Russia ratchets up rhetoric as relations with Turkey plummet

[webfact]

Russia ratchets up rhetoric as relations with Turkey plummet



MOSCOW: -- Russia says NATO must share responsibility with Turkey for the shooting down of one of its fighter jets last week because it gave Ankara political support for its actions.

The hardening of rhetoric comes as Russian bombers flew over Syria for the first time with air-to-air missiles for self-defence.

President Vladimir Putin later went further accusing Turkey of downing the jet to protect oil supplies from ISIL:

“We have every reason to believe that the decision on whether to shoot down our plane was dictated by the desire to ensure the safety of oil supply routes to Turkish territory, to the ports where they put it into oil tankers.”

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan who along with other world leaders is attending the Climate conference in Paris was outraged by Putin’s suggestion that oil from the Islamist militants was being routed through his country.

“You will get nowhere through slander. I’m clearly saying if this were proved to be correct I would resign. But I ask Mr. Putin: would you do the same and resign?” Turkey’s president has refused to apologise for the incident as he claims the jet had violated Turkish airspace.

On Monday the body of the pilot who died last week, arrived in Moscow.
Oleg Peshkov was shot dead by rebels from Syria’s ethnic Turkmen community while he was parachuting to the ground.


-- (c) Copyright Euronews 2015-12-01

[JHolmesJr]

All politicians have long noses, but Erdogan has the longest.

[Lukecan]

I hope Turkey closes the Bosphorus and NATO stand by them , then they'll have to sail them ships from siberia. 70% of Russias oil exports passes through the Bosphorus

[h90]

I hope Turkey closes the Bosphorus and NATO stand by them , then they'll have to sail them ships from siberia. 70% of Russias oil exports passes through the Bosphorus

In ISIS member club?

As Atheist I am happy that someone prevents them from cutting my head off...Christians and Gays should be similar grateful. Women rights aren't that great.

Even if you don't like Russia you should support them.

[Lukecan]

I hope Turkey closes the Bosphorus and NATO stand by them , then they'll have to sail them ships from siberia. 70% of Russias oil exports passes through the Bosphorus

In ISIS member club?

As Atheist I am happy that someone prevents them from cutting my head off...Christians and Gays should be similar grateful. Women rights aren't that great.

Even if you don't like Russia you should support them.

I'm an atheist too. Did you know 50% of ISIS new recruits are not born muslims, they are converts . People who want to go around killing people use ISIS as a decoy usually. Even in the most extreme form of islam called wahabism, ISIS acts are not tolerated. In Turkey a much more moderate version of islam is practiced, heck the national drink of Turkey is raki, contains 40% alcohol.

[Seastallion]

"“You will get nowhere through slander. I’m clearly saying if this were proved to be correct I would resign. But I ask Mr. Putin: would you do the same and resign?” "

Dems fight'n words.

I hope one of them resigns...I don't care which.

[alant]

I hope Turkey closes the Bosphorus and NATO stand by them , then they'll have to sail them ships from siberia. 70% of Russias oil exports passes through the Bosphorus

What a damn good idea! Of course you may wish to consider that market called China as a possible alternative for Russia. Of course you would want them to cut off the gas to the west as well I imagine.

[spidermike007]

I seem to be taking the contrary view on this one. Though Turkey (probably) overstepped a bit here, King Vlad is milking this for all it is worth. Finally, a little bit of world sympathy for Russia, after years of destructive exploits. Putin is a madman. He is capable of any sort of madness. I hope he does not escalate this into something more than it is.

[BuaBS]

Like I said before , a tactical nuke on Turkish airbase , will give a strong message. Nato isn't going to do anything. Turkey should not be in nato nor eu ( nor should get the 3 billion euro payout from the EU). Putin should not distroy the oil going to Turkey but take it and sell it to pay for the war. Go Vlad !

[Ulic]

Like I said before , a tactical nuke on Turkish airbase , will give a strong message. Nato isn't going to do anything. Turkey should not be in nato nor eu ( nor should get the 3 billion euro payout from the EU). Putin should not distroy the oil going to Turkey but take it and sell it to pay for the war. Go Vlad !

While I do not think the tactical nuke is a good idea, I do agree Turkey should not be in NATO

nor should it get the 3 billion Euro it has extorted from the EU, and it should not get visa free

access to the Schengen zone. Also its EU application should be left in the round file,

(the garbage can).

[craigt3365]

I hope Turkey closes the Bosphorus and NATO stand by them , then they'll have to sail them ships from siberia. 70% of Russias oil exports passes through the Bosphorus

In ISIS member club?

As Atheist I am happy that someone prevents them from cutting my head off...Christians and Gays should be similar grateful. Women rights aren't that great.

Even if you don't like Russia you should support them.

I don't agree wLukecan's statement, but your's about gays seems a bit strange considering Russia's stance towards them.

https://news.vice.com/article/photos-show-activists-being-attacked-and-arrested-at-gay-pride-parade-in-moscow

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-19293465

Gay parades banned in Moscow for 100 years

[Publicus]

Nothing new that Nato should support Turkey and that Putin must oppose Nato and be aggressive towards Turkey because it is in Nato.

The global right Putin is regularly funding in EU countries' elections are dangerously dismissing Nato.

Nato will fight and it will take the fight to Putin. Nato would fight in Syria and yes, in southern Turkey. In Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bulgaria, Romania, Chechnya, Ukraine, the Baltics, Poland if need be, yes. Nato commanded by the United States would take the fight to Putin, not wait to strike back at his aggression, i.e., air forces, missiles, ground forces, barebones navy.

Erdogan demonstrates that and it is therefore a point of critical significance.

The Baltic states are presently prepared to fight Putin's army back out of their territories. These states, Poland and others are ready to go at it now. Any sign of any little green men and it will get very big very fast. Erdogan and Nato are one.

Putin's armed forces couldn't get out of those geographic confines. Russian military itself would be surprised to be able to sustain ground forces in particular in Syria or southern Turkey, Armenia etc for any appreciable period of time. With the Bosphorus closed and air space in contention if not lost to Nato air forces, Putin would be hard pressed.

It's not only a question of fighting World War III all out boom zap all of Europe is gone and Eurasia too. There's a lot of in-between and Putin with his little green men should know that, but he does not. His fanboyz know even less.

Erdogan is going to drive Putin crazy.

[JHolmesJr]

Nothing new that Nato should support Turkey and that Putin must oppose Nato and be aggressive towards Turkey because it is in Nato.

The global right Putin is regularly funding in EU countries' elections are dangerously dismissing Nato.

Nato will fight and it will take the fight to Putin. Nato would fight in Syria and yes, in southern Turkey. In Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bulgaria, Romania, Chechnya, Ukraine, the Baltics, Poland if need be, yes. Nato commanded by the United States would take the fight to Putin, not wait to strike back at his aggression, i.e., air forces, missiles, ground forces, barebones navy.

Erdogan demonstrates that and it is therefore a point of critical significance.

The Baltic states are presently prepared to fight Putin's army back out of their territories. These states, Poland and others are ready to go at it now. Any sign of any little green men and it will get very big very fast. Erdogan and Nato are one.

Putin's armed forces couldn't get out of those geographic confines. Russian military itself would be surprised to be able to sustain ground forces in particular in Syria or southern Turkey, Armenia etc for any appreciable period of time. With the Bosphorus closed and air space in contention if not lost to Nato air forces, Putin would be hard pressed.

It's not only a question of fighting World War III all out boom zap all of Europe is gone and Eurasia too. There's a lot of in-between and Putin with his little green men should know that, but he does not. His fanboyz know even less.

Erdogan is going to drive Putin crazy.

You should turn these posts into pamphlets and have obama airdrop them on the russians…that'll drive them crazy.

[Publicus]

Putin's nuts are still ringing cause of Erdogan's good swift kick.

Erdogan is Putin's nemesis. Putin blew a fuse after he shat his pants when the Su-24 went down in flames.

Putin demanded Erdogan apologise and Erdogan gave him back a straightened up crescent middle finger.

One good punch in the nose and the bully retreats. Putin doesn't have the, er, gall to shoot at a Turkey AF plane. He'd have to shoot into Turkey to do it and that would be aggression. Putin's stuck between a rock and an Erdogan.

Putin should have stayed home where everyone there says sir.

[JHolmesJr]

To Erdy is human.

To forgive aint Putin.

Putin won't meet erdogan because he's scared what he might do to him…he doesn't trust his bare knuckle machismo to toe the diplomatic line.

He might give him a white phosphorus suppository…like he's been giving erdy's pariah brethren who have snuck into Idlib.

[simple1]

To Erdy is human.

To forgive aint Putin.

Putin won't meet erdogan because he's scared what he might do to him…he doesn't trust his bare knuckle machismo to toe the diplomatic line.

He might give him a white phosphorus suppository…like he's been giving erdy's pariah brethren who have snuck into Idlib.

Personally I find your support of Russian war crimes using weapons of war such as cluster bombs and white phosphorus in civilian areas revolting; as is your continuous avocation of genocide against the civilian population in areas controlled by Daesh.

To be frank I find little differentiation between your morality and that of Daesh.

Edited December 1, 2015 by simple1

[Scott]

An inflammatory post has been removed.

[cookee68]

every one knows that turkey is up isis arse, and a big supplier of weapons to them

[Publicus]

Winter has come to Russian-Turkey relations. And a long winter it's going to be.

This rearranges Russia-Turkey relations as it alters Russia-Turkey- China relations. It further draws Turkey and Nato closer.

Putin wanted Erdogan to pull out of supporting the armed rebellion against Assad. Putin expected too much and in doing so Putin discovered he isn't the only nasty arse-kicking sob on the planet.

[JHolmesJr]

To Erdy is human.

To forgive aint Putin.

Putin won't meet erdogan because he's scared what he might do to him…he doesn't trust his bare knuckle machismo to toe the diplomatic line.

He might give him a white phosphorus suppository…like he's been giving erdy's pariah brethren who have snuck into Idlib.

Personally I find your support of Russian war crimes using weapons of war such as cluster bombs and white phosphorus in civilian areas revolting; as is your continuous avocation of genocide against the civilian population in areas controlled by Daesh.

To be frank I find little differentiation between your morality and that of Daesh.

Strong words…all I can say is that Putin and his advisors seem to have a far better understanding of the enemy we are all facing.

You can play Henry Kissinger all you want but we are living in times that require extraordinary actions to save ourselves from total chaos on this planet.

Cheers

[Publicus]

To Erdy is human.

To forgive aint Putin.

Putin won't meet erdogan because he's scared what he might do to him…he doesn't trust his bare knuckle machismo to toe the diplomatic line.

He might give him a white phosphorus suppository…like he's been giving erdy's pariah brethren who have snuck into Idlib.

Strong words indeed.

Erdogan showed Putin what it is like to be on the other end of it. The receiving end.

Putin is a Chekist so it's the only thing he and his pals understand.

[JHolmesJr]

To Erdy is human.

To forgive aint Putin.

Putin won't meet erdogan because he's scared what he might do to him…he doesn't trust his bare knuckle machismo to toe the diplomatic line.

He might give him a white phosphorus suppository…like he's been giving erdy's pariah brethren who have snuck into Idlib.

Strong words indeed.

Erdogan showed Putin what it is like to be on the other end of it. The receiving end.

Putin is a Chekist so it's the only thing he and his pals understand.

In the spirit of the festive season, Putin is now showing Erdy that giving is even better than receiving.

[Publicus]

Neither of 'em are predictable, balanced, reliable.

US & Coalition with partners are proceeding carefully from this point. Which is also to say slowly, deliberately.

Main thing will be the US et al newest rules of engagement if Putin decides to fire off one of his S-400 (SA-21 Growler) missiles. Really clear rules of engagement. Sequential. Where the command authority to respond lies, i.e., in Washington or at Central Command (that is, for the ME).

[simple1]

To Erdy is human.

To forgive aint Putin.

Putin won't meet erdogan because he's scared what he might do to him…he doesn't trust his bare knuckle machismo to toe the diplomatic line.

He might give him a white phosphorus suppository…like he's been giving erdy's pariah brethren who have snuck into Idlib.

Personally I find your support of Russian war crimes using weapons of war such as cluster bombs and white phosphorus in civilian areas revolting; as is your continuous avocation of genocide against the civilian population in areas controlled by Daesh.

To be frank I find little differentiation between your morality and that of Daesh.

Strong words…all I can say is that Putin and his advisors seem to have a far better understanding of the enemy we are all facing.

You can play Henry Kissinger all you want but we are living in times that require extraordinary actions to save ourselves from total chaos on this planet.

Cheers

No idea why you negatively compare to Kissinger who was a practitioner of realpolitik, Putin is also a practitioner of realpolitik.

Perhaps you can articulate why war crimes against civilians indicate a better understanding of the enemy.

Currently Russia is identified as the greatest threat to worldwide stability, not Islamic extremism.

[mpa]

[Publicus]

Erdogan already stuffed him.

[StasD]

I will translate what Putin said: "We will punish Erdogan does not matter will Nato support him or not. But for NATO it should better keep beyond". Is it understandable now?

[Publicus]

Putin has Nato on the brain in addition to Erdogan driving him crazy. All Putin can see is a trail of fire from the sky to the ground.

Reports from Nato are that Putin is prepping his four airfields being used in Syria to receive another 100 to 120 RuAF fighters and bombers. Coming soon are also the Tos-1 multiple rocket firing platform used to level Grozny. What's often been called the heavy artillery.

More significantly for casualties whether military of civilian, Nato intelligence says Putin is bringing in the Buratino thermobaric warhead. This bomb detonates to create a cloud that transforms into a mass of fire and a crushing overpressure. It's a high tech huge firebomb that explodes down onto you while blasting everything around.

So for better and for worse, Daesh might begin to see something like what old-fashioned all out warfare is by a developed military. War without conscience.

US thus far has spent more than $2bn on its smart bomb and focused air campaign while Putin is going far beyond only a limited air campaign.

Putin just the other day got $2bn cash from Beijing by finally selling the current generation Sukhoi-35 fighter/bomber to the CCP after several years of stalling because Putin didn't want the CCP to have its hands on the technology. This shows Putin's already desperate for bucks while Nato is currently assessing how long his air forces can hold up without breaking down or wearing out. Or both.