New York Times puts gun control editorial on Page 1

[KarenBravo]

Unfortunately, both sides are right.

There obviously needs to be more gun control, but, criminals don't play by the rules. Therefore only the criminals will have guns.

The time for effective gun control is long past. There are just too many guns in the USA.

Maybe they should start controlling the ammunition? At least that has a shelf life.

The very least they can do is ban fully automatic weapons like assault rifles and machine pistols.

Edited December 5, 2015 by KarenBravo

[Credo]

With a few exceptions, no one is required to carry or own a gun.

Shooting someone is like having a car accident, even if you are right, you are in for some major inconvenience.

[arjunadawn]

Any Congressman or woman who even hints at restricting profits from weapons sales will have the NRA put a bullseye target on them. That will be the end of their political career. The American public will start chanting NRA pro gun slogans and the second amendment for many decades to come. America is no longer run 'by the people for the people' it is run by Corporate America for Corporate America. Guns are a $15 billion a year industry and it isn't going anywhere soon. Mass shootings are good for gun sales the last thing the NRA wants is any legislation that stops them. One mass shooting a day is good for profit margins.

Such cynical wrong headed nonsense ... First the NRA is not the major player it used to be in fighting those who would try to take away our 2nd Amendment Rights. Several other groups collectively have just as much clout. And the REAL RESISTANCE to Gun Grabbers is the close to 100 Million American Citizens who will fight tooth and nail against those who would attempt to confiscate guns and take our Constitutional Rights. Also the NRA is not associated with making profits from gun manufacturers ... The NRA and several other large gun enthusiast groups - combined represent many millions of gun owners - not gun producers.... As a result - members of the U.S. House of Representatives and the U.S. Senate listen very closely to the opinions of gun owners and those who defend the U.S. Constitution... America is a Representative Republic and voters decide who gets elected to REPRESENT their wishes ... And no sane member of Congress is going to go too far afield and fight the people they represent .... It is the voice of the people - not the voice of the NRA or other gun groups that have the clout to keep Gun Control under wraps...

Your silly misconception is what drives gun sales .. it is not mass shootings ... it is Hussain Obama who drives gun sales... IT HAS BEEN PROVEN ... Every time President Obama spouts off about Gun Control -- Gun sales skyrocket - a graph can be plotting depicting Obama's speeches about Gun Control and Gun Sales ... Americans are not going to allow the government to confiscate guns ...

It may come as a surprise to you but Gun Ownership Rights are not related to sporting use, hunting or target practice ...and even self protection is not the primary motivation to own guns... The provision in the 2nd Amendment to Bear Arms is to protect the citizenry against a ROGUE GOVERNMENT ... which is what we have today in America... The unrelenting drive of President Obama to confiscate guns is to have free reign to dominate and subdue the American population. And Obama's seething anger at this issue is that he cannot find a way to take away guns and make the American population defenseless against his plans....

Before a rogue government could possibly confiscate the guns from nearly 100 Million Americans who own nearly 300 Millions guns - it would take an occupying army of at least 10 to 20 times bigger than the American Army is now - even counting the National Guard... therefore it is NOT going to happen.

So you see the NRA is not the bogey man out making millions from gun sales... The NRA and other large gun groups rake in tens of millions of dollars from American gun owners who are vowed and intent on NEVER EVER allowing anyone to take away the right to bear arms...

Obama is angry because he realizes the futility of a plan he once thought would be a knock dead cinch ...

You illustrate my point beautifully.

Actually, no, he rebuts your "point beautifully." Any person who assigns a value to others that they seek to profit off mass murder disqualifies themselves as having no real contributions in the public space. I too have grave character doubts about the motivations of those who espouse gun control but people like me try to check our disdain and wrap our contempt around the issue offered, the means of the politics, and the behaviors as a political movement to enact gun control- deception, crisis manipulation, fear mongering, etc. You actually illustrate the point in opposition to you, beautifully, in fact.

[chuckd]

It's just the same old BS arguments against any form of gun control time and time again.

Until the gun control populace comes up with some new positions, the same old BS arguments can be used.

For all you whiners (Not you, NMS) out there, precisely what bill would you propose be passed to solve the problem?

Try to be specific. Generalizations will get you nowhere, as you all must know by now.

Anybody?

I'll bite.

For a start, put this back.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban

Fantastic idea.

In 2013 the FBI Crime Report indicates there were 285 murders using rifles, of any kind.

However, during 2013 this same report shows there were a total of 428 murders with hammers or clubs as the primary weapon of choice.

It had little impact before but maybe, perhaps it will work wonders this time.

Try again. I was hoping for some fresh new ideas.

[chuckd]

I saw a comment on the news before.

The 2nd amendment is just that... An Amendment.

Whats to stop it being amended again?

The fact that it would take 38 states to ratify a new amendment.

I seriously doubt you could get 5 states that would even ratify an amendment doing away with private gun ownership.

I'm not even certain you could get one to do so.

[chuckd]

Unfortunately, both sides are right.

There obviously needs to be more gun control, but, criminals don't play by the rules. Therefore only the criminals will have guns.

The time for effective gun control is long past. There are just too many guns in the USA.

Maybe they should start controlling the ammunition? At least that has a shelf life.

The very least they can do is ban fully automatic weapons like assault rifles and machine pistols.

Automatic weapons are already banned for all practical purposes. It takes a very expensive federal license to even purchase one.

Only the bad guys have AK-47s.

[notmyself]

It's just the same old BS arguments against any form of gun control time and time again.

Until the gun control populace comes up with some new positions, the same old BS arguments can be used.

For all you whiners (Not you, NMS) out there, precisely what bill would you propose be passed to solve the problem?

Try to be specific. Generalizations will get you nowhere, as you all must know by now.

Anybody?

I'll bite.

For a start, put this back.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban

Fantastic idea.

In 2013 the FBI Crime Report indicates there were 285 murders using rifles, of any kind.

However, during 2013 this same report shows there were a total of 428 murders with hammers or clubs as the primary weapon of choice.

It had little impact before but maybe, perhaps it will work wonders this time.

Try again. I was hoping for some fresh new ideas.

Pulled directly off of the NRA website I would guess.

If hammers/ clubs are just as bad then less reason not to restrict guns.

[chuckd]

Pulled directly off of the NRA website I would guess.

If hammers/ clubs are just as bad then less reason not to restrict guns.

Nope. Went directly to the source.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2009-2013.xls

[up-country_sinclair]

Your silly misconception is what drives gun sales .. it is not mass shootings ... it is Hussain Obama who drives gun sales... IT HAS BEEN PROVEN ... Every time President Obama spouts off about Gun Control -- Gun sales skyrocket - a graph can be plotting depicting Obama's speeches about Gun Control and Gun Sales ... Americans are not going to allow the government to confiscate guns ...

So, to summarize, silly American gun owners keep buying more guns after the president speaks even though Americans will never allow the government to take their guns.

Just out of curiosity do you refer to President Bush as Walker Bush? President Clinton as Jefferson Clinton? President Reagan as Wilson Reagan?

[Chicog]

Fantastic idea.

In 2013 the FBI Crime Report indicates there were 285 murders using rifles, of any kind.

However, during 2013 this same report shows there were a total of 428 murders with hammers or clubs as the primary weapon of choice.

It had little impact before but maybe, perhaps it will work wonders this time.

Try again. I was hoping for some fresh new ideas.

Here's a fresh one: Put it back and leave it there.

As explained above, there has been no comprehensive nationwide study done since 2004. However, the Police Executive Research Forum reported several findings in "Guns and Crime: Breaking New Ground by Focusing on the Local Impact" in 2010. Since the ban’s expiration in 2004:

• 37 percent of police agencies who responded to this survey reported that they’ve seen noticeable increases in the use of assault weapons by criminals.

[beechguy]

It's just the same old BS arguments against any form of gun control time and time again.

Until the gun control populace comes up with some new positions, the same old BS arguments can be used.

For all you whiners (Not you, NMS) out there, precisely what bill would you propose be passed to solve the problem?

Try to be specific. Generalizations will get you nowhere, as you all must know by now.

Anybody?

I'll bite.

For a start, put this back.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban

As to be expected, it was written by people who didn't understand the problem. One could have a perfectly legal .223 caliber weapon, but if you changed a stock or added certain accessories, it became an assault weapon by their standards. Really? Adding a forearm or changing a shoulder stock increased the muzzle velocity, or made it more dangerous some how?

Another piece of legislation I have pointed to several times, is the recent changes in Colorado, again based on faulty logic and misinformation. Currently, they have millions of dollars sitting unused, about a dozen open positions, because they attacked a problem that didn't exist. They listened to Obama, and other politicians, more interested in politics, than solutions.

The ignorant are like monkeys being distracted by shiny objects. The Navy Shipyard Shooter, used a 12 Ga. pump action shotgun, that had a 7 round capacity, to kill 13 people. A 911 call was made 1 minute and 36 seconds after the first shot, approximately 8 minutes later, 10 people were dead or dying. He didn't need a rifle, holding numerous rounds. Once the shooting starts, the police aren't likely to arrive in time to save you. That's why, for a while now, police and security officials are saying to take action, if one finds themselves in an active shooter situation.

[NeverSure]

Unfortunately, both sides are right.

There obviously needs to be more gun control, but, criminals don't play by the rules. Therefore only the criminals will have guns.

The time for effective gun control is long past. There are just too many guns in the USA.

Maybe they should start controlling the ammunition? At least that has a shelf life.

The very least they can do is ban fully automatic weapons like assault rifles and machine pistols.

"Unfortunately, both sides are right.

There obviously needs to be more gun control, but, criminals don't play by the rules. Therefore only the criminals will have guns."

I agree with parts of that.

"The time for effective gun control is long past. There are just too many guns in the USA.

Maybe they should start controlling the ammunition? At least that has a shelf life."

Ammunition has an indefinite shelf life if properly stored. People are still shooting ammo that was manufactured for WWII. Hoarding of ammo has become a national sport and store shelves have sold out immediately ever since Obama was elected. Also, millions of people reload their own ammo and they have gobs of supplies i.e. powder, primers and bullets. Count me among them as reloads can be tuned to the gun making it more accurate and the cost of reloading is about 1/3 of the price of new ammunition. It's also fun and relaxing to do.

"The very least they can do is ban fully automatic weapons like assault rifles and machine pistols."

That's already the case. The manufacture and sale of assault rifles and pistols has been illegal since the 1990's. Only those who are willing to get a very difficult and expensive federal license, and then buy specific liability insurance if they can find it are allowed to own an assault rifle.

Only those assault rifles which were in private hands before the federal assault rifle ban can be privately owned. That causes the prices to skyrocket even after a person has a license and tries to find a gun to buy. Those guns are called "pre-ban" and will cost you about US$30,000 when you find one for sale.

Next, if you want to shoot it you have to feed it. The rate of fire of an M-16 is 800 rounds per minute. At 40 cents per round it's going to cost you $320 per minute to pull the trigger. That's certainly not for everyone.

Cheers.

PS None of these mass shootings (that I know of) have been done with this type of weapon. They aren't the problem.

[notmyself]

Pulled directly off of the NRA website I would guess.

If hammers/ clubs are just as bad then less reason not to restrict guns.

Nope. Went directly to the source.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2009-2013.xls

Ergo: No reason not to restrict guns.

[beechguy]

Pulled directly off of the NRA website I would guess.

If hammers/ clubs are just as bad then less reason not to restrict guns.

Nope. Went directly to the source.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2009-2013.xls

Ergo: No reason not to restrict guns.

Correct, we need to restrict nutjobs, and Radical Islamic Jihadists, etc.

[beechguy]

Pulled directly off of the NRA website I would guess.

If hammers/ clubs are just as bad then less reason not to restrict guns.

Nope. Went directly to the source.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2009-2013.xls

Nope, I went directly to the problem:

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1449334901.184443.jpg

As I said, monkeys attracted to shiny objects. Let's concentrate on those scary looking rifles, and ignore the root causes.

For the record, semi-automatic firearms have been available for decades.

[notmyself]

As I said, monkeys attracted to shiny objects. Let's concentrate on those scary looking rifles, and ignore the root causes.

The root cause is abject stupidity brought about by unsubstantiated beliefs.

More on the subject......

Edited December 5, 2015 by notmyself

[CWMcMurray]

[beechguy]

As I said, monkeys attracted to shiny objects. Let's concentrate on those scary looking rifles, and ignore the root causes.

The root cause is abject stupidity brought about by unsubstantiated beliefs.

More on the subject......

And you reinforced my point, by presenting an idiot.

Many of us would support sensible changes in government policy, including gun control, but our legislators are too ignorant and incompetent. This latest effort was simply political grandstanding, and the Democrats should be ashamed. Terror/No-Fly watch list restrictions, on the surface make sense, until you find out how many children are on the list, never mind the 72 employees working for Dept. of Homeland Security that are supposedly on that list. These so called (erroneously) assault weapons bans, would not have any affect. Note the example of the Navy Shipyard Shooter, using a simple, pump action shotgun. Health care did need reform, but again, Obamacare is a piss poor effort. That is why so many have no confidence in this President, the government in general.

[TEFLKrabi]

You don't need to try and reclaim all the guns, which we know is impossible. Make them obsolete by banning the sale of ammunition.

[chuckd]

Fantastic idea.

In 2013 the FBI Crime Report indicates there were 285 murders using rifles, of any kind.

However, during 2013 this same report shows there were a total of 428 murders with hammers or clubs as the primary weapon of choice.

It had little impact before but maybe, perhaps it will work wonders this time.

Try again. I was hoping for some fresh new ideas.

Here's a fresh one: Put it back and leave it there.

As explained above, there has been no comprehensive nationwide study done since 2004. However, the Police Executive Research Forum reported several findings in "Guns and Crime: Breaking New Ground by Focusing on the Local Impact" in 2010. Since the ban’s expiration in 2004:

• 37 percent of police agencies who responded to this survey reported that they’ve seen noticeable increases in the use of assault weapons by criminals.

Let me get my head wrapped around this idea.

You are suggesting we ban the sale of so called assault weapons so nobody can buy them?

Yep, sounds like a sure fire method to keep so called assault weapons out of the hands of the criminals.

I can certainly understand the logic behind this little scheme. Forcing them to turn to the Mexican drug cartels for the weapons is a devious plot indeed.

[mpa]

It's the mentality that needs to change. It's all about culture isn't it? Therefore forget it.

[KarenBravo]

Switzerland and Canada have very high gun ownership, yet, mass shootings don't happen so often there.

Maybe it is US citizens that are the problem?

[lannarebirth]

Unfortunately, both sides are right.

There obviously needs to be more gun control, but, criminals don't play by the rules. Therefore only the criminals will have guns.

The time for effective gun control is long past. There are just too many guns in the USA.

Maybe they should start controlling the ammunition? At least that has a shelf life.

The very least they can do is ban fully automatic weapons like assault rifles and machine pistols.

Automatic weapons are already banned for all practical purposes. It takes a very expensive federal license to even purchase one.

Only the bad guys have AK-47s.

Legal:

http://www.grandviewoutdoors.com/guns/new-trigger-makes-ar-15s-nearly-full-auto/

[notmyself]

You don't need to try and reclaim all the guns, which we know is impossible. Make them obsolete by banning the sale of ammunition.

But people could still club someone to death with an empty revolver.

[chuckd]

You don't need to try and reclaim all the guns, which we know is impossible. Make them obsolete by banning the sale of ammunition.

But people could still club someone to death with an empty revolver.

...or that ubiquitous hammer.

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed.

[simple1]

Pulled directly off of the NRA website I would guess.

If hammers/ clubs are just as bad then less reason not to restrict guns.

Nope. Went directly to the source.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2009-2013.xls

2013 - 2,079 homicide by weapons 'other guns / firearm not stated" so the numbers of death by 'rifles' must be open to dispute as law enforcement do not have definitive figures by gun type.

You're knocking back every thought / legislation regards gun control. You may have posted before, but if you don't mind do you have a personal preference for type of legislation to try & manage gun ownership in an endeavour over time to minimise mass shooting causalities?

[Seastallion]

Any Congressman or woman who even hints at restricting profits from weapons sales will have the NRA put a bullseye target on them. That will be the end of their political career. The American public will start chanting NRA pro gun slogans and the second amendment for many decades to come. America is no longer run 'by the people for the people' it is run by Corporate America for Corporate America. Guns are a $15 billion a year industry and it isn't going anywhere soon. Mass shootings are good for gun sales the last thing the NRA wants is any legislation that stops them. One mass shooting a day is good for profit margins.

Such cynical wrong headed nonsense ... First the NRA is not the major player it used to be in fighting those who would try to take away our 2nd Amendment Rights. Several other groups collectively have just as much clout. And the REAL RESISTANCE to Gun Grabbers is the close to 100 Million American Citizens who will fight tooth and nail against those who would attempt to confiscate guns and take our Constitutional Rights. Also the NRA is not associated with making profits from gun manufacturers ... The NRA and several other large gun enthusiast groups - combined represent many millions of gun owners - not gun producers.... As a result - members of the U.S. House of Representatives and the U.S. Senate listen very closely to the opinions of gun owners and those who defend the U.S. Constitution... America is a Representative Republic and voters decide who gets elected to REPRESENT their wishes ... And no sane member of Congress is going to go too far afield and fight the people they represent .... It is the voice of the people - not the voice of the NRA or other gun groups that have the clout to keep Gun Control under wraps...

Your silly misconception is what drives gun sales .. it is not mass shootings ... it is Hussain Obama who drives gun sales... IT HAS BEEN PROVEN ... Every time President Obama spouts off about Gun Control -- Gun sales skyrocket - a graph can be plotting depicting Obama's speeches about Gun Control and Gun Sales ... Americans are not going to allow the government to confiscate guns ...

It may come as a surprise to you but Gun Ownership Rights are not related to sporting use, hunting or target practice ...and even self protection is not the primary motivation to own guns... The provision in the 2nd Amendment to Bear Arms is to protect the citizenry against a ROGUE GOVERNMENT ... which is what we have today in America... The unrelenting drive of President Obama to confiscate guns is to have free reign to dominate and subdue the American population. And Obama's seething anger at this issue is that he cannot find a way to take away guns and make the American population defenseless against his plans....

Before a rogue government could possibly confiscate the guns from nearly 100 Million Americans who own nearly 300 Millions guns - it would take an occupying army of at least 10 to 20 times bigger than the American Army is now - even counting the National Guard... therefore it is NOT going to happen.

So you see the NRA is not the bogey man out making millions from gun sales... The NRA and other large gun groups rake in tens of millions of dollars from American gun owners who are vowed and intent on NEVER EVER allowing anyone to take away the right to bear arms...

Obama is angry because he realizes the futility of a plan he once thought would be a knock dead cinch ...

" it is Hussain Obama who drives gun sales... IT HAS BEEN PROVEN ... Every time President Obama spouts off about Gun Control -- Gun sales skyrocket - a graph can be plotting depicting Obama's speeches about Gun Control and Gun Sales .."

Great point! Your proof stands out as compelling.

Compelling laughter, that is. Did it occur to you that your graph would also show those same spikes correlate with mass shootings, and that is why Obama "spouts off"?

[GOLDBUGGY]

Any Congressman or woman who even hints at restricting profits from weapons sales will have the NRA put a bullseye target on them. That will be the end of their political career. The American public will start chanting NRA pro gun slogans and the second amendment for many decades to come. America is no longer run 'by the people for the people' it is run by Corporate America for Corporate America. Guns are a $15 billion a year industry and it isn't going anywhere soon. Mass shootings are good for gun sales the last thing the NRA wants is any legislation that stops them. One mass shooting a day is good for profit margins.

Such cynical wrong headed nonsense ... First the NRA is not the major player it used to be in fighting those who would try to take away our 2nd Amendment Rights. Several other groups collectively have just as much clout. And the REAL RESISTANCE to Gun Grabbers is the close to 100 Million American Citizens who will fight tooth and nail against those who would attempt to confiscate guns and take our Constitutional Rights. Also the NRA is not associated with making profits from gun manufacturers ... The NRA and several other large gun enthusiast groups - combined represent many millions of gun owners - not gun producers.... As a result - members of the U.S. House of Representatives and the U.S. Senate listen very closely to the opinions of gun owners and those who defend the U.S. Constitution... America is a Representative Republic and voters decide who gets elected to REPRESENT their wishes ... And no sane member of Congress is going to go too far afield and fight the people they represent .... It is the voice of the people - not the voice of the NRA or other gun groups that have the clout to keep Gun Control under wraps...

Your silly misconception is what drives gun sales .. it is not mass shootings ... it is Hussain Obama who drives gun sales... IT HAS BEEN PROVEN ... Every time President Obama spouts off about Gun Control -- Gun sales skyrocket - a graph can be plotting depicting Obama's speeches about Gun Control and Gun Sales ... Americans are not going to allow the government to confiscate guns ...

It may come as a surprise to you but Gun Ownership Rights are not related to sporting use, hunting or target practice ...and even self protection is not the primary motivation to own guns... The provision in the 2nd Amendment to Bear Arms is to protect the citizenry against a ROGUE GOVERNMENT ... which is what we have today in America... The unrelenting drive of President Obama to confiscate guns is to have free reign to dominate and subdue the American population. And Obama's seething anger at this issue is that he cannot find a way to take away guns and make the American population defenseless against his plans....

Before a rogue government could possibly confiscate the guns from nearly 100 Million Americans who own nearly 300 Millions guns - it would take an occupying army of at least 10 to 20 times bigger than the American Army is now - even counting the National Guard... therefore it is NOT going to happen.

So you see the NRA is not the bogey man out making millions from gun sales... The NRA and other large gun groups rake in tens of millions of dollars from American gun owners who are vowed and intent on NEVER EVER allowing anyone to take away the right to bear arms...

Obama is angry because he realizes the futility of a plan he once thought would be a knock dead cinch ...

It is not as difficult to enact gun control as you may think. The first thing the government has to do is give the public fare warning. They let them know that these new laws are coming into force and anyone who holds a gun that is not "Registered" is illegal and can be subject to a fine or imprisonment. Since most people don't like breaking the law, they turned there guns into the Police Station. The ones who had a need for a gun, for hunting for example, got them "Registered" paid the Registration Fee, and kept them locked up in a special cabinet or at least out of sight with a trigger lock.

The 2nd Amendment does not clarify the "Rights to Bear Arms". It just says the Citizen have this right. But I think it is best described by the Roman Politician Marcus Tullius Cicero (106-43 B.C.) who wrote that bearing arms for self-defense of the individual and for public defense against tyranny was there right. So I think he describes this best.

The Problem with Gun Control is it doesn't keep the guns out of the hands of the criminals, who use them in the wrong way. They will always be able to buy guns. Just like they will always be able to buy illegal drugs. It just keeps guns out of the hands of mostly honest people. Who may keep a gun for self-protection for themselves and family.

Sure! With Gun Control Shooting Deaths go down, but not the Murder Rate. This has been the main objective to Gun Control from the NRA. That guns don't kill people. People kill people. Lets face facts here. If you are going to kill the little woman for cheating on you not having that hand gun in your desk drawer makes little different to you. A Knife or Poison will still accomplish the same thing.

Or a House Robbery. Perhaps if everyone is allowed to keep a gun in there house this acts as a deterrent. But now with Gun Control 3 Hooligans can break into your house, beat you to a pulp, rape your wife and daughter, rob you blind, and walk away to do this for another victim. No recordable shooting deaths there, are there? But personally I would sooner prefer to fill them full of lead and add 3 shooting deaths to the book.

Do they need some form of Gun Control? Well I don't see the sense in allowing some guy to buy a sub-machine gun who just got out of a Psycho Hospital. Or anyone a sub-machine gun without strict control for that matter. Or selling a gun to a guy who has a Criminal Record for violence, as in Rape or Murder, or Robbery. But taking the right away of a Law Abiding Citizen, who merely wants to keep a gun to protect his property and family, is wrong. It is as wrong today as it was 2,000 year ago.

My Father kept a Loaded Shot Gun in his Bedroom closet for as long as I could remember. As kids we were never allowed to go in there so none of us blew our heads off. When Gun Control came in I had a talk to him about it as he was breaking the law. He didn't care. As far as he was concerned it was his right to be able to do that. In all these years I can't say I ever disagreed with him either.

[DM07]

The "hammer"- argument?

Again?

Seriously?

Pathetic!