Warning or no warning – tension grows between Russia and Turkey over downed jet

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Warning or no warning – tension grows between Russia and Turkey over downed jet



PARIS: -- Moscow and Ankara continue to contest the circumstances surrounding Turkey’s downing of a Russian jet. Now its over the issue of whether there was a warning.

Turkey’s military has released what it says is an audio recording:of the Russian pilots being told to change their heading south immediately.
Much is unintelligible but other military planes in the area say they also heard it.

Capt Konstantin Murakhtin speaking from the Hmeymim airbase, where Russia’s aircraft have been based in in its Syrian campaign, and where he was taken after being rescued, disagrees that there were any warnings:

“There were no warnings. Not via the radio, not visually. There was no contact whatsoever. That’s why we were keeping our combat course as usual. … If they wanted to warn us, they could have shown themselves by heading on a parallel course.”

Russia has since dispatched the advanced S-400 missile system to Syria. The move is likely to be viewed by Turkey as a stark warning not to shoot down any more of its planes.

So too will be the deployment of a missile cruiser to the Mediterranean.

A furious Russia earlier warned of serious consequences but has since stated it does not intend to go to war with NATO member Turkey.

-- (c) Copyright Euronews 2015-11-26

[John1012]

Why did the Turks not just fly up to the Russian plane, as the British jets do with Bears that come near to UK airspace? There was absolutely no need for the plane to be fired upon, not as if it was going to attack anything in Turkey. This was a very stupid aggressive act, and the Turks will pay a very steep price. Putin will not forget . I would not be surprised if any Turkish aircraft that even looks as if it is threatening a Russin plane will be shot down, even if it is in Turkish airspace.

[BuaBS]

Assad should close Syrian airspace for all Turkish planes , civilian or military. That way Russia can shoot down every Turk that crosses the border.

[Lukecan]

Assad should close Syrian airspace for all Turkish planes , civilian or military. That way Russia can shoot down every Turk that crosses the border.

Very wise idea indeed, and then Turkey can retaliate by closing the straits to Russian ships citing "act of war"

If it wasn't for the Russian aggression in 1947, Turkey wouldn't be a NATO member today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Straits_crisis

Russia asked for it, its asking for it again.

Edited November 26, 2015 by Lukecan

[zackattack]

Putin is old school KGB and also real good friends with the bushes that makes him a VERY VERY dangerous man.

[Thaidream]

This action occurred over a very thin sliver of Turkish territory that juts along Syria. While Turkey may have warned the opposing Russian aircraft- the Turks were a little quick on the trigger. Normal protocol would have been for the Turkish jets to have made visual contact with the Russians and warned them off at that point. Then if the Russians did not leave Turkish air space- the Turks could have fired. The Russians can put a whole lot of heat on the Turks economically as millions of Russian tourists go to Turkey.

As an American, I still say let the Russians have a free hand in Syria fighting ISIS and anyone else that poses a threat. This is better than having American intervention and losing American treasure. Iraq and Afghanistan were enough. Bring the troops home. Syria is a failed state Ever wonder why Switzerland and Norway are wealthy countries- they don't get involved in other countries wars or disputes. Economic strength is much better than being the number one military power.

Edited November 26, 2015 by Thaidream

[Credo]

Why did the Turks not just fly up to the Russian plane, as the British jets do with Bears that come near to UK airspace? There was absolutely no need for the plane to be fired upon, not as if it was going to attack anything in Turkey. This was a very stupid aggressive act, and the Turks will pay a very steep price. Putin will not forget . I would not be surprised if any Turkish aircraft that even looks as if it is threatening a Russin plane will be shot down, even if it is in Turkish airspace.

These are not the type of incursions that happen frequently in countries that are not at war. This is an active war zone and Turkish planes would be absolutely foolish beyond belief to engage these heavily armed fighter jets.

It's sad, but the choices are either to ignore it to shoot it down. There's much in between.

We also do not know what the Turkish military may have on the ground in that area that they might have felt was threatened militarily.

[shamrock09]

This action occurred over a very thin sliver of Turkish territory that juts along Syria. While Turkey may have warned the opposing Russian aircraft- the Turks were a little quick on the trigger. Normal protocol would have been for the Turkish jets to have made visual contact with the Russians and warned them off at that point. Then if the Russians did not leave Turkish air space- the Turks could have fired. The Russians can put a whole lot of heat on the Turks economically as millions of Russian tourists go to Turkey.

As an American, I still say let the Russians have a free hand in Syria fighting ISIS and anyone else that poses a threat. This is better than having American intervention and losing American treasure. Iraq and Afghanistan were enough. Bring the troops home. Syria is a failed state Ever wonder why Switzerland and Norway are wealthy countries- they don't get involved in other countries wars or disputes. Economic strength is much better than being the number one military power.

War is a very profitable business. I feel it is naive of Americans to suppose that the US has set itself up as the noble policeman to the world. The USA inherited the British Empire and has worked hard to extend its sphere of interest, because this gives it access to myriad economic benefits . Syria is very far from a failed state, although certain parties would like very much if it were. Assad has held out for over 4 years. His country was earmarked by the Project of the New American Century for de-stabilisation. Assad's Syria is blocking the completion of the Qatari Natural Gas pipeline to Europe and has to be forced into a position that would mean the pipeline lay protected by Western Interests. This is very similar to Afghanistan in 2001.Moreover, a recent report on Israeli television reveals that large oil deposits have been found in the Golan Heights. The Golan Heights belong to Syria, but have been occupied by Israel ever since the 1967 Six Day War. Israel has pressed the US to give the nod, so they can officially claim the territory as their own. Obama has thus far refused to give in to this demand. The US plays a pivotal role in the Middle-East and is unlikely to relinquish it and send the troops home, because that would be a nice thing to do! All sides are coming together in a very dangerous situation in Syria, which if anyone makes a mistake (Turkey) could result in World War 111.. Remember the saying "Ordo ab Chao". Out of situations like this, order will be imposed. Scary isn't it?

[momtaz]

This is Turkey, not Syria the open parlor for all...

Turkish army has the full right to protect their space,

and let's see if this guy putin try to do any stupid action, he may forgot how the Afhgans kicked them out,,

every day the russian planes killing 100s of civilians in Syrian under the title of attacking the vagabon dogs of ISIS,

Why he mentioned about Tukey going to Islamist state? he just heared now? or anything else to ve used just mix up and count it on Islam?

Anyway, Russians and others should understand that old imperialism days gone,

we are in different time now, they may try to play it again just as provocative action and see the answer of Turky, which also a member of NATO, Tukey is a sovereign state, and no one allowed to across its border, otherswise the fire will catch up,

[Krataiboy]

Why did the Turks not just fly up to the Russian plane, as the British jets do with Bears that come near to UK airspace? There was absolutely no need for the plane to be fired upon, not as if it was going to attack anything in Turkey. This was a very stupid aggressive act, and the Turks will pay a very steep price. Putin will not forget . I would not be surprised if any Turkish aircraft that even looks as if it is threatening a Russin plane will be shot down, even if it is in Turkish airspace.

Turkey, which has a Sunni Muslim majority, supports ISIL and sources the oil which keeps the jihadist rocky horror show on the road. With the West dithering over what to do about Assad, the Turks see the Sunni-led jihadists as the best bet for unseating the Syrian leader.

Turkey deliberately shot down the Russian plane knowing that, irrespective of whose air space it was in, the NATO nations would have to take the side of their putative ally. Blowing the Russian fighter out of the sky dashed recent optimism that Putin and Obama might forces against the Islamic extremists.

There is still a way out of the woods. Obama should to tell the treasonous Turks to stop selling oil to the enemy and seal off the supply corridor (which should never have been left open in the first place), He needs also to sink his pride and seek to persuade Putin to join a concerted bombing campaign to knock out ISIL forces immobilised when their fuel starts to run out.

In concert, the two world leaders should be able to exert enough leverage on the warring factions in Syria to achieve a temporary truce in the fighting as the basis for round-the-table negotiations. Putin will first need to persuade his White House opposite number that (as the rashly gung-ho Bush administration found to its cost after uprooting the despots who ran Iraq and Libya) it makes no sense to oust the Syrian president without first having an acceptable substitute leadership waiting in the wings.

If these twin objectives can be achieved - within weeks, some experts believe - peace will return to the war-torn region at least long enough to stem the flood of refugees to countries within a European Union in danger of fragmenting in the face of resurgent nationalism.

Most important of all, by refusing to fall into the trap set by the cynical, self-serving Turks, Putin and Obama will avoid any chance of a Russia-NATO military confrontation and the unimaginably horrific prospect of a thermonuclear third world war.

[Usernames]

@Krataiboy. There is not going to be a thermonuclear war. It does seem that the Turks were well within their rights to shoot down the Russian's jet, here. But I am content to let Putin and his people carry the load in defeating ISIS or whoever else in Syria. There's a compromise for you.

[mpa]

Obama to Putin :
- What will you have for Thanksgiving dinner ?
- Turkey

[Cook my sock]

IS smuggle oil through turkey, Putin knows Turkey is supporting IS and another rebel group. Funny how Al Nusra are now being referred to by the yanks as moderate rebels lol.

[Publicus]

Before Putin got actively involved bombing in Syria to save Assad, Putin and Erdogan had excellent relations.

Today though when Putin woke up he found he'd suddenly shit the bed. And that Erdogan had already showered, dressed and left.

The Vladimir Putin travelling circus is only just beginning in the Middle East, Turkey, Nato, ISIS infiltrating Russia with their threats etc etc.

Nato has no beef with Turkey cause Putin's been flying bombers into Nato countries' airspace the past 16 months, to include all the way over to the US and Canada.

The photo at the top of the thread is of Putin just getting back up on his feet right after Erdogan kicked Vlad in the balls. Oooo that hurts.

[John1012]

Why did the Turks not just fly up to the Russian plane, as the British jets do with Bears that come near to UK airspace? There was absolutely no need for the plane to be fired upon, not as if it was going to attack anything in Turkey. This was a very stupid aggressive act, and the Turks will pay a very steep price. Putin will not forget . I would not be surprised if any Turkish aircraft that even looks as if it is threatening a Russin plane will be shot down, even if it is in Turkish airspace.

Turkey, which has a Sunni Muslim majority, supports ISIL and sources the oil which keeps the jihadist rocky horror show on the road. With the West dithering over what to do about Assad, the Turks see the Sunni-led jihadists as the best bet for unseating the Syrian leader.

Turkey deliberately shot down the Russian plane knowing that, irrespective of whose air space it was in, the NATO nations would have to take the side of their putative ally. Blowing the Russian fighter out of the sky dashed recent optimism that Putin and Obama might forces against the Islamic extremists.

There is still a way out of the woods. Obama should to tell the treasonous Turks to stop selling oil to the enemy and seal off the supply corridor (which should never have been left open in the first place), He needs also to sink his pride and seek to persuade Putin to join a concerted bombing campaign to knock out ISIL forces immobilised when their fuel starts to run out.

In concert, the two world leaders should be able to exert enough leverage on the warring factions in Syria to achieve a temporary truce in the fighting as the basis for round-the-table negotiations. Putin will first need to persuade his White House opposite number that (as the rashly gung-ho Bush administration found to its cost after uprooting the despots who ran Iraq and Libya) it makes no sense to oust the Syrian president without first having an acceptable substitute leadership waiting in the wings.

If these twin objectives can be achieved - within weeks, some experts believe - peace will return to the war-torn region at least long enough to stem the flood of refugees to countries within a European Union in danger of fragmenting in the face of resurgent nationalism.

Most important of all, by refusing to fall into the trap set by the cynical, self-serving Turks, Putin and Obama will avoid any chance of a Russia-NATO military confrontation and the unimaginably horrific prospect of a thermonuclear third world war.

Interesting Machievellin plot by Johnny Turk. Could be true. As to negotiation,one cannot negoatiate with ISIL fundamentalists. It is either myway or the highway. There are no grey areas.We will have to subjugate themcomplately. I am saddened , but not surprised, that Obummer's government et al. have come to an agreement with Iran re. nuclear weapon development. Islam plays a very long term game, they can wait a generation if necessary to achieve their objectives. Islam is slowly expanding it's barbaric, medieval cult and will eventually repopulate any weakly run society, i.e Sweden, soon Germany, maybe France and possibly England .

[Usernames]

Obama to Putin :

- What will you have for Thanksgiving dinner ?

- Turkey

Like Sherman, he'll need to march through Georgia to get it.

[Publicus]

Why did the Turks not just fly up to the Russian plane, as the British jets do with Bears that come near to UK airspace? There was absolutely no need for the plane to be fired upon, not as if it was going to attack anything in Turkey. This was a very stupid aggressive act, and the Turks will pay a very steep price. Putin will not forget . I would not be surprised if any Turkish aircraft that even looks as if it is threatening a Russin plane will be shot down, even if it is in Turkish airspace.

Turkey, which has a Sunni Muslim majority, supports ISIL and sources the oil which keeps the jihadist rocky horror show on the road. With the West dithering over what to do about Assad, the Turks see the Sunni-led jihadists as the best bet for unseating the Syrian leader.

Turkey deliberately shot down the Russian plane knowing that, irrespective of whose air space it was in, the NATO nations would have to take the side of their putative ally. Blowing the Russian fighter out of the sky dashed recent optimism that Putin and Obama might forces against the Islamic extremists.

There is still a way out of the woods. Obama should to tell the treasonous Turks to stop selling oil to the enemy and seal off the supply corridor (which should never have been left open in the first place), He needs also to sink his pride and seek to persuade Putin to join a concerted bombing campaign to knock out ISIL forces immobilised when their fuel starts to run out.

In concert, the two world leaders should be able to exert enough leverage on the warring factions in Syria to achieve a temporary truce in the fighting as the basis for round-the-table negotiations. Putin will first need to persuade his White House opposite number that (as the rashly gung-ho Bush administration found to its cost after uprooting the despots who ran Iraq and Libya) it makes no sense to oust the Syrian president without first having an acceptable substitute leadership waiting in the wings.

If these twin objectives can be achieved - within weeks, some experts believe - peace will return to the war-torn region at least long enough to stem the flood of refugees to countries within a European Union in danger of fragmenting in the face of resurgent nationalism.

Most important of all, by refusing to fall into the trap set by the cynical, self-serving Turks, Putin and Obama will avoid any chance of a Russia-NATO military confrontation and the unimaginably horrific prospect of a thermonuclear third world war.

Interesting Machievellin plot by Johnny Turk. Could be true. As to negotiation,one cannot negoatiate with ISIL fundamentalists. It is either myway or the highway. There are no grey areas.We will have to subjugate themcomplately. I am saddened , but not surprised, that Obummer's government et al. have come to an agreement with Iran re. nuclear weapon development. Islam plays a very long term game, they can wait a generation if necessary to achieve their objectives. Islam is slowly expanding it's barbaric, medieval cult and will eventually repopulate any weakly run society, i.e Sweden, soon Germany, maybe France and possibly England .

Islam plays a very long term game

The game in the Soviet Union lasted 74 years before it came up snake eyes. Maybe 1917 to 1991 is long term, maybe it's not. The Cold War wasn't Islam but it was Russia's losing game from the start.

The CCP in Beijing just recently hit retirement age, 66 and they're already looking at which country to flee to with their corrupt bucks while everyone else suffers the long grinding collapse. Iran keeps turning over like a rug at spring cleaning. The House of Saud has had a good run of it but a hundred years might well be enough for the folk there. Etc.

Took the United States 3 years and 8 months to end World War 2 and one year to close out World War I.

Daesh came and Daesh will go, same as al Qaeda which is currently struggling to pull itself out of its hole. Bin Laden sleeps with the fishes. We buried Khrushchev. When this is over we'll take Lenin out and put Vlad in cause Putin is the real communist.

Only possibility for Daesh is if they become Mafia. Copy Russia. Except Daesh would need to size down on the territory and get respectable like the Corleone Family. Learn to use the heaters sparingly and only when necessary, as it were.

The winning team knows how to play the long game across the length of the pitch then to play the short game in front of the goal.

Turkey to Putin: Welcome to the bigs

It’s one thing to be a KGBeastie stylin’ around Dresden, East Germany. It’s another to ignore warnings from a NATO country about its sovereignty. That’s what Vladimir Putin has learned in the last day or so, I think

http://news.yahoo.com/turkey-putin-welcome-bigs-152514786.html