Overstay blacklisting starts in March

[Gutenberg]

But this has been my home for almost all my adult life (30+years) and the volumes of foreigners that are now here and the way some behaviour has changed the attitude of the Thais towards us.

The Thais have not changed their respect towards us because we have changed. They changed because of many reasons, none of them is because the falangs are different today.

In reality, the common Thai does not even meet a tourist/expat and even then, the party/drunk tourist branches are Pattaya, Koh Samui and Patong. At other places you will only find your quality tourists doing guided tours or the always-has-been-there backpacker/hippie style and of course the retirees in Isaan.

They gave you a smile because you were automatically higher in status as you had money. Now they have also money and can make a decent living, no reasons to give you a smile while they have at least the same status as you - working class.

Besides that, Thailand only for Thais, this is their national anthem. Thais activity live it and have never changed. So, perhaps, after 30 years, your perception towards them has changed, not the other way around.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Gutenberg

[eddybangkok]

You will moonwalk through immigration zier

[huawei]

But this has been my home for almost all my adult life (30+years) and the volumes of foreigners that are now here and the way some behaviour has changed the attitude of the Thais towards us.

The Thais have not changed their respect towards us because we have changed. They changed because of many reasons, none of them is because the falangs are different today.

In reality, the common Thai does not even meet a tourist/expat and even then, the party/drunk tourist branches are Pattaya, Koh Samui and Patong. At other places you will only find your quality tourists doing guided tours or the always-has-been-there backpacker/hippie style and of course the retirees in Isaan.

They gave you a smile because you were automatically higher in status as you had money. Now they have also money and can make a decent living, no reasons to give you a smile while they have at least the same status as you - working class.

Besides that, Thailand only for Thais, this is their national anthem. Thais activity live it and have never changed. So, perhaps, after 30 years, your perception towards them has changed, not the other way around.

I am not so sure. My experience of Thais is mostly those I have worked at International firms or brand name Thai companies with plus of course interaction in bars, parties, weddings, socially, family etc..

In all my jobs i had a Thai boss...so nothing to do with status and certainly nothing do with money.

Nothing to do with smiles either.

I do think you have a valid point though, my perception has changed but nothing stays stagnant forever but one thing is also true the Thais have changed their opinion of us. Thais have changed significantly as has the country. The Asian crisis had a significant impact..

the type of foreigner has changed significantly..mass tourism and Thailand becoming a retiree destination ensured that; plus access to poor farm girls..

As for the poor or common Thai..never really lived upcountry ( issaan)...and absolutely no inclination to do so.

Everything has changed nothing has stayed the same..even how Thais now perceive foreigners.

Underlying all this, we should all be as respectful of their rules and laws which is what this topic is about..but understand we have rights as well.

[huawei]

But this has been my home for almost all my adult life (30+years) and the volumes of foreigners that are now here and the way some behaviour has changed the attitude of the Thais towards us.

The Thais have not changed their respect towards us because we have changed. They changed because of many reasons, none of them is because the falangs are different today.

In reality, the common Thai does not even meet a tourist/expat and even then, the party/drunk tourist branches are Pattaya, Koh Samui and Patong. At other places you will only find your quality tourists doing guided tours or the always-has-been-there backpacker/hippie style and of course the retirees in Isaan.

They gave you a smile because you were automatically higher in status as you had money. Now they have also money and can make a decent living, no reasons to give you a smile while they have at least the same status as you - working class.

Besides that, Thailand only for Thais, this is their national anthem. Thais activity live it and have never changed. So, perhaps, after 30 years, your perception towards them has changed, not the other way around.

Your points may have some validity.

I have worked in international and well known Thai companies. All my bosses were Thai, so I am not sure about the status, money, working class etc..

I think we all misconstrue the smile from day one, but don't dismiss the friendliness of most of the Thais.

Thailand was changed by the Asian crisis...

Mass tourism and Thailand as a retiree destination has changed the foreigner profile dramatically and that has consequences of perception.

Nothing stays the same over 30 years..be it my opinion of Thailand or them of foreigners.

I have been scammed, racially abused ( contract negotiations - no smiles in business I can assure you, quite the opposite).. But as foreigners we need to be respectful of the law....(but knowing we have rights) which is what the topic is about.

Of course the Thais have changed in many ways but to presume their attitude towards us is their only constant is I think not true and not my experience.

[huawei]

If anybody met me they would say i am very respectful to thais and get on very well with them.I know i should be beaten possibly even shot for my overstay i will pray for forgivenes daily

Just pray you don't do it after March..

[ubonjoe]

Hope I'm not blacklisted when I return next year. I overstayed a bit(many years). Do you think I will have difficulties entering the country again?

You will not have a problem the new rules will not be applied retroactively.

[nithisa78]

could and will, very different.

[ardokano]

Would be a nightmare for Spies!

Alot more thought nerds to go into the procedure, but they have most of the data on frequent visitors already.

First time verification takes longer obviously.

Leave the country, finger prints agian, data base would check, officer would verify and stamp your passport.

Database would show that you exited the country.

Trolls who bring up computer problems, get a life shit happens, but with out technology everyone is at risk.

Technology make people.

So if technology can make. its can be destroyed

Or cheating

For Spies its not nightmare - It's their job

Fake finger print can make at home.

[ardokano]

don't want to pay for a visa, don't want to pay tax, don't wan't a work permit.

kick them all out.

I know a few who are left in a bar in a month tens of thousands more.

One of them, since 5 years. and motorbike and car rentals.

Every since the opinion.someonedoes not want visarun.

By the way, even for people with money, it may seem a large one-time payment of 500k'm taking Visa.

[Gutenberg]

By the way, even for people with money, it may seem a large one-time payment of 500k'm taking Visa.

Before my long-term overstay adventures I was really flying EVERY month with an airplane to a neighbor country (mostly KL and SG) and back to Thailand for just 30 days arrival visa, spending around 15,000 THB for the tickets (+ gf) + 15,000 THB for the airport hotel at KL and SQ.

Man, had I known about this program before and not learned like 10 years later about it, I could have saved really good money. And now I don't need this anymore because of other visa.

[hawker9000]

By the way, even for people with money, it may seem a large one-time payment of 500k'm taking Visa.

Before my long-term overstay adventures I was really flying EVERY month with an airplane to a neighbor country (mostly KL and SG) and back to Thailand for just 30 days arrival visa, spending around 15,000 THB for the tickets (+ gf) + 15,000 THB for the airport hotel at KL and SQ.

Man, had I known about this program before and not learned like 10 years later about it, I could have saved really good money. And now I don't need this anymore because of other visa.

What's new is, essentially, the bans on future visits. Overstayers are already subject to arrest, fines & detention, and blacklisting, with the possibility of an IO refusing future entry as a possible consequence. All that's new is a "codification" of the ban period piece if it. Yeah, you could have saved a bunch of money .... at considerable (not to mention well-deserved) risk...

[Gutenberg]

Yeah, you could have saved a bunch of money .... at considerable (not to mention well-deserved) risk...

So if I had bought the elite visa I would have been at risk? How come?

[eddybangkok]

I went to Immigration today and met with the officer who handled my case last time.I gave him a bottle of jd as he was pretty good to me.He joked with me said"dont overstay again na" i asked him about the new rules his reply was "just talk talk not do sure" now he might be wrong-should be wrong but should no more then us.Lets see

[ardokano]

Different people, different needs, different opinions.

A trip to Laos from Chiang Mai by plane (or car for gas,dizel) 3-4k baht.

taxi 1000

Hotel 3-4k baht.

Beer 2-4k

. 1-2k girl (if anyone interests)

Visa in Laos1500.

Doble Visa Thailand 2000

2 times extension 1900.

total 18-25K

25k for 6 month with 1 nigth fun.

50k per year

But you like evry month go and stay in hotel airport(why not come back same day or not take double visa in Kl or SG i do not know)

500k can invest 10-25% per year

its 50k-150k per yaer.

[hawker9000]

Yeah, you could have saved a bunch of money .... at considerable (not to mention well-deserved) risk...

So if I had bought the elite visa I would have been at risk? How come?

No. No special risk associated with the Visa Elite thing, other than the risk of its just being cancelled on you at some point, of course. I was really referring to the topic of the thread. (My bad - I tend to do that - focus on the topic at hand...) If the Visa Elite program seems like a worthwhile investment to you, go for it. (It's been WIDELY discussed & debated here on TV for YEARS - 'not exactly a secret.)

[Moonmoon]

imo, this law might just be the government trying to pull a scare on overstayers n getting them to go out now n pay the 20k fine. I was an overstayer too but i made it out last week and paid the overstay fine 20k and there were a few others like me too at the overstayed counter. imagine the amount of revenue they are generating from this everyday now. but if you have the money to go out now i strongly suggest that pay the fine and go now come back later. Dont risk it.

[Lampang2]

imo, this law might just be the government trying to pull a scare on overstayers n getting them to go out now n pay the 20k fine. I was an overstayer too but i made it out last week and paid the overstay fine 20k and there were a few others like me too at the overstayed counter. imagine the amount of revenue they are generating from this everyday now. but if you have the money to go out now i strongly suggest that pay the fine and go now come back later. Dont risk it.

Imagine the money lost on proper visas.

[JackThompson]

Imagine the money lost on proper visas.

Yes, it is curious why the policy is not changed to allow foreigners on tourist-visas to show up at immigration every 2 or 3 months and pay a fee (as in the Philippines). This would would increase fee-revenues, foreign-capital spending into the economy, and simultaneously make overstay less appealing.

[jspill]

Imagine the money lost on proper visas.

Yes, it is curious why the policy is not changed to allow foreigners on tourist-visas to show up at immigration every 2 or 3 months and pay a fee (as in the Philippines). This would would increase fee-revenues, foreign-capital spending into the economy, and simultaneously make overstay less appealing.

Plus the Philippines simply makes overstayers pay the exact cost of all the visas they missed, whether it's less or more than 20k. Fair and logical system.

Plus a processing fee of 500 pesos (380 baht) per month.

It reaches the equivalent of 20k Baht after about 1 year of overstay.

[stoneyboy]

Imagine the money lost on proper visas.

Yes, it is curious why the policy is not changed to allow foreigners on tourist-visas to show up at immigration every 2 or 3 months and pay a fee (as in the Philippines). This would would increase fee-revenues, foreign-capital spending into the economy, and simultaneously make overstay less appealing.

This is Thailand not the Plips.

[elviajero]

Imagine the money lost on proper visas.

Yes, it is curious why the policy is not changed to allow foreigners on tourist-visas to show up at immigration every 2 or 3 months and pay a fee (as in the Philippines). This would would increase fee-revenues, foreign-capital spending into the economy, and simultaneously make overstay less appealing.

I think they don't because the Tourist visa is not meant as a method for long term stay. They want tourists to leave.

[elviajero]

Imagine the money lost on proper visas.

Yes, it is curious why the policy is not changed to allow foreigners on tourist-visas to show up at immigration every 2 or 3 months and pay a fee (as in the Philippines). This would would increase fee-revenues, foreign-capital spending into the economy, and simultaneously make overstay less appealing.

Plus the Philippines simply makes overstayers pay the exact cost of all the visas they missed, whether it's less or more than 20k. Fair and logical system.

Plus a processing fee of 500 pesos (380 baht) per month.

It reaches the equivalent of 20k Baht after about 1 year of overstay.

The Philippines doesn't have anywhere near the number of visitors Thailand has or the growing 'it's ok to overstay' culture.

As the 20k fine hasn't been increased in over 30 years, and isn't fully applied until 40 days, I think it's already more than fair. There is no logic to only fine someone the same as it would cost them getting a visa as there is no incentive to get the visa, Penalties are meant to penalise. 380 baht per month is hardly a penalty. Following the Philippine model would just lead to more overstayers.

The logical system is to have a daily fine with a cap and to impose a ban. The new proposal seems reasonable except they should also ban those overstaying under 90 days for the time they overstayed otherwise people will just overstay <=90 days and repeat. And or penalise repeat offenders based on their combined overstays.

[JackThompson]

Imagine the money lost on proper visas.

Yes, it is curious why the policy is not changed to allow foreigners on tourist-visas to show up at immigration every 2 or 3 months and pay a fee (as in the Philippines). This would would increase fee-revenues, foreign-capital spending into the economy, and simultaneously make overstay less appealing.

Plus the Philippines simply makes overstayers pay the exact cost of all the visas they missed, whether it's less or more than 20k. Fair and logical system.

Plus a processing fee of 500 pesos (380 baht) per month.

It reaches the equivalent of 20k Baht after about 1 year of overstay.

The Philippines doesn't have anywhere near the number of visitors Thailand has or the growing 'it's ok to overstay' culture.

As the 20k fine hasn't been increased in over 30 years, and isn't fully applied until 40 days, I think it's already more than fair. There is no logic to only fine someone the same as it would cost them getting a visa as there is no incentive to get the visa, Penalties are meant to penalise. 380 baht per month is hardly a penalty. Following the Philippine model would just lead to more overstayers.

The logical system is to have a daily fine with a cap and to impose a ban. The new proposal seems reasonable except they should also ban those overstaying under 90 days for the time they overstayed otherwise people will just overstay <=90 days and repeat. And or penalise repeat offenders based on their combined overstays.

I don't know where the "ok to overstay" culture idea comes in - living day-to-day with the very real threat of being thrown in jail when/if caught and frog-marched to an airplaine (days or weeks later) is not at all tempting to me. But if they want to increase the fines or blacklist those who overstay for several months, that's ok by me.

But I also see no reason they could not adopt an in-country visa system for tourists under 50, similar too the PI, which would also discourage overstaying - In Conjuction with increasing the fines and/or blacklisting. Virtually automatic Permanent Residence if married and living in the country for a few years, like most (all?) Western and Latin American countries, would be nice, too. But, no, I won't hold my breath.

[Andre0720]

"The existing law is weak, with fines of only Bt20,000," he said.

For a Thai national, an equivalent offence might carry the hefty fine of some 500 bahts.

And we often see 'welcome'

[elviajero]

I don't know where the "ok to overstay" culture idea comes in - living day-to-day with the very real threat of being thrown in jail when/if caught and frog-marched to an airplaine (days or weeks later) is not at all tempting to me. But if they want to increase the fines or blacklist those who overstay for several months, that's ok by me.

But I also see no reason they could not adopt an in-country visa system for tourists under 50, similar too the PI, which would also discourage overstaying - In Conjuction with increasing the fines and/or blacklisting. Virtually automatic Permanent Residence if married and living in the country for a few years, like most (all?) Western and Latin American countries, would be nice, too. But, no, I won't hold my breath.

"I don't know where the "ok to overstay" culture idea comes in" As an example try spill's post (255) in this thread. Apparently he knows quite a few overstayers that overstay through choice. Allegedly they get sad at the thought of having to leave the country every few months to get a new visa so they don't, but overstaying is ok because it's no worse than getting a parking ticket. Complete disrespect for their host country and there are thousands like them.

They could have a visa system for tourists under 50 but they don't. And the fact they don't suggests they don't want long term tourists under 50 other than those prepared to pay (Elite visa). Thailand doesn't have a need to encourage any group as millions come here every year and the numbers continue to grow. I've no idea what the target cap for long term expats is but I bet it's getting close to that number. I know there are under 50's genuinely able to fund their stay from investment income etc, but there are far more that can't and shouldn't be here. I think we are seeing the beginning of the end for 'tourists' of any age staying here long term using tourist visas. They did the same thing with visa exempt entry in '06 and having pushed many on to tourist visas they are the natural next target.

The existing PR rules are a joke and again suggest that they prefer to keep most of us on a short leash.

[Gutenberg]

The logical system is to have a daily fine with a cap and to impose a ban. The new proposal seems reasonable except they should also ban those overstaying under 90 days for the time they overstayed otherwise people will just overstay <=90 days and repeat. And or penalise repeat offenders based on their combined overstays.

Hmm, let me see.

Tourist Visa for 60 days, every 60 days costs me = 1x flight for 2 persons, 1 night 5 stars for 2 person, room service, shopping + visa fees + "visa fees" to the guy in front of the embassy Probably around 30,000 - 40,000 THB. Needs to be done every 60 days for a year, so at least 6 times.

Overstaying 90 days going over the border and come back for 30 days visa on arrival, 20,000 THB. To get a year staying, it need's to be done 3 times.

Over the year, it is approx. 200,000 THB (tourist visa) vs. 60,000 THB (overstay)

Man, I might save something with your idea (hypothetical, I have my wild and fun overstay lifestyle left behind).

Edited December 29, 2015 by Gutenberg

[D3030]

It's kind of funny - I totally missed the word of the blacklisting info when it was supposed to start months ago.

Then early December 2015 - I get a Thai Visa Breaking News email about the blacklisting starting March 2016.

I went into panic mode - called a visa services that previously would have helped clear my overstay - to can't anymore.

Kept calling - got one company to say no problem for a cost of 75000 baht - but he couldn't guarantee it could be fixed - just money back.

Other companies would not give a qoute - just wanted me to come in - but I lived too far to take a trip, just to be told it cost too much or they can't do it..

Then my last attempt - a law firm said "no problem" and asked if I heard of the new overstay law? - then said for 200000 baht they can escort me to the airport and meet me on my return.. Then they will get me a long term visa..

So when I heard that silly nonsense- I called a random immigration office.. They guy nicely said "it's better to leave from airport - and return and begin with a new start."

I bought a ticket and left.. Currently renewing everything and taking care of business I could not do from Thailand..

My multiple year overstay - it wasn't my plan to overstay, it just happened.. And yes - no real penality for doing so, prolonged my illegal stay..

That's my overstay story ..

[ubonjoe]

New topic with with more info. New Overstay Rules Announced By Immigration

This one