Missing-and-found Brit paraded by cops, 'apologizes' to Thais

[silverado]

Somehow I think his story was genuine. Then when it made the news the police concocted all this other nonsense and PR.

Somehow I think you'd be a good Sci-fi writer.

or escaped from the same mental hospital as the paraded sick baboon

[lostinisaan]

Boy wants drama...boy gets drama.

Tit for T.A.T.

I suppose all the attacks on Brits this year have brought alot of pressure on Thailand to take action. So they did. This case was easy, though.

I don't know if it is because they are easy targets, or otherwise obnoxious...but Brits have sure been taking on alot of public humiliation this year. I would recommend they tread carefully.

All these Brits and other Westerners, stop walking through the streets and shopping malls drunk and showing

off your fat ugly tattooed bodies, then you might get more respect from the Thais.

Like Thais dont do the same thing??? You dont live in Thailand do you?

I don't recall seeing shirtless Thai guys walking around the streets and malls, although there may be the odd exception, unless they are workmen.

I had the "bad luck" and a shirt and Panty- less girl shot with Ping Pong Balls on/at me and made hit me hard.

Edited December 19, 2015 by lostinisaan

[baboon]

Somehow I think his story was genuine. Then when it made the news the police concocted all this other nonsense and PR.

Somehow I think you'd be a good Sci-fi writer.

or escaped from the same mental hospital as the paraded sick baboon

I beg your pardon?

[lostinisaan]

Somehow I think his story was genuine. Then when it made the news the police concocted all this other nonsense and PR.

Somehow I think you'd be a good Sci-fi writer.

or escaped from the same mental hospital as the paraded sick baboon

I beg your pardon?

Another "magic mushroom victim" on TVF.

[silverado]

Somehow I think his story was genuine. Then when it made the news the police concocted all this other nonsense and PR.

Somehow I think you'd be a good Sci-fi writer.

or escaped from the same mental hospital as the paraded sick baboon

I beg your pardon?

hum

i hope everyone will understand about whom i spoke

[cyberfarang]

Was he obliged to do this to avoid criminal charges?

Unsure, did he break a law ?

Did that idiot think it was all a game?

He should have been charged for wasting police time, heavily fined, can`t pay then imprisoned.

[lostinisaan]

Was he obliged to do this to avoid criminal charges?

Unsure, did he break a law ?

Did that idiot think it was all a game?

He should have been charged for wasting police time, heavily fined, can`t pay then imprisoned.

Imprisoned into a Cyberworld with artificial cyber food and cyber sex?

[AhFarangJa]

What a complete moronic oxygen waster. Cannot even wear a baseball cap in the way it was designed. Probably wears his jeans half way down his a**e with his underpants showing. Makes me wonder how he managed to get here in the first place without a responsible adult. My commiserations to his parents.

Rant Over, Thank you.

[ClutchClark]

Sorry, i missed that, what did he apologize to the thai people for?

For being a dick

Priceless.

[ravip]

Instead of going on a Thai bashing spree, why not these intelligent beings do these things at home?

Disgusting, to say the least.

[Squeegee]

First and foremost you seem to have admitted that you made an incredibly insensitive and self damning remark by saying how awful Thailand is: you live here do you? If so, why? If Thailand is so awful then do yourself a favour and go home. Like many people I have been here by choice for a long time. The country is not perfect but neither is my home country. I am guest here and whilst I might have my complaints of things that happen here I never do what you did.

Secondly, you have completely missed the point of my post in which I talk about something other than the boy and I want to know what double standards you are talking about? This young man did something idiotic that involved a number of people and caused his family a lot of grief. Moreover, the British Consulate were involved in some way as were the RTP. Where I come from the man has been guilty of wasting police time and resources at the very least.

Don't you understand that the Thais do not want more and more loafers doing this kind of thing? So they have made an example of the man and good for them. You might think it heavy handed and you might think they are not being fair but that's because you started talking in this thread in an angry and biased way and you haven't changed since then.

I don't need to be an apologist for anyone or anything to hold the views I hold. In discussions over my life I have vehemently disagreed with someone one day and wholeheartedly supported them the following day. If you think that makes me an apologist, well, that's something else you don't understand

"...you seem to have admitted that you made an incredibly insensitive and self damning remark..."

You don't understand very well, do you? No, I said although it seems I am being unfair on Thailand I am making the point that the police - who represent their country - are doing their own country a disservice that reflects on the country as a whole.

"...you live here do you? If so, why?"

None of your business where I live, but I'll bite: I left Thailand earlier this year and have every right to express my opinion no matter where I am.

Furthermore, you are against free speech and an anti-intellectual to attempt to silence people of differing opinions to your own by effectively telling them to shut up or get out. Whether I am in or out of Thailand matters not and you should be embarrassed for yourself to claim if there's something we don't like in a country we should be silent or go home. This attitude is consistantly seen on this forum by anti-intellectuals like you who want to stifle the expression of others.

"...and whilst I might have my complaints of things that happen here I never do what you did."

No, you are much worse: see above.

Not only that, but left up to you nothing would ever change, you are no better than the person in my signature calling for people to stop being critical for the sake of your own quiet life. These people (police, government, monks) represent something and that is how they and their country will be judged. That is my point by being so harsh but it obviously sails over your head.

"...you have completely missed the point of my post in which I talk about something other than the boy and I want to know what double standards you are talking about? This young man did something idiotic that involved a number of people and caused his family a lot of grief. Moreover, the British Consulate were involved in some way as were the RTP. Where I come from the man has been guilty of wasting police time and resources at the very least."

Indeed, there is much flying over your head, like the irony that you say you talk of other things than the boy and go on to talk about the boy! No wonder you are a part of the anti-intellectual brigade with the 'If you don't like it, get out' mantra. I will not repeat the double standards numerously mentioned in this thread and even as a direct response to you already.

"Don't you understand that the Thais do not want more and more loafers doing this kind of thing?"

Not a question, a statement: you are not understanding that does not give them the right to treat others with moralizing based on something they don't adhere to themselves.

"So they have made an example of the man and good for them."

Your morality is nothing but mindless apologism as we next see:

"You might think it heavy handed and you might think they are not being fair but..."

Yes, I do think they are not being fair, except it is not the boy to whom I think they are being unfair, it is to my country and my people. If you think there's an issue with that then you reveal yourself with exactly the same double standards as the Thais. And let me add here that I refer to 'the Thais' precisely because of the way those who represent behave. There are no more excuses for Thai police, government and supposed 'Thai culture' - they should take responsibility for themselves before they parade some silly kid in front of the world for being irresponsible.

"...that's because you started talking in this thread in an angry and biased way and you haven't changed since then."

Really? You mean when in discussion with someone who says 'If you don't like it, go home'? Note when possum1931 picked up on my post that I wasn't "angry and biased" with him because he actually made a fair point worth answering.

"I don't need to be an apologist for anyone or anything to hold the views I hold. In discussions over my life I have vehemently disagreed with someone one day and wholeheartedly supported them the following day. If you think that makes me an apologist, well, that's something else you don't understand"

That's lovely for you. I might say the same thing. It doesn't make what you just said any more relevant: I said you are an apologist for focusing on the lad and conveniently ignoring yet another example of Thailand treating its guests with disdain.

I also think the kid should have been fined and deported. That would have shown more professionalism on the Thai authorities' part, instead they show us that Thailand deserves the leader it currently has: do as I say, not as I do.

Edited December 20, 2015 by Squeegee

[F4UCorsair]

Loser, tosser, clown!! What a shame we can't legislate against stupidity.

[todlad]

First and foremost you seem to have admitted that you made an incredibly insensitive and self damning remark by saying how awful Thailand is: you live here do you? If so, why? If Thailand is so awful then do yourself a favour and go home. Like many people I have been here by choice for a long time. The country is not perfect but neither is my home country. I am guest here and whilst I might have my complaints of things that happen here I never do what you did.

Secondly, you have completely missed the point of my post in which I talk about something other than the boy and I want to know what double standards you are talking about? This young man did something idiotic that involved a number of people and caused his family a lot of grief. Moreover, the British Consulate were involved in some way as were the RTP. Where I come from the man has been guilty of wasting police time and resources at the very least.

Don't you understand that the Thais do not want more and more loafers doing this kind of thing? So they have made an example of the man and good for them. You might think it heavy handed and you might think they are not being fair but that's because you started talking in this thread in an angry and biased way and you haven't changed since then.

I don't need to be an apologist for anyone or anything to hold the views I hold. In discussions over my life I have vehemently disagreed with someone one day and wholeheartedly supported them the following day. If you think that makes me an apologist, well, that's something else you don't understand

"...you seem to have admitted that you made an incredibly insensitive and self damning remark..."

You don't understand very well, do you? No, I said although it seems I am being unfair on Thailand I am making the point that the police - who represent their country - are doing their own country a disservice that reflects on the country as a whole.

"...you live here do you? If so, why?"

None of your business where I live, but I'll bite: I left Thailand earlier this year and have every right to express my opinion no matter where I am.

Furthermore, you are against free speech and an anti-intellectual to attempt to silence people of differing opinions to your own by effectively telling them to shut up or get out. Whether I am in or out of Thailand matters not and you should be embarrassed for yourself to claim if there's something we don't like in a country we should be silent or go home. This attitude is consistantly seen on this forum by anti-intellectuals like you who want to stifle the expression of others.

"...and whilst I might have my complaints of things that happen here I never do what you did."

No, you are much worse: see above.

Not only that, but left up to you nothing would ever change, you are no better than the person in my signature calling for people to stop being critical for the sake of your own quiet life. These people (police, government, monks) represent something and that is how they and their country will be judged. That is my point by being so harsh but it obviously sails over your head.

"...you have completely missed the point of my post in which I talk about something other than the boy and I want to know what double standards you are talking about? This young man did something idiotic that involved a number of people and caused his family a lot of grief. Moreover, the British Consulate were involved in some way as were the RTP. Where I come from the man has been guilty of wasting police time and resources at the very least."

Indeed, there is much flying over your head, like the irony that you say you talk of other things than the boy and go on to talk about the boy! No wonder you are a part of the anti-intellectual brigade with the 'If you don't like it, get out' mantra. I will not repeat the double standards numerously mentioned in this thread and even as a direct response to you already.

"Don't you understand that the Thais do not want more and more loafers doing this kind of thing?"

Not a question, a statement: you are not understanding that does not give them the right to treat others with moralizing based on something they don't adhere to themselves.

"So they have made an example of the man and good for them."

Your morality is nothing but mindless apologism as we next see:

"You might think it heavy handed and you might think they are not being fair but..."

Yes, I do think they are not being fair, except it is not the boy to whom I think they are being unfair, it is to my country and my people. If you think there's an issue with that then you reveal yourself with exactly the same double standards as the Thais. And let me add here that I refer to 'the Thais' precisely because of the way those who represent behave. There are no more excuses for Thai police, government and supposed 'Thai culture' - they should take responsibility for themselves before they parade some silly kid in front of the world for being irresponsible.

"...that's because you started talking in this thread in an angry and biased way and you haven't changed since then."

Really? You mean when in discussion with someone who says 'If you don't like it, go home'? Note when possum1931 picked up on my post that I wasn't "angry and biased" with him because he actually made a fair point worth answering.

"I don't need to be an apologist for anyone or anything to hold the views I hold. In discussions over my life I have vehemently disagreed with someone one day and wholeheartedly supported them the following day. If you think that makes me an apologist, well, that's something else you don't understand"

That's lovely for you. I might say the same thing. It doesn't make what you just said any more relevant: I said you are an apologist for focusing on the lad and conveniently ignoring yet another example of Thailand treating its guests with disdain.

I also think the kid should have been fined and deported. That would have shown more professionalism on the Thai authorities' part, instead they show us that Thailand deserves the leader it currently has: do as I say, not as I do.

Let's get the psychology out of the way first: no one is anti intellectual and against free speech here. What you are angry about is that you are being challenged: I am guessing that you don't countenance opposition very much. That's your problem. Secondly, there is nothing wrong with my understanding of anything you have written. As a non Thai it is my opinion, did you get that, my opinion, that you went much further than merely attacking the police in this case and you only explained your view on the RTP as an afterthought, when you felt the need to explain the remark that I called insensitive and self damning. You don't agree: fine.

By refusing to be challenged, you suggest that I am trying to silence you: again, believe that as you wish. I don't know where you live and it's not my business but I will guarantee one thing: if any non native to your country turned up and started telling you how bad it was there ... I know what you would do and say. It's not a matter of what you say it's a matter of when and how you say it. Again, I received your comments as way over the top and in that case I felt and feel you were wrong to say what you did as you did. In other circumstances, within your family in discussions with neighbours and colleagues, that is probably a different story. Megaphone diplomacy is no diplomacy. Nothing has sailed over my head: I know how to behave and when and how to be critical.

You are feeling threatened on behalf of your country and your people: wow! You think the RTP did something so heinous? You are angry aren't you!

I noticed your reaction to possum1931 although I didn't mention it in my response yesterday: this is why I have said what I have said, when someone agrees with you, you are very happy; but when challenged, it's a red rag to a bull. Your problem again.

Finally, you are being very parochial in your views: they are not the views of someone who has lived contentedly in a foreign country. Something has got under your skin and it is doing you no favours. Sorry for that.

[Squeegee]

Let's get the psychology out of the way first: no one is anti intellectual and against free speech here. What you are angry about is that you are being challenged: I am guessing that you don't countenance opposition very much. That's your problem. Secondly, there is nothing wrong with my understanding of anything you have written. As a non Thai it is my opinion, did you get that, my opinion, that you went much further than merely attacking the police in this case and you only explained your view on the RTP as an afterthought, when you felt the need to explain the remark that I called insensitive and self damning. You don't agree: fine.

By refusing to be challenged, you suggest that I am trying to silence you: again, believe that as you wish. I don't know where you live and it's not my business but I will guarantee one thing: if any non native to your country turned up and started telling you how bad it was there ... I know what you would do and say. It's not a matter of what you say it's a matter of when and how you say it. Again, I received your comments as way over the top and in that case I felt and feel you were wrong to say what you did as you did. In other circumstances, within your family in discussions with neighbours and colleagues, that is probably a different story. Megaphone diplomacy is no diplomacy. Nothing has sailed over my head: I know how to behave and when and how to be critical.

You are feeling threatened on behalf of your country and your people: wow! You think the RTP did something so heinous? You are angry aren't you!

I noticed your reaction to possum1931 although I didn't mention it in my response yesterday: this is why I have said what I have said, when someone agrees with you, you are very happy; but when challenged, it's a red rag to a bull. Your problem again.

Finally, you are being very parochial in your views: they are not the views of someone who has lived contentedly in a foreign country. Something has got under your skin and it is doing you no favours. Sorry for that.

"Let's get the psychology out of the way first: no one is anti intellectual and against free speech here."

You needn't waffle about psychology, it has nothing to do with it, much as you irrelevantly try and fail to analyse me in your desperation to prevent me from giving my opinion. By telling me I should not be in Thailand if I say something you don't like you are indeed against freedom of speech, even if you unfortunately cannot see it.

"What you are angry about is that you are being challenged..."

Actually, I am not angry about anything. I'm currently enjoying a nice Vietnamese sandwich but a little frustrated to come back yet again responding to these silly claims and assumptions. I can likewise say you are stubborn, don't like to hear others' opinions and can't stand to not have the last word. See what I mean? It's just stupid and it has nothing to do with anything important. So can you rise above it?

How about addressing the issue I raise about Thailand's image instead of attempting a character assassination? Look again at your post and notice you are here to talk about me, not the issues. Continue on like this and you will be ignored next time.

"I am guessing that you don't countenance opposition very much. That's your problem."

No, I simply cannot find respect for you after you began your first post in this thread by insulting me. To take a leaf out of your own playbook, you seem jealous, quite frankly, to have taken it upon yourself to bring me down a peg. Such is your "psychology".

"Secondly, there is nothing wrong with my understanding of anything you have written."

Au contraire! Here is another example of this lack in comprehension:

"I noticed your reaction to possum1931 [...] when someone agrees with you, you are very happy..."

He did not agree with me, but what he did do was oblige me to show him respect by making a reasonable point on the issue we are supposed to be talking about and in a decent manner. That's a galaxy away from starting by calling me a "wally" like how you began in the topic.

"As a non Thai it is my opinion [...] that you went much further than merely attacking the police in this case and you only explained your view on the RTP as an afterthought, when you felt the need to explain the remark that I called insensitive and self damning. You don't agree: fine."

You are in this case correct. This is my stance. I am deeply indebted to Thai people for giving me opportunities and experiences that I may never have had elsewhere, amazing situations well beyond the scope of Sukhumvit Road and Pattaya. I am a man of passion, so I blame Thai powers that be for Thailand's ills and I want them to see that how they behave effects all Thai people.

I wasn't clear on this initially - on purpose - but Mr Possum so disarmingly drew me out that I had to openly admit my beef. I'm sorry that my posting style is not straightforward enough for you, but it's not really aimed at you. If you had come into this thread more reasonably I would also have explained this to you before now. Our current time wasting and pointless engagement is more my fault than yours, for sure, just because I don't go about pandering to the lowest common denominator (that's not a specific reference to you) by making everything crystal clear.

If you still don't understand, allow me to use the example of so many posters here who go for sarcasm when criticising something they don't like, for instance: 'Ah but we are just foreigners and we don't understand...' To my mind that makes us seem like we are crying and whining and weak. I prefer to go in another direction and say 'Hey Thailand, why are you so horrible?' seemingly damning the whole country with the same brush in order to place in black & white that the behaviour of a certain few is affecting all. This is something the Thais seem to take seriously - Thais damaging their own reputation - so for me it is a viable point of entry for expressing my discontent, and express I will, and nobody will tell me to go home and not get told something themselves.

"By refusing to be challenged..."

Just wishful thinking on your part, that I am so easily categorized and packed away. Next time, come into a topic calling someone a wally if they really are a wally, because there are those of us who do think about what we say even if it appears otherwise.

"...you suggest that I am trying to silence you: again, believe that as you wish."

I don't believe it, I know it: you effectively told me to shut up or go home. Don't you realize how inane that is, and that it goes against intelligent discourse and even human rights? It's the whore-monging barstool drunk's clever retort and I think you should be above it every bit as much as you probably still think I should be above my tactic of allowing bad people to tarnish all of a country.

"I will guarantee one thing: if any non native to your country turned up and started telling you how bad it was there ... I know what you would do and say."

This is utterly preposterous. The less you know, Mr todlad, the more you think you know, is all I'm going to say to that.

"It's not a matter of what you say it's a matter of when and how you say it."

You very nearly engage the issue instead of fantasizing about me.

"Again, I received your comments as way over the top and in that case I felt and feel you were wrong to say what you did as you did."

And that's fair enough. I already explained (above) why I said what I did as I did. I expect you to still think it is the wrong approach and that's fine. I'm not looking for joining hands and singing kumbaya, quite the contrary. Let everyone have a fair crack at life first. I'll be an incorrigible idealist 'til the day I die or the world is a better place.

"In other circumstances, within your family in discussions with neighbours and colleagues, that is probably a different story."

I disagree. Now is precisely the time for speaking out... and not being told to go home of I don't like it. I am lucky because I can speak out, so I will do so for those who can't.

"Megaphone diplomacy is no diplomacy."

Note the American the other day, some corporate lackey speaking for the seafood industry saying sanctions are not the answer because then we cannot threaten sanctions. That is diplomacy. The EU and US as a whole are somewhat better, but are fast becoming something similar unless they really show some teeth. Diplomacy is increasingly inappropriate for Thailand, megaphone or not.

"You are feeling threatened on behalf of your country and your people: wow! You think the RTP did something so heinous? You are angry aren't you!"

More incomprehension, misguided waffle and interpersonal fantasizing. Moving on....

"Finally, you are being very parochial in your views: they are not the views of someone who has lived contentedly in a foreign country. Something has got under your skin and it is doing you no favours. Sorry for that."

No, they are not the views of someone who has lived contentedly in a foreign country because I am a real person in a real world where not everything is perfect but many things can be improved. I may not be rich enough to eradicate poverty, even for a single individual; I may not be strong enough to remove an oppressor but the least I and everyone can do is to give a sh!t. If we do not try to improve our lot we are the walking dead.

[baboon]

"No, they are not the views of someone who has lived contentedly in a foreign country because I am a real person in a real world where not everything is perfect but many things can be improved. I may not be rich enough to eradicate poverty, even for a single individual; I may not be strong enough to remove an oppressor but the least I and everyone can do is to give a sh!t. If we do not try to improve our lot we are the walking dead."

One of the sagest paragraphs I have read on here in a good while. Very well put.

[fey]

They really hung this youngster out to dry LOL

[smotherb]

Sorry, i missed that, what did he apologize to the thai people for?

the dark references in his messages to a local Thai man who “would not let him leave”

Well, that may have been before someone threw cold water on them so they could separate.

[smotherb]

Loser, tosser, clown!! What a shame we can't legislate against stupidity.

Maybe we could just legislate against warning labels and let the problem sort itself.

[todlad]

Let's get the psychology out of the way first: no one is anti intellectual and against free speech here. What you are angry about is that you are being challenged: I am guessing that you don't countenance opposition very much. That's your problem. Secondly, there is nothing wrong with my understanding of anything you have written. As a non Thai it is my opinion, did you get that, my opinion, that you went much further than merely attacking the police in this case and you only explained your view on the RTP as an afterthought, when you felt the need to explain the remark that I called insensitive and self damning. You don't agree: fine.

By refusing to be challenged, you suggest that I am trying to silence you: again, believe that as you wish. I don't know where you live and it's not my business but I will guarantee one thing: if any non native to your country turned up and started telling you how bad it was there ... I know what you would do and say. It's not a matter of what you say it's a matter of when and how you say it. Again, I received your comments as way over the top and in that case I felt and feel you were wrong to say what you did as you did. In other circumstances, within your family in discussions with neighbours and colleagues, that is probably a different story. Megaphone diplomacy is no diplomacy. Nothing has sailed over my head: I know how to behave and when and how to be critical.

You are feeling threatened on behalf of your country and your people: wow! You think the RTP did something so heinous? You are angry aren't you!

I noticed your reaction to possum1931 although I didn't mention it in my response yesterday: this is why I have said what I have said, when someone agrees with you, you are very happy; but when challenged, it's a red rag to a bull. Your problem again.

Finally, you are being very parochial in your views: they are not the views of someone who has lived contentedly in a foreign country. Something has got under your skin and it is doing you no favours. Sorry for that.

"Let's get the psychology out of the way first: no one is anti intellectual and against free speech here."

You needn't waffle about psychology, it has nothing to do with it, much as you irrelevantly try and fail to analyse me in your desperation to prevent me from giving my opinion. By telling me I should not be in Thailand if I say something you don't like you are indeed against freedom of speech, even if you unfortunately cannot see it.

"What you are angry about is that you are being challenged..."

Actually, I am not angry about anything. I'm currently enjoying a nice Vietnamese sandwich but a little frustrated to come back yet again responding to these silly claims and assumptions. I can likewise say you are stubborn, don't like to hear others' opinions and can't stand to not have the last word. See what I mean? It's just stupid and it has nothing to do with anything important. So can you rise above it?

How about addressing the issue I raise about Thailand's image instead of attempting a character assassination? Look again at your post and notice you are here to talk about me, not the issues. Continue on like this and you will be ignored next time.

"I am guessing that you don't countenance opposition very much. That's your problem."

No, I simply cannot find respect for you after you began your first post in this thread by insulting me. To take a leaf out of your own playbook, you seem jealous, quite frankly, to have taken it upon yourself to bring me down a peg. Such is your "psychology".

"Secondly, there is nothing wrong with my understanding of anything you have written."

Au contraire! Here is another example of this lack in comprehension:

"I noticed your reaction to possum1931 [...] when someone agrees with you, you are very happy..."

He did not agree with me, but what he did do was oblige me to show him respect by making a reasonable point on the issue we are supposed to be talking about and in a decent manner. That's a galaxy away from starting by calling me a "wally" like how you began in the topic.

"As a non Thai it is my opinion [...] that you went much further than merely attacking the police in this case and you only explained your view on the RTP as an afterthought, when you felt the need to explain the remark that I called insensitive and self damning. You don't agree: fine."

You are in this case correct. This is my stance. I am deeply indebted to Thai people for giving me opportunities and experiences that I may never have had elsewhere, amazing situations well beyond the scope of Sukhumvit Road and Pattaya. I am a man of passion, so I blame Thai powers that be for Thailand's ills and I want them to see that how they behave effects all Thai people.

I wasn't clear on this initially - on purpose - but Mr Possum so disarmingly drew me out that I had to openly admit my beef. I'm sorry that my posting style is not straightforward enough for you, but it's not really aimed at you. If you had come into this thread more reasonably I would also have explained this to you before now. Our current time wasting and pointless engagement is more my fault than yours, for sure, just because I don't go about pandering to the lowest common denominator (that's not a specific reference to you) by making everything crystal clear.

If you still don't understand, allow me to use the example of so many posters here who go for sarcasm when criticising something they don't like, for instance: 'Ah but we are just foreigners and we don't understand...' To my mind that makes us seem like we are crying and whining and weak. I prefer to go in another direction and say 'Hey Thailand, why are you so horrible?' seemingly damning the whole country with the same brush in order to place in black & white that the behaviour of a certain few is affecting all. This is something the Thais seem to take seriously - Thais damaging their own reputation - so for me it is a viable point of entry for expressing my discontent, and express I will, and nobody will tell me to go home and not get told something themselves.

"By refusing to be challenged..."

Just wishful thinking on your part, that I am so easily categorized and packed away. Next time, come into a topic calling someone a wally if they really are a wally, because there are those of us who do think about what we say even if it appears otherwise.

"...you suggest that I am trying to silence you: again, believe that as you wish."

I don't believe it, I know it: you effectively told me to shut up or go home. Don't you realize how inane that is, and that it goes against intelligent discourse and even human rights? It's the whore-monging barstool drunk's clever retort and I think you should be above it every bit as much as you probably still think I should be above my tactic of allowing bad people to tarnish all of a country.

"I will guarantee one thing: if any non native to your country turned up and started telling you how bad it was there ... I know what you would do and say."

This is utterly preposterous. The less you know, Mr todlad, the more you think you know, is all I'm going to say to that.

"It's not a matter of what you say it's a matter of when and how you say it."

You very nearly engage the issue instead of fantasizing about me.

"Again, I received your comments as way over the top and in that case I felt and feel you were wrong to say what you did as you did."

And that's fair enough. I already explained (above) why I said what I did as I did. I expect you to still think it is the wrong approach and that's fine. I'm not looking for joining hands and singing kumbaya, quite the contrary. Let everyone have a fair crack at life first. I'll be an incorrigible idealist 'til the day I die or the world is a better place.

"In other circumstances, within your family in discussions with neighbours and colleagues, that is probably a different story."

I disagree. Now is precisely the time for speaking out... and not being told to go home of I don't like it. I am lucky because I can speak out, so I will do so for those who can't.

"Megaphone diplomacy is no diplomacy."

Note the American the other day, some corporate lackey speaking for the seafood industry saying sanctions are not the answer because then we cannot threaten sanctions. That is diplomacy. The EU and US as a whole are somewhat better, but are fast becoming something similar unless they really show some teeth. Diplomacy is increasingly inappropriate for Thailand, megaphone or not.

"You are feeling threatened on behalf of your country and your people: wow! You think the RTP did something so heinous? You are angry aren't you!"

More incomprehension, misguided waffle and interpersonal fantasizing. Moving on....

"Finally, you are being very parochial in your views: they are not the views of someone who has lived contentedly in a foreign country. Something has got under your skin and it is doing you no favours. Sorry for that."

No, they are not the views of someone who has lived contentedly in a foreign country because I am a real person in a real world where not everything is perfect but many things can be improved. I may not be rich enough to eradicate poverty, even for a single individual; I may not be strong enough to remove an oppressor but the least I and everyone can do is to give a sh!t. If we do not try to improve our lot we are the walking dead.

Some of what follows may come across as patronising or school teacherish even though I am not and have never been a school teacher: it is not meant to be patronising in any way because your responses this time are a vast improvement on what you said before.

It is clear that we don't know each other in the same way that I know no one else on this forum. However, I have come across people in my career, in countries far from home, who I have suggested would be better off back at home. I have to say you gave me that impression with your first remark in this thread: you have retracted from that and explained yourself in much greater detail AND you are already back at home (I think) anyway. I don't suggest that I am Mr Perfect or the perfect expat but when someone complains so deeply about their chosen home and so on, then for their own sanity they must rethink their strategy. I had to put a colleague on suicide watch once and still he tried to convince me that he shouldn't go home!

In terms of Thailand's image abroad: your point is well made and I share it. I have lived in countries whose international image has been appalling, Afghanistan, for example; or even unknown, Kazakhstan when I went there, for example. The ordinary person, I believe, thinks Thailand is a paradise and of course it is. That there have been and are so many corrupt people and practises here is not good at all: we all know that the Bt1 billion filched through corruption represents the good road or school or hospital that cannot now be built. You know all of this. I believe the army is doing a much better job than the politicians I have known here and I believe the army could stay in power for at least 10 years in order to prepare this country for a better and more certain future. I have lived in other military dictatorships and this is a cake walk by comparison. Of course, there are people here with much longer Thai memories than me but this is what I see; hope.

As far as the RTP is concerned, I think we will never agree on their actions with Jordan, which is where all of this started. He was a stupid boy although I think we don't know full circumstances yet: I don't anyway. I don't denounce the RTP at all for what they did but you have made it plain that you did. You mentioned deportation last time: I don't think wasting police time is a deportation issue but I would certainly send him home anyway.

As far as the rest of this discussion is concerned, please read everything from the beginning: there is no point going over it all again as this part of the thread is already too long.

However, I started by criticising the contributors here who sheep like merely copied what each other was saying: my opinion was and is that they blindly all decided that the RTP was wrong and the boy was mistreated. I wasn't really bothered by what the police did or didn't do at that stage: but the Shaun the Sheep sobriquet said everything I felt: they were the wallies I mentioned and that is why I called them wallies. We see this here in these threads where someone makes a suggestion and then there is a bandwagon effect that is sometimes mindless. They add nothing to any debate and are often misguided anyway.

Am I stubborn? Very. Do I need the last word? No! Do I always think I am right? No! In fact, I believe in lifelong learning and I am always happy to be informed and educated and I learn quite a bit from this forum especially about things like visas and local customs and so on. Do I try to shut people up? No! I don't deny I am forceful and blunt sometimes but that's the way I was made. Have I ever apologised for making mistakes and upsetting people when I shouldn't? Of course!

I hope that was not too patronising and I hope I have clarified everything I might have left unclear.

[Lobber]

KNOB!

[poohy]

Kids a fool!

but while the cops are it lets get

a few scammers, taxi drivers dodgy tour guides, jet ski whatever's , insane minivan drivers and a good few Thai police to apologize to farangs as as well

[IMA_FARANG]

How was your rational judgement when you were 21 years old?

I made a lot of stupid moves when I was 21 years old. I still remember some of them.

Probably we all did.

Most of us just didn't do it on the internet for everyone to see around the world.

[Time Traveller]

He has had his 3 minutes if fame, now put him on a plane and blacklist him for wasting people's time.

He didn't commit a crime, and you want him blacklisted.??........and 34 likes ?

This forum really attracts a lot of wierdos