Thai farmers protest against bill on GMO farming

[lucky11]

I have the impression most people don't realize that most grains are already GMO. When I was purchasing raw materials for feed it was a real challenge to find GMO free grains. Personally I am in favor of GMO grains, without them the world population would run out of food very soon! It is the same with nuclear energy, some oppose but some realize that this is today the only option to supply enough energy to the world.

I see that the propaganda machine has well and truly worked on you!! There is no evidence that yields are greater with GMO's, only that it is considerably more costlier for the farmer and makes the Monsanto board members very happy indeed if people fall for this fallacy promoted by their marketing division.

It is wiping out vital wildlife as it kills insects indiscriminately. Like the Monarch butterflies that are down 90% and don't forget the birds and the bees that are a vital cog in food production. I wouldn't mind betting that you think the birds and the bees are something else!!

The soils are being destroyed and this is likely to be the cause of food shortages in the future as well as producing crops that are devoid of nutrients and minerals, meaning that we are. Considering the malnourishment of cells through insufficient nutrient levels is the cause of pretty much ALL disease (including being a major factor in cancer) then is it any wonder that everyone is sicker nowadays despite the advances in science. Having said that these so called advances in new medicines are just as much to blame for seemingly perpetual illness as they are designed to keep you sick, or they will kill you in the long run. I'm OK though as I have educated myself on such matters and have come to the conclusion that disease and illnesses such as heart, liver, kidney and other diseases can all be cured naturally by attacking them at the root cause (usually through nourishment, boosting the immunity system and detox of the vital organs with natural substances) not treating or masking the symptoms which is all synthetic drugs do to keep you on them for eternity to supply a lucrative income stream for the snake oil merchants (big pharma). I treat myself and have overcome a dozen ailments including one that doctors said was untreatable and I would have it for life.

Edited December 10, 2015 by lucky11

[Snackbar]

Any more info on your cure for untreatable ailment?

[impulse]

I have the impression most people don't realize that most grains are already GMO. When I was purchasing raw materials for feed it was a real challenge to find GMO free grains. Personally I am in favor of GMO grains, without them the world population would run out of food very soon! It is the same with nuclear energy, some oppose but some realize that this is today the only option to supply enough energy to the world.

I think you have to differentiate between cross breeding several strains of (for example) corn to improve the traits of that corn, and GMO. Two different critters there.

Cross breeding (hybrids) has been going on for thousands of years. Had it not been for hybrids, the human carrying capacity of the earth would have been exceeded centuries ago.

GMO is opening up the nucleus of a corn cell and implanting the gene of (for example) a salmon because salmon are immune to some fungus that's been damaging corn yields. That hasn't been going on for thousands of years. It's new, and we don't have a clue what the long term effects will be.

(BTW, the example of corn and salmon- that's illustrative. I'm not sure that's been done, but weirder and scarier combinations have been done and patented and marketed)

Edited December 10, 2015 by impulse

[GuestHouse]

I see the pro GM stooges are out in force today.

If GM is so very safe and so very good for us, tell us why it is that the US government fights every effort by governments and NGOs around the world to have GM content declared on food products?

The defenders of liberal trade fighting the right of people to know what it is they are eating.

Edited December 10, 2015 by GuestHouse

[jdlancaster]

Lucky 11 can I get a copy of the double blind study you used to prove your claims.... I want to read the materials and methods section so I know exactly what to take 55555 and so I can know exactly how more effective it is than the current standard of care

[jdlancaster]

Impulse. .. that is a great and fair explanation. ... though I think the rhetoric on gmos is a disservice to actual studies. ... they need to be specific on regulations based on type of modification being done.... are we adding a foreign gene... or just increasing or decreasing the expression on one already in there.... what does the gene do? Just color or is it a insecticide from bacillus thuringiensis? but interestingly though.... gmos may be the only way to save some species of crops such as those ravaged by fungii... like certain grape and banana varietals

[AleG]

Monsanto put to trial in the Hague for crimes against humanity.

http://truthkings.com/2015/12/09/monsanto-to-be-put-to-trial-in-the-hague-for-crimes-against-humanity/#

A bunch of people with an axe to grind organize a "Monsanto Tribunal" on the Hague so that gullible individuals think that the actual International Court of Justice of the Hague is putting Monsanto on trial for crimes against humanity.

How cute.

[lucky11]

Any more info on your cure for untreatable ailment?

Sure!! I suffered ulcerative colitis for 30 years (it started when I was 19 years old) - taking medications such as methalazarine and sulphasalazine (or something like that) to treat it. I was told that I would have to take medication for the rest of my life. I think they did stabilise it at first, but I still suffered from it despite taking medication.

How did I cure myself? Simple, I stopped taking the medication (against the doctor's advice) and it cleared up within a week without a single experienced symptom over the past 10 years since stopping the medication.

I have become a researcher on natural cures after my doctor gave me a list as long as my arm of ailments and things that I had wrong with me. I had told him previous to my check up that I didn't take tablets. He took note if this and said to me "there that's what's wrong with you go away and look them up on the internet and fix yourself". I did just this and of the dozen problems that I was suffering with, I had eradicated ALL of them within a month and went from a pretty sick guy to almost perfect health!! My friends started asking me for advice and two of them managed to reverse their diabetes within 3 weeks. Considering doctors deem type 2 diabetes to be irreversible then I suppose that's quite impressive!!

Edited December 10, 2015 by lucky11

[jdlancaster]

Wow lucky 11 you should write that up and publish it in a medical journal because if true it is amazing. ..you would revolutionize medicine... I am sure the editor would be impressed and recommend it for peer review and publishing. .. could even get a nobel prize out of it... I need a beer

[sgtsabai]

I'd like to see Monsanto and Synergy bankrupt. They are already morally bankrupt. You want to eat Agent Orange corn, well just go right ahead on. I know what Agent Orange can and does do and I wouldn't believe one word out of either companies collective asses, ah mouths. Nor do I believe the bought and sold FDA protects the public, they work for Monsanto. How about GMO Salmon, i.e. "frankingfish". They can breed and what happens when the escape into the wild? Why is Monsanto bribing "politicians" to sneak the DARK aka Monsanto Protective Act through Congress as a rider on the budget? "Cross breeding (hybrids) has been going on for thousands of years." Absolutely correct, GMO's are not the same, no where near and I damn well won't eat them if I know they are in the food I eat. Neither will a lot of other people, hence the massive lobbying, bribery etc. to pass the DARK Act. Monsanto wants to rule the seed world and will stop at nothing to do it including bankrupting farmers who don't want their damn GMO seeds.

[lucky11]

I see the pro GM stooges are out in force today.

If GM is so very safe and so very good for us, tell us why it is that the US government fights every effort by governments and NGOs around the world to have GM content declared on food products?

The defenders of liberal trade fighting the right of people to know what it is they are eating.

Precisely!! If something is good for you and the world as a whole you would think that they would be falling over themselves to promote it, but no, they are spending millions of dollars to stop the labelling of GMO products.

If something was fortified with vitamin C or niacin then it appears big on the label, so why not promote the supposed saviour of the world's food supply? Now what do you think the reason for this is?

[beammeup]

If you guys want to consume the GMO foods go ahead knock yourselves out. I would prefer not to. Why are they afraid to label food in the US as GMO? I think most people would prefer non GMO if given the choice.

[luk AJ]

I have the impression most people don't realize that most grains are already GMO. When I was purchasing raw materials for feed it was a real challenge to find GMO free grains. Personally I am in favor of GMO grains, without them the world population would run out of food very soon! It is the same with nuclear energy, some oppose but some realize that this is today the only option to supply enough energy to the world.

I think you have to differentiate between cross breeding several strains of (for example) corn to improve the traits of that corn, and GMO. Two different critters there.

Cross breeding (hybrids) has been going on for thousands of years. Had it not been for hybrids, the human carrying capacity of the earth would have been exceeded centuries ago.

GMO is opening up the nucleus of a corn cell and implanting the gene of (for example) a salmon because salmon are immune to some fungus that's been damaging corn yields. That hasn't been going on for thousands of years. It's new, and we don't have a clue what the long term effects will be.

(BTW, the example of corn and salmon- that's illustrative. I'm not sure that's been done, but weirder and scarier combinations have been done and patented and marketed)

Well there is R&D going on to get HUFA into plants, so your salmon example is not far off. Would it not be great if we could get the necessary healthy nutrition from plants i.s.o. emptying the oceans from all remaining fish? We have to be realistic, or population has to decrease or we have to use resources more effective by cultivating GMO crops.

[beammeup]

Oh and did you think the people that were against DDT and PCB's were tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists? Just read about Monsanto on Wikipedia, its enough to make you sick to your stomach

[jdlancaster]

Being a tinfoil hat wearer isn't about whether you get proven right... its about how you come to your conclusions. Youd have to be more specific about who and what their claims are about ddt and pcb.... from a scientific standpoint researchers did experiments and have peer reviewed published work about ddt and its dangers (im not familiar with pcb) therefore comparing ddt to gmos is not a good comparison. Ddt is a specific chemical with peerreviewed data... the peer reviewed data on gmos and vaccines doesn't align withbwhat the tin foil hat people say.... the tin foil hat people jump to conclusions based on hear say and conjecture.... and on a side note if we didn't have alternative chemicals and programs and people were dieing from malaria and other vector diseases in high numbers (relative to the past... it used to be all over the usa and europe) wed still use ddt

Edited December 10, 2015 by jdlancaster

[impulse]

but interestingly though.... gmos may be the only way to save some species of crops such as those ravaged by fungii... like certain grape and banana varietals

I suspect that part of the problem is directly related to breeding bananas and grapes to yield more profits, without long term thinking to foresee what it would do to the resistance of the resulting breeds. Chickens coming home to roost, maybe? That's why I fear GMO's on the health and science side. Not enough long term science to risk the future of humanity (as we know it) on it.

On the commercial side, I fear Big Agra, Big Pharma, the Military Industrial Complex, and Big Money. GMO's just get rolled up into that. I freely admit I'm a wingnut...

I read an article in the past month indicating there's a fear that bananas will be going functionally extinct again in the near future. I wasn't aware of the grapes, but I don't drink wine and eating them gives me the trots- so I don't have a personal stake in grapes. I do love bananas, though...

Edited December 10, 2015 by impulse

[h90]

What do you expect from a government that denies the dangers of asbestos and reallows the production and use of it?

asbestos has some good properties, there are a lot more dangerous things we manufacture, just they aren't as known as asbestos.

[h90]

Let's put on our tin hats... not take vaccines because they cause autism... and avoid gmos... because that is possible 555... they should take off there clothes made from gmo cotton. ..not take insulin or other lifesaving drugs made from gmos... gmos will make farming 2.5x more expensive? Farming with gmos is cheaper per yield... not to mention resistant to pests.. drought...etc... and can be fortified with vitamins. Check out golden rice, vitamin a, and poor children in developing countries going blind.. then there are the gmos made to battle disease vectors such as modified mosquitos resistant to malaria... mankind has been modifying organisms through selective breeding and induced mutagenesis for quite some time.... check out some pictures of what maize looked lije.... nothing like our corn of today.... in an overcrowded world with limited resources we need to maximize yield... and reduce famine in the developing world through drought and disease resistant crops....

GMO is a technology, like nuclear....you can make a nuclear bomb, a nuclear power plant, or you X-Ray people.

Fact is that it isn't some state owned Universities that bring out new GMO seeds to help people, it is companies which are known to be the worst. That aren't Vitamin enriched products. 2.5 times as expensive: that is proofed in Africa.

GMO crops, pesticide resistant. You get first the seeds cheap.....after a short while you can't plant any other seeds anymore because the soil is full of the pesticides and you have to sell the product to the same company which sells you the seeds.

So unless you have the funds to wait a couple of years till the land recovers you are a slave.

Medicine is a complete different topic.

[h90]

If you guys want to consume the GMO foods go ahead knock yourselves out. I would prefer not to. Why are they afraid to label food in the US as GMO? I think most people would prefer non GMO if given the choice.

I am not afraid of GMO. But I want to have it labeled. I want to know what I buy.

[jdlancaster]

Pesticide resistant crops are the problem? Or is it the over use of pesticides? I am gonna pick the latter.... and gmo crops can reduce use of pesticides... one variety uses a bacillus thuringiensis gene to produce insecticidal proteins thus reducing use of pesticides. .. and these protein and that bacteria are everywhere naturally. These proteins specifically kill pests and leave other pollinators to do their job. These proteins are commonly used in organic farming. The potential...

[optad]

Pesticide resistant crops are the problem? Or is it the over use of pesticides? I am gonna pick the latter.... and gmo crops can reduce use of pesticides... one variety uses a bacillus thuringiensis gene to produce insecticidal proteins thus reducing use of pesticides. .. and these protein and that bacteria are everywhere naturally. These proteins specifically kill pests and leave other pollinators to do their job. These proteins are commonly used in organic farming. The potential...

JD, it might help the average punter here if you declared why you are so pro GMO.

Partisan science on both sides but you have beeb ardent here. Were you a farmer, a scientist ...care to explain your experience and interest in the field... what ticks mate?

[jdlancaster]

I'd say there is science and then there is pseudoscience. .. I am a scientist and do support gmos. Most of the anticrowd is influenced by pseudosvience just like the antivaxxers. Antivaxxer pseudoscience has killed people through several outbreaks such as measles in the usa alone. Antigmo pseudoscience stops projects like golden rice... rice that has high levels of the precursor to vitamin A for use in poor areas where 670000 children die a year from.vitamin A deficiency. Most people don't know the least bit about them. That I said I don't like Monsanto at all.... they are morally bankrupt.. and there legal practices are... wel they speak for themselves. Pseudoscience is dangerous... they mislead and deceive and people get sick or die because of it

[farmerjo]

I know a lot of people don't like GMO crops.

My question to them is why are so many farmers growing it?

[GuestHouse]

I'd say there is science and then there is pseudoscience. .. I am a scientist and do support gmos. Most of the anticrowd is influenced by pseudosvience just like the antivaxxers. Antivaxxer pseudoscience has killed people through several outbreaks such as measles in the usa alone. Antigmo pseudoscience stops projects like golden rice... rice that has high levels of the precursor to vitamin A for use in poor areas where 670000 children die a year from.vitamin A deficiency. Most people don't know the least bit about them. That I said I don't like Monsanto at all.... they are morally bankrupt.. and there legal practices are... wel they speak for themselves. Pseudoscience is dangerous... they mislead and deceive and people get sick or die because of it

Claims to be the holder of all right knowledge on a particular subject are far more dangerous than pseudoscience.

I've asked a question at .34 above which you've managed to dodge - as a clear supporter of GMO being introduced into our food would you care to answer the question I asked?

As for begin a scientist, well its not just scientist who examine data and evidence, as an engineer who's specialisation is risk, its something I do all the time - I specifically analyse data and evidence in terms of risk.

The pro GMO arguments are replete with holes and downplayed risks, I'll get back to these tomorrow (I have a meeting with my thesis supervisor this evening so I'm a tad busy).

While I'm away dealing with that see if you can give a good answer to my question at .34

[quandow]

Let's put on our tin hats... not take vaccines because they cause autism... and avoid gmos... because that is possible 555... they should take off there clothes made from gmo cotton. ..not take insulin or other lifesaving drugs made from gmos... gmos will make farming 2.5x more expensive? Farming with gmos is cheaper per yield... not to mention resistant to pests.. drought...etc... and can be fortified with vitamins. Check out golden rice, vitamin a, and poor children in developing countries going blind.. then there are the gmos made to battle disease vectors such as modified mosquitos resistant to malaria... mankind has been modifying organisms through selective breeding and induced mutagenesis for quite some time.... check out some pictures of what maize looked lije.... nothing like our corn of today.... in an overcrowded world with limited resources we need to maximize yield... and reduce famine in the developing world through drought and disease resistant crops....

Read "The Secret History of the American Empire," by John Perkins, check his sources, then go back over what you wrote. Unless you are a Monsanto shill, you shouldn't be spouting off such senseless rhetoric. The "Golden Rice" bull$hit was a promotional gimmick from the Bill Clinton administration. Of COURSE rice has no vitamin A, you get that from green veggies, and that's just ONE falsity you posted here.

[quandow]

I know a lot of people don't like GMO crops.

My question to them is why are so many farmers growing it?

No small farm managers grow it, it's poison to their business. AGRIBUSINESS is the name of the hideous concept, corporate sized mega farms. It does NOT produce more yield, gets more expensive every year due to the need for more pesticide as weeds are becoming Roundup resistant, and defies the most basic principle of a farmer using seed from his own plants. Monsanto only sells "Frankenseed" that does NOT produce more seeds for next year's crop and must be purchased every year. Monsanto is evil beyond imagination

[quandow]

I'd say there is science and then there is pseudoscience. .. I am a scientist and do support gmos. Most of the anticrowd is influenced by pseudosvience just like the antivaxxers. Antivaxxer pseudoscience has killed people through several outbreaks such as measles in the usa alone. Antigmo pseudoscience stops projects like golden rice... rice that has high levels of the precursor to vitamin A for use in poor areas where 670000 children die a year from.vitamin A deficiency. Most people don't know the least bit about them. That I said I don't like Monsanto at all.... they are morally bankrupt.. and there legal practices are... wel they speak for themselves. Pseudoscience is dangerous... they mislead and deceive and people get sick or die because of it

If you're a scientist then I'm Santa Claus. The vitamin A deficiency bull$hit came from the Bill Clinton administration. Of COURSE rice doesn't contain vitamin A, you get that from fresh veggies. They sold that load of crap to a lot of people. Not sure if you're just misinformed or a Monsanto shill. Read "The Secret History of the American Empire" by John Perkins, double check his resources, then look again at what you wrote.

[farmerjo]

I know a lot of people don't like GMO crops.

My question to them is why are so many farmers growing it?

No small farm managers grow it, it's poison to their business. AGRIBUSINESS is the name of the hideous concept, corporate sized mega farms. It does NOT produce more yield, gets more expensive every year due to the need for more pesticide as weeds are becoming Roundup resistant, and defies the most basic principle of a farmer using seed from his own plants. Monsanto only sells "Frankenseed" that does NOT produce more seeds for next year's crop and must be purchased every year. Monsanto is evil beyond imagination

That's right,most people i know growing it,because they have weed resistence to other herbicides like attrazine and can't grow a crop unless they grow gmo.

[jdlancaster]

Guesthouse. .. you asked why the us government fights labeling around the world for gmo products? ... first it's irrelevant to safety so I didn't answer it.... and im not the right person to ask because it is a business question and nothing about science.... i would say it is most likely bbecause they will sell more and they are protecting and promoting american companies. .. that is what the government does for many companies. . But again irrelevant... there are gmo safety issues scientists actually worry about but no one has come up with more than Monsanto is bad so gmos are bad arguements or government conspiracy theories. ...

[jdlancaster]

Quandrow... let go of monsanto.... that is a company and ive already said I don't like their business practices. Monsanto is not a gmo... they only own the rights to a few of them.... falsity? I never claimed regular rice was high in vitamin A. You are making things up. I said golden rice is a gmo rice that is high in vitamin A made specifically for poor subsistence farmers in areas like se asia where more than a half million children die under 5 due to vitamin A deficiency and antigmo rhetoric has made it more difficult to introduce these crops and save lives. The rhetoric kills children. oh and the vitamin A bs as you call it is well documented by several organizations like the who its not a conspiracy by bill Clinton im sure he has bigger issues to deal withnat the moment