Krengjai

[Vespa]

Is consideration just not enough of a def. for this word ?

[Neeranam]

Yes.

One word in English is not possible.

[Barney_the_Dinosaur]

"Guilty" but but not in a legal sense, more of a moral-indebted sense.

[meadish_sweetball]

No Barney, although I do love you, 'guilty' doesn't really catch it. The thing you are describing sounds a lot more like 'bun khun'.

'kreeng jai' is when you feel hesitant to bother somebody else - ask them for a favour or something along the lines of that. There are rules prescribing who you should feel 'kreeng jai' to.

'Considerate' is good when 'kreeng jai' is used in the positive sense, but you can not really use it as a catch all translation for the concept 'kreeng jai', you need to look at what circumstances it is used in.

Since 'kreeng jai' is typically shown more to elders and superiors, sometimes 'deferential' is closer to the mark.

[RAZZELL]

No Barney, although I do love you, 'guilty' doesn't really catch it. The thing you are describing sounds a lot more like 'bun khun'.

'kreeng jai' is when you feel hesitant to bother somebody else - ask them for a favour or something along the lines of that. There are rules prescribing who you should feel 'kreeng jai' to.

'Considerate' is good when 'kreeng jai' is used in the positive sense, but you can not really use it as a catch all translation for the concept 'kreeng jai', you need to look at what circumstances it is used in.

Since 'kreeng jai' is typically shown more to elders and superiors, sometimes 'deferential' is closer to the mark.

So if you "lent" or "gave" somone some money, or did them a favour in some way and by which they felt "indebted" to you...is this an example?

[meadish_sweetball]

The person who lent money from you would

'mii nîi bun khun' unto you (have a debt a of gratitude)

Ideally, and if he has good manners, he should also feel/be "kreeng jai" if he has received a gift, or not paid back the loan.

[sleepyjohn]

Doesn't it sometimes mean to like feel obliged to fulfil a favour also?

[Thaddeus]

The word in English that would come closest is 'respect'.

[Rikker]

You'd need more like dozens of words, it's totally different depending on the context. The attitude of the person who is เกรงใจ varies widely, too.

You can feel เกรงใจ to do something even though you don't want to, เกรงใจ to do something and you don't mind having to do it, เกรงใจ not to do something you want to do, เกรงใจ not to do something you should do, เกรงใจ not to do something and you don't mind it, เกรงใจ not to accept something someone else wants to do for you and you're sincere about not wanting to accept, เกรงใจ not to accept even though you really want to, etc. etc.

Sometimes it's obliged, sometimes it's hesitant, sometimes it's respectful, sometimes it's deferential, sometimes its considerate, sometimes it's bound by the cultural norms... etc.

Hard to sum up and impossible to do in one word. Farang TV personality/author Andrew Biggs has a book answering common questions about English titled เกรงใจแปลว่าอะไร, because he says that's far-and-away the question he gets asked most by Thais. Ultimately, I think that the breadth, variety, and significance of ความเกรงใจ is really a culturally foreign concept, at least for me as an American. I can't speak for other cultures. But here's how I see it for America:

Where I'm from, if an American offers you something and you say no and they insist, then you're safe to take it, because they wouldn't keep offering if they didn't want you to take it. Similarly, if you are offered something and you say no thanks, you'll rarely get asked again, except maybe an "Are you sure?" The idea is, you wouldn't refuse (and definitely not more than once) unless you didn't want it or thought it would be too much of an imposition or something.

So in America, you don't generally offer something you aren't willing to give. But in Thailand, you might get offered things all the time that the owner actually doesn't want to give you, and it's your job to be เกรงใจ and say no. If you're too eager to accept everything offered you, the giver might think you're impolite.

So in Thai culture, it's polite to refuse something at least once, and polite for the giver to keep trying to push something on the refuser. Because the giver thinks the refuser is too เกรงใจ to take it, and the recipient thinks the giver is being เกรงใจ in offering it.

Now, obviously, familiarity changes the game, because you can deal more directly and not have to play the เกรงใจ game.

But that's just one way in which เกรงใจ is totally different from my native social norms.

Edited October 11, 2006 by Rikker

[meadish_sweetball]

So in Thai culture, it's polite to refuse something at least once, and polite for the giver to keep trying to push something on the refuser. Because the giver thinks the refuser is too เกรงใจ to take it, and the recipient thinks the giver is being เกรงใจ in offering it.

My grandmother's generation in Sweden have this as well, it is part of being a good host. People are not expected to be able to say what they want or need, it should be the job of the host to provide it.

Drives my generation insane when you have already declined more biscuits three times already, and they ask again.

[Jimbo551]

Is consideration just not enough of a def. for this word ?

From an article by Khun Kriengsak Niratpattanasai on his web site

http://www.thaicoach.com/new/eng_column.php?info_id=240

Kreng-Jai Pros & Cons

`Kreng jai' means being aware of another person's feelings, helping others save face and showing respect and consideration. More than a behaviour, it is a core Thai value.

Expat managers will come across this seemingly inexplicable Thai characteristic perhaps more than any other. Applied wisely, it can bring success in daily life, business relationships and management. Here are some suggestions about how to use kreng jai effectively:

- Tell your staff that if they want to kreng jai you as the boss, they should be punctual for meetings, follow work schedules and assignment deadlines.

- If things go wrong, they should tell you, the sooner the better. There is no kreng jai in hiding bad news.

- Whenever staff feel kreng jai, ask them if they have considered all the possible consequences _ you could use some of the examples above. It is their responsibility to not kreng jai if the consequences could be serious.

- In most organisations, there will be a Thai person who has a kan-eng personality (friendly, informal, easy for everyone to talk to). This person could be a driver, secretary, trainer or, if you are lucky, the human resources manager. He or she could be an informal channel for getting feedback from the Thai staff if you are a foreign manager. Be careful to filter the message, though, because someone might try to send a message with a hidden agenda. Using this channel can bring you information from Thai staff who are too kreng jai to tell you directly.

If applied to the letter, some displays of kreng jai can have unhappy consequences as well. Here are some examples:

- A businessman loved to drive his car on provincial business trips. Aware that his health was weak, he always took along his driver just in case. On one trip the car crashed, the businessman died and his driver was seriously injured. Questioned by police after he recovered, the driver said that his boss often drove too fast and on that day visibility was poor. The driver confessed that he was too kreng jai to advise his boss to slow down.

- Before the 1997 financial crisis, the chief financial officer at a local corporation advised the CEO to hedge the company's foreign debt. The CFO had done an extensive analysis and strongly believed that the baht would be devalued. Several attempts to convince the CEO failed, as he was highly self-confident and stubborn. Eventually the CFO gave up, in a show of kreng jai. The company almost went bankrupt.

- A headhunting firm approached an executive to join another organisation. Several meetings tempted him to join as the compensation and career opportunities were very attractive. But he was too kreng jai with his existing boss who had always treated him well. The strong bond between the two reflected boon koon (a sense of reciprocity, gratitude). In the end, the man declined the offer.

- An executive had a company car and driver. When he had a dinner appointment, he fibbed to his driver that he would be finished around 9 pm, even though he knew it could be 10 pm or later. He didn't want the driver to be upset about having to wait around for so long. After several such evenings, the driver began to get frustrated since he had expected to finish work earlier. The boss had been too kreng jai towards the driver, who ended up resigning. Being kreng jai toward his boss, he never gave the real reason for quitting, only that he had urgent family matters to deal with upcountry.

- An administration clerk had minor surgery. Since the department faced a heavy workload, she came back to work the very next day due to kreng jai for her colleagues and the boss, though her doctor had recommended several days of rest. The staff appreciated her devotion. A few months later she made a major mistake at work and her colleagues concealed it from the boss out of hen jai (sympathy). When the boss discovered the mistake he also felt hen jai and did not apply the punishment set out in company policy. Later, the expat boss learned about the mistake and fired the Thai manager for failing to discipline his staff.

In project meetings, avoid asking, " Do you have any comments, concerns or questions? '' The staff might see problems but be too kreng jai to express their views out loud. You might ask them to write down their thoughts.

Alternatively, use specific questions such as " What do you think about the deadline?'' or " How realistic is it to achieve as planned?'' or " What could go wrong?'' After that, gather input one person at a time. Be patient because some people might beat around the bush by offering unnecessary information before getting to the point.

[Neeranam]

- An executive had a company car and driver. When he had a dinner appointment, he fibbed to his driver that he would be finished around 9 pm, even though he knew it could be 10 pm or later. He didn't want the driver to be upset about having to wait around for so long. After several such evenings, the driver began to get frustrated since he had expected to finish work earlier. The boss had been too kreng jai towards the driver, who ended up resigning. Being kreng jai toward his boss, he never gave the real reason for quitting, only that he had urgent family matters to deal with upcountry.

Surely, that should be, 'the driver wasn't greng jai enough'?

`Kreng jai' means being aware of another person's feelings, helping others save face and showing respect and consideration. More than a behaviour, it is a core Thai value.

Good definition.