New York Times puts gun control editorial on Page 1

[Lampang2]

Any Congressman or woman who even hints at restricting profits from weapons sales will have the NRA put a bullseye target on them. That will be the end of their political career. The American public will start chanting NRA pro gun slogans and the second amendment for many decades to come. America is no longer run 'by the people for the people' it is run by Corporate America for Corporate America. Guns are a $15 billion a year industry and it isn't going anywhere soon. Mass shootings are good for gun sales the last thing the NRA wants is any legislation that stops them. One mass shooting a day is good for profit margins.

True.

In the US companies have the right to vote.

Also the right to pretend having emotions and being hurt.

Human robots.

At the same time, completely ruthless.

[Chicog]

Chicog, on 09 Dec 2015 - 16:32, said:

SgtRock, on 09 Dec 2015 - 15:52, said:

You not believe me ?

Registered gun users US over 100,000,000. Registered gun users UK 1,000,000.

30000 US deaths annually / 100,000,000 = 0.0003. UK 50 deaths annually / 1,000.000 = 0.00005

For all the screaming and shouting about the lax gun laws in the US. There is not a great deal in it considering the UK's draconian gun laws.

An interesting attempt at twisting statistics, but the fact is that with five times the population you have 600 times the number of gun deaths.

The total number of guns is irrelevant, considering you have people like this fetishist:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-guns-stockpile-insight-idUSKBN0TM2LU20151204

Twisting stats ?

I never mentioned total numbers of guns. I used figures for registered gun users. If I was to use the total number of guns, the figures would work out even worse for the UK.

Just for your info. I'm a Brit.

It doesn't matter what you are.

You are simply taking a singular statistical aspect that has little relevance.

How about looking at how many guns are in public circulation in each country?

(You can start with registered ones if you want).

Edited December 9, 2015 by Chicog

[MiKT]

jpinx, on 09 Dec 2015 - 15:19, said:

SgtRock, on 09 Dec 2015 - 15:09, said:

simple1, on 09 Dec 2015 - 14:54, said:simple1, on 09 Dec 2015 - 14:54, said:

Whilst it may be off topic would it not be more useful to compare homicide rates per 100,000 head of population.

1 homicide pa. per 100,000 in the UK

4.5 homicides p.a. per 100,000 in the US

Make the same comparison with registered gun owners and the UK actually has a bigger problem.

Despite having one of the most restrictive gun laws in the world.

Sources? Figures? Vague statements about vague comparisons hold no weight....

You not believe me ?

Registered gun users US over 100,000,000. Registered gun users UK 1,000,000.

30000 US deaths annually / 100,000,000 = 0.0003. UK 50 deaths annually / 1,000.000 = 0.00005

For all the screaming and shouting about the lax gun laws in the US. There is not a great deal in it considering the UK's draconian gun laws.

ahhh, the old lies, dammed lies and statistics ploy,

63,489,234 UK population in mid 2014, gun deaths/year = 50 = 1 per 1,269,785 head of population

332,489,234 US pop same period, gun deaths/year = 30,000 = 1 per 10,750 hop

So the US has 118 times more gun death per head of population than the UK

or, as one other poster has put it, the US has 600 times as many deaths per year than the UK

The fact that the US is 118 times more dangerous than the UK is hardly something to be boasting about.

Tea break over, back on your head.

[SgtRock]

Chicog, on 09 Dec 2015 - 17:10, said:

SgtRock, on 09 Dec 2015 - 16:45, said:

Chicog, on 09 Dec 2015 - 16:32, said:Chicog, on 09 Dec 2015 - 16:32, said:

SgtRock, on 09 Dec 2015 - 15:52, said:SgtRock, on 09 Dec 2015 - 15:52, said:

You not believe me ?

Registered gun users US over 100,000,000. Registered gun users UK 1,000,000.

30000 US deaths annually / 100,000,000 = 0.0003. UK 50 deaths annually / 1,000.000 = 0.00005

For all the screaming and shouting about the lax gun laws in the US. There is not a great deal in it considering the UK's draconian gun laws.

An interesting attempt at twisting statistics, but the fact is that with five times the population you have 600 times the number of gun deaths.

The total number of guns is irrelevant, considering you have people like this fetishist:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-guns-stockpile-insight-idUSKBN0TM2LU20151204

Twisting stats ?

I never mentioned total numbers of guns. I used figures for registered gun users. If I was to use the total number of guns, the figures would work out even worse for the UK.

Just for your info. I'm a Brit.

It doesn't matter what you are.

You are simply taking a singular statistical aspect that has little relevance.

How about looking at how many guns are in public circulation in each country?

(You can start with registered ones if you want).

Approx registered guns in US 200,000,000 / 30000 deaths = 0.00015.

Approx registered guns in the UK 1,500,000 / 50 deaths = 0.000033

Shake the numbers anyway you want.

[up2u2]

Approx registered guns in US 200,000,000 / 30000 deaths = 0.00015.

Approx registered guns in the UK 1,500,000 / 50 deaths = 0.000033

Shake the numbers anyway you want.

So the US has an increase in gun deaths of 450% when compared to the UK.

[Publicus]

Interesting...I read the San Bernardino service center re-opened yesterday and to protect it, they placed guards (with guns no less) at the entrances...not people holding up copies of the New York Times editorial. I wonder why?

The ones with the guns don't read much if at all. Never very good at it actually.

Legal or illegal gunslingers alike.

[KarenBravo]

Chicog, on 09 Dec 2015 - 17:10, said:

SgtRock, on 09 Dec 2015 - 16:45, said:

Chicog, on 09 Dec 2015 - 16:32, said:Chicog, on 09 Dec 2015 - 16:32, said:

An interesting attempt at twisting statistics, but the fact is that with five times the population you have 600 times the number of gun deaths.

The total number of guns is irrelevant, considering you have people like this fetishist:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-guns-stockpile-insight-idUSKBN0TM2LU20151204

Twisting stats ?

I never mentioned total numbers of guns. I used figures for registered gun users. If I was to use the total number of guns, the figures would work out even worse for the UK.

Just for your info. I'm a Brit.

It doesn't matter what you are.

You are simply taking a singular statistical aspect that has little relevance.

How about looking at how many guns are in public circulation in each country?

(You can start with registered ones if you want).

Approx registered guns in US 200,000,000 / 30000 deaths = 0.00015.

Approx registered guns in the UK 1,500,000 / 50 deaths = 0.000033

Shake the numbers anyway you want.

How about common sense?

It's obvious that the US has a greater gun problem than the UK.

[jpinx]

Please read this before commenting further about whether there should be gun controls in USA.....

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-35001192

[notmyself]

What gets me is the endless stream of BS from those with a gun fetish. It is the same as talking to Creationists.

[55Jay]

What gets me is the endless stream of BS from those with a gun fetish. It is the same as talking to Creationists.

I don't have a gun fetish and I feel the same way about the endless stream of BS from those with a gun ban fetish.

[mgjackson69]

What does 'A well regulated militia' mean?

What does *the people* mean, in the context of the US Constitution?

Time and time again the US Supreme Court has upheld that *the people* refers to individual rights. Why should the Second Amendment be any different?

"militia" in the context of the times the Founding Fathers lived in was nothing to do with "The National Guard"....the militia is the citizenry.

Let the gun-grabbers gut the Second Amendment...then see how long it takes them to get to the rest of the Bill of Rights.

[mgjackson69]

Interesting...I read the San Bernardino service center re-opened yesterday and to protect it, they placed guards (with guns no less) at the entrances...not people holding up copies of the New York Times editorial. I wonder why?

The ones with the guns don't read much if at all. Never very good at it actually.

Legal or illegal gunslingers alike.

What are you basing that factoid on?

This gun owner is college educated and has worked in the telecommunications field as a software engineer for 26 years.

You suppose I cannot read?

[notmyself]

What does 'A well regulated militia' mean?

What does *the people* mean, in the context of the US Constitution?

Time and time again the US Supreme Court has upheld that *the people* refers to individual rights. Why should the Second Amendment be any different?

"militia" in the context of the times the Founding Fathers lived in was nothing to do with "The National Guard"....the militia is the citizenry.

Let the gun-grabbers gut the Second Amendment...then see how long it takes them to get to the rest of the Bill of Rights.

Allowing crazy people and terrorists to buy guns is not exactly well regulated is it?

[55Jay]

Interesting...I read the San Bernardino service center re-opened yesterday and to protect it, they placed guards (with guns no less) at the entrances...not people holding up copies of the New York Times editorial. I wonder why?

The ones with the guns don't read much if at all. Never very good at it actually.

Legal or illegal gunslingers alike.

What are you basing that factoid on?

This gun owner is college educated and has worked in the telecommunications field as a software engineer for 26 years.

You suppose I cannot read?

Sorry, but if you are a gun owners, you are a mentally ill "nutter" by default. Some of them really go off the deep end and equate you to a red neck. They really are pretty pathetic.

[chuckd]

jpinx, on 09 Dec 2015 - 15:19, said:

Sources? Figures? Vague statements about vague comparisons hold no weight....

You not believe me ?

Registered gun users US over 100,000,000. Registered gun users UK 1,000,000.

30000 US deaths annually / 100,000,000 = 0.0003. UK 50 deaths annually / 1,000.000 = 0.00005

For all the screaming and shouting about the lax gun laws in the US. There is not a great deal in it considering the UK's draconian gun laws.

ahhh, the old lies, dammed lies and statistics ploy,

63,489,234 UK population in mid 2014, gun deaths/year = 50 = 1 per 1,269,785 head of population

332,489,234 US pop same period, gun deaths/year = 30,000 = 1 per 10,750 hop

So the US has 118 times more gun death per head of population than the UK

or, as one other poster has put it, the US has 600 times as many deaths per year than the UK

The fact that the US is 118 times more dangerous than the UK is hardly something to be boasting about.

Tea break over, back on your head.

"63,489,234 UK population in mid 2014, gun deaths/year = 50 = 1 per 1,269,785 head of population

Is this 50 per year total considering all types of deaths?

i.e. murder, suicide, accidental, etc.

[Publicus]

Here's the reason for the mess about guns in USA......

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-35047899

Interesting article. It prompted me to look up a couple of things.

I found an article that lists the top thirty best handgun manufacturers. The top ten are...

1. Sig Sauer - Switzerland

2. Smith & Wesson - USA

3. Beretta - Italy

4. Springfield Armory, Inc. - USA

5. Sturm, Ruger and Co., Inc. - USA

6. Colt's Manufacturing Co. - USA

7. Glock ges.m.b.H - Austria

8. Heckler and Koch - Germany

9. Walther Arms - Germany

10. Browning Arms Co. - USA

Interestingly, five in the US and five in Europe. It seems to be big business all over.

http://www.ranker.com/list/best-handgun-brands/werner-brandes

There is a bloodbath of difference between the United States and Europe.

Gun Deaths in the United States:

More than 30,000 people are killed by firearms each year in this country

More than 30 people are shot and murdered each day

1/2 of them are between the ages of 18 and 35

http://heedinggodscall.org/content/pfctoolkit-10

• • Population of the United States is 315 million.
  • Population of the European Union is 508 million.
  • (Not all countries of Europe are member states of the European Union.)

Firearms and Violent Deaths in Europe

Analysis of the Linkages Between Gun Ownership, Firearms Legislation and Violent Death

Analysis of the WHO data indicates that between 2000 and 2012, European countries registered more than 12,000 homicides committed using a firearm.

This comes down to 1,500 gun homicides per year in Europe and 1,000 gun homicides per year within the EU. The WHO data indicate that a gun was used in approximately 20% of all successful homicide attempts in Europe.

This is a rather low proportion, given that firearms are the most widely used weapons for homicides on a global level (41%).41

http://www.vlaamsvredesinstituut.eu/sites/vlaamsvredesinstituut.eu/files/files/reports/firearms_and_violent_deaths_in_europe_web.pdf

Gun Homicides (average annually):

Less than 50: Japan

Less than 150: Germany, Italy, France, etc.

Less than 200: Canada

More than 10,000: USA

Source: IANSA (International Action Network on Small Arms of the United Nations)

Concerning the Second Amendment which the far right abuses both brazenly and consistently, most Americans in the British colonies did not have firearms. During the two or so years prior to the Declaration of Independence in 1776, colonists bought firearms in mass amounts from Europe. Sympathetic Europeans such as the Prussian Baron von Steuben joined the American cause to teach firearms to the Continental Army of General George Washington, who eventually appointed von Steuben a major-general in it (two stars).

Firearms possession in the USA became common after the Civil War when combatants of both sides took their weapons with them. Still, the Springfield Armory established in Massachusetts by General Washington and von Steuben to supply arms and ammunition, (item 4 in the quoted post) remained the premier firearms manufacturer throughout the 19th century with only some competition, such as from Samuel Colt.

Europeans have had little or nothing to do with creating the rightwingnut gun worship that has developed post WW2 in the USA. Organisations such as the NRA have institutionalised the culture of the extremist gun nut. NRA is the leading obstructionist force in the USA to majority supported gun improvement laws. Most laws on the books have the NRA's bloody fingerprints all over them, which is why there are so many ineffective existing laws.

[Publicus]

Interesting...I read the San Bernardino service center re-opened yesterday and to protect it, they placed guards (with guns no less) at the entrances...not people holding up copies of the New York Times editorial. I wonder why?

The ones with the guns don't read much if at all. Never very good at it actually.

Legal or illegal gunslingers alike.

What are you basing that factoid on?

This gun owner is college educated and has worked in the telecommunications field as a software engineer for 26 years.

You suppose I cannot read?

The quoted poster referred to guards with firearms stationed at entrances. The quoted poster asked why the stationed armed guards (or perhaps others) were not instead holding up the NYT gun editorial on its page one. Obviously a rhetorical and a sarcastic question.

The poster got the kind of reply he invited. So others might well consider the tone of the nestled post, its nature and the facts of the two posts. In other words only a few people who should know better would commit the error to take personally anything so remote from their own reality.

This gun owner btw has a master degree with 50 years experience as a professional. Not an NRA member nor would he ever be one because of the NRA crackpot leadership. AARP member yes because they are radically opposite in every way. No one in his right mind could claim the two are simply the same kind of lobbying groups in the congress.

[notmyself]

What gets me is the endless stream of BS from those with a gun fetish. It is the same as talking to Creationists.

I don't have a gun fetish and I feel the same way about the endless stream of BS from those with a gun ban fetish.

Which is a perfect example.

Ask that guns not be sold to people with mental problems and terrorists. Quite a reasonable request one would have thought. What is the answer? DON'T TAKE MY GUNS! If you don't have mental issues and are not a terrorist then nobody wants your guns. You are free to cuddle them and caress them and whatever else people want to do with them while jacking off to a picture of Charlton Heston. It's no wonder people feel the need to have a dozen clips full of armour piercing rounds when they don't care who else has a gun!

[MiKT]

jpinx, on 09 Dec 2015 - 15:19, said:

Sources? Figures? Vague statements about vague comparisons hold no weight....

You not believe me ?

Registered gun users US over 100,000,000. Registered gun users UK 1,000,000.

30000 US deaths annually / 100,000,000 = 0.0003. UK 50 deaths annually / 1,000.000 = 0.00005

For all the screaming and shouting about the lax gun laws in the US. There is not a great deal in it considering the UK's draconian gun laws.

ahhh, the old lies, dammed lies and statistics ploy,

63,489,234 UK population in mid 2014, gun deaths/year = 50 = 1 per 1,269,785 head of population

332,489,234 US pop same period, gun deaths/year = 30,000 = 1 per 10,750 hop

So the US has 118 times more gun death per head of population than the UK

or, as one other poster has put it, the US has 600 times as many deaths per year than the UK

The fact that the US is 118 times more dangerous than the UK is hardly something to be boasting about.

Tea break over, back on your head.

"63,489,234 UK population in mid 2014, gun deaths/year = 50 = 1 per 1,269,785 head of population

Is this 50 per year total considering all types of deaths?

i.e. murder, suicide, accidental, etc.

Sorry, don't know and don't care enough to find out. I am not at all anti-gun, I just find it hard to believe that those who in the pro-gun home ownership lobby on this forum, most of whom I would have expected to have some sense, cannot accept that the appalling number of gun related deaths in the US needs to be addressed and something done to reduce these numbers.

I don't claim its easy and despite what some posters think I don't boast that the UK system is the perfect answer and will work in the US. I accept that for historic reasons this will not be possible. But It should be possible to do something sensible and all Americans should be working towards a solution - which won't be banning Muslims from entering the US.

Real hard work and good will is required, but I don't believe that under the present political climate in the US, which looks so much like just point scoring rhetoric without caring if its right, just as long as it hurts the opposition; demonstrates that this is not going to happen.

Case in point, 2 idiot muslims kill 14 innocent people out of a population of 318.9 million, in a country with a total land area of 3,794,083 square miles and it causes a ridiculous panic rush to buy guns all over the country.

A nutter claiming it was for ISIS stabbed several people on the London underground yesterday, but if you went out an bought so much as a penknife for self protection and flashed it on the tube (even in self-defence) the police would put YOU away for longer than the person attacking you; and really this is quite right.

The US population is just not used to being attacked at home and cannot make rational decisions so the money men who want you to buy guns use this to stir up people and make them crazy with fear.

RATIONALITY is required - What was good an proper 200 years ago needs to move with the times and be good an proper for 2016. Amend the Amendment - probably not even necessary, just amend the NRA to become the organisation it should be that really helps to keep Americans safe, not just protects the profits of the gun sellers.

......................Sorry, feel free it insert "wing-nuts" in the appropriate places.

Edited December 9, 2015 by MiKT

[notmyself]

How Many People Have Been Shot in Your Neighborhood This Year?

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2015/12/gun_deaths_map_how_many_people_have_died_or_been_injured_in_shootings_around.html

[55Jay]

What gets me is the endless stream of BS from those with a gun fetish. It is the same as talking to Creationists.

I don't have a gun fetish and I feel the same way about the endless stream of BS from those with a gun ban fetish.

Which is a perfect example.

Ask that guns not be sold to people with mental problems and terrorists. Quite a reasonable request one would have thought. What is the answer? DON'T TAKE MY GUNS! If you don't have mental issues and are not a terrorist then nobody wants your guns. You are free to cuddle them and caress them and whatever else people want to do with them while jacking off to a picture of Charlton Heston. It's no wonder people feel the need to have a dozen clips full of armour piercing rounds when they don't care who else has a gun!

Yes, the stream of BS continues from people who know jack s**t. LOL.

[notmyself]

Yes, the stream of BS continues from people who know jack s**t. LOL.

Much of the logic (illogic) is enough to make most sane people want to sit down and weep.

Imagine.... same logic.... Can we stop allowing blind people to drive? Answer: DON'T TAKE MY CAR! How would that, in any way, be a rational response? The NRA has poisoned the minds of many many millions of Americans. Take the well known slogan 'guns don't kill people, people kill people'. It's often put forward as if profound when it is nothing more that pseudo-intellectual BS. In order for it to be logically coherent the word 'gun' needs to be used in the second part of the 'supposed' premise. You have 'guns don't kill people, people kill guns' which is obviously meaningless leaving 'guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people'.

The general section on this forum sometimes has new threads along the lines of where can I buy a gun or what visa do I need to buy a gun or do I need a work permit to buy a gun. I don't recall any single one that has not been started by an American. So when I say gun fetishists I actually mean it. I'm not using it as a throw away statement or some such.

Anyway. I gotta cook some food for myself.

[up2u2]

Myth #4: More good guys with guns can stop rampaging bad guys.
Fact-check: Mass shootings stopped by armed civilians in the past 30 years: 0
• Chances that a shooting at an ER involves guns taken from guards: 1 in 5

[Publicus]

Off the top of my head but pretty accurate, there are more guns in the United States than there are Americans.

However, 100 million Americans such as myself own a gun (one handgun in my instance which is in the USA) or live in a household where a gun is present (at least one firearm).

Four million and some-odd Americans are members of the National Rifle Association. That is 4 million (and some change) but it's just not that many. And the vast majority of NRA members support background checks for anyone who buys a firearm from anyone, any place, any time, under all circumstances. The minority here do not support any of it.

Something like 20% of gun owners own most of the guns.

I've researched each of these items in the past in these thread discussions so I recall this pretty accurately. Just not up to researching it all item by item yet over again to present it in a post half a page long thx.

[jpinx]

Off the top of my head but pretty accurate, there are more guns in the United States than there are Americans.

However, 100 million Americans such as myself own a gun (one handgun in my instance which is in the USA) or live in a household where a gun is present (at least one firearm).

Four million and some-odd Americans are members of the National Rifle Association. That is 4 million (and some change) but it's just not that many. And the vast majority of NRA members support background checks for anyone who buys a firearm from anyone, any place, any time, under all circumstances. The minority here do not support any of it.

Something like 20% of gun owners own most of the guns.

I've researched each of these items in the past in these thread discussions so I recall this pretty accurately. Just not up to researching it all item by item yet over again to present it in a post half a page long thx.

Thanks for sparing us the verbosity It's very true that the "facts" are bent and twisted to suit the point of view being made. Notwithstanding the contortions, the USA fares very badly in all meaningful counts per person -- number of guns, number of gun murders, etc, etc. Anyone with half a brain can see that there is a huge problem, but they are so deeply entrenched that they have no wish to talk about change, let alone reach a compromise. Supporting the brain-dead is the money-men of the gun industry and the pay-politicians. Really there is no chance of change until another civil war breaks out -- which might not be a daft as it sounds, given the numbers of dis-enfranchised people with guns. Also it needs to be borne in mind that despite Trumps best efforts, there is a large Muslim population in USA, some town councils are now predominately muslim. Radicalisation is easiest in the poor, disenfranchised muslim areas in USA and the guns are available at your local Walmart --- sounds like a recipe for mayhem,,,,,

P.S. I know many highly educated americans who own guns -- so my generalisations are just that, and not pointing at any individual.

Edited December 10, 2015 by jpinx

[Chicog]

Is this 'highly educated' bit important?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/15/us/delta-state-shooting-mississippi.html?_r=0

[SgtRock]

MiKT, on 09 Dec 2015 - 22:55, said:

chuckd, on 09 Dec 2015 - 21:32, said:

MiKT, on 09 Dec 2015 - 17:15, said:

SgtRock, on 09 Dec 2015 - 15:52, said:

You not believe me ?

Registered gun users US over 100,000,000. Registered gun users UK 1,000,000.

30000 US deaths annually / 100,000,000 = 0.0003. UK 50 deaths annually / 1,000.000 = 0.00005

For all the screaming and shouting about the lax gun laws in the US. There is not a great deal in it considering the UK's draconian gun laws.

ahhh, the old lies, dammed lies and statistics ploy,

63,489,234 UK population in mid 2014, gun deaths/year = 50 = 1 per 1,269,785 head of population

332,489,234 US pop same period, gun deaths/year = 30,000 = 1 per 10,750 hop

So the US has 118 times more gun death per head of population than the UK

or, as one other poster has put it, the US has 600 times as many deaths per year than the UK

The fact that the US is 118 times more dangerous than the UK is hardly something to be boasting about.

Tea break over, back on your head.

"63,489,234 UK population in mid 2014, gun deaths/year = 50 = 1 per 1,269,785 head of population

Is this 50 per year total considering all types of deaths?

i.e. murder, suicide, accidental, etc.

Sorry, don't know and don't care enough to find out. I am not at all anti-gun, I just find it hard to believe that those who in the pro-gun home ownership lobby on this forum, most of whom I would have expected to have some sense, cannot accept that the appalling number of gun related deaths in the US needs to be addressed and something done to reduce these numbers.

I don't claim its easy and despite what some posters think I don't boast that the UK system is the perfect answer and will work in the US. I accept that for historic reasons this will not be possible. But It should be possible to do something sensible and all Americans should be working towards a solution - which won't be banning Muslims from entering the US.

Real hard work and good will is required, but I don't believe that under the present political climate in the US, which looks so much like just point scoring rhetoric without caring if its right, just as long as it hurts the opposition; demonstrates that this is not going to happen.

Case in point, 2 idiot muslims kill 14 innocent people out of a population of 318.9 million, in a country with a total land area of 3,794,083 square miles and it causes a ridiculous panic rush to buy guns all over the country.

A nutter claiming it was for ISIS stabbed several people on the London underground yesterday, but if you went out an bought so much as a penknife for self protection and flashed it on the tube (even in self-defence) the police would put YOU away for longer than the person attacking you; and really this is quite right.

The US population is just not used to being attacked at home and cannot make rational decisions so the money men who want you to buy guns use this to stir up people and make them crazy with fear.

RATIONALITY is required - What was good an proper 200 years ago needs to move with the times and be good an proper for 2016. Amend the Amendment - probably not even necessary, just amend the NRA to become the organisation it should be that really helps to keep Americans safe, not just protects the profits of the gun sellers.

......................Sorry, feel free it insert "wing-nuts" in the appropriate places.

MiKT

Yes, the US does have a problem with firearms deaths. So does the UK.

My comparison was to highlight 2 things.

1. The firearms problem in the US is nowhere near as bad as some people try to make out.

2. The draconian laws in the UK are also nowhere near as good as some people try to make out.

People who wish to cause death and destruction using firearms will do so, regardless of what laws are in place.

@ ChuckD

There is next to nil suicide by firearm in the UK. Most gun deaths are criminal / drug war related.

[puukao]

This isn't 1990, when newspapers held a lot of weight. NYT is still big, I get that, but 'Front Page' can't be nearly as noteworthy as now.

Did you see what was on front page of Twitter, drudgereport, etc......??

[theoldgit]

Troll calling post removed.

[jpinx]

Is this 'highly educated' bit important?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/15/us/delta-state-shooting-mississippi.html?_r=0

I know -- there are exceptions to every generalisations I was merely fore-stalling any perceived slight against gun-toting members of TV We all know that contributors here are all highly educated and knowledgeable in every aspect of laws in many countries