UK expats for EU exit

[Ricardo]

No need to start calling each other bigots or retards, we're all just British-expats living-in-Thailand and with a right to an opinion, I'm sure we all agree that we have a right to take part in any such vote ?

Personally I'm for staying-in, because I think the UK is too-heavily-dependent on the EU-economy, and would be worse-off outside on-our-own.

But I know there are plenty who'd disagree, or who blame Europe for the economic-chills & refugee-problems, myself I think it's good to face these things with a few friends on our side.

I do accept the EU has problems, and wish that we Brits were working harder to fix things, to actively participate. Better to be inside the tent, peering out with our mates and grumbling, than outside and peeing-in !

Unfortunatly the tent we are in ,peeing out is not full of "our mates" but countrys who either want to sponge of us ,or control us , they just want our money , and if we do leave , you can bet your bottom dollar that the E.U will fall apart sooner rather than later .

Which is one more reason to stay, they can't manage without us, even when we're not really trying very hard to be good Europeans !

They need our Leadership !

Perhaps a reverse-takeover might be the answer, they could all hold a vote, about becoming part of the United Kingdom !

[nong38]

I have just been down to Pattaya to visit old chums escaping the UK weather and naturally we got onto talking about the upcoming Referendum, of the 11 I spoke to and regardless of what the PM might surprise them with about his changes secured the view was as follows...............10 for exit and 1 not sure yet.

I wonder if any plans have made about what to do in the event of an "out" vote?

[emilymat]

I have just been down to Pattaya to visit old chums escaping the UK weather and naturally we got onto talking about the upcoming Referendum, of the 11 I spoke to and regardless of what the PM might surprise them with about his changes secured the view was as follows...............10 for exit and 1 not sure yet.

I wonder if any plans have made about what to do in the event of an "out" vote?

I suppose it depends on so many issues.

Take me for instance. From a personal point of view I would vote to stay, given I'm hoping to re-locate to Spain this year. Also, I think the pound will fall immediately after an 'out' vote.

On the other hand, looking at it strategically, the deal Cameron has secured is an obvious fudge. He is desperate not to go down in history as the PM who took us out of Europe. Although unfair, that would be his legacy. Don't forget, he's pacing in in 3/4 years, before making his fortune on the speaking merry go round and also being showered with possible directorships. (They all do it, so he's only following the normal route)

So, I'll wait for the campaign and see if I can make sense of the economic pro's and cons and the political implications of an exit.

I am genuinely an undecided. one of those who voted in favour of the common market but increasingly concerned about the continuing political integration. Unfortunately, I think the 'campaign' is going to be dominated by immigration, which is understandable I suppose.

[nontabury]

I have just been down to Pattaya to visit old chums escaping the UK weather and naturally we got onto talking about the upcoming Referendum, of the 11 I spoke to and regardless of what the PM might surprise them with about his changes secured the view was as follows...............10 for exit and 1 not sure yet.

I wonder if any plans have made about what to do in the event of an "out" vote?

I 'm guessing all of your friends are ether middle aged or rather old,and are making their judgement on experience. The main worry I have with the referendum is that the majority of the younger voters will have no concept on how the UK can not only control its boarders, but also the UK's ability to trade with other parts of the world independently of the eurocrats in Brussels. They have spent the lives listening to propergander spouted out by the Eurocrats in Brussels and from our own political elite in London, who are of course divorced from the real world. I have already seen some articles were the pro EU authors are trying to create a wedge between the age groups,suggesting that all those in favour of getting out are mostly the elderly.

[nong38]

Yes you are right all over 60, but they will turn up and vote!

The problem is that the media are generally supporting the status quo and so its looks very close on paper, someone could be in for a shock and be ill prepared for departure.

There are those also who think that if its an "out" win that the HMG will say we did not understand what we were voting for please have another think and try to get it right this time! Remember Ireland, France and the Netherlands recently?

It is to be hoped that whatever the result that the loser accepts the view of the British Public and facilitates their wishes.

[Johnyo]

Great news for the Spanish health system. The amount of retired Brits taking advantage was getting out of control.

[nong38]

The case for the UK leaving seems appealing at first but it's deeply flawed. I'm not sure whether voters who say they want to leave realize the implications. Yes, the UK frequently contributes more to the EU than it gets out (10bn Euros more in 2013) but if the UK left the EU and still wanted to remain in the European Free Trade Association (EFTA) like Switzerland and Norway, it would still have to pay.

It's a big assumption that voters would be okay with paying for EFTA membership if they had no say over the rules. Trade with the EU would certainly drop but membership dues wouldn't, would that be okay with the electorate? There are so many questions that economists need to attempt to answer. Far more information is needed if Britons are to make an informed choice. It's scary that the vote is so soon and so little is known or understood.

I think a lot have already made their minds up and no matter what Dave thinks he has an agreement, no matter what scare stories are put about they will not change their minds, they like so many will vote out. They have seen how things have evolved, how every EU directive and law just makes every closer union the norm and they dont like it.

[SgtRock]

nong38, on 07 Feb 2016 - 22:38, said:

jadee, on 26 Dec 2015 - 11:04, said:

The case for the UK leaving seems appealing at first but it's deeply flawed. I'm not sure whether voters who say they want to leave realize the implications. Yes, the UK frequently contributes more to the EU than it gets out (10bn Euros more in 2013) but if the UK left the EU and still wanted to remain in the European Free Trade Association (EFTA) like Switzerland and Norway, it would still have to pay.

It's a big assumption that voters would be okay with paying for EFTA membership if they had no say over the rules. Trade with the EU would certainly drop but membership dues wouldn't, would that be okay with the electorate? There are so many questions that economists need to attempt to answer. Far more information is needed if Britons are to make an informed choice. It's scary that the vote is so soon and so little is known or understood.

I think a lot have already made their minds up and no matter what Dave thinks he has an agreement, no matter what scare stories are put about they will not change their minds, they like so many will vote out. They have seen how things have evolved, how every EU directive and law just makes every closer union the norm and they dont like it.

Dave's agreement. That would be the one that he has been shouting is great for Britain, is irreversible and legally binding.

Well it seems Dave is talking out of the wrong orifice. On Friday, according to Sky news, the European Parliament President had this to say.

I asked him is the deal is "legally binding and irreversible" which is what the PM had claimed.

President Schulz replied: "Nothing in our lives is irreversible. Therefore legally binding decisions are also reversible - nothing is irreversible.

http://news.sky.com/story/1636822/brussels-guardian-causes-cameron-headache

You really could not make this stuff up.

[nontabury]

Yes you are right all over 60, but they will turn up and vote!

The problem is that the media are generally supporting the status quo and so its looks very close on paper, someone could be in for a shock and be ill prepared for departure.

There are those also who think that if its an "out" win that the HMG will say we did not understand what we were voting for please have another think and try to get it right this time! Remember Ireland, France and the Netherlands recently?

It is to be hoped that whatever the result that the loser accepts the view of the British Public and facilitates their wishes.

Re your last paragraph. In the event that the electorate are conned into remaining in the EU, what do you think may happens if in a couple of years down the road, when they then realise what has happened. Could even more abandoned ship or will there be riots and perhaps civil war.

[SgtRock]

Cameron is losing the plot.

David Cameron is to warn that a Brexit would leave Britain vulnerable to terror attacks and that migrant camps will spring up across the South East of England.

The Prime Minister will make national security issues the centrepiece of his campaign to keep Britain in the European Union.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12145781/David-Cameron-warns-of-migrant-camps-in-southern-England-if-Brexit-vote.html

He has no idea that the Island that is known as the UK is relatively easy to defend compared to the open and porous borders of mainland Europe.

Migrant camps will only spring up if you allow them to spring up.

[nong38]

The problem, as I see it is that if its an "out" vote how the HMG will handle this news they did not want to hear, because they dont seem to have been planning for it, they should have anyway and also as a ploy to get more from the EU. I am not sure they will want to exit even if its an "out" vote and will try and wriggle out of it on technicalities and spurious reasons why we would not be able leave as easily as that. EG the EU might come up with some exit fee and then the PM has to come back to us and ask us if we really meant to leave. In that case he would be playing with fire, IMO, there might be riots, people might want to leave the country, a few maybe, really all the people want is control of their own country back where it belongs, in the UK. If the Scots want to stay with them they will need another referendum and if they want to go then its their decision and I am sad but fine with that, the oil is not worth much now is it to run the country?

We are a not a tin pot 3rd world outfit, we know how to do things, how things work and are trusted throughout the world, we should not be afraid of the challenges outside of the EU, we have always been a world trader and been successful, the EU will miss us more than they know, its their choice a swell, they could have kept us in but they took the pXXs too often for too long and never saw it coming.

Interesting times ahead as Dave tries to persuade people to back this momentous deal or load of rubbish depending on how you look at it.

[nontabury]

The case for the UK leaving seems appealing at first but it's deeply flawed. I'm not sure whether voters who say they want to leave realize the implications. Yes, the UK frequently contributes more to the EU than it gets out (10bn Euros more in 2013) but if the UK left the EU and still wanted to remain in the European Free Trade Association (EFTA) like Switzerland and Norway, it would still have to pay.

It's a big assumption that voters would be okay with paying for EFTA membership if they had no say over the rules. Trade with the EU would certainly drop but membership dues wouldn't, would that be okay with the electorate? There are so many questions that economists need to attempt to answer. Far more information is needed if Britons are to make an informed choice. It's scary that the vote is so soon and so little is known or understood.

So you are OK with the UK paying £55 million Each day into this organisation, an organisation that has failed to have It's books audited for over 20 years. At the moment the UK buys billions more each year than it sells to the EU, so please explain to me why would trade drop,remember the EU NEEDS the UK, not the other way around.

Why do you think it's scary that the vote may take place so soon. This has been on the cards for years, in fact Cameron promised to hold this very referendum years back,another of his lies.

Are the electorate well informed, well probably not. The big business owed newspapers have so far promoted our staying in. As has the political elite in London. The Eurocrats in Brussels are naturally supporting our remaining in, just think of how much revenue they would be down in the event of an exit vote, they have even put UK money into British universities, and then threatened them if they were to supportive of an exit.

As for the policies on boarder control,check out how many immigrants where estimated to come into the UK, and how many actually came,this is even before Turkey joins the EU.

[emilymat]

Whatever the outcome, the sub plots will be fascinating during the run up to the vote.

Yesterday I watched the Andrew Marr show on BBC1, where the only UKIP member was interviewed. When asked "Isn't it odd that Nigel Farange sits in the EU Parliament but wants out" his reply, quite rightly was "There are over 50 SNP members sitting in the HOC wanting the same thing". Pretty true eh! I wonder if there is a secret wish for many Scots for a 'no' vote so they can trigger a new independence referendum?. Mind you, the UK would have to vote No to remain and Scotland vote Yes. Bit of a dilemna for some Scottish voters.

Also, as a previous poster has mentioned, many people have made up their minds ages ago and will not change. I just hope ex pats living here have made arrangements to vote. I assume Nong38's 11 mates are only here for the winter.

There was talk of Boris Johnson being involved with the 'out' campaign but I suspect he will support 'in' as he will not want to rock the boat before his succession campaign to DC gets going. The same applies to May and Osborne etc.

I think us mere mortals are in for mega propaganda over the next few months, so maybe those who have already made up their minds are in the best position.

[brewsterbudgen]

Whatever the outcome, the sub plots will be fascinating during the run up to the vote.

Yesterday I watched the Andrew Marr show on BBC1, where the only UKIP member was interviewed. When asked "Isn't it odd that Nigel Farange sits in the EU Parliament but wants out" his reply, quite rightly was "There are over 50 SNP members sitting in the HOC wanting the same thing". Pretty true eh! I wonder if there is a secret wish for many Scots for a 'no' vote so they can trigger a new independence referendum?. Mind you, the UK would have to vote No to remain and Scotland vote Yes. Bit of a dilemna for some Scottish voters.

Also, as a previous poster has mentioned, many people have made up their minds ages ago and will not change. I just hope ex pats living here have made arrangements to vote. I assume Nong38's 11 mates are only here for the winter.

There was talk of Boris Johnson being involved with the 'out' campaign but I suspect he will support 'in' as he will not want to rock the boat before his succession campaign to DC gets going. The same applies to May and Osborne etc.

I think us mere mortals are in for mega propaganda over the next few months, so maybe those who have already made up their minds are in the best position.

I'm in!

[emilymat]

Here we go!

Today No10 have today announced that exit from the EU will lead to thousand of migrants on the south coast ala. Calais, as the Frnch will pull out of the agreement for our border agency bods operating on French soil.

Jeez....they are already getting the propaganda in before any of the cabinet or government ministers are allowed to speak publicly in support of exit.

It's gonna get dirty................

[nontabury]

Here we go!

Today No10 have today announced that exit from the EU will lead to thousand of migrants on the south coast ala. Calais, as the Frnch will pull out of the agreement for our border agency bods operating on French soil.

Jeez....they are already getting the propaganda in before any of the cabinet or government ministers are allowed to speak publicly in support of exit.

It's gonna get dirty................

Completely agree.

Obviously No 10 is unaware that the UK is an island,therefore easily protected IF there is the will power.

[SgtRock]

Foreign Secretary predicts a 'contagion' of other European counties could call for their own referendums if Britain left the EU

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12156432/Brexit-would-see-Europe-lurch-very-much-in-the-wrong-direction-Philip-Hammond-warns.html

Just as I said on the other thread.

There is an interactive poll in the article. 62,000 people have responded and it is currently sitting at 80% leave, 20% remain.

[nong38]

I saw an article last week in the UK press about some think tank forecasting what the world would like in 10 years time, these are of course great fun games that someone is paying for but interesting non the less.

The USA to become a more isolationist country was one but the the interesting bit nearer to home was what would happen to Europe and the thoughts were different.

The forecast was that Europe would end up in 4 parts, the Scandanavians, the Eastern lot, the Western lot and the British Isles.

[nong38]

The deal is done, Dave thinks he can sell the deal done to the cabinet at a meeting on Saturday, today! Its not what he wanted but is it enough, we wait for the small print and see what the cabinet thinks.

Earlier this week on Youtube I watched a film called the Booze Cruise about a group of Brits going to France to get the booze, a very funny fim set in about 2005 I think, at that time things in the EU were different, no problems with immigrants, lots of cheap drinks to be had, its was then justa case of keeping this ever closer union away and stop fiddling about with over riding our own laws and that abuse of the Human Rights issue, how things have changed in the last 10 years.

Well now that the dust is settling we await the great debate with an expected referendum date of Thursday the 23rd of June.

[nong38]

After now reading some of the UK press this morning it seems that some of the Brussels Beaurocrats are still going to campaign against the deal and the MEPs have the power to veto the deal anyway!

Thats the big problem as I see it, you think you have deal whether you like it or not and then someone else can just disregard it, there are those in the EU who seem to think they can do whatever they wish regardless of anything else, so even though we think we know what we are voting on others will have the final say, the referendum will be done, we vot in on the terms agreed only to find they have been changed afterwards and there is nothing we can then do about it!

Regardless of what has been agreed I dont trust them to fulfill their part of the bargain, so I still remain in the view that we should leave and seek our future otstide of the EU.

I continue to believe that the UK is a great survive and will thrive outside of the EU. Our influence will be our influence and ours alone not having to account for the 28 other Eurovision countries views, nor will we have to be the USAs voice in Europe either, that the only reason they want us to stay in.

We will do our deals in a straightforward manner and look forward to a new future, it will not be easy for a few years until we find and cement ( we invented that you know ) the new ways but Europe will find they will miss us more than we will miss them.

The next 5 months are going to be living in interesting times. Power to the people!

[rwdrwdrwd]

Group is going well..

3 members.

Technically it's 2, since one of the members is also the admin.

Member number 2 is Chinese of course.

[evadgib]

Irish dissidents will use the Irish Border like Capone's lot did during prohibition if we, as expected, pull out.

(Booze, Fags, People, Women, Fuel, Vehicles, Arms/Ammo, Livestock & whatever I might have missed!)

I'm in the 'out' camp but this will need to be looked at carefully.

[nong38]

The scaremongering has begun with security top of the shop so lets bunk this straight away. Whether we are in or out we will still be in contact with security services on the continent, that is in all our interests. The UKs closest security partners are the the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, collectively known as "eyes" they are not part of the EU and that will still continue whether we are in or out. You will probably have noticed they are all former colonies and speak English, I wonder why we dont import any continentals into the "Eyes" apart from the more you have the more likely there are to be leaks, why?

When we talk about security have a look at what % our chums over the channel contribute to their own defence, then try and find out what is the strength of their armed forces and how ready they are, if you wonder what I am getting at have a look at the Luftwaffe and see how many of their planes are fit to fly, stronger together, really? The EU hides behind the NATO cloak, which really means us and the Americans with a few token jestures from the rest. The only other force worth thinking about are the French and they cannot defend Europe on their own, still we do have an army of refugees and Asylum seekers with time on their hands.

Edited February 20, 2016 by nong38

[TommyUK1960]

Will be voting to leave the incompetent, corrupt, insane European Union. June 23rd 2016. Its already a sinking ship.

If anyone can explain the benefits of the EU, please do tell.

I will be voting OUT for the benefits of my grandkids.

[bendejo]

There was an idea being kicked around in 2001 or so of the UK becoming part of NAFTA. Any news on this lately?

Best part of UK's entry into EU was that Blair didn't get his way to abandon sterling. I've always had a sneaking suspicion that the EU was Germany trying something they did more than 60 years ago with armaments, but this time with economic instruments.

[brewsterbudgen]

Will be voting to leave the incompetent, corrupt, insane European Union. June 23rd 2016. Its already a sinking ship.

If anyone can explain the benefits of the EU, please do tell.

I will be voting OUT for the benefits of my grandkids.

Economic strength, jobs, freedom to travel and live in the EU, combined forces to fight crime and terrorism. Isolation and misguided nationalism won't benefit your grandkids.

[kingalfred]

Will be voting to leave the incompetent, corrupt, insane European Union. June 23rd 2016. Its already a sinking ship.

If anyone can explain the benefits of the EU, please do tell.

I will be voting OUT for the benefits of my grandkids.

Economic strength, jobs, freedom to travel and live in the EU, combined forces to fight crime and terrorism. Isolation and misguided nationalism won't benefit your grandkids.

"fight crime and terrorism"?not a hope! Borders that leak like a sieve and Turkey to come. Its a failed experiment.

[Jip99]

Will be voting to leave the incompetent, corrupt, insane European Union. June 23rd 2016. Its already a sinking ship.

If anyone can explain the benefits of the EU, please do tell.

I will be voting OUT for the benefits of my grandkids.

Economic strength, jobs, freedom to travel and live in the EU, combined forces to fight crime and terrorism. Isolation and misguided nationalism won't benefit your grandkids.

Totally unconvincing I am afraid and the evidence thus far is against you.

The EEC was OK when it was a nice club of 9 developed countries.

Now it has gone to rat cr4p and the EU has only supported successive UK governments in failing to control their borders.

Edited February 21, 2016 by Jip99

[SgtRock]

brewsterbudgen, on 21 Feb 2016 - 08:39, said:

TommyUK1960, on 20 Feb 2016 - 23:41, said:

Will be voting to leave the incompetent, corrupt, insane European Union. June 23rd 2016. Its already a sinking ship.

If anyone can explain the benefits of the EU, please do tell.

I will be voting OUT for the benefits of my grandkids.

Economic strength, jobs, freedom to travel and live in the EU, combined forces to fight crime and terrorism. Isolation and misguided nationalism won't benefit your grandkids.

Economic strength - For who ? £ Sterling is a lot stronger than the euro. Has been around a lot longer than the euro, and will still be around when the euro is defunct.

Jobs - Whilst there are about 1.8 Million in the UK who are unemployed, the UK does not need low skilled workers. The continual rise in the UK's Black Economy can hardly be attributed to a successful jobs market. I would also have included a report that stated 21 Million people in the UK are in permanent employment, but I now cannot recall where I read it.

Freedom to travel and live in the EU - There are more Brits living, travelling and working outside the EU than there is inside the EU. That freedom of movement is becoming more of a one way street into the UK.

Fight crime - It would appear that there is a large amount of people, mainly from the Eastern side of Europe who are in the UK but are wanted in their home Countries for crimes committed there.

Terrorism - You will find that it is the UK that is the leading light in the EU in terms of fighting terrorism.

Isolation and misguided Nationalism - There is nothing isolationist or misguided Nationalism in having the ability to see and identify a clusterf@ck. Which is what the EU has become.

Hardly great reasons to me for staying in the EU.

[Bernard Flint]

Just offer free ciggies and booze, everyone will vote for Cameron