wet hands and a floured board.

bowl of water beside you to keep dipping your hands in.

Just mix thoroughly.

I don't bother kneading ........ old wife's tale.

I don't bother knocking back ...... old wife's tale.

room temperature, whatever it is.

temperature of oven?

wet hands and a floured board.

bowl of water beside you to keep dipping your hands in.

Just mix thoroughly.

I don't bother kneading ........ old wife's tale.

I don't bother knocking back ...... old wife's tale.

room temperature, whatever it is.

temperature of oven?

225 for 20 minutes, 175 for the rest.

Funny haha I just did exactly that before but by accident. Nice result. I guess wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea. Wasn't light and soft. More chewy and crispy but delicious. Texture inside a bit like a crumpet

What difference would it make to a loaf sifting the flour?

What difference would it make to a loaf sifting the flour?

It airs the flour and removes any lumps (unlikely). Airing is quite helpful if the flour has been sitting around in a sealed bag for ages but a similar effect can be achieved by just running the mixer for a minute before adding any wet ingredients. I always do this.

Hello everyone, I'm so happy found this thread here on TV.

I'm baking my own bread since 1,5 years.

My equipment is quite simple. Zanussi electric oven with fan from PowerBuy, a Bosch mixer with rotating bowl and a digital scale.

I'm only using natural ingredients, mostly just bread flour, sugar, salt, butter and yeast.

So far everything you can find at your local supermarket.

The only thing a bit difficult is wholewheat and rye, but Tops Supermarket has it.

I really can recommend you Schmidt's Bakery supply in BKK.

They have everything you need including pre-mixed bread powder for speciality bread as well as (I call it "fake") sourdough for rye and wheat.

If I need something for cake or sweets I go to KCC Baker Mart. I also bought my moulds there.

Mostly I'm baking some kind of toast that I can keep a few days in the fridge in a ziplock bag and just put them in the toaster at the morning.

My favourite and almost single resource for recipes is this website:

www.ploetzblog.de

Unfortunately in German but with Google translate it should be okay.

There are also links to English websites.

My favourite bread is Toast bread from Jeffrey Hamelmann.

It's quite simple and easy but very tasty.

And don't forget, good bread needs time to develop good flavour.

Welcome to share your experiences and recipes here!

Never tried to make bread in my life as in no dough but I see sugar as a ingredient then not for me.

Never tried to make bread in my life as in no dough but I see sugar as a ingredient then not for me.

I agree, little need for sugar in most breads.

"the whiter the bread, sooner your dead"

Being a retired baker and diabetic.

Not all breads are bad, plenty of decent alternative flours available these days.

Way too expensive.

Bread flour from YOK = 34bht/Kg.

Cake flour from YOK = 24bht/Kg.

Rye and Wholewheat flour from YOK = 38bht/Kg.

Why pay more?

Is the bread flour from Yok bleached or unbleached? Not worth it at any price of it's bleached.

Never tried to make bread in my life as in no dough but I see sugar as a ingredient then not for me.

The yeast eats the sugar ....... not you.

Without any sugar, the yeast can't live and the bread is flat.

@SBA

Almost all commercial flour is bleached, including the brown flour .... they add dye to make it brown.

Never tried to make bread in my life as in no dough but I see sugar as a ingredient then not for me.

The yeast eats the sugar ....... not you.

Without any sugar, the yeast can't live and the bread is flat.

@SBA

Almost all commercial flour is bleached, including the brown flour .... they add dye to make it brown.

Most, if not all commercial flour milled in Thailand is bleached. But the flour I get here from Australia and the countries of the EU is definitely not bleached since it's illegal to do so... By brown flour do you mean a specific type of white flour that is dyed to make it brown? Or do you mean any flour that is brown? Except for a few special varieties, whole wheat flour is necessarily brown. So why would it be dyed? The reason some white flour is dyed brown is to make it look like whole wheat flour.

Except for a few special varieties, whole wheat flour is necessarily brown. So why would it be dyed? The reason some white flour is dyed brown is to make it look like whole wheat flour.

Don't think many places use 100% wholewheat flour.

About 20% is the maximum I can put in wholemeal bread.

(Maybe If you use another 20 chemicals you could use more)

Except for a few special varieties, whole wheat flour is necessarily brown. So why would it be dyed? The reason some white flour is dyed brown is to make it look like whole wheat flour.

Don't think many places use 100% wholewheat flour.

About 20% is the maximum I can put in wholemeal bread.

(Maybe If you use another 20 chemicals you could use more)

I don't see what relevance this comment has to bleached and unbleached flour. Anyway, unbleached flour can be bought both at Yok's and at Bakersmart. At Bakersmart they repack it in plastic bags so it has no brand name. At Yok's it's all their imported European flour.

And if you're willing to do a little extra work, you can definitely make a 100% whole wheat bread that's not bitter. Look up Peter Reinhart's recipes for whole wheat bread on the internet.

Never tried to make bread in my life as in no dough but I see sugar as a ingredient then not for me.

I put one teaspoon of brown sugar in my dough as it helps the yeast to get going. By the time the fermentation is done I doubt that there is anything of it left.

I also add some lime juice (ascorbic acid/vitamin C) which acts as a flour improver.

But bread will rise perfectly well without any sugar or vitamin C; it just takes a bit longer. Even for the 100% wholemeal flour that I use and which happily doubles in size if left for a few hours.

Don't think many places use 100% wholewheat flour.

I do. It's fine. But I do use good quality organic strong bread flour from the UK (direct from Prince Charles actually ). The organic part is not relevant to its ability to rise, of course.

Sometimes I mix it 50/50 with strong white bread flour from the same source, and that makes it a little more airy. Depends how I feel on the day.

Way too expensive.

Bread flour from YOK = 34bht/Kg.

Cake flour from YOK = 24bht/Kg.

Rye and Wholewheat flour from YOK = 38bht/Kg.

Why pay more?

Is the bread flour from Yok bleached or unbleached? Not worth it at any price of it's bleached.

I usually buy unbleached bread flour at my local Big C. It's from UFM, United Flour Mills, as far as I can remember. Swan Brand at Tops is also unbleached, but I'm not sure.

I think you mean TFM unbleached flour.

Which is what I buy at 34bht a kilo from YOK.

I was wondering what is the purpose of punching down and then waiting for the second rise? Always seems to be a higher rise after the first kneading

I was wondering what is the purpose of punching down and then waiting for the second rise? Always seems to be a higher rise after the first kneading

You get a fine and evenly distributed pore

I was wondering what is the purpose of punching down and then waiting for the second rise? Always seems to be a higher rise after the first kneading

You get a fine and evenly distributed pore

Old wifes tale ...... no need.

I was wondering what is the purpose of punching down and then waiting for the second rise? Always seems to be a higher rise after the first kneading

You get a fine and evenly distributed pore

Old wifes tale ...... no need.

I didn't knead much and only gave one rise. It was crap and didn't rise much Joe. Lost total faith in you :-(

works for me,

today's lunch, Rye bread (25% rye + 75% white), and vintage Cheddar.

..... gone now!

Anyone living in Khon kaen, just found a bakery supply shop basically next door to Fairy Plaza on the Klang Mueang road. Looking at the plaza from the front, it's on the lh side next to a CD shop. Had most accessories and all the flours discussed. Cheap too

works for me,

today's lunch, Rye bread (25% rye + 75% white), and vintage Cheddar.

bread.jpg

..... gone now!

that looks exactly the same as my non kneading effort. I like it a bit more lighter and spongier than that. Bigger air holes. Chewy like Sour dough. The addition of lime juice appeared to do jack

I would think lime juice would kill your yeast.

I was wondering what is the purpose of punching down and then waiting for the second rise? Always seems to be a higher rise after the first kneading

You get a fine and evenly distributed pore

Old wifes tale ...... no need.

That's kind of philosophical question [emoji6]

Same with kneading the dough.

But it's neither wrong nor right.

I would think lime juice would kill your yeast.

You should not put the lime juice straight on to the yeast, and the same applies to the salt.

I mix about 5% lime juice to about 95% water, which is barely enough to taste. And I mix the salt with the dry flour before adding the yeast and wet ingredients.

Many commercial bread mixes include ascorbic acid (vitamin C - lime juice) as a flour improver.

that looks exactly the same as my non kneading effort. I like it a bit more lighter and spongier than that. Bigger air holes. Chewy like Sour dough. The addition of lime juice appeared to do jack

I think you need to leave it longer. Maybe much longer.

It should be at least double the original size when you put it into the hot oven (or when you turn the heat up from the proving temperature if you do it the way I do). For me the advantage of letting the dough rise for the second time in the baking tin in the oven is that it wont later collapse as it's moved to the oven.

The lime juice acts as a flour improver, not as a proper raising agent. Yeast and time is all you really need.

One other possibility: are you sure that your yeast isn't old and past it? And that you aren't using too much salt?

Maybe some info of the role of Gluten might be in order.

Gluten—the strong, sticky, stretchy protein that forms when wheat flour and water mix—is remarkable stuff. It gives structure to baked goods and helps wheat flour morph into many different foods: al dente pasta, fluffy waffles, crisp pastries, chewy artisan bread. But not every baked good requires the same amount of gluten.

Yeast-raised doughs rely heavily on gluten for structure, so lots of it is welcome. However, encouraging gluten to form is the last thing you want to do when making chemically leavened baked goods such as cakes, cookies, and scones, as well as flaky or tender pastries.

Excess gluten makes biscuits leaden, pancakes rubbery, and piecrusts tough.

from: Taking Control of Gluten

WHAT ROLE DOES GLUTEN PLAY IN BREAD MAKING?

bake info .co.oz ...and the general info in the Gluten category

Gluten is a protein. Bread flour does not contain large amounts of protein (approx. between 10.5 – 13%) but it is very important for the bread making process. When flour is mixed with water, the gluten swells to form a continuous network of fine strands. This network forms the structure of bread dough and makes it elastic and extensible.

In the diagram below the bread making steps are listed and the role which gluten plays in these steps are highlighted.

Kneading/High Speed mixing in bakeries

• The addition of water to flour causes hydration of the Gliadin and Glutenin proteins and leads to the formation of gluten.

• This stage “works” the dough, stretching the gluten complexes.

• Stress induced by mixing breaks bonds between protein chains, allowing the chains to move and become realigned. The new bonds that are formed allow relaxation of the dough.

• Gluten strengthening (or oxidising) agents, such as, ascorbic acid stimulate the formation of these new bonds, strengthening the dough structure.

Proofing (Rising)

• At this stage starch breakdown and fermentation occur.
• As bread dough ferments and proves, the yeast produces carbon dioxide gas that causes the gluten network to expand.
• This leaves an open cellular structure with the gasses trapped in pockets.

The quality of gluten in dough is very important:

• If gluten is too weak it can’t stretch in thin films around the air bubbles produced during fermentation. The gas bubbles would then swell and burst, causing the loaf to lack volume.
• If gluten is too strong then it won’t stretch so the gas bubbles can’t expand causing a very dense loaf.

A model which can be used to explain the mixing and proofing stages is the action of bubble gum. Firstly the gum is hydrated in the mouth by saliva then mixed and softened by chewing until it forms an elastic mass. This is then able to expand and support an air bubble.

Baking

• As bread bakes, the gluten protein coagulates.
• This sets the gluten so that it is no longer elastic and determines the bread size and shape. This change does not reverse when bread is cooled.
• The end result after removal from the oven and cooling, should be a firm but open and light textured loaf of bread.

FWIW there's a really interesting short series just started on the BBC called "Victorian Bakers". Professional bakers recreate the techniques of commercial baking in the early to late Victorian era with mixed success.