Yingluck invited on 'personal basis'

[bangrak]

I am no Shin lover, i just detest the junta more.

The letter is quite clear. The last paragraph clearly states the European Parliament..... Then ends with....our collaborators....

The invitation is not personal, it is to meet the parliament to discuss opinions, which is clearly also shown by general throwing a hissy fit.

They certainly put him in his place.

When we read: 'I am no Shin lover' or anything alike at the start of a post, we already know what is automatically going to follow...

Do you have to write that for the false hope of having some credibility? When you'd think so, it'd tell a lot indeed about the Shins &Co....

I was merely correcting your false assertion. But call me shin lover all you want, it still doesnt change the fact the EP has invited Yingy to give her opinion. So they give her opinion more credibility than the general.

Must really stick in his craw, the poor guy is running out of toys to throw out.

Repeating a lie a hunderd times will still not make it true, 'Linky', it's still NOT 'the EP' which has invited 'Yingy'(?)!

[bangrak]

Hahaha, the letter is brilliant. What a slap in the face for the general. Certainly let him know what they think of him.

May I politely advise you and the other members of the Shins' fan club here to have a good look at what a well educated, well informed, and unbiased, Thai journalist going by the name Veera clearly explains in 'the other paper'?

I don't expect it to change your minds, but so you could read it from someone else than from us here, the bad guys who don't fall in the trap of your repetitive propaganda rhetoric...

Veera is a junta-hugger, so what would you expect him to say?

He is just following the party line....

For anyone not to agree in full with you guys' 'opinions', automatically, makes her/him a 'junta-hugger', 'junta lover', 'yellow shirt', 'padocrat', 'fascist'...

Open-mindedness, freedom of opinion, ...for reconciliation, I presume...?

Please give ONE example of that generous and honest(!) person lying, falsely quoting, twisting facts, propagating false info, showing bias! Not considered a friend by Suthep, PDRC, PAD, any dye-hard yellow, ...or green/brown, shirts either...

[EnglishJohn]

The junta is scared of democracy and anything that reminds people of it.

Their paranoia requires them to discredit this invitation. First it was a fake. When it was clearly not a fake, it became "private and personal" and not "official".

The text of the letter is here, and it is clearly official. The junta is in a bind - they let her go and then democracy and Yingluck get in the headlines or they don't let her go and the nature of a military regime is exposed.

About paranoia... It was never said it was clearly a fake, it is addressed to a private person, it is from two individual EMPs on EP paper, it is NOT official from the EP, it is nor EP nor EU issuing an official invite to Yingluck, twist it and turn it as you want, but NO, ...and even 'Thai at Heart' admitted it yesterday!

Admit what? In their capacity as MPs, it's an official invite.

All this hair splitting is pitiful.

You think making a differential between two EU MP's making a personal invite with no agreement or consultation with the rest of the Parliament and an official invite from the EU Parliament requesting Yingluck to go and address them all in an official capacity is splitting hairs ?.

IT'S A WORLD OF DIFFERENCE.

There. Maybe shouting can help it in any circumstance where it needs to penetrate 6 inches of bone protecting a walnut.

Edited November 28, 2015 by EnglishJohn

[bangrak]

The junta is scared of democracy and anything that reminds people of it.

Their paranoia requires them to discredit this invitation. First it was a fake. When it was clearly not a fake, it became "private and personal" and not "official".

The text of the letter is here, and it is clearly official. The junta is in a bind - they let her go and then democracy and Yingluck get in the headlines or they don't let her go and the nature of a military regime is exposed.

About paranoia... It was never said it was clearly a fake, it is addressed to a private person, it is from two individual EMPs on EP paper, it is NOT official from the EP, it is nor EP nor EU issuing an official invite to Yingluck, twist it and turn it as you want, but NO, ...and even 'Thai at Heart' admitted it yesterday!

Admit what? In their capacity as MPs, it's an official invite.

All this hair splitting is pitiful.

'Hair splitting', hmm, 'Thai at Heart'? Please re-read your own #43 and #46...

[Thai at Heart]

The junta is scared of democracy and anything that reminds people of it.

Their paranoia requires them to discredit this invitation. First it was a fake. When it was clearly not a fake, it became "private and personal" and not "official".

The text of the letter is here, and it is clearly official. The junta is in a bind - they let her go and then democracy and Yingluck get in the headlines or they don't let her go and the nature of a military regime is exposed.

About paranoia... It was never said it was clearly a fake, it is addressed to a private person, it is from two individual EMPs on EP paper, it is NOT official from the EP, it is nor EP nor EU issuing an official invite to Yingluck, twist it and turn it as you want, but NO, ...and even 'Thai at Heart' admitted it yesterday!

Admit what? In their capacity as MPs, it's an official invite.

All this hair splitting is pitiful.

'Hair splitting', hmm, 'Thai at Heart'? Please re-read your own #43 and #46...

Well if someone wrote u an invite would you write back that they haven't written it properly and as such u can't attend. Not only that, you would sit around with your mates and suggest that it might be fake because they didn't put their title on it.

It's borderline obsessive...

[MiKT]

Well, what happened? Today, no more: 'EU invite', no more 'EU Parliament invites Yingluck' or other spins, even from 'uncle''s side...

Seemingly forced to by the reality of the facts, the whole 'Shins' fan club' has, altogether(!) and swiftly, taken a sharp inward curve, covering their 'strategic(!) retreat' with a lot of their too usual 'but's and 'if's, twisting and turning at a pace that would make a trained darvish dizzy...

Now, about the facts:

that famous letter:

Clearly not a fake, it is undersigned by two EP members. True, one is the EP President, the other the EP Secretary General and head of the EP foreign affairs commitee, both Germans, from the same political party (CDU), no 'lighweights' inside the EP.

There resides IMO already a first big issue: those two experienced politicians know oh too well the status of their official function inside the EP, though rather 'decorative', gives a not to neglect extra-weight to what they undersign, together the more so, and, now you have it: when they do it in their official function, creating, each at its level, some form of binding commitment for what they represent the EP for.

Well, don't tell me there is no serious reason then for these two versed politicians NOT TO use their title, not in the adress, not in the text, not in the signature! This reduces the existence of this letter to its real 'value': a 'personal' initiative by 2 of the 751 EPMs towards a private person of Thai nationality!

The 'form' of the letter:

Being a EU citizen who had the privilege(?) to learn a few bits about the ways of doing things inside of the Ubu-esk Babel tower the EU institutions have become, from 6 to 25 member States, with tens of thousands of massively overpaid out-of-this-world Mandarins. Let me tell you there are some very 'a-typical', 'unusual' elements in the text, to say the least.

The English language used for the letter is totally below-par. Even when it would have been prepared in German language, there are thousands(!) of top(!)-translators working for the EU, and the English would have been tip-top, not just grammatically correct. Bringing up next questions: about who the persons are who have been 'preparing', all of, or parts of, that 'limping' text, which is the language originally used, and who translated it...

The content of the letter:

Compared to the accustomed, 'cushioned' and tip-toeing, EU-style is quite astonishing. Never have I heard of or seen a letter on any of the EU institutions' headings with such an incisive, square-ish tone, totally un-diplomatic, missing any nuance, ...and very 'one-sided' (I'd say biased), with some big parts (the ones for sure in 'so-so' English) which are as good as a duplication of pure un-edited Shins' PTP/UDD propaganda releases... May I sincerely doubt any, even very private, letter of this kind was ever addressed on any EU heading to that, real, Lady, of a totally different 'caliber', in Burma...

The 'timing' of the letter:

This letter is coming just at a far too 'ideal' time for Yingluck. Very 'odd' in itself too, were it that the 'timing' was set by those two EMPs by themselves, what I cannot be totally sure of...

Also, the time it took for the letter to 'surface', say made public by the Shins' 'PR services'. Nobody would come up with the idea to send any important paper by regular mail from Europe to Thailand: it takes 3 weeks or more, when it ever arrives... 'Normal' EMS would be a basic choice, taking up to 2 weeks. 'Express' would be less than 10 days. Was the EP envelope containing the letter stamped, where, ...and when? We don't know. Or was the letter carried and delivered? We don't know either. There must be a good reason though why it 'sat' for days and weeks before being 'revealed', the Shins' strategists for sure know, we won't...

Also, please note that the EP, one of the three pillars of the EU institutions, next to the Council (political authority) and Commision (executive and administrative authority), initially supposed to be lawmakers, iwas set to become the most important of all, in the basic EU treaties, but the political union never materialised, making from the EP a hugely expensive 'big machine' (having seats in both Stratsburg and Brussels with alternate place of gathering makes it very heavy and intricate too) with as good as no authority at all (all the decisions of importance, are taken by the Council, and, even more, behind it) very 'buzzing' with those expensive 751 EPMs, having each a, richly paid, official following (the general cost per EPM ranging in the millions of Baht ...per month), 'holding court', meeting, discussing, ...making a lot of wind in an attempt to justify their existence...

Last, but not least, there are: the EU 'lobbyists'...!

As a, very specialized, 'trade' on its own, they were a nearly non-existant species for the EU a good twenty years ago, now it must have become like around the US Federal authorities, with hundreds(!) of individuals and companies making a very good living 'lobbying' the EU institutions, ...as a profession attempting to influence important EU individuals favourably towards the needs of their paying clients, or opposite towards their rivals or competitors.

And an utterly hard, vicious and corrupt business it is! Mind you, rarely brown envelopes or donut boxes are used there, rather using luxury goods, 'advantages', 'participations', 'connexions', 'free-rides', even vice...

Making me wonder whether this letter might possibly, at least for some part, have been the work of some 'lobbyist(s)', working for the Shins.

That Thaksin &Co. have been already using the services of 'lobbyists' is no secret, the name of Robert Amsterdam f.i. is quite well known in Thailand...

Wow, thousands of words and still missing the point, its very simple, as the US ambasador has just very clearly said "there is only one type of democracy" and it is not achived by a government that surpresses free speech and uses the courts to supress political opponents. The EU is making a very clear point, they don't like the way YL and the democratically elected government was hounded out of office.

How do you define democracy?

They weren't hounded out of office, they were ejected by their political opponents using free speech and protests of which the government supporting 'red shirts' tried to suppress by attacking these peaceful protests with guns and bombs. Did the government attempt to stop the murdering of innocents? No they didn't!! Did they encourage it by doing nothing? Yes they did.

By the way, there are several versions of democracy, there is the democracy that the US likes whereby those voted in are favourable to THEM, the one where they dislike the winners and are happy to see a legitimately elected democratic government over thrown by force if it is to THEIR benefit (Egypt for example) and there is flawed democracy (Thaksin style) when you buy the vote and then immediately throw the democracy rule book out of the window and start implementing your 'very undemocratic' new rules to suit your own agenda and not that of the people who you deceived and tricked into putting you there in the first place!!

I prefer the benign dictatorship resulting from a bloodless coup to any of these - especially whereby the interests of the people are foremost!!

Excuse me, every body is entitled to their opinion on TV but nobody is entitled to propagate blatant lies. They were overthrown by the army who had supported and planned for several years with Suthep and his gang of yellow shirts to overthrow the government. It was the very unpeaceful yellow shirts who were causing all the violence and the army prevented the police from arresting the protestors, who if you were actually here would know, attacked the police with grenades and guns. So it was not a bloodless coup, even the navy were involved when their so called "seals" were caught shooting at the public to cause unrest.

I think the American Ambassador put it most clearly when he said "democracy has universal, not American principals which include self determination and free speech. Note UNIVERSAL PRINCIPALS of DEMOCRACY. This is what the EU recognise as well and why they don't invite the general to speak to the EU parliament, but do invite YL who most people, both inside and outside Thailand, still consider as the legitimate representative of the Thai people.

The YL government were not perfect but they did not repress the people with no self determination or free speech, or attempt to propagate a totally repressive pseudo democracy. You can't deny this fact. Even Abhasit does not agree with what is happening now.

Quit with the lies, you are getting as bad as EJ, we know the truth and repeating your lies won't change it; and please, please quit with the Thaksin vote buying shit, all parties were buying votes and the Suthep clan were particularly active buying votes in the south, They also paid for all their demonstrators to come and clog up Bangkok until the army could step in with their self made Casus belli.

All your propaganda won't change the facts.

'Blatant lies', hmm, 'MiKT',indeed a lot of such in your prosa...

Not one boy, not one, otherwise you would be trying again to justify your long winded propganda which is simply designed to sidestep the simple fact that the invitation has upset the generals and waste another thousand words splitting hairs about who wrote the letter. Nobody cares, it came from UE bigwigs to make a point and it certainly did.

[Linky]

Quite straightforward.

EP invited yingy, when she tells them the dates she is available they, as stated in the letter, arrange it with their collaborators.

The EP has invited yingy.

Where is the general's invite, even a personal one? Oh sorry, he is too tied up with the PNG superpower. ??

[bangrak]

It seems some can't bring it up to accept clear evidence, maybe because it doesn't exactly fit together with what was initially published in befriended media for this, IMO, Shins' PTP's PR team orchestrated agit-prop campaign. Reconciliation, hmm? Democracy, hmm? IMO, impossible with the Shins and their followers standing in the way... And then 'the other side' buried in its belly-button vanity...! Oh Thailand, is there no valid alternative!?

[bangrak]

Quite straightforward.

EP invited yingy, when she tells them the dates she is available they, as stated in the letter, arrange it with their collaborators.

The EP has invited yingy.

Where is the general's invite, even a personal one? Oh sorry, he is too tied up with the PNG superpower. ??

'The EP has invited yingy': NO! Period.

[bangrak]

Well, what happened? Today, no more: 'EU invite', no more 'EU Parliament invites Yingluck' or other spins, even from 'uncle''s side...

Seemingly forced to by the reality of the facts, the whole 'Shins' fan club' has, altogether(!) and swiftly, taken a sharp inward curve, covering their 'strategic(!) retreat' with a lot of their too usual 'but's and 'if's, twisting and turning at a pace that would make a trained darvish dizzy...

Now, about the facts:

that famous letter:

Clearly not a fake, it is undersigned by two EP members. True, one is the EP President, the other the EP Secretary General and head of the EP foreign affairs commitee, both Germans, from the same political party (CDU), no 'lighweights' inside the EP.

There resides IMO already a first big issue: those two experienced politicians know oh too well the status of their official function inside the EP, though rather 'decorative', gives a not to neglect extra-weight to what they undersign, together the more so, and, now you have it: when they do it in their official function, creating, each at its level, some form of binding commitment for what they represent the EP for.

Well, don't tell me there is no serious reason then for these two versed politicians NOT TO use their title, not in the adress, not in the text, not in the signature! This reduces the existence of this letter to its real 'value': a 'personal' initiative by 2 of the 751 EPMs towards a private person of Thai nationality!

The 'form' of the letter:

Being a EU citizen who had the privilege(?) to learn a few bits about the ways of doing things inside of the Ubu-esk Babel tower the EU institutions have become, from 6 to 25 member States, with tens of thousands of massively overpaid out-of-this-world Mandarins. Let me tell you there are some very 'a-typical', 'unusual' elements in the text, to say the least.

The English language used for the letter is totally below-par. Even when it would have been prepared in German language, there are thousands(!) of top(!)-translators working for the EU, and the English would have been tip-top, not just grammatically correct. Bringing up next questions: about who the persons are who have been 'preparing', all of, or parts of, that 'limping' text, which is the language originally used, and who translated it...

The content of the letter:

Compared to the accustomed, 'cushioned' and tip-toeing, EU-style is quite astonishing. Never have I heard of or seen a letter on any of the EU institutions' headings with such an incisive, square-ish tone, totally un-diplomatic, missing any nuance, ...and very 'one-sided' (I'd say biased), with some big parts (the ones for sure in 'so-so' English) which are as good as a duplication of pure un-edited Shins' PTP/UDD propaganda releases... May I sincerely doubt any, even very private, letter of this kind was ever addressed on any EU heading to that, real, Lady, of a totally different 'caliber', in Burma...

The 'timing' of the letter:

This letter is coming just at a far too 'ideal' time for Yingluck. Very 'odd' in itself too, were it that the 'timing' was set by those two EMPs by themselves, what I cannot be totally sure of...

Also, the time it took for the letter to 'surface', say made public by the Shins' 'PR services'. Nobody would come up with the idea to send any important paper by regular mail from Europe to Thailand: it takes 3 weeks or more, when it ever arrives... 'Normal' EMS would be a basic choice, taking up to 2 weeks. 'Express' would be less than 10 days. Was the EP envelope containing the letter stamped, where, ...and when? We don't know. Or was the letter carried and delivered? We don't know either. There must be a good reason though why it 'sat' for days and weeks before being 'revealed', the Shins' strategists for sure know, we won't...

Also, please note that the EP, one of the three pillars of the EU institutions, next to the Council (political authority) and Commision (executive and administrative authority), initially supposed to be lawmakers, iwas set to become the most important of all, in the basic EU treaties, but the political union never materialised, making from the EP a hugely expensive 'big machine' (having seats in both Stratsburg and Brussels with alternate place of gathering makes it very heavy and intricate too) with as good as no authority at all (all the decisions of importance, are taken by the Council, and, even more, behind it) very 'buzzing' with those expensive 751 EPMs, having each a, richly paid, official following (the general cost per EPM ranging in the millions of Baht ...per month), 'holding court', meeting, discussing, ...making a lot of wind in an attempt to justify their existence...

Last, but not least, there are: the EU 'lobbyists'...!

As a, very specialized, 'trade' on its own, they were a nearly non-existant species for the EU a good twenty years ago, now it must have become like around the US Federal authorities, with hundreds(!) of individuals and companies making a very good living 'lobbying' the EU institutions, ...as a profession attempting to influence important EU individuals favourably towards the needs of their paying clients, or opposite towards their rivals or competitors.

And an utterly hard, vicious and corrupt business it is! Mind you, rarely brown envelopes or donut boxes are used there, rather using luxury goods, 'advantages', 'participations', 'connexions', 'free-rides', even vice...

Making me wonder whether this letter might possibly, at least for some part, have been the work of some 'lobbyist(s)', working for the Shins.

That Thaksin &Co. have been already using the services of 'lobbyists' is no secret, the name of Robert Amsterdam f.i. is quite well known in Thailand...

Wow, thousands of words and still missing the point, its very simple, as the US ambasador has just very clearly said "there is only one type of democracy" and it is not achived by a government that surpresses free speech and uses the courts to supress political opponents. The EU is making a very clear point, they don't like the way YL and the democratically elected government was hounded out of office.

How do you define democracy?

They weren't hounded out of office, they were ejected by their political opponents using free speech and protests of which the government supporting 'red shirts' tried to suppress by attacking these peaceful protests with guns and bombs. Did the government attempt to stop the murdering of innocents? No they didn't!! Did they encourage it by doing nothing? Yes they did.

By the way, there are several versions of democracy, there is the democracy that the US likes whereby those voted in are favourable to THEM, the one where they dislike the winners and are happy to see a legitimately elected democratic government over thrown by force if it is to THEIR benefit (Egypt for example) and there is flawed democracy (Thaksin style) when you buy the vote and then immediately throw the democracy rule book out of the window and start implementing your 'very undemocratic' new rules to suit your own agenda and not that of the people who you deceived and tricked into putting you there in the first place!!

I prefer the benign dictatorship resulting from a bloodless coup to any of these - especially whereby the interests of the people are foremost!!

Excuse me, every body is entitled to their opinion on TV but nobody is entitled to propagate blatant lies. They were overthrown by the army who had supported and planned for several years with Suthep and his gang of yellow shirts to overthrow the government. It was the very unpeaceful yellow shirts who were causing all the violence and the army prevented the police from arresting the protestors, who if you were actually here would know, attacked the police with grenades and guns. So it was not a bloodless coup, even the navy were involved when their so called "seals" were caught shooting at the public to cause unrest.

I think the American Ambassador put it most clearly when he said "democracy has universal, not American principals which include self determination and free speech. Note UNIVERSAL PRINCIPALS of DEMOCRACY. This is what the EU recognise as well and why they don't invite the general to speak to the EU parliament, but do invite YL who most people, both inside and outside Thailand, still consider as the legitimate representative of the Thai people.

The YL government were not perfect but they did not repress the people with no self determination or free speech, or attempt to propagate a totally repressive pseudo democracy. You can't deny this fact. Even Abhasit does not agree with what is happening now.

Quit with the lies, you are getting as bad as EJ, we know the truth and repeating your lies won't change it; and please, please quit with the Thaksin vote buying shit, all parties were buying votes and the Suthep clan were particularly active buying votes in the south, They also paid for all their demonstrators to come and clog up Bangkok until the army could step in with their self made Casus belli.

All your propaganda won't change the facts.

'Blatant lies', hmm, 'MiKT',indeed a lot of such in your prosa...

Not one boy, not one, otherwise you would be trying again to justify your long winded propganda which is simply designed to sidestep the simple fact that the invitation has upset the generals and waste another thousand words splitting hairs about who wrote the letter. Nobody cares, it came from UE bigwigs to make a point and it certainly did.

When you would know how much I care about 'the generals'... I like them as much as some horribly bitter medicine burning my stomach I'd have to take, ...to cure my body from a bad infection I'd need to get rid of... No more, no less.

[FritsSikkink]

why got some groups nicknames like buffalo

[Linky]

Quite straightforward.

EP invited yingy, when she tells them the dates she is available they, as stated in the letter, arrange it with their collaborators.

The EP has invited yingy.

Where is the general's invite, even a personal one? Oh sorry, he is too tied up with the PNG superpower. ??

'The EP has invited yingy': NO! Period.

Up to you.

Deny it all you want but the letter is clear. She is invited to discuss her opinion to the EP.

Live with it.

[MiKT]

Well, what happened? Today, no more: 'EU invite', no more 'EU Parliament invites Yingluck' or other spins, even from 'uncle''s side...
Seemingly forced to by the reality of the facts, the whole 'Shins' fan club' has, altogether(!) and swiftly, taken a sharp inward curve, covering their 'strategic(!) retreat' with a lot of their too usual 'but's and 'if's, twisting and turning at a pace that would make a trained darvish dizzy...

Now, about the facts:
that famous letter:
Clearly not a fake, it is undersigned by two EP members. True, one is the EP President, the other the EP Secretary General and head of the EP foreign affairs commitee, both Germans, from the same political party (CDU), no 'lighweights' inside the EP.
There resides IMO already a first big issue: those two experienced politicians know oh too well the status of their official function inside the EP, though rather 'decorative', gives a not to neglect extra-weight to what they undersign, together the more so, and, now you have it: when they do it in their official function, creating, each at its level, some form of binding commitment for what they represent the EP for.
Well, don't tell me there is no serious reason then for these two versed politicians NOT TO use their title, not in the adress, not in the text, not in the signature! This reduces the existence of this letter to its real 'value': a 'personal' initiative by 2 of the 751 EPMs towards a private person of Thai nationality!
The 'form' of the letter:
Being a EU citizen who had the privilege(?) to learn a few bits about the ways of doing things inside of the Ubu-esk Babel tower the EU institutions have become, from 6 to 25 member States, with tens of thousands of massively overpaid out-of-this-world Mandarins. Let me tell you there are some very 'a-typical', 'unusual' elements in the text, to say the least.
The English language used for the letter is totally below-par. Even when it would have been prepared in German language, there are thousands(!) of top(!)-translators working for the EU, and the English would have been tip-top, not just grammatically correct. Bringing up next questions: about who the persons are who have been 'preparing', all of, or parts of, that 'limping' text, which is the language originally used, and who translated it...
The content of the letter:
Compared to the accustomed, 'cushioned' and tip-toeing, EU-style is quite astonishing. Never have I heard of or seen a letter on any of the EU institutions' headings with such an incisive, square-ish tone, totally un-diplomatic, missing any nuance, ...and very 'one-sided' (I'd say biased), with some big parts (the ones for sure in 'so-so' English) which are as good as a duplication of pure un-edited Shins' PTP/UDD propaganda releases... May I sincerely doubt any, even very private, letter of this kind was ever addressed on any EU heading to that, real, Lady, of a totally different 'caliber', in Burma...
The 'timing' of the letter:
This letter is coming just at a far too 'ideal' time for Yingluck. Very 'odd' in itself too, were it that the 'timing' was set by those two EMPs by themselves, what I cannot be totally sure of...
Also, the time it took for the letter to 'surface', say made public by the Shins' 'PR services'. Nobody would come up with the idea to send any important paper by regular mail from Europe to Thailand: it takes 3 weeks or more, when it ever arrives... 'Normal' EMS would be a basic choice, taking up to 2 weeks. 'Express' would be less than 10 days. Was the EP envelope containing the letter stamped, where, ...and when? We don't know. Or was the letter carried and delivered? We don't know either. There must be a good reason though why it 'sat' for days and weeks before being 'revealed', the Shins' strategists for sure know, we won't...

Also, please note that the EP, one of the three pillars of the EU institutions, next to the Council (political authority) and Commision (executive and administrative authority), initially supposed to be lawmakers, iwas set to become the most important of all, in the basic EU treaties, but the political union never materialised, making from the EP a hugely expensive 'big machine' (having seats in both Stratsburg and Brussels with alternate place of gathering makes it very heavy and intricate too) with as good as no authority at all (all the decisions of importance, are taken by the Council, and, even more, behind it) very 'buzzing' with those expensive 751 EPMs, having each a, richly paid, official following (the general cost per EPM ranging in the millions of Baht ...per month), 'holding court', meeting, discussing, ...making a lot of wind in an attempt to justify their existence...

Last, but not least, there are: the EU 'lobbyists'...!
As a, very specialized, 'trade' on its own, they were a nearly non-existant species for the EU a good twenty years ago, now it must have become like around the US Federal authorities, with hundreds(!) of individuals and companies making a very good living 'lobbying' the EU institutions, ...as a profession attempting to influence important EU individuals favourably towards the needs of their paying clients, or opposite towards their rivals or competitors.
And an utterly hard, vicious and corrupt business it is! Mind you, rarely brown envelopes or donut boxes are used there, rather using luxury goods, 'advantages', 'participations', 'connexions', 'free-rides', even vice...
Making me wonder whether this letter might possibly, at least for some part, have been the work of some 'lobbyist(s)', working for the Shins.
That Thaksin &Co. have been already using the services of 'lobbyists' is no secret, the name of Robert Amsterdam f.i. is quite well known in Thailand...

Wow, thousands of words and still missing the point, its very simple, as the US ambasador has just very clearly said "there is only one type of democracy" and it is not achived by a government that surpresses free speech and uses the courts to supress political opponents. The EU is making a very clear point, they don't like the way YL and the democratically elected government was hounded out of office.

How do you define democracy?

They weren't hounded out of office, they were ejected by their political opponents using free speech and protests of which the government supporting 'red shirts' tried to suppress by attacking these peaceful protests with guns and bombs. Did the government attempt to stop the murdering of innocents? No they didn't!! Did they encourage it by doing nothing? Yes they did.
By the way, there are several versions of democracy, there is the democracy that the US likes whereby those voted in are favourable to THEM, the one where they dislike the winners and are happy to see a legitimately elected democratic government over thrown by force if it is to THEIR benefit (Egypt for example) and there is flawed democracy (Thaksin style) when you buy the vote and then immediately throw the democracy rule book out of the window and start implementing your 'very undemocratic' new rules to suit your own agenda and not that of the people who you deceived and tricked into putting you there in the first place!!
I prefer the benign dictatorship resulting from a bloodless coup to any of these - especially whereby the interests of the people are foremost!!

Excuse me, every body is entitled to their opinion on TV but nobody is entitled to propagate blatant lies. They were overthrown by the army who had supported and planned for several years with Suthep and his gang of yellow shirts to overthrow the government. It was the very unpeaceful yellow shirts who were causing all the violence and the army prevented the police from arresting the protestors, who if you were actually here would know, attacked the police with grenades and guns. So it was not a bloodless coup, even the navy were involved when their so called "seals" were caught shooting at the public to cause unrest.

I think the American Ambassador put it most clearly when he said "democracy has universal, not American principals which include self determination and free speech. Note UNIVERSAL PRINCIPALS of DEMOCRACY. This is what the EU recognise as well and why they don't invite the general to speak to the EU parliament, but do invite YL who most people, both inside and outside Thailand, still consider as the legitimate representative of the Thai people.

The YL government were not perfect but they did not repress the people with no self determination or free speech, or attempt to propagate a totally repressive pseudo democracy. You can't deny this fact. Even Abhasit does not agree with what is happening now.

Quit with the lies, you are getting as bad as EJ, we know the truth and repeating your lies won't change it; and please, please quit with the Thaksin vote buying shit, all parties were buying votes and the Suthep clan were particularly active buying votes in the south, They also paid for all their demonstrators to come and clog up Bangkok until the army could step in with their self made Casus belli.

All your propaganda won't change the facts.

'Blatant lies', hmm, 'MiKT',indeed a lot of such in your prosa...

Not one boy, not one, otherwise you would be trying again to justify your long winded propganda which is simply designed to sidestep the simple fact that the invitation has upset the generals and waste another thousand words splitting hairs about who wrote the letter. Nobody cares, it came from UE bigwigs to make a point and it certainly did.

When you would know how much I care about 'the generals'... I like them as much as some horribly bitter medicine burning my stomach I'd have to take, ...to cure my body from a bad infection I'd need to get rid of... No more, no less.

In the UK we have a government I dont particularly like and now we have an oposition led by somebody I totally despise. But if the oposition win the next election I would not support a coup by the army. I am sure you have a comparable situation in your home country, all true democracies are similar in that respect. I bet you did not support the jaunta in Mayanma when they took over the country and I doubt if you support the Chinese government when they repress Tibet or other minorities and restrict the press and free speech. So I find it hard to understand how any farang who really cares about all the Thai people and not just the rich can support an army coup over a government elected by the majority of Thais. Would you support an army takeover if idiot Donald won in the US? No. Millions will hate him for sure if he wins but no coups will take place. The coup mongers are the worse kind of Bloody Hypocrites with their corruption and nepotism. Infection....bull crap. I hope they all have burning stomachs to go with their thick heads.

[cobbler]

How to bog your country in billions of $$$ debt to imf while filling your pockets,and stay out of jail. By Y.S. ITS TRUE Its a book im serious

[MiKT]

How to bog your country in billions of $$$ debt to imf while filling your pockets,and stay out of jail. By Y.S. ITS TRUE Its a book im serious

cobblers

[bangrak]

Well, what happened? Today, no more: 'EU invite', no more 'EU Parliament invites Yingluck' or other spins, even from 'uncle''s side...

Seemingly forced to by the reality of the facts, the whole 'Shins' fan club' has, altogether(!) and swiftly, taken a sharp inward curve, covering their 'strategic(!) retreat' with a lot of their too usual 'but's and 'if's, twisting and turning at a pace that would make a trained darvish dizzy...

Now, about the facts:

that famous letter:

Clearly not a fake, it is undersigned by two EP members. True, one is the EP President, the other the EP Secretary General and head of the EP foreign affairs commitee, both Germans, from the same political party (CDU), no 'lighweights' inside the EP.

There resides IMO already a first big issue: those two experienced politicians know oh too well the status of their official function inside the EP, though rather 'decorative', gives a not to neglect extra-weight to what they undersign, together the more so, and, now you have it: when they do it in their official function, creating, each at its level, some form of binding commitment for what they represent the EP for.

Well, don't tell me there is no serious reason then for these two versed politicians NOT TO use their title, not in the adress, not in the text, not in the signature! This reduces the existence of this letter to its real 'value': a 'personal' initiative by 2 of the 751 EPMs towards a private person of Thai nationality!

The 'form' of the letter:

Being a EU citizen who had the privilege(?) to learn a few bits about the ways of doing things inside of the Ubu-esk Babel tower the EU institutions have become, from 6 to 25 member States, with tens of thousands of massively overpaid out-of-this-world Mandarins. Let me tell you there are some very 'a-typical', 'unusual' elements in the text, to say the least.

The English language used for the letter is totally below-par. Even when it would have been prepared in German language, there are thousands(!) of top(!)-translators working for the EU, and the English would have been tip-top, not just grammatically correct. Bringing up next questions: about who the persons are who have been 'preparing', all of, or parts of, that 'limping' text, which is the language originally used, and who translated it...

The content of the letter:

Compared to the accustomed, 'cushioned' and tip-toeing, EU-style is quite astonishing. Never have I heard of or seen a letter on any of the EU institutions' headings with such an incisive, square-ish tone, totally un-diplomatic, missing any nuance, ...and very 'one-sided' (I'd say biased), with some big parts (the ones for sure in 'so-so' English) which are as good as a duplication of pure un-edited Shins' PTP/UDD propaganda releases... May I sincerely doubt any, even very private, letter of this kind was ever addressed on any EU heading to that, real, Lady, of a totally different 'caliber', in Burma...

The 'timing' of the letter:

This letter is coming just at a far too 'ideal' time for Yingluck. Very 'odd' in itself too, were it that the 'timing' was set by those two EMPs by themselves, what I cannot be totally sure of...

Also, the time it took for the letter to 'surface', say made public by the Shins' 'PR services'. Nobody would come up with the idea to send any important paper by regular mail from Europe to Thailand: it takes 3 weeks or more, when it ever arrives... 'Normal' EMS would be a basic choice, taking up to 2 weeks. 'Express' would be less than 10 days. Was the EP envelope containing the letter stamped, where, ...and when? We don't know. Or was the letter carried and delivered? We don't know either. There must be a good reason though why it 'sat' for days and weeks before being 'revealed', the Shins' strategists for sure know, we won't...

Also, please note that the EP, one of the three pillars of the EU institutions, next to the Council (political authority) and Commision (executive and administrative authority), initially supposed to be lawmakers, iwas set to become the most important of all, in the basic EU treaties, but the political union never materialised, making from the EP a hugely expensive 'big machine' (having seats in both Stratsburg and Brussels with alternate place of gathering makes it very heavy and intricate too) with as good as no authority at all (all the decisions of importance, are taken by the Council, and, even more, behind it) very 'buzzing' with those expensive 751 EPMs, having each a, richly paid, official following (the general cost per EPM ranging in the millions of Baht ...per month), 'holding court', meeting, discussing, ...making a lot of wind in an attempt to justify their existence...

Last, but not least, there are: the EU 'lobbyists'...!

As a, very specialized, 'trade' on its own, they were a nearly non-existant species for the EU a good twenty years ago, now it must have become like around the US Federal authorities, with hundreds(!) of individuals and companies making a very good living 'lobbying' the EU institutions, ...as a profession attempting to influence important EU individuals favourably towards the needs of their paying clients, or opposite towards their rivals or competitors.

And an utterly hard, vicious and corrupt business it is! Mind you, rarely brown envelopes or donut boxes are used there, rather using luxury goods, 'advantages', 'participations', 'connexions', 'free-rides', even vice...

Making me wonder whether this letter might possibly, at least for some part, have been the work of some 'lobbyist(s)', working for the Shins.

That Thaksin &Co. have been already using the services of 'lobbyists' is no secret, the name of Robert Amsterdam f.i. is quite well known in Thailand...

Wow, thousands of words and still missing the point, its very simple, as the US ambasador has just very clearly said "there is only one type of democracy" and it is not achived by a government that surpresses free speech and uses the courts to supress political opponents. The EU is making a very clear point, they don't like the way YL and the democratically elected government was hounded out of office.

How do you define democracy?

They weren't hounded out of office, they were ejected by their political opponents using free speech and protests of which the government supporting 'red shirts' tried to suppress by attacking these peaceful protests with guns and bombs. Did the government attempt to stop the murdering of innocents? No they didn't!! Did they encourage it by doing nothing? Yes they did.

By the way, there are several versions of democracy, there is the democracy that the US likes whereby those voted in are favourable to THEM, the one where they dislike the winners and are happy to see a legitimately elected democratic government over thrown by force if it is to THEIR benefit (Egypt for example) and there is flawed democracy (Thaksin style) when you buy the vote and then immediately throw the democracy rule book out of the window and start implementing your 'very undemocratic' new rules to suit your own agenda and not that of the people who you deceived and tricked into putting you there in the first place!!

I prefer the benign dictatorship resulting from a bloodless coup to any of these - especially whereby the interests of the people are foremost!!

Excuse me, every body is entitled to their opinion on TV but nobody is entitled to propagate blatant lies. They were overthrown by the army who had supported and planned for several years with Suthep and his gang of yellow shirts to overthrow the government. It was the very unpeaceful yellow shirts who were causing all the violence and the army prevented the police from arresting the protestors, who if you were actually here would know, attacked the police with grenades and guns. So it was not a bloodless coup, even the navy were involved when their so called "seals" were caught shooting at the public to cause unrest.

I think the American Ambassador put it most clearly when he said "democracy has universal, not American principals which include self determination and free speech. Note UNIVERSAL PRINCIPALS of DEMOCRACY. This is what the EU recognise as well and why they don't invite the general to speak to the EU parliament, but do invite YL who most people, both inside and outside Thailand, still consider as the legitimate representative of the Thai people.

The YL government were not perfect but they did not repress the people with no self determination or free speech, or attempt to propagate a totally repressive pseudo democracy. You can't deny this fact. Even Abhasit does not agree with what is happening now.

Quit with the lies, you are getting as bad as EJ, we know the truth and repeating your lies won't change it; and please, please quit with the Thaksin vote buying shit, all parties were buying votes and the Suthep clan were particularly active buying votes in the south, They also paid for all their demonstrators to come and clog up Bangkok until the army could step in with their self made Casus belli.

All your propaganda won't change the facts.

'Blatant lies', hmm, 'MiKT',indeed a lot of such in your prosa...

Not one boy, not one, otherwise you would be trying again to justify your long winded propganda which is simply designed to sidestep the simple fact that the invitation has upset the generals and waste another thousand words splitting hairs about who wrote the letter. Nobody cares, it came from UE bigwigs to make a point and it certainly did.

When you would know how much I care about 'the generals'... I like them as much as some horribly bitter medicine burning my stomach I'd have to take, ...to cure my body from a bad infection I'd need to get rid of... No more, no less.

In the UK we have a government I dont particularly like and now we have an oposition led by somebody I totally despise. But if the oposition win the next election I would not support a coup by the army. I am sure you have a comparable situation in your home country, all true democracies are similar in that respect. I bet you did not support the jaunta in Mayanma when they took over the country and I doubt if you support the Chinese government when they repress Tibet or other minorities and restrict the press and free speech. So I find it hard to understand how any farang who really cares about all the Thai people and not just the rich can support an army coup over a government elected by the majority of Thais. Would you support an army takeover if idiot Donald won in the US? No. Millions will hate him for sure if he wins but no coups will take place. The coup mongers are the worse kind of Bloody Hypocrites with their corruption and nepotism. Infection....bull crap. I hope they all have burning stomachs to go with their thick heads.

May I remind you this is about a bogus 'official EU invite' for a clone, a puppet, as her brother so kindly (and accurately) called her in public.

[tbthailand]

Not one boy, not one, otherwise you would be trying again to justify your long winded propganda which is simply designed to sidestep the simple fact that the invitation has upset the generals and waste another thousand words splitting hairs about who wrote the letter. Nobody cares, it came from UE bigwigs to make a point and it certainly did.

When you would know how much I care about 'the generals'... I like them as much as some horribly bitter medicine burning my stomach I'd have to take, ...to cure my body from a bad infection I'd need to get rid of... No more, no less.

In the UK we have a government I dont particularly like and now we have an oposition led by somebody I totally despise. But if the oposition win the next election I would not support a coup by the army. I am sure you have a comparable situation in your home country, all true democracies are similar in that respect. I bet you did not support the jaunta in Mayanma when they took over the country and I doubt if you support the Chinese government when they repress Tibet or other minorities and restrict the press and free speech. So I find it hard to understand how any farang who really cares about all the Thai people and not just the rich can support an army coup over a government elected by the majority of Thais. Would you support an army takeover if idiot Donald won in the US? No. Millions will hate him for sure if he wins but no coups will take place. The coup mongers are the worse kind of Bloody Hypocrites with their corruption and nepotism. Infection....bull crap. I hope they all have burning stomachs to go with their thick heads.

May I remind you this is about a bogus 'official EU invite' for a clone, a puppet, as her brother so kindly (and accurately) called her in public.

"bogus" ...

"total denial"

[bangrak]

'The truth'!

Straight from the horse's mouth! I quote out of the press release from Yingluck's team of lawyers as in 'the other paper' today about the request made by it to the Supreme Court: '...to attend the meeting in Europe with two members of the European Parliament (MEPs) who invited her...'!

Well, all dedicated members of the Shins' fan club here, now you have it, 'in ya face': NO 'EU (or EP) invite' as in the PTP/UDD communication and in the Shins owned or controled media, wrongly relayed by 'friendly' reporters all over the place...

So, it was a hoax, after all, willfull, inciting, mis-information (and IMO part of an ongoing 'agit-prop' campaign orchestrated by the Shins' PTP/UDD)!

How will you deny/twist/divert that one now...?

[bangrak]

Obviously all members of the Shins' fan club are having a day off... LOL

Edited December 3, 2015 by bangrak

[cobbler]

Obviously all members of the Shins' fan club are having a day off... LOL

the redshins BWHHHHHHHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA

[cobbler]

I know how, it goes like this. Oh i was miss imformed IGLEOW. Sob cry smile. Liar liar panties on fire. Oops dont say fire that reminds them of all the rubber i oops somebody burnt. Bummmer 555