Sainthood for Mother Teresa confirmed after Vatican recognises second miracle

[car720]

Most of the naysayers are loser expat sex tourist types whose only positive contributions to the society in which they live, is to marry some NEP dirtbag or bung same 1000B for a roll in some sperm soaked mattress, get a job shouting English at a load of disinterested brats and then think they are the Mayor of Nakhorn Nowhere....

Perhaps if you inform us just what it is that you do here then we can respond accordingly.

[Yann55]

For those who are well aware that things (and people) are rarely what they seem to be, and who are interested in exploration beyond 'face value', here are 2 writers who are well worth consulting on the subject of Mother Teresa and her alleged sainthood :

- Christopher Hitchens

- Aroup Chatterjee

More on Wikipedia : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Mother_Teresa

[Youaredoomed]

Most of the naysayers are loser expat sex tourist types whose only positive contributions to the society in which they live, is to marry some NEP dirtbag or bung same 1000B for a roll in some sperm soaked mattress, get a job shouting English at a load of disinterested brats and then think they are the Mayor of Nakhorn Nowhere....

Perhaps if you inform us just what it is that you do here then we can respond accordingly.

What has that to do with you?

[Andaman Al]

Most of the naysayers are loser expat sex tourist types whose only positive contributions to the society in which they live, is to marry some NEP dirtbag or bung same 1000B for a roll in some sperm soaked mattress, get a job shouting English at a load of disinterested brats and then think they are the Mayor of Nakhorn Nowhere....

How disgusting. You must have a mind like a sewer to create that lot.

Now of great interest is that spidermike007 'liked' your filthy post, yet only a few posts earlier he himself contributed this to us:

I met her many years ago, on a trip to Calcutta. I asked to see her, for spiritual guidance, and she took the time to see me. She gave me a very wise answer to my dilemma at that time. She exhibited nothing but humility, kindness and sincerity.

Well spidermike007, you were right on one count if you 'like' youaredoomed's post you are definitely in need of some spiritual guidance. Her answer was clearly not wise enough because I guess you, who must claim to be a religious man (do you claim yourself virtuous?) actually 'like' one of the most disgustingly worded posts I have seen on TV. What a pity you cannot match her 'humility, kindness and sincerity'...or maybe you do!

Youaredoomed, thank you for the lesson in the type of company to avoid. Just because people disagree with the idea of beatifying this woman you come out with a disgraceful slur against them. Nice! Was it done in the pub? And to think the supporters of making this woman a Saint are people like you and spidermike007. You ironic!! Hells Angel indeed.

[Jingthing]

Well, I don't like everything the Catholic church does now or in the past, but I'm sure Mother Teresa did do a lot of good things in her very human life. So if they do saints, and they do, they could do much worse.

Happy Festivus.

Edited December 19, 2015 by Jingthing

[Andaman Al]

What a bunch of sad sack losers you people are.

Just a simple story of an older lady..who made a difference. Unlike yourselves.

Perhaps before you spout off you should consider what it is to be ill-informed.

By the way, Hitler made a difference, so considering that it should not be that term used to identify any achievements she made. it's a little shallow isn't it. Really do some background reading about what she did. The convent she had in Calcutta was a hell hole.

Mother Teresa founded the Missionaries of Charity, a Roman Catholic religious congregation, which in 2012 consisted of over 4,500 sisters and was active in 133 countries. They run hospices and homes for people with HIV/AIDS, leprosy and tuberculosis; soup kitchens; dispensaries and mobile clinics; children's and family counselling programmes; orphanages; and schools. Members must adhere to the vows of chastity, poverty, and obedience, as well as a fourth vow, to give "wholehearted free service to the poorest of the poor".

I visited her convent/orphanage in Calcutta. Compared to the rest of the city, it was pretty nice. Fairly clean, and she was helping thousands. Did you ever visit? What research are you using to make your judgment?

Hitler made a difference? You are comparing someone who devoted her life to improving the lives of the least fortunate, to a man who devoted his life to wreaking havoc, mayhem, destruction, death and injury on millions? A man who carpet bombed civilians in London? What are you thinking? Who are you? Why such a dark heart? Are you constipated? Why such animosity toward such a great soul, who made such a difference in the lives of others? What have you done lately, that rivals what she did? What have you ever done to benefit mankind?

Yes but what you are missing here is that she (and her 4500 sisters) never did anything to alleviate what were often curable conditions. They NEVER gave medicine or cures to people with HIV/AIDS or Leprosy or TB, or many many other diseases. They never even administered pain killers. They gave people a mattress to lie on and die. They frequently used the same needles on many people and when asked why they did that and not steralise needles or use fresh ones they would say 'why? whats the point? they are going to die!'. ALL these women were interested in were getting sick people on their deathbed to convert to Catholicism and in return they good lie on a mattress to die. The Nuns then happy that they were notching up another soul from another person they had got to convert.

They had access to unlimited funds, they could have opened a hospital in India to match any western hospital, they had that much money and good will, but healing them did not suit their goal. Where did the money go? A multi million dollar soup kitchen indeed. I bet if you follow the cash it go's straight to the Vatican. Their goal was , convert them and send them on their way quickly, so they would get credit for another 'soul'. As for miracles? perhaps in the 4th-16th century a miracle was easy to believe as it was 'something that just cannot be explained by medical or other means'. I look forward to seeing her medical miracle and seeing whether it cannot be explained by any other means! Still that's the issue with religious folks, you can write anything you like, just connect it to God and you will believe it without question.

By the way, No I am not comparing this woman to Hitler. Read again. Slippery seems to believe that she should be sainted for 'making a difference'. As I have stated that is hardly the criteria that Sainthood should rest on. One man's 'difference' is another man's crime. There are many that believe that what this woman did was indeed a crime.

Edited December 19, 2015 by Andaman Al

[ukrules]

The whole point of her operation was the pain of 'the poor'. She thought it was a good thing, the more pain, the better.

When this woman became ill herself she of course immediately went to an expensive private hospital for treatment.

She ran a death camp. All in the name of 'jesus' of course.

Edited December 19, 2015 by ukrules

[sirineou]

It does not upset me in the least bit,

Just another nail in the casket of religion, can't wait until they beatification of Trump

Edited December 19, 2015 by sirineou

[Scott]

A particularly nasty comment has been removed.

[nidieunimaitre]

I met her many years ago, on a trip to Calcutta. I asked to see her, for spiritual guidance, and she took the time to see me. She gave me a very wise answer to my dilemma at that time. She exhibited nothing but humility, kindness and sincerity. Some say she was a grandstander. If that was what was required to promote her orphanage, and her organization, in order to attract donations, what the hell? Who cares? I considered her a great woman, and I think she is more worthy of sainthood than most of the others that were considered. She did a lot of great work. She did make a big difference. How many true saints are out there these days?

And for the detractors, I have two questions.

1. Who else can you name, that has made the kind of impact that this women made, on so many lives of desperation, in our lifetime?

2. What great acts have you devoted yourself to, that allows you to question the lifetime of achievement, of this great woman?

QUOTE:

Who else can you name, that has made the kind of impact that this women made, on so many lives of desperation, in our lifetime?

NELSON MANDELA

But no, I do not want him to be called a saint by some religious sect.

[Morch]

I have no opinion on the whole sainthood thing. Can't see why it upsets anyone who is a non-believer.

Been to their place in Kolkata (well, Calcutta back then), a couple of times. On the first occasion, even did some volunteer work (non medical). No comments on the quality of treatment, as I don't know much about that, and obviously, graft issues were not much on my mind at the time. But this - the place was rather clean and well organized (which could count as a miracle right there, considering the location), and from everything that I witnessed, patients were treated with compassion and humility (again, considering the social surroundings, not a trivial matter). Never met Mother Theresa herself, my impressions are more to do with the people working and volunteering there.

The Wikipedia link detailing criticism of Mother Theresa got this bit near the end: "Her writings revealed that she struggled with feelings of disconnectedness that were in contrast to the strong feelings she had experienced as a young novice. In her letters Mother Teresa describes a decades long sense of feeling disconnected from God and lacking the earlier zeal which had characterized her efforts to start the Missionaries of Charity." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Mother_Teresa#Posthumous_criticisms). This sounds more like many well known NGOs and charities. Early days marked by idealism and best of intentions, with things changing as donations pour in, and things grow and get institutionalized. Might be applied to organized religion in general (or to almost any political system, as well), but that's probably a wider scope than the current topic.

There are similar organizations and charities in India, many with religious orientation. I think that most, if thoroughly investigated, will reveal instances of graft and agenda driven policies. There is also a certain amount of rivalry between organizations, which can sometimes turn nasty. Considering the levels of poverty, lack of proper hygiene, medical services and social stigmas - even organizations not preforming exactly as expected do a certain amount of good.

[nidieunimaitre]

Just when I thought that the story of the 72 virgins was the most rediculoso idea that religious fundamentalists could dream up.

Now this.

[Morch]

Alright, another post after reading some comments.

Donations to most NGOs and charities of a certain size, do not translate directly to funds allocated for the needy (or whatever object the organization deals with). There's this step when someone is hired to work part time, then full time, and then another, and another. Doesn't mean people getting paid are not fulfilling a worthy role, just that donations pay for it as well. When it comes to third world countries, being employed by a well established organization supported by (usually) foreign donations, is not too shabby a prospect. And then there's a million ways funds get blown on stuff that isn't graft per se, but.... equipment, offices, travel expenses, hosting donors, promoting the organization and so on.

As for being picky on donors - NGO's, charities and otherwise supposedly morally conscious organizations often take from questionable sources. Being righteous is all very nice, but maybe a luxury as far as the objects of the donations and the need to maintain the organization are concerned. Also, there's always the handy justification that the money goes to good purposes, regardless of its source.

Knowing exactly where the money goes and who else donates to the cause might discourage many "normal" donors.

[ggt]

These "so-called" miracles are not what qualifies Mother Teresa as a Saint...a selfless life of loving devotion to the people does...

[johna]

Christopher Hitchens in his book The Missionary Position, pointed out that the money donated to Mother Teresa could have been used to build a fully staffed hospital. Many of those who died in her hospices had treatable diseases.

[spidermike007]

Most of the naysayers are loser expat sex tourist types whose only positive contributions to the society in which they live, is to marry some NEP dirtbag or bung same 1000B for a roll in some sperm soaked mattress, get a job shouting English at a load of disinterested brats and then think they are the Mayor of Nakhorn Nowhere....

How disgusting. You must have a mind like a sewer to create that lot.

Now of great interest is that spidermike007 'liked' your filthy post, yet only a few posts earlier he himself contributed this to us:

I met her many years ago, on a trip to Calcutta. I asked to see her, for spiritual guidance, and she took the time to see me. She gave me a very wise answer to my dilemma at that time. She exhibited nothing but humility, kindness and sincerity.

Well spidermike007, you were right on one count if you 'like' youaredoomed's post you are definitely in need of some spiritual guidance. Her answer was clearly not wise enough because I guess you, who must claim to be a religious man (do you claim yourself virtuous?) actually 'like' one of the most disgustingly worded posts I have seen on TV. What a pity you cannot match her 'humility, kindness and sincerity'...or maybe you do!

Youaredoomed, thank you for the lesson in the type of company to avoid. Just because people disagree with the idea of beatifying this woman you come out with a disgraceful slur against them. Nice! Was it done in the pub? And to think the supporters of making this woman a Saint are people like you and spidermike007. You ironic!! Hells Angel indeed.

Frankly, your post was incomprehensible. Youaredoomed was describing the naysayers, in other words, the people who were ripping into Mother Theresa, as dirtbags. I did like that post. I agree. So, what were we doing wrong? Please provide us some clarity. I agree with calling her a saint. I think she deserves that recognition for her outstanding work. Got it now?

[spidermike007]

Just when I thought that the story of the 72 virgins was the most rediculoso idea that religious fundamentalists could dream up.

Now this.

How does a man of intelligence come up with a comparison between being promised 72 virgins if you take the lives of many, in a horrendous, senseless act of murder and mayhem, with a woman who has devoted her life lifting up thousands, from the misery of extreme poverty, and as a result being recognized as a saint? Where does the reason lie, in that comparison? Please enlighten me.

[prestburypark]

The day I take any notice of a worldwide paedophile and child torturing network who made their trillions from selling gullible pilgrims "relics" and "absolution" from their sins, will be the day the heavens open and the old fraud himself shows his face. people will then at least have the chance to throw rocks at the sob.

Miracles, sainthood?? really, what about sorcery and alchemy, about on the same par.

Perpetuating the myth (By canonising the old bat)that the church and religion have been a force for good in the world when especially today we can see the rerun of horrors and atrocities committed in religions name is sickening and an insult to the intelligence . Spare a real thought for the millions of victims of the churches' true calling , grabbing power and wealth and murdering any opposition. For the sake of their souls, of course.

[JusMe]

I wonder if perhaps the next candidate for sainthood might be Mother Teresa's highly respected, admired, and affectionate friend Idi Amin.

[nidieunimaitre]

Just when I thought that the story of the 72 virgins was the most rediculoso idea that religious fundamentalists could dream up.

Now this.

How does a man of intelligence come up with a comparison between being promised 72 virgins if you take the lives of many, in a horrendous, senseless act of murder and mayhem, with a woman who has devoted her life lifting up thousands, from the misery of extreme poverty, and as a result being recognized as a saint? Where does the reason lie, in that comparison? Please enlighten me.

You are mixing 2 very different things.

1/ Was Theresa helping the poor?

You think yes, but many posters think she only "helped" them to die, in stead of providing medical help.

We clearly have a different opinion on this.

With much goodwill from my side, I might respect that opinion.

2/ Is Theresa now up there in heaven with her god?

There is no god, and if there was a god, it would be blasphemy to pretend to know what a particular god wants and does.

The comparison between the 72 virgins and that woman's sainthood was based on the intellectual madness of both statements.

Are you a new born christian by any chance?

Edited December 19, 2015 by nidieunimaitre

[copa8]

And for the detractors, I have two questions.

1. Who else can you name, that has made the kind of impact that this women made, on so many lives of desperation, in our lifetime?

2. What great acts have you devoted yourself to, that allows you to question the lifetime of achievement, of this great woman?

Not responding to #2, as I'm not questioning her achievement(s).

But for #1...

Deng Xiao Ping. His policies directly/indirectly "led the greatest poverty alleviation program in the history of the world. During that time, an estimated 500 million Chinese were lifted out of extreme poverty."

http://www.trust.org/item/20140408110950-ndf6e/

[Andaman Al]

Most of the naysayers are loser expat sex tourist types whose only positive contributions to the society in which they live, is to marry some NEP dirtbag or bung same 1000B for a roll in some sperm soaked mattress, get a job shouting English at a load of disinterested brats and then think they are the Mayor of Nakhorn Nowhere....

How disgusting. You must have a mind like a sewer to create that lot.

Now of great interest is that spidermike007 'liked' your filthy post, yet only a few posts earlier he himself contributed this to us:

I met her many years ago, on a trip to Calcutta. I asked to see her, for spiritual guidance, and she took the time to see me. She gave me a very wise answer to my dilemma at that time. She exhibited nothing but humility, kindness and sincerity.

Well spidermike007, you were right on one count if you 'like' youaredoomed's post you are definitely in need of some spiritual guidance. Her answer was clearly not wise enough because I guess you, who must claim to be a religious man (do you claim yourself virtuous?) actually 'like' one of the most disgustingly worded posts I have seen on TV. What a pity you cannot match her 'humility, kindness and sincerity'...or maybe you do!

Youaredoomed, thank you for the lesson in the type of company to avoid. Just because people disagree with the idea of beatifying this woman you come out with a disgraceful slur against them. Nice! Was it done in the pub? And to think the supporters of making this woman a Saint are people like you and spidermike007. You ironic!! Hells Angel indeed.

Frankly, your post was incomprehensible. Youaredoomed was describing the naysayers, in other words, the people who were ripping into Mother Theresa, as dirtbags. I did like that post. I agree. So, what were we doing wrong? Please provide us some clarity. I agree with calling her a saint. I think she deserves that recognition for her outstanding work. Got it now?

Which bit of my post was incomprehensible exactly? You seem to have comprehended it clearly. Whatever youaredoomed was describing it was deemed fit to be deleted by them that decide such things I think that is clarity enough! If youaredoomed would have used similar words to you his post may not have been deleted. As it stood it was disgusting....and you know it! he didn't just call people that disagreed with him dirtbags did he? Get it now?

Edited December 19, 2015 by Andaman Al

[pitrevie]

And for the detractors, I have two questions.

1. Who else can you name, that has made the kind of impact that this women made, on so many lives of desperation, in our lifetime?

2. What great acts have you devoted yourself to, that allows you to question the lifetime of achievement, of this great woman?

Not responding to #2, as I'm not questioning her achievement(s).

But for #1...

Deng Xiao Ping. His policies directly/indirectly "led the greatest poverty alleviation program in the history of the world. During that time, an estimated 500 million Chinese were lifted out of extreme poverty."

http://www.trust.org/item/20140408110950-ndf6e/

Jonas Edward Salk who developed the polio vaccine.

[jacky54]

They might as well go back to selling indulgences and bits of the true cross if this old hypocrite becomes a Saint

[FritsSikkink]

I met her many years ago, on a trip to Calcutta. I asked to see her, for spiritual guidance, and she took the time to see me. She gave me a very wise answer to my dilemma at that time. She exhibited nothing but humility, kindness and sincerity. Some say she was a grandstander. If that was what was required to promote her orphanage, and her organization, in order to attract donations, what the hell? Who cares? I considered her a great woman, and I think she is more worthy of sainthood than most of the others that were considered. She did a lot of great work. She did make a big difference. How many true saints are out there these days?

And for the detractors, I have two questions.

1. Who else can you name, that has made the kind of impact that this women made, on so many lives of desperation, in our lifetime?

2. What great acts have you devoted yourself to, that allows you to question the lifetime of achievement, of this great woman?

there are no saints

[sirineou]

But she disrupted the physical laws that govern the Universe and cured that man in Brazil. Not sure why she will only do it for him and not others but who am I to judge. Not sure about her first miracle , they did not mentioned , did it have anything to do with Germany winning the world cup?

[ttthailand]

I just wonder how many of the people making comments have spent any time in India. Outside of the 4 and 5 star hotels is a world unlike anything most people have ever seen. Life for many is very difficult and for many poor people just finding a decent place to lay down and a meal is a miracle in itself. I could not imagine having to spend any amount of time in an environment like that and having to deal directly with people so poor who are sick and dying. Anyone who can do this type of work is truly a caring person. Maybe not a perfect person in every way but surely someone who deserves our respect.

Just the number of poor people is overwhelming and to take care of the poorest of the poor who are sick .... Just close your eyes and think of yourself cleaning up body fluid of hundreds of dying people, trying to feed those who can not feed themselves, moving to dead out to make room for another who will die soon, on and on and on day after day in rooms filled with people.

Saint or no saint it is not for me to judge but anyone subjecting themselves to this has my respect.

[spidermike007]

Just when I thought that the story of the 72 virgins was the most rediculoso idea that religious fundamentalists could dream up.

Now this.

How does a man of intelligence come up with a comparison between being promised 72 virgins if you take the lives of many, in a horrendous, senseless act of murder and mayhem, with a woman who has devoted her life lifting up thousands, from the misery of extreme poverty, and as a result being recognized as a saint? Where does the reason lie, in that comparison? Please enlighten me.

You are mixing 2 very different things.

1/ Was Theresa helping the poor?

You think yes, but many posters think she only "helped" them to die, in stead of providing medical help.

We clearly have a different opinion on this.

With much goodwill from my side, I might respect that opinion.

2/ Is Theresa now up there in heaven with her god?

There is no god, and if there was a god, it would be blasphemy to pretend to know what a particular god wants and does.

The comparison between the 72 virgins and that woman's sainthood was based on the intellectual madness of both statements.

Are you a new born christian by any chance?

No, I am not a born again Christian. But I do believe in a creator of some sort. More of a universalist concept of a guiding intelligence behind creation. There is no need to debate this. I respect your views, and you can respect mine. I am not implying that I know the wishes of God. And if I were to imply it, that would not be blasphemy. As far as I am concerned that whole concept was invented by a desperate church, as an excuse to punish people, and kill those that were not following in a correct manner, or attempting to leave the church, as some of the most ignorant elements within Islam are still doing today. It is utter foolishness, and in my opinion, the only real form of blasphemy is to kill in the name of spirit.

I have no problem with labeling this woman a saint. I do believe in the concept of sainthood, though I believe many who are canonized are not necessarily deserving. It can be argued until we are blue in the face, that many of those she treated had little chance of survival, if treated. I have spent time in Calcutta, and a lot of time in India, having lived and worked there for some time, in addition to traveling all over the country on several occasions. I know how desperate some of the people are, and how grinding some of the poverty there is. It can be argued she was providing more of a hospice type environment.

[Youaredoomed]

Most of the naysayers are loser expat sex tourist types whose only positive contributions to the society in which they live, is to marry some NEP dirtbag or bung same 1000B for a roll in some sperm soaked mattress, get a job shouting English at a load of disinterested brats and then think they are the Mayor of Nakhorn Nowhere....

How disgusting. You must have a mind like a sewer to create that lot.

Now of great interest is that spidermike007 'liked' your filthy post, yet only a few posts earlier he himself contributed this to us:

I met her many years ago, on a trip to Calcutta. I asked to see her, for spiritual guidance, and she took the time to see me. She gave me a very wise answer to my dilemma at that time. She exhibited nothing but humility, kindness and sincerity.

Well spidermike007, you were right on one count if you 'like' youaredoomed's post you are definitely in need of some spiritual guidance. Her answer was clearly not wise enough because I guess you, who must claim to be a religious man (do you claim yourself virtuous?) actually 'like' one of the most disgustingly worded posts I have seen on TV. What a pity you cannot match her 'humility, kindness and sincerity'...or maybe you do!

Youaredoomed, thank you for the lesson in the type of company to avoid. Just because people disagree with the idea of beatifying this woman you come out with a disgraceful slur against them. Nice! Was it done in the pub? And to think the supporters of making this woman a Saint are people like you and spidermike007. You ironic!! Hells Angel indeed.

What a well thought out reply....I think I walloped a nerve there......how was that mattress?

[Andaman Al]

Just when I thought that the story of the 72 virgins was the most rediculoso idea that religious fundamentalists could dream up.

Now this.

How does a man of intelligence come up with a comparison between being promised 72 virgins if you take the lives of many, in a horrendous, senseless act of murder and mayhem, with a woman who has devoted her life lifting up thousands, from the misery of extreme poverty, and as a result being recognized as a saint? Where does the reason lie, in that comparison? Please enlighten me.

She never lifted up anyone from the misery of extreme poverty! In fact before anyone could get a free bed or a cup of soup they had to renounce all worldly goods and take a vow of poverty. She never lifted anyone from poverty, she did just made them accept it.

In your post above you make two interesting comments

No, I am not a born again Christian. But I do believe in a creator of some sort. More of a universalist concept of a guiding intelligence behind creation.

I have no problem with labeling this woman a saint. I do believe in the concept of sainthood, though I believe many who are canonized are not necessarily deserving

The two statements belong with different people of vastly differing levels of intelligence. Think about it seriously! You believe in a universalist concept of a guiding intelligence behind creation - I assume not just on earth but indeed universally! And I concur that many intelligent people consider intelligent design a possibility. But then you state you believe in the concept of Sainthood, - which is lunacy.

Sainthood was bestowed on people to reinforce in the ignorant that the Pope was indeed the voice of God on Earth. How handy to control the masses to tell the ignorant that you speak for God himself and nobody else could! (Even the Mormons thought that a good Idea when they set up that quackery as well). We are told Saints hold a special position with God, sitting on a cloud next to him playing a harp I guess. So almighty God sits there, waiting for a bunch of crooked corrupt Cardinals to vote in the next Pope, and then resigns his almighty power by saying Mmm the Cardinals have voted this man Pope I guess I have to let him be my voice on Earth! THEN when said Pope decides to Beatify someone, God has to think, "Mmmm the Pope has decided that I have to now give a special place to this soul, ah well I suppose I better have to then".

I Imagine when Vladimar of Kiev was cannonized by some deluded Pope it upset God quite a bit as he had to pull him out of the pits of hell (due to his mass slaughtering of thousands of women and children and his 900+ concubines) and give him a special place as a Saint. Now what level of intelligence buys in to this?? You cannot pick who is a good Saint or a bad Saint, they were all chosen by 'God's representative on Earth', so Vladimir Of Kiev is just as hallowed as Mother Theresa.

Belief in Intelligent design is light years away from believing in mass fraud by the Catholic Church. I guess having Mother Theresa as a Saint will be quite a money spinner for the Vatican.

Edited December 20, 2015 by Andaman Al