Traffic

[ChiangMaiThai]

Three things to rant about tonight.

One. What do you think Chiang Mai will be like in 10 or 15 years traffic wise? There are more and more cars sold every day and the roads are becoming more and more congested. These roads are simply not built for this many cars as it is. Think about a decade down the road. I'm happy to see the underpassed on the superhighway, but I don't think that's going to resolve the issue. There needs to be some major changes implemented now.

Two. Do the Thais understand that to drive a car, one needs a place to park it? I know that's a bit mean, but it seems insane to me that there are so many interesting shops and restarants in locations where there is simply no parking. If there is going to be no efficient public transportation, why doesn't the city build large multi story car parks in areas with a high demand for parking? Seems like there could be good money in it and it would benefit businesses and drivers alike.

Three. It saddens me to know the number of people who die every year in accidents that could be avoided. Obviously a major reason there are so many deaths is because people don't where helmets on motorcycles. So why don't the police enforce this rule? 'They do', you say. True, during the day (and if you are on the back, no helmet, no problem- you will be safe there). It seems clear to me that the police simply don't care and neither does any political power here. I don't imagien their kids are riding motorcycles around anyway. Why do I say this? Because everyone knows that at night you don't need a helmet because ever so rarely do the police set up checkpoints at night. I guess they'd rather be out at karaoke. (I did see a couple checkpoints run by two cops a night ago. First time ever. But I think its safe to say that this is due to desire for more holiday spending money more than anything else).

Before you say that this is not my country, I should be quiet, please understand that these are things that negatively affect everyone. Confronting the issues and providing real solutions will only raise the quality of life for everyone concerned. I am not commenting on religion or food or cultural traditions. I'm commenting on traffic, which I beleive is one of those things that expats have a right to bring up, and in the case of avoidable accidents that are killing people, even a duty.

[Guest Lazarus]

I howled with mirth at the Blonkok Post today blathering about road safety. Made me think of a missionary nattering to the pope about the road to eternal life. Would have been good to see it in the Thai Press, which at least has the nouse to stand up and be counted.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Three things to rant about tonight.

One. What do you think Chiang Mai will be like in 10 or 15 years traffic wise? There are more and more cars sold every day and the roads are becoming more and more congested. These roads are simply not built for this many cars as it is. Think about a decade down the road. I'm happy to see the underpassed on the superhighway, but I don't think that's going to resolve the issue. There needs to be some major changes implemented now.

Two. Do the Thais understand that to drive a car, one needs a place to park it? I know that's a bit mean, but it seems insane to me that there are so many interesting shops and restarants in locations where there is simply no parking. If there is going to be no efficient public transportation, why doesn't the city build large multi story car parks in areas with a high demand for parking? Seems like there could be good money in it and it would benefit businesses and drivers alike.

Three. It saddens me to know the number of people who die every year in accidents that could be avoided. Obviously a major reason there are so many deaths is because people don't where helmets on motorcycles. So why don't the police enforce this rule? 'They do', you say. True, during the day (and if you are on the back, no helmet, no problem- you will be safe there). It seems clear to me that the police simply don't care and neither does any political power here. I don't imagien their kids are riding motorcycles around anyway. Why do I say this? Because everyone knows that at night you don't need a helmet because ever so rarely do the police set up checkpoints at night. I guess they'd rather be out at karaoke. (I did see a couple checkpoints run by two cops a night ago. First time ever. But I think its safe to say that this is due to desire for more holiday spending money more than anything else).

Before you say that this is not my country, I should be quiet, please understand that these are things that negatively affect everyone. Confronting the issues and providing real solutions will only raise the quality of life for everyone concerned. I am not commenting on religion or food or cultural traditions. I'm commenting on traffic, which I beleive is one of those things that expats have a right to bring up, and in the case of avoidable accidents that are killing people, even a duty.

In 10 to 15 years CMT ... it'll be horrendous ... unless some practical and sensible form of decentralization is come up with.

[ChiangMaiThai]

One every six minutes.... And this is the number they are satisfied with. That says it all. And I agree Doctor, the traffic in 10 years or so will be absolutley terrible. There's something to be said for planning ahead...

[ovenman]

All of the new roads/flyovers/underpasses and such that are being constructed around Chiang Mai will ultimately make the traffic problem worse in the long run. They merely encourage the construction of yet more housing projects outside the city.

[sabaijai]

All of the new roads/flyovers/underpasses and such that are being constructed around Chiang Mai will ultimately make the traffic problem worse in the long run. They merely encourage the construction of yet more housing projects outside the city.

And building parking structures will encourage people to buy more cars. As it stands the traffic situation in CM is a disincentive to car ownership.

Now if they could take that a few steps further by eliminating half of the rot daeng and instead expand the air-con bus system so that it covers more of the city. The disemployed rot daeng drivers could be trained to drive and/or take tickets on the added buses.

Well it doesn't hurt to dream. As long as we're pointing out problems might as well think of some solutions.

Like most Thai cities of its size, Chiang Mai is run by a local political dynasty whose main objective in taking on any public works projects is to earn kickbacks. They have their own drivers with DVD-equipped cars so the sluggish traffic doesn't bother them much. Parking? Mercedes, etc have the automatic right to double-park wherever they like.

One could flee to smaller towns, but I've tried this and found amphoe officials and local police to be even more uneducated and corrupt by comparison.

I think the only thing one can do it write letters - in Thai - to the relevant city administrators, pointing out that one is a long-time Ch Mai resident, with kids in school, etc, and keep the letter-writing steady and frequent. It may or may not help, but may at least make you feel a tad less helpless. I doubt that anyone in the Ch Mai thetsabaan reads this website ...

[lamphun]

Chiang Mai used to have a public transport system. Up until a few years back there were yellow buses running on about eight or nine routes around the city. I used to live in Nong Hoi and used the bus a lot. I think it was three baht to the middle of town. Then they had a council election and a group of "family" men took over. The buses were scrapped. You can still see a few of them rusting around town. One has been cut in half and turned into a bar behind Tesco-Lotus near Chang Puak.

As for the aircon buses that run from near the airport to the middle of town. It's a good idea though I think their owned by Taksin's sister.

[ChiangMaiThai]

And building parking structures will encourage people to buy more cars. As it stands the traffic situation in CM is a disincentive to car ownership.

I doubt that car ownership is looked at this way by the vast majority of Thais. On the contrary, they think of owning a car and think of status and comfort. Parking and traffic are an afterthought if thought about at all. There is no way around it. There will be more and more cars on the roads as the years go by and I think building parking structures is a must.

[Ajarn]

If anyone was living here before all the expressways and overheads in Bkk, then you'll remember what 'Real' traffic was like...One hour per block was not uncommon at all...The first overpasses built on Rama 4 were a godsend

Traffic in Bkk is much improved, and the city has been serious about rapid transit systems for a few years, and they are beginning to pay off, in my estimation.

All the ring roads and super-hiway additions around CM are paying off, too. The main idea is to route through traffic away from being forced to travel downtown, as we had to do in the past....The traffic downtown started to be really problematic in the 80's, and most main roads became one-way to better accomodate the increasing traffic. This worked okay, except for all the driving in circles we must do now...Now that Thapae road has reached the saturation point (mostly because of Pratu Thapae blocking traffic) along with many other downtown roads, we must hope that our new outer roadways will take most of the load off downtown traffic, which still leaves all the traffic that still needs to enter the downtown area...

Of course cars are going to increase. We must continue to plan for that by building better and safer roads, and.....we must plan for more mass transit. No city has yet been able to completely replace cars, but many cities have been able to control traffic travelling downtown through the use of mass transit and road controls. Singapore is a good example of that. Controls are based on money...More expensive cars, more expensive tickets, and an automatic billing system for using particular roads, at particular times... And, of course, they are strict about their laws, unlike the authorities here.

[JimGant]

Do the Thais understand that to drive a car, one needs a place to park it?

No problem. My first observation in CM was that you could park whereever you wanted.

[sabaijai]

Chiang Mai used to have a public transport system. Up until a few years back there were yellow buses running on about eight or nine routes around the city.

Eight or nine routes? I remember only four. Was I missing another 4-5?

I've used the pink air-con bus, which has actually been around for several years as a shuttle bus between the city and the Khwan Wiang housing estate off Hang Dong Rd. I assume it was originally developed by the owners/managers of that housing estate. Anyway it works well for the route it serves.

[Guest chingy]

Singapore have no road to start out off, singapore is as big as bangkok, Singapore control your life, they tell you what to do and when to do it, and yes they have strict law they throw you and jail for spitting, and chewing gum, life in singapore is no life.

[sabaijai]

And in Bangkok all bars close at 1am, in Singapore they can stay open all night ...

Singapore nowadays is in many ways more liberal than old BKK. Didn't used to be that way.

[Foggy Bottom]

A perennial problem - read opinions from Dec 2002 and published in atwo part article

Part 1 - A level playing field

Part 2 - Home away from home

Has anything been done about the worrying results in the surveys in that article - read them and judge for yourself.

[sabaijai]

Nothing's been done, Gaz. Who read the survey? Expats and tourists. Who runs the city? A northern Thai political dynasty that only undertakes public works when there's a healthy kickback involved.

Perhaps if someone were to take the time to translate these articles into Thai and submit them directly to the thetsabaan, it might make a dent in local thinking. Might. Certainly carrying out and publishing such surveys in City Life is for the most part a useless excercise.

[Foggy Bottom]

I know that City Life is read fairly widely by Thai Ajarns at CMU and all press is monitored by the Public Relations Dept (which has a sub office in Chiangmai) so maybe some feedback will drift in the direction of City Hall .... not holding breath

[chanchao]

I completely agree with Ajarns post.. Chiang Mai has a fighting chance to still be motorable in 10-15 years time. There IS a lot of decentralization going on. The 'old city' really isn't anything of a busy center, and the hypermarkets around town took away LOTS of people who would otherwise be congesting the Kad Luang (Talad Warorot) area. (yes these hypermarkets are out of town because of their own common sense, not necessarily planning, but the effect is there).

Also: The local government was completely moved away from the city center towards Mae Rim, exactly at the new ring road! If that isn't decentralization and planning at work then I don't know what is. The new separated-lanes canal road will reduce traffic from the Hang Dong road as well, and then there's the new Sankamphaeng road that really is a godsend as well. Oh yes, a new road to the (surprise) new Tesco Lotus was made recently, to reduce the traditionally horrible traffic on Chotana Road. (This road has been bad for as long as I can remember, and me actually be less congested now than before??)

Then the flyovers and underpasses are excellent. Before, taking the ring road would actually take LONGER than just cutting through town, because of some major traffic light delays at all the intersections. This is improving now. Not only that, also a second and THIRD ring road are being constructed. Do we currently need a third ring road? Of course not, but the planning is there and new businesses and entertainment places can spring up there, which will channel traffic away from the center.

Someone said that new roads will just lead to more housing estates.. hello? Would it be better if those were built INSIDE the city, and/or more hi-rise condo's would be built? Let them build them all the way to Chiang Rai and Lamphun if they want. Fact of the matter is that Chiang Mai IS growing rapidly, and all those people have to live somewhere. On a grander scale it's GOOD that Chiang Mai and other regional centers are growing; maybe the Thai urban economy will be a bit more balanced in the future, with not everything gravitating towards Bangkok.

So over all, I think the Chiang Mai municipality is not doing all that bad of a job. Especially by old Thai standards, I mean just look at Bangkok what a nightmare that place is. (but indeed also improving)

Cheers,

Chanchao

[englishoak]

What will the traffic be like in 15 years time ? Oh my god now thats a scarey thought.

True Bangkok is improving but the pollution is getting worse i'm sure.

At the rate that cars are being put on the road i suspect the road planning and public transport will not keep up. It is possible the land of smiles will become the land of smog !.

I also suspect that one day we will see traffic wardens in the major cities. Underground and multi storey car parks. Mabe even enforced parking hours or even a toll in inner cities like london.Almost every car other than taxis carry just one passenger most of the time in Bangkok, and the buses do not have a clear route through. Traffic planning in Thailand is abismal and control is limited. The sad thing is I don't think it will change much in the next decade just more traffic.

[chanchao]

> True Bangkok is improving but the pollution is getting worse i'm sure.

I'm not too sure.. Walking around Bangkok 10 years ago gave me a headache and really made me 'plan my breaths'.. Also when wiping the sweat of my forehead caused black streaks on my hanky or sleeves... yuck. I think this has improved somewhat.

Do agree more or less with the rest of your post.. though I'm a staunch optimist. ;-)

Cheers,

Chanchao