No violation, no warning, a premediatated provocation growls Moscow

[webfact]

No violation, no warning, a premediatated provocation growls Moscow
By Robert Hackwill



"We have no intention to go to war with Turkey"

MOSCOW: -- In Moscow Russian President Vladimir Putin slammed the Turkish government for being a supporter of ISIL terrorism, and of having imposed a programme of Islamisation on Turkey for years. He promised the consequences for the incident would be serious for Turkey.

Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov had his radar data and his case to make, denying any airspace violation.

“We have serious doubts that it was an unpremeditated act. It looks very much like a provocation. We have no intention to go to war with Turkey. Our attitude towards
the Turkish people hasn’t changed. We have questions about the actions of the current Turkish leadership,” he said.

In Istanbul President Recep Tayyip Erodgan was addressing business leaders and hitting the diplomatic soft pedal.

“Turkey does not support tensions, crisis or hostility. Turkey is always on the side of peace, diplomacy, and dialogue. We will continue to maintain this attitude,” he said.

One of Russia’s first acts after its first official losses in the Syrian air campaign was announcing the deployment of its advanced S-400 anti-aircraft missile system. It will be based at Hmeimim airbase, one of three Russia operates near Latakia in Syria.

-- (c) Copyright Euronews 2015-11-26

[Somtamnication]

And so it begins.............

[shirtless]

Turkey what was the point, or the reasoning behind this , you have everything to lose and nothing to gain, I doubt NATO will help, your stupid country.

[BuaBS]

Putins hands are tied , too many Russians in Turkey , to take revenge.

Otherwise a tactical nuke on a turkisch airforce base would send a powerful message.

[Credo]

I think that most countries would be extremely nervous if they knew that planes with bombs were flying into their airspace.

It's not like they shot down a civilian aircraft.

It may not have been the wisest move, but there is military action going on in the area.

[craigt3365]

Turkey what was the point, or the reasoning behind this , you have everything to lose and nothing to gain, I doubt NATO will help, your stupid country.

The analysis from several other countries says the plane crossed into Turkish airspace, though briefly. Russia has been repeatedly warned about this, and admitted to doing it not long ago also. Seems the plane was hit while in Syrian territory. But it did cross into Turkey. Which is a violation of international laws. Russia has to learn to play by the rules. And yes, NATO is backing Turkey. Which is far from a stupid country.

[craigt3365]

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/11/turkey-recording-warning-downed-russian-jet-151125182534243.html

Turkey releases recording of 'warning' to downed jet Military publishes audio where voice is heard saying, "You are approaching Turkish airspace, change your heading".

[Confuscious]

Is this the same Turkey that ignited WW 1?
Watch the Russian answer.
You simply don't mess with Russia unless you are suicidal.

[orosee]

Is this the same Turkey that ignited WW 1?

Watch the Russian answer.

You simply don't mess with Russia unless you are suicidal.

Just google "did Turkey ignite WW1?". Or take "no" for an answer. Hint: Both WW1 and WW2 were ignited by persons born in the same country.

While you're at it, do these searches, too:

"Did Turkey invade Poland in 1939?"

"Turkey Atomic Bomb Japan 1945"

"Kennedy assassination Turkish angle"

"Turkish space program moon landing hoax"

"MH370 wreckage Bosporus"

[oneday]

In Moscow Russian President Vladimir Putin slammed the Turkish government for being a supporter of ISIL terrorism

Oh, how ironic, when Putin is bombing the US backed Syrian rebels against Assad much more than ISIL. And you were warned Putin. I guess your memory sucks.

Edited November 26, 2015 by oneday

[derator01]

A post violating fair use rules has been removed from view.

[torpedo1970]

Som Nam Na Putin

You have been warned about this a couple of weeks ago....

Som Nam Na Maak Maak

[Lokie]

Must say, the video footage of both the plane coming down in flames and the Turkmen launching a Milan type missile on one of the rescue helicopters and destroying that on the ground was really top quality almost 100% professional standards which then leaves the question of whether this was a planned action from the start... was mentioned by the Russians just after the incident... Mmm strange ehh??

Turkey ? have stood by and probably gained from IS oil commerce, the question should be: What are you playing at? Again Russia looks in a lot better light than some countries at the moment... Putin has Co-oners and no doubt

[retarius]

In Moscow Russian President Vladimir Putin slammed the Turkish government for being a supporter of ISIL terrorism

Oh, how ironic, when Putin is bombing the US backed Syrian rebels against Assad much more than ISIL. And you were warned Putin. I guess your memory sucks.

Actually the Russians have done far more against IS in two months that the US has done in 18. You should look at the Wiki war map of Syria and see how IS in Aleppo have been driven out. The fact that Putin also bombs FSA in Latakia and Homs is beside the point. Syria accuses them of terrorism, and Russia who have agreed to help Assad having been invited into the Syrian civil war is perfectly entitled to support his host against those deemed terrorists by Assad. But in any case they are on the run.

[rijit]

Apparently according to the bbc after recent changes provoked by incidents turkey veiw any plane emerging from Syrian airspace as ' hostile '

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[LuckyNo4]

Must say, the video footage of both the plane coming down in flames and the Turkmen launching a Milan type missile on one of the rescue helicopters and destroying that on the ground was really top quality almost 100% professional standards which then leaves the question of whether this was a planned action from the start... was mentioned by the Russians just after the incident... Mmm strange ehh??

Turkey ? have stood by and probably gained from IS oil commerce, the question should be: What are you playing at? Again Russia looks in a lot better light than some countries at the moment... Putin has Co-oners and no doubt

Pisses me right off.... Very strict Money laundering controls are being imposed on normal people worldwide by banks claiming a fight against terrorist financing, making normal business dealing and the movement of funds difficult and frustrating for the average Joe, yet we have state officials involved in direct dealings with financing terrorists (ISIS) through the million dollar oil deals being done every day. There <deleted> all in on it. <deleted>! How are they moving tens of millions of dollars a day through which banks? Where the oversight on that?

[craigt3365]

In Moscow Russian President Vladimir Putin slammed the Turkish government for being a supporter of ISIL terrorism

Oh, how ironic, when Putin is bombing the US backed Syrian rebels against Assad much more than ISIL. And you were warned Putin. I guess your memory sucks.

Actually the Russians have done far more against IS in two months that the US has done in 18. You should look at the Wiki war map of Syria and see how IS in Aleppo have been driven out. The fact that Putin also bombs FSA in Latakia and Homs is beside the point. Syria accuses them of terrorism, and Russia who have agreed to help Assad having been invited into the Syrian civil war is perfectly entitled to support his host against those deemed terrorists by Assad. But in any case they are on the run.

If you count number of civilian casualties, then yes, the Russians have done way more in the past 2 months than the coalition has done in 2 years. Congrats Russia!

[Lukecan]

It is so funny, people are bashing Turkey here because its a muslim country.

Fact: Russia violated Turkish airspace, Turkish Airforce released the heatmaps.

Fact: Russian plane was warned repeatedly, this was confirmed by the coalition pilots which were also doing excursions in the area.

NATO stated that Turkeys version of the story confirms the evidence they have in hand.

NATO and US will never allow Russia to bully Turkey, if Turkey gets destabilized you're going to be looking at possibly 10mm+ refugees in Europe.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.

This topic is not about how many times Turkey has invaded Greek air space. Continuing to bring it up is going to result in a warning and a suspension.

[Nerone]

Must say, the video footage of both the plane coming down in flames and the Turkmen launching a Milan type missile on one of the rescue helicopters and destroying that on the ground was really top quality almost 100% professional standards which then leaves the question of whether this was a planned action from the start... was mentioned by the Russians just after the incident... Mmm strange ehh??

Turkey ? have stood by and probably gained from IS oil commerce, the question should be: What are you playing at? Again Russia looks in a lot better light than some countries at the moment... Putin has Co-oners and no doubt

Pisses me right off.... Very strict Money laundering controls are being imposed on normal people worldwide by banks claiming a fight against terrorist financing, making normal business dealing and the movement of funds difficult and frustrating for the average Joe, yet we have state officials involved in direct dealings with financing terrorists (ISIS) through the million dollar oil deals being done every day. There <deleted> all in on it. <deleted>! How are they moving tens of millions of dollars a day through which banks? Where the oversight on that?

Best comment ever

[Credo]

I can only compare this to someone who is armed coming into my house, just a little ways. I should just ignore them or shoo them away?

[Confuscious]

Is this the same Turkey that ignited WW 1?

Watch the Russian answer.

You simply don't mess with Russia unless you are suicidal.

Just google "did Turkey ignite WW1?". Or take "no" for an answer. Hint: Both WW1 and WW2 were ignited by persons born in the same country.

While you're at it, do these searches, too:

"Did Turkey invade Poland in 1939?"

"Turkey Atomic Bomb Japan 1945"

"Kennedy assassination Turkish angle"

"Turkish space program moon landing hoax"

"MH370 wreckage Bosporus"

Sorry to spoil your party, but the The first world war began in August 1914. It was directly triggered by the assassination of the Austrian archduke, Franz Ferdinand and his wife, on 28th June 1914 by Bosnian revolutionary, Gavrilo Princip.

Bosnian Crisis

In 1908, Austria-Hungary took over the former Turkish province of Bosnia. This angered Serbians who felt the province should be theirs. Serbia threatened Austria-Hungary with war, Russia, allied to Serbia, mobilized its forces. Germany, allied to Austria-Hungary mobilised its forces and prepared to threaten Russia. War was avoided when Russia backed down. There was, however, war in the Balkans between 1911 and 1912 when the Balkan states drove Turkey out of the area. The states then fought each other over which area should belong to which state. Austria-Hungary then intervened and forced Serbia to give up some of its acquisitions. Tension between Serbia and Austria-Hungary was high.

[JHolmesJr]

I can only compare this to someone who is armed coming into my house, just a little ways. I should just ignore them or shoo them away?

Just ignore them if they're flying at supersonic speed.

[orosee]

Is this the same Turkey that ignited WW 1?

Watch the Russian answer.

You simply don't mess with Russia unless you are suicidal.

Just google "did Turkey ignite WW1?". Or take "no" for an answer. Hint: Both WW1 and WW2 were ignited by persons born in the same country.

While you're at it, do these searches, too:

"Did Turkey invade Poland in 1939?"

"Turkey Atomic Bomb Japan 1945"

"Kennedy assassination Turkish angle"

"Turkish space program moon landing hoax"

"MH370 wreckage Bosporus"

Sorry to spoil your party, but the The first world war began in August 1914. It was directly triggered by the assassination of the Austrian archduke, Franz Ferdinand and his wife, on 28th June 1914 by Bosnian revolutionary, Gavrilo Princip.

Bosnian Crisis

In 1908, Austria-Hungary took over the former Turkish province of Bosnia. This angered Serbians who felt the province should be theirs. Serbia threatened Austria-Hungary with war, Russia, allied to Serbia, mobilized its forces. Germany, allied to Austria-Hungary mobilised its forces and prepared to threaten Russia. War was avoided when Russia backed down. There was, however, war in the Balkans between 1911 and 1912 when the Balkan states drove Turkey out of the area. The states then fought each other over which area should belong to which state. Austria-Hungary then intervened and forced Serbia to give up some of its acquisitions. Tension between Serbia and Austria-Hungary was high.

See, I told you Google is your friend (or Wikipedia).

Although it is commonly understood that the assassination of Franz Ferdinand was the trigger to WW1, I won't put the blame at the feet of Princip when the start of the war could have been avoided by diplomacy by Austria-Hungary and Germany, who instead opted for aggressive military action because they thought they could get away with it.

Edit: I hope someone tried the Turkish moon landing Google search; I had no idea that that's a real thing!

Edited November 26, 2015 by orosee

[manarak]

I can only compare this to someone who is armed coming into my house, just a little ways. I should just ignore them or shoo them away?

Ah, your comparisons are always purposeful when against another country than the US or a US ally...

No, a patent comparison would be a man from neighborhood watch briefly crossed the corner of your garden in pursuit of the illegitimate son you had with your neighbor but who now mugs people and sells drugs, and just when the watchman wanted to jump the fence again to continue pursuing him (showing no interest at all in attacking you or your property), you shot the neighborhood watchman in the back with your rifle.

Edited November 26, 2015 by manarak

[Publicus]

I can only compare this to someone who is armed coming into my house, just a little ways. I should just ignore them or shoo them away?

Ah, your comparisons are always purposeful when against another country than the US or a US ally...

No, a patent comparison would be a man from neighborhood watch briefly crossed the corner of your garden in pursuit of the illegitimate son you had with your neighbor but who now mugs people and sells drugs, and just when the watchman wanted to jump the fence again to continue pursuing him (showing no interest at all in attacking you or your property), you shot the neighborhood watchman in the back with your rifle.

Moving along in the thread topic, Putin (as we have seen in Ukraine) is irredentist so he understands and comprehends ethnicity.

Turkmen who are ethnically Turks (as in Turkey) exist on both sides of the border. There are Turkey Turkmen and there are Syrian Turkmen.

Regardless of nationality, Turkmen are Turkish in their ethnicity.

Ethnic Turks are fighting Assad. The ethnic Turkmen and the government of Turkey want Assad out. Putin to the contrary rushed in to Syria to save Assad's shrunken control over Syrian territory. What used to be Syria.

When Putin bombs Turkmen, whether men, women, children, Putin is bombing ethnic Turks. Putin fully well knows this, understands it, comprehends it.

Which is why Turkey Prime Minister Erdogan finally and publicly swift kicked Putin in the balls. Erdogan is wound even tighter than Putin is wound tight and everyone knows it. No surprise then that each guy just hauls off and does whatever strikes his fancy at any given moment or time.

Regardless, fact is Putin and Erdogan got on famously until Putin started bombing ethnic Turks at the Turkey border and until Putin started to fight on Assad's side. Turkey and Syria are neighbors. Russia is a good distance off and away from the area by a couple of bodies of water and a lot of mountains.

Putin in Syria rushed into the swamp to drain it. Now that crocodiles are taking chunks out of Vlad's arse he's calling in the ak-ak missiles. The swamp meanwhile keeps rising.

[Credo]

I can only compare this to someone who is armed coming into my house, just a little ways. I should just ignore them or shoo them away?

Ah, your comparisons are always purposeful when against another country than the US or a US ally...

No, a patent comparison would be a man from neighborhood watch briefly crossed the corner of your garden in pursuit of the illegitimate son you had with your neighbor but who now mugs people and sells drugs, and just when the watchman wanted to jump the fence again to continue pursuing him (showing no interest at all in attacking you or your property), you shot the neighborhood watchman in the back with your rifle.

The neighborhood watch would probably identify themselves and respond.

This is about Russia and Turkey. Russia crossed Turkish airspace and the consequences were they were shot down.

It is a war zone, there are enemies in the area. It goes with the territory.

[WorthyDan]

Crash Course has a few videos of why ww1 was started and there isn't really a great answer. It seems like a few war prone nations were to blame.

Let's hope we are a litttle bit smarter 100 years later and they can solve their differences and just focus on isil for the moment.

[connda]

Putins hands are tied , too many Russians in Turkey , to take revenge.

Otherwise a tactical nuke on a turkisch airforce base would send a powerful message.

The first nuke that flies will simply bring about MAD. Nobody in their right mind is going to fire any nuke, tactical or not. However, most world leaders can't be accused of being in 'their right minds.' Putin is currently the 'voice of reason' in the global insane asylum whose inmates call themselves 'world leaders.' Unfortunately they leave out the adjective, "psychopathic" before their titles.

How do you 'bake' Turkey?

The RU36-M2 ICBM nicknamed the SS-18 Satan

For anyone who thinks this is a game, go back and watch Kubrick's Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb. At least you'll have a chuckle as you stare into the abyss.

Edited November 27, 2015 by connda

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.