e. Immigration not believes you are a tourist and sends you back) you get your money back. These agents have local reputation and have placed many people successfully oth wise they can't get people to do this. Also people usually take a loan to pay the agent as usually they don't have the funds.

Perhaps it's true in some cases. But I would always advise Thais that I know it's a scam if upfront payment is required. I've been asked by many, particularly young females. Logically, if it's truly a great, well-paying job, why wouldn't the locals in that country jump on it? What's more likely is that the job is a low-paying, crap job and ripe for exploitation. Now if the individual has a particular skill-set that is sought after, there are certainly opportunities abroad. But again, it never requires an upfront payment.

of course it might be scam especially if the agent is not known locally where you are based. But in reality Thais won't pay 200k to go abroad to an agent unless they have a good track record with other people from the same communities where they are from. There are literally thousands of Thais working in Korea and Taiwan without proper legal paperwork. They all enter as tourists and then work and overstay. But they don't mind getting blacklisted from returning to Korea, I mean once you have done 3 years in Korea at 50k per month, they have a lot money (from their perspective) when they return to Thailand. And Korea is not as strict as Singapore if you work illegally or overstay.

So the answer to the Op is, check out the track record of the agent. And double check what happens should the country refuse entry to you and send you back. Do you get the money back etc...

I don't want to go back and forth with you, but therein lies another fallacy--50k per month being a lot of money. That may be a decent month's check for a Thai in Chiang Mai, but I doubt it means the same in Korea. With the cost of living so much higher, a Thai in Seoul or Busan wouldn't be able to save very much.

[Robert24]

No. The way this works is that the agent helps you find a well paid job. Say you can get a job as pig farmer in Korea for 50k per month incl accommodation . You need to pay 200k upfront to the agent to get the job. They will pay for the flight ticket and introduction locally. You travel there as a tourist. If something not work out (i.e. Immigration not believes you are a tourist and sends you back) you get your money back. These agents have local reputation and have placed many people successfully oth wise they can't get people to do this. Also people usually take a loan to pay the agent as usually they don't have the funds.

Perhaps it's true in some cases. But I would always advise Thais that I know it's a scam if upfront payment is required. I've been asked by many, particularly young females. Logically, if it's truly a great, well-paying job, why wouldn't the locals in that country jump on it? What's more likely is that the job is a low-paying, crap job and ripe for exploitation. Now if the individual has a particular skill-set that is sought after, there are certainly opportunities abroad. But again, it never requires an upfront payment.

of course it might be scam especially if the agent is not known locally where you are based. But in reality Thais won't pay 200k to go abroad to an agent unless they have a good track record with other people from the same communities where they are from. There are literally thousands of Thais working in Korea and Taiwan without proper legal paperwork. They all enter as tourists and then work and overstay. But they don't mind getting blacklisted from returning to Korea, I mean once you have done 3 years in Korea at 50k per month, they have a lot money (from their perspective) when they return to Thailand. And Korea is not as strict as Singapore if you work illegally or overstay.

So the answer to the Op is, check out the track record of the agent. And double check what happens should the country refuse entry to you and send you back. Do you get the money back etc...

I don't want to go back and forth with you, but therein lies another fallacy--50k per month being a lot of money. That may be a decent month's check for a Thai in Chiang Mai, but I doubt it means the same in Korea. With the cost of living so much higher, a Thai in Seoul or Busan wouldn't be able to save very much.

they don't live like you and me would live. They hardly spend any money whilst working abroad from what I understand. Accommodation and food is provided for. So you can assume that most of the money earned is saved, i.e. At least 90%.