Pheu Thai attacks Prayut govt

[khunken]

No, it was not about ridding corruption. It was about stopping Pheu-Thai murdering protesters with their UDD terrorists and the police helping them in and out. Not a single arrest even when they were caught full frontal on CCTV.

They point blank refused to stop and the situation was in a downwards spiral as the goblin became more and more desperate to cling on to power. His only hope for amnesty.

It's quite amusing that you post so freely against the Junta without even knowing why they are there.

You keep thinking that's the reason why the coup happened if it makes you feel better John. As usual your comment borders on delusion.

I could enlighten you on the real reasons behind the coup but as I said before, that it cannot be discussed.

The real reason WAS to stop the violence and the CAPO/BIB supporting those behind it.

The conspiracy reason is what those who refuse to accept the real reason have to misuse as an 'argument'.

Some of what PTP say is true and some is normal biased opinion. Corruption was not a reason for the coup but admittedly it was supposed to be seriously addressed when the junta took charge of running the country. The real failure for me is that they haven't properly addressed the number one corrupt organisation that allows and too often participates in unlawful activities - the RTP.

"The real reason WAS to stop the violence and the CAPO/BIB supporting those behind it."

Thanks, I needed that

Always glad to help the conspiracy theorists, biased & petty posters

[baboon]

Interesting that after three pages of comments I seem to have missed any comment on the arguments given by the Pheu Thai party. Comment for or against that is.

Perhaps they are taking a leaf out of your book.

[scorecard]

Both as bad as each other perhaps? Would that be a more balanced view?

As one was elected, and the other took power by force, I would say NO.

Elected? Threatening people in the villages? Systematically tearing down Democratic Party posters? Buying and selling votes? Just those three alone wou;ld declare such an election null and void. So yes, as bad as each other.

The international community and election observers disagree with you but I'm sure you know best!

"Elected? Threatening people in the villages? Systematically tearing down Democratic Party posters? Buying and selling votes? Just those three alone wou;ld declare such an election null and void. So yes, as bad as each other."

[bangrak]

The pot is calling the kettle black......and the pot is correct.

Who had any doubt that's the pot you're cooking with, 'MZurf'?

[NCFC]

didnt i hear in the last week that the required graft to get a government contract did go up this year from 30% to 50% of the contract value ?

Yes you did. Did you believe it on the evidence offered?

since i did also get it from a relative (Thai side) who owns a medium sized construction company and not just from the Media i do believe there is something to that ;-) .
But i was already a bit shocked to hear that for the last few years it was already 30% of the contract value ... if it would have been 30% of the expected net earnings of the contract that would have been a number i could accept for a 3. world country but 30% or now 50% of the contract value ? Thats crazy

I have also heard it said by a number of Thai associates that it went from around the 20% mark years ago, up to 30-40% under Thaksin, and now is in the 40-50% range.

It's good to see that foreign tv members are once again so well informed about the ins and outs of this government, which I assume is through their Hi-So Chinese wifes, but I'm surprised that the relevant Thai anti-graft agencies are unable to get the same information.

What makes you think anti-corruption agencies are not part of the problem?

[bangrak]

Nothing wrong with those criticism and I hope that PT take note of what they said and when they form the next government which is highly likely.

Khun Eric? Do you mean you do hope the, eventual, next PT government could exist without graft, corruption, nepotism, etc.? Is it really Christmas time then?

[bangrak]

First honest statement I have heard coming from Phua Thai. The times they are a changin...

Considering the posters giving you a 'like' for 'First honest statement I have heard coming from Phua Thai', the times could be changing indeed...

[Benmart]

“And the little screaming fact that sounds through all history: repression works only to strengthen and knit the repressed.”

John Steinbeck

Edited December 23, 2015 by Benmart

[bangrak]

Despite what people choose to say about PTP, it is hard to argue with their criticisms of the junta (as reported in this article).

It's also unfortunate that the Dems deafen us with their silence.

What did you expect from the Dems? To put one more on top of it, criticize all the corrupt powers of Thailand, the ones in place, the biggest ever, the PTP (PPP, TRT, etc.), ...and, the eldest ones, themselves, too, maybe? LOL

[bangrak]

didnt i hear in the last week that the required graft to get a government contract did go up this year from 30% to 50% of the contract value ?

Yes you did. Did you believe it on the evidence offered?

since i did also get it from a relative (Thai side) who owns a medium sized construction company and not just from the Media i do believe there is something to that ;-) .

But i was already a bit shocked to hear that for the last few years it was already 30% of the contract value ... if it would have been 30% of the expected net earnings of the contract that would have been a number i could accept for a 3. world country but 30% or now 50% of the contract value ? Thats crazy

I have also heard it said by a number of Thai associates that it went from around the 20% mark years ago, up to 30-40% under Thaksin, and now is in the 40-50% range.

Inflation, crisis, ...? LOL

[bangrak]

If one is to point the finger, clean hands add credibility.

Better unclean hands than an intellectual lobotomy.

What about the guys who'd have both...? ...And pretend, not knowing any better anymore of course, to be fighting 'for democracy'!

Heil Thaksin, heil Suthep, heil ..., who's the next one?

[bangrak]

If one is to point the finger, clean hands add credibility.

lol, so true, and the dirt on these (PTP) hands is so hard and ingrained that amputation is the only way the get rid of it

Hard to believe that PTP actually considered planned wrote and seriously released that statement - maybe it was an attempt at a little holiday humour

Pretty sure Dr. No has the humor market cornered with his new song, along with saying he won't be a politician...for anyone!

Carefull, carefull 'jaywalker', the guy generally called 'Dr.''s name starts with a 'T' and family name with a 'S' (can't be too carefull with convicts on the run able to sue people here...)!

[bangrak]

First honest statement I have heard coming from Phua Thai. The times they are a changin...

You are joking right? Or are you really that naive?

Simply PT having a go, and hoping they will one day be back on top of the shit heap and in control off the trough.

What did they do about fighting corruption? Oh yes, they had their pretty pictured with a nice anti-corruption banner and lied when challenged on anything.

What did they do about people trafficking, slave workers, land encroachment by their cronies, etc etc - nowt.

I'm not suggesting that this government has done much either.

But PTP = honest

Do I have to underline first honest statement or?

Yes, you should have had, now it's so clear, quite some of the posters (blindly believing in the equation: PTP = honest), going by the name of an odd few, who had given you a 'like' might hurry to 'unlike' your post (maybe to be replaced by others going for your honest post)... LOL

[bangrak]

They throw a laundry list of complaints / negatives at the current government, in reality it's pretty much a list of their own failings / serious items which need serious attention but got no attention at all, and nobody surprised given their purpose and their lack of morals, plus their severe lack of capability.

Yes but that was supposedly why the junta took power, to stop all that not to continue it with knobs on. At least the PTP stood to be voted out. That's what this is all about, not who's the most or least corrupt govt but about the rights of the people to make their choice.

Corrupt criminals are OK as long as they get the votes! Actually, sadly, I think the US and the EU could even agree on that, the show must go on, and business first... But, but, but, what about 'democracy' then? Oh, shut up you, you still didn't get it, did you?

[bangrak]

In French, there's a saying I don't know how to exactly translate to English, about seeing the straw(?) in the other's eye, but ignoring the beam(?) in one's own... Today, we even had someone mistaking the PTP for being the kettle... All very confusing indeed... In the end, it is said the bible can always bring support, and, though I'm not at all sure, there was something there about letting the one who has no fault cast the first stone, or something like it, which might be the answer to someone else's question about the silence of the Dems on the issue...

Anyway, having the PTP pointing a finger at anyone about... corruption, is a feat on its own! While being, IMO, quite right, it still sounds like a joke...

P.S.: When Thais would follow the bible's scriptures, I guess not one single stone would have been thrown at the Gens, by any politico of the land...

Edited December 23, 2015 by bangrak

[rubl]

Interesting that after three pages of comments I seem to have missed any comment on the arguments given by the Pheu Thai party. Comment for or against that is.

Perhaps they are taking a leaf out of your book.

More likely a leaf out of your book, as I already made a to the point comment, but your's is still being anxiously awaited.

[jayboy]

At least those criminals were legally elected, and there were checks and balances in place. Today we have a self imposed junta with article 44, attitude adjustment sessions, only one side allowed to demonstrate etc, etc, etc,etc,
But hey, anything as long as it's not Thaksin, right?

"But hey, anything as long as it's not Thaksin ?"

Agree 100%

Too late to edit.
I have to admit I was over the top.
What I wanted to say is: Better this government than Thaksin or one of his puppet governments.

Many governments imaginable that are worse than the present one, much worse.

No, this one is the worst.No doubt worse governments can be imagined though the point of this is hard to understand.But in the more prosaic sense of comparing governments that actually existed, the current one (illegal, incompetent, corrupt, unelected, repressive, ludicrous, arrogant and hateful) is the worst.Worse even that of the appalling Suchinda because while his was brutal, it was mercifully brief.

[rubl]

Too late to edit.

I have to admit I was over the top.

What I wanted to say is: Better this government than Thaksin or one of his puppet governments.

Many governments imaginable that are worse than the present one, much worse.

No, this one is the worst.No doubt worse governments can be imagined though the point of this is hard to understand.But in the more prosaic sense of comparing governments that actually existed, the current one (illegal, incompetent, corrupt, unelected, repressive, ludicrous, arrogant and hateful) is the worst.Worse even that of the appalling Suchinda because while his was brutal, it was mercifully brief.

The previous government had a cabinet of carefully hand-picked Thaksin cronies and tried to push through a blanket amnesty bill to cover their own two years in office. That's not something one would normally associate with democratically elected government for and by the people.

As such your description of the current government only has the normal meaningless descriptives those who have no sound reasons like to throw about. At least Pheu Thai tried to give reasoning with their accusations.

[jayboy]

Too late to edit.

I have to admit I was over the top.

What I wanted to say is: Better this government than Thaksin or one of his puppet governments.

Many governments imaginable that are worse than the present one, much worse.

No, this one is the worst.No doubt worse governments can be imagined though the point of this is hard to understand.But in the more prosaic sense of comparing governments that actually existed, the current one (illegal, incompetent, corrupt, unelected, repressive, ludicrous, arrogant and hateful) is the worst.Worse even that of the appalling Suchinda because while his was brutal, it was mercifully brief.

The previous government had a cabinet of carefully hand-picked Thaksin cronies and tried to push through a blanket amnesty bill to cover their own two years in office. That's not something one would normally associate with democratically elected government for and by the people.

As such your description of the current government only has the normal meaningless descriptives those who have no sound reasons like to throw about. At least Pheu Thai tried to give reasoning with their accusations.

What a joke.This genius criticises a legal elected government - properly endorsed by the Thai people - for its "hand picked cronies".Yes, this completely uncritical Junta lover is complaining of "hand picked cronies" in a previous elected government.One assumes any sense of the meaning of irony flies over his head.

[Baerboxer]

First honest statement I have heard coming from Phua Thai. The times they are a changin...

You are joking right? Or are you really that naive?

Simply PT having a go, and hoping they will one day be back on top of the shit heap and in control off the trough.

What did they do about fighting corruption? Oh yes, they had their pretty pictured with a nice anti-corruption banner and lied when challenged on anything.

What did they do about people trafficking, slave workers, land encroachment by their cronies, etc etc - nowt.

I'm not suggesting that this government has done much either.

But PTP = honest

Do I have to underline first honest statement or?

You can underline it, write it in red, and do what you like.

If you think PTP are honest, have turned over a new leaf, or won't lie when it suits, then good luck to you.

Now, how do you think they would have reacted if a group of students or any citizens had turned up at their offices and demanded to check the accounts of the rice scheme for corruption?

[Baerboxer]

Too late to edit.

I have to admit I was over the top.

What I wanted to say is: Better this government than Thaksin or one of his puppet governments.

Many governments imaginable that are worse than the present one, much worse.

No, this one is the worst.No doubt worse governments can be imagined though the point of this is hard to understand.But in the more prosaic sense of comparing governments that actually existed, the current one (illegal, incompetent, corrupt, unelected, repressive, ludicrous, arrogant and hateful) is the worst.Worse even that of the appalling Suchinda because while his was brutal, it was mercifully brief.

The previous government had a cabinet of carefully hand-picked Thaksin cronies and tried to push through a blanket amnesty bill to cover their own two years in office. That's not something one would normally associate with democratically elected government for and by the people.

As such your description of the current government only has the normal meaningless descriptives those who have no sound reasons like to throw about. At least Pheu Thai tried to give reasoning with their accusations.

What a joke.This genius criticises a legal elected government - properly endorsed by the Thai people - for its "hand picked cronies".Yes, this completely uncritical Junta lover is complaining of "hand picked cronies" in a previous elected government.One assumes any sense of the meaning of irony flies over his head.

And whether you like it or not, the current government was endorsed by the one authority that can endorse a government in Thailand.

Any political parties run by ethnic Chinese will use nepotism and cronyism as a means of securing power, covering up their unsavory activities and as a means of control.

My Chinese friends laugh at how we patronizing and arrogant Westerners try to apply our political constructs as a means of analysis.

Thaksin shuffled the "Yingluck" cabinet to suit himself and his mates; there was one occasion where she didn't know it was about to happen and told the press it wasn't going to happen. Must have missed that Skype call - or forgot!

The Shins moved their own people in - and one of those moves, made illegally, cost Yingluck her PM role. Thaksin, as a convicted criminal fugitive, wasn't elected but as the PTP owner and paymaster still governed. How very democratic that is.

Surprise surprise, the new Junta government cleared out a lot of the Shin cronies and brought their own in. And, when, if, there is an election, the next government will do the same.

And still some posters try and see this as left and right wing Western politics rather than feudal minded Chinese ethnic clans vying for control.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Baerboxer

[Baerboxer]

First honest statement I have heard coming from Phua Thai. The times they are a changin...

You are joking right? Or are you really that naive?

Simply PT having a go, and hoping they will one day be back on top of the shit heap and in control off the trough.

What did they do about fighting corruption? Oh yes, they had their pretty pictured with a nice anti-corruption banner and lied when challenged on anything.

What did they do about people trafficking, slave workers, land encroachment by their cronies, etc etc - nowt.

I'm not suggesting that this government has done much either.

But PTP = honest

He never suggested that they were honest. He is simply stating that they have made an honest statement which you can't disagree with. So because you can't disagree with their statement, you try to turn it around on PTP.

Even the biggest of liars will occasionally tell the truth.

Try and focus. Its been almost 2 years since PTP have been in government and you guys still go on with the but,but,but or what,what,what.

Having difficulty understanding that it was PTP who were attacking the government? Try and keep up.

PTP wouldn't know the truth if it bit them. Nor would they care if what they say is true of false. This is the party that said lying is ethical and whose finance minister admitting lying and still kept his job.

Of course they can attack the the current government on areas that they have failed to deliver on. Has any Thai government really tackled corruption, sorted illegal fishing and slave labor, trafficking out?

He suggested that these attacks were honest, a sincere attempt at being a credible opposition. I'm suggesting there is nothing honest about it. Simply attacking the government who replaced them. Some of the things they say are true, some maybe not. But they won't care about that. Their game is not following the truth.

[Wilsonandson]

Yawn, tell us something new pheu thai. Like will you ditch the Shinawatras and have the balls to move on without them. Boring, blah, blah, blah.

[jayboy]

Too late to edit.
I have to admit I was over the top.
What I wanted to say is: Better this government than Thaksin or one of his puppet governments.

Many governments imaginable that are worse than the present one, much worse.

No, this one is the worst.No doubt worse governments can be imagined though the point of this is hard to understand.But in the more prosaic sense of comparing governments that actually existed, the current one (illegal, incompetent, corrupt, unelected, repressive, ludicrous, arrogant and hateful) is the worst.Worse even that of the appalling Suchinda because while his was brutal, it was mercifully brief.

The previous government had a cabinet of carefully hand-picked Thaksin cronies and tried to push through a blanket amnesty bill to cover their own two years in office. That's not something one would normally associate with democratically elected government for and by the people.

As such your description of the current government only has the normal meaningless descriptives those who have no sound reasons like to throw about. At least Pheu Thai tried to give reasoning with their accusations.

What a joke.This genius criticises a legal elected government - properly endorsed by the Thai people - for its "hand picked cronies".Yes, this completely uncritical Junta lover is complaining of "hand picked cronies" in a previous elected government.One assumes any sense of the meaning of irony flies over his head.

And whether you like it or not, the current government was endorsed by the one authority that can endorse a government in Thailand.

Any political parties run by ethnic Chinese will use nepotism and cronyism as a means of securing power, covering up their unsavory activities and as a means of control.

My Chinese friends laugh at how we patronizing and arrogant Westerners try to apply our political constructs as a means of analysis.

Thaksin shuffled the "Yingluck" cabinet to suit himself and his mates; there was one occasion where she didn't know it was about to happen and told the press it wasn't going to happen. Must have missed that Skype call - or forgot!
The Shins moved their own people in - and one of those moves, made illegally, cost Yingluck her PM role. Thaksin, as a convicted criminal fugitive, wasn't elected but as the PTP owner and paymaster still governed. How very democratic that is.

Surprise surprise, the new Junta government cleared out a lot of the Shin cronies and brought their own in. And, when, if, there is an election, the next government will do the same.

And still some posters try and see this as left and right wing Western politics rather than feudal minded Chinese ethnic clans vying for control.

Well it's refreshing to have a lucid argument for a change but it's off beam.I would also remind you that Thailand until the Junta's grab for power was a constitutional democracy and the choice of government is one made by people.As in the UK or Japan there are constitutional procedures for formal endorsement by the Head Of State.

Your point on Thaksin's influence would be a great deal more compelling if his likely behind the scenes string pulling was unknown to the Thai people before the election of the government of which his sister became leader.

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

First honest statement I have heard coming from Phua Thai. The times they are a changin...

You are joking right? Or are you really that naive?

Simply PT having a go, and hoping they will one day be back on top of the shit heap and in control off the trough.

What did they do about fighting corruption? Oh yes, they had their pretty pictured with a nice anti-corruption banner and lied when challenged on anything.

What did they do about people trafficking, slave workers, land encroachment by their cronies, etc etc - nowt.

I'm not suggesting that this government has done much either.

But PTP = honest

Do I have to underline first honest statement or?

You can underline it, write it in red, and do what you like.

If you think PTP are honest, have turned over a new leaf, or won't lie when it suits, then good luck to you.

Now, how do you think they would have reacted if a group of students or any citizens had turned up at their offices and demanded to check the accounts of the rice scheme for corruption?

Probably in the same way as the rulers of the day, arrest them, harass them (and their mothers) and charge them with defamation.

[jayboy]

Re. Advance member's post:

Let's not forget, Hitler was also legally elected!

Meaningless comment unless elaborated on.He never had a majority and was appointed Chancellor after establishment thought this way he could be controlled.The magisterial authority on Hitler, Kershaw, is contemptuous of those who argue against democracy because Hitler had some electoral success.Doesn't accord with the facts.

This kind of ignorance - widespread on the Internet - would be dispelled by reading any of the main excellent histories by authorities like Kershaw.

[MZurf]

You keep thinking that's the reason why the coup happened if it makes you feel better John. As usual your comment borders on delusion.

I could enlighten you on the real reasons behind the coup but as I said before, that it cannot be discussed.

The real reason WAS to stop the violence and the CAPO/BIB supporting those behind it.

The conspiracy reason is what those who refuse to accept the real reason have to misuse as an 'argument'.

Some of what PTP say is true and some is normal biased opinion. Corruption was not a reason for the coup but admittedly it was supposed to be seriously addressed when the junta took charge of running the country. The real failure for me is that they haven't properly addressed the number one corrupt organisation that allows and too often participates in unlawful activities - the RTP.

"The real reason WAS to stop the violence and the CAPO/BIB supporting those behind it."

Thanks, I needed that

Always glad to help the conspiracy theorists, biased & petty posters

And I am always happy to help the endearingly naive:

http://asiancorrespondent.com/2014/06/suthep-prayuth-and-i-have-been-planning-a-coup-since-2010/

[MZurf]

The pot is calling the kettle black......and the pot is correct.

Who had any doubt that's the pot you're cooking with, 'MZurf'?

Probably those who have bothered paying attention.

[MZurf]

As one was elected, and the other took power by force, I would say NO.

Elected? Threatening people in the villages? Systematically tearing down Democratic Party posters? Buying and selling votes? Just those three alone wou;ld declare such an election null and void. So yes, as bad as each other.

The international community and election observers disagree with you but I'm sure you know best!

"Elected? Threatening people in the villages? Systematically tearing down Democratic Party posters? Buying and selling votes? Just those three alone wou;ld declare such an election null and void. So yes, as bad as each other."

"Threatening people in the villages? Systematically tearing down Democratic Party posters? Buying and selling votes? Just those three alone wou;ld declare such an election null and void."

Again, the international community disagree with you that this affected the outcome of the elections in any significant manner, but as I said I'm sure you rabid Thaksin haters know better...

[Eric Loh]

Nothing wrong with those criticism and I hope that PT take note of what they said and when they form the next government which is highly likely.

Khun Eric? Do you mean you do hope the, eventual, next PT government could exist without graft, corruption, nepotism, etc.? Is it really Christmas time then?

We can only wish. Don't you? Hard to imagine Thailand without graft though even in current times where the good guys rule.