Koh Tao: Suspects found guilty of murdering British backpackers

[tracker1]

Crime Scene Preservation just does not exist in Thailand! Every man and his dog trample around taking photos Shocking to say the least !!! I just hope it is not execution first then appeal

[wabothai]

my effort to post is being manipulated.

I retrect my post

[lucky11]

And so the bubble pops...

The people saying that no evidence was presented are in complete denial, the main evidence against them, DNA found inside the rape victim was presented by the prosecution and not contested in any meaningful way by the defense.

Would like to see the judges' rationale on how they arrived at the verdict.

The judge is supposed to put in writing the rationale behind the decision, I hope someone takes the time and effort to translate it into English, in toto and without creative interpretations or convenient omissions as it has been the norm for the press work on issues related to this case.

Hold on a second!

Are you saying these 2 men were not being tried for murder?

That they received the death sentence for rape?

No, it appears the evidence of sex supports the case of murder--at least in the eyes of the court.

If DNA from B2 were found inside Ms. Witheridge, it would seem they had sex; which, of course does not prove rape. However, DNA evidence could have been eliminated from the hoe handle and the DNA found may be that of the authorities who handled the hoe afterward, rather than the DNA of the actual murderer.

It is possible B2 had casual consensual sex with Ms. Witheridge and she was later murdered with Mr. Miller by parties whose DNA resides on the hoe.

Of course, all of this only proves one thing; we do not have enough evidence to make a decision.

"If DNA from B2 were found inside Ms. Witheridge, it would seem they had sex; which, of course does not prove rape"

I think, if I was you, that I would edit this while you have the chance, otherwise it will surely draw ridicule!!

Why don't you read what you wrote again and try to see the errors in your words.

[LivinLOS]

And so the bubble pops...

The people saying that no evidence was presented are in complete denial, the main evidence against them, DNA found inside the rape victim was presented by the prosecution and not contested in any meaningful way by the defense.

Would like to see the judges' rationale on how they arrived at the verdict.

The judge is supposed to put in writing the rationale behind the decision, I hope someone takes the time and effort to translate it into English, in toto and without creative interpretations or convenient omissions as it has been the norm for the press work on issues related to this case.

The defence requested samples of the DNA for independent testing but officers failed to retrieve the samples and one officer suggested they had been destroyed.

I can see that you are copying and pasting from a news article, this is precisely what I was referring to in regards to the appalling behaviour of the press in this case. The court granted the request of the defense to retest the DNA samples, the defense then declined to do so; that is a fact a fact that either was conveniently ignored to maintain a certain narrative or completely unknown by a journalist that is supposed to know what he or she is writing about.

People that are clinging to the notion of the innocence of those two men are holding on to demonstrably false beliefs, time to let go, do a bit of soul searching and try to learn from the process.

Source please..

My understanding is they were told they could retest, and then the police said they had none left to test (used up is I think the justification give).. Hence even tho the court agreed that right, the police found a way not to comply.

[stickylies]

Kin khaow yang?

[lucky11]

my effort to post is being manipulated.

I retrect my post

I think that you should retract this one also!!

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

Sad day for justice. we can be sure the death sentence will be carried out to leave no loose ends. I will never visit koh tao again.

[Gweiloman]

Statement on behalf of the family of Hannah Witheridge

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1450938246

[ParadiseLost]

No, it appears the evidence of sex supports the case of murder--at least in the eyes of the court.

If DNA from B2 were found inside Ms. Witheridge, it would seem they had sex; which, of course does not prove rape. However, DNA evidence could have been eliminated from the hoe handle and the DNA found may be that of the authorities who handled the hoe afterward, rather than the DNA of the actual murderer.

It is possible B2 had casual consensual sex with Ms. Witheridge and she was later murdered with Mr. Miller by parties whose DNA resides on the hoe.

Of course, all of this only proves one thing; we do not have enough evidence to make a decision.

There was also the possibility the hoe in evidence was not the original murder weapon pictured on the beach. These pics show one having a missing corner (original) while the second, introduced as evidence was intact...

This is the last post I make here, this verdict is filling me with intense anger as I believe a terrible injustice was done today and I am ashamed that I have called this place home for so long. That cannot continue for me.

[sandrabbit]

lucky11, on 24 Dec 2015 - 13:36, said:

freedom4life, on 24 Dec 2015 - 12:53, said:

Jonathan Fairfield, on 24 Dec 2015 - 11:10, said:

Correct verdict? Obviously they know nothing of Thailand and what really goes on...try not to have disrespect for the family..but you might as well go back to sleep. You most likely condoned innocent people to a death sentence...can you live with both your siblings death and the death of the Myanmar fellows?

What an outrageous post!!

So, you profess to know everything about what goes on in Thailand, do you? well David's family actually listened to a large amount of the evidence for and against the two and were privy to information you were not and made their own minds up based on this.

How can you condemn them for deciding that their verdict on the proceedings is incorrect, simply because it differs from "I am an expert on all things Thai" you!!

The defence knew that the DNA evidence was sound and Jonathon Head stated that the defence DIDN'T challenge this even though the court challenged them to. Now why would this be? I will leave that for you to work out.

You should retract your post as it is distasteful and a slur on the Miller family's integrity.

I agree with what your post is inferring Lucky but to say they were privy to information not available to us and made their own minds up based on this doesn't matter because the verdict is supposed to be based on what is presented in court. Also some posters on here are going way too far in some of the comments they are making about the victims families, they have responded to the verdict so just let them be.

[StealthEnergiser]

And so the bubble pops...

The people saying that no evidence was presented are in complete denial, the main evidence against them, DNA found inside the rape victim was presented by the prosecution and not contested in any meaningful way by the defense.

Would like to see the judges' rationale on how they arrived at the verdict.

The judge is supposed to put in writing the rationale behind the decision, I hope someone takes the time and effort to translate it into English, in toto and without creative interpretations or convenient omissions as it has been the norm for the press work on issues related to this case.

The defence requested samples of the DNA for independent testing but officers failed to retrieve the samples and one officer suggested they had been destroyed.

I can see that you are copying and pasting from a news article, this is precisely what I was referring to in regards to the appalling behaviour of the press in this case. The court granted the request of the defense to retest the DNA samples, the defense then declined to do so; that is a fact a fact that either was conveniently ignored to maintain a certain narrative or completely unknown by a journalist that is supposed to know what he or she is writing about.

People that are clinging to the notion of the innocence of those two men are holding on to demonstrably false beliefs, time to let go, do a bit of soul searching and try to learn from the process.

Edited December 24, 2015 by StealthEnergiser

[Jonathan Fairfield]

Statement on behalf of the family of Hannah Witheridge, issued at 6:05am GMT, Dec. 24. (13:05 Thai time, Dec. 24)

NORFOLK, UK — Statement on behalf of the family of Hannah Witheridge, who was tragically killed along with David Miller in Koh Tao, Thailand, in September 2014

"As the trial concludes and the verdict is delivered, our family, once again, find ourselves in the path of a whirlwind of emotions and difficulties. In these challenging times, we try to concentrate our efforts on remembering our beautiful Hannah for the fun, vibrant and incredible young woman that she was.

"Had her life not been tragically and unnecessarily cut short, she would now have completed her Master’s degree in Speech and Language therapy and would be about to embark on a fulfilling and worthwhile career. She would have gone on to make a significant difference to the lives of many.

Full story: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1450938246

-- Khaosod English 2015-12-24

[MaeJoMTB]

I thought it was against forum rules to adversely comment on a Thai courts decision.

So I won't.

[Gweiloman]

Statement on behalf of the family of Hannah Witheridge

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1450938246

Very interesting that the Witheridge's family statement seems to be completely at odds with that of the Millers.

[grumpyoldman]

Samui courts are ridiculous. Friend of a friend got wracked up by them, on holiday in a hotel, the hotel's safe deposit boxes got robbed by a foreigner wearing a baseball cap.

Friend of friend the next day goes walking through the lobby with a ball cap on, and the owner says "thats him!", because of course after you robbed the place you would continue on with your vacation and stroll through the lobby, uh-huh.......

This guy had plenty of dough, no need to rob, but the courts found him guilty, total travesty, the guy ended up having to shell out about 300,000$US, to clear it all up, he's never coming back to Thailand.

Samui courts, total joke.

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

Im as shocked with this verdict as i was with the O.J verdict...

[Briggsy]

Sickening.

A complete lack of moral courage has been shown by all in authority. All involved kept silent and played their part to protect a bunch of cowardly thugs led by the scion of a moneyed island family with political power and connections and sentence a couple of nobody migrant workers to death.

[EnglishJohn]

So saddened by this miscarriage of justice. I kind of expected this, but still had hoped in the end the guys would be exonerated.

"Woe to those...who acquit the guilty for a bribe,

and deprive the innocent of his right!" -Isaiah 5:23

Under this current regime AND ITS INFLUENTIAL SUPPORTERS, nobody in the tiny chickening justice system would dare to make those powers lose face and risk their sorry a***** lives into their own death by misadventure....

Ha ha ha - you win the first carrot for trying to twist this to blame the Junta.

I suppose you think things would have been different under Pheu-Thai right ?. LOL.

This is the Thai system : rotten right to the core. Blame your Thai police : red-shirts through and through and as corrupt as all their comrades. Then blame dirty politicians who fund them and judges who take pastry boxes. Here's a clue : the ones who did it are not Army.

Remember the guy murdered by the shoelace (Who just happened to have spoken out against Yingluck) ?. Chalerm announced the result of that inquiry personally about 2 days after it happened.

Grow up and join the real world.

[sendintheclowns]

Appeal time, this isnt done, world media is going to be all over this.

One more nail in the Juntas coffin.

That's as uninformed as you can get.

Let's agree to disagree.

What about all the injustices over the past time I've lived here - i.e. 22 years ?

I'd categorize it as one more nail in the coffin of the Thai justice system.

[maximillian]

Wish ALL workers from Myanmar would go on strike for at least a month.

Wish NO MORE tourists would come to Ko Tao.

Feel for the two boys and their families.

Let's all pray for a good outcome of this farce.

[Evilbaz]

TIT

Rule #1 -Money Rules.

All other Rules - see Rule #1

[lucky11]

The Miller's statement is unbelievable. Something very strange going on there. It can't just be grief.

What, because it doesn't fit in with your point of view!!

It's not grief, it's to do with the fact that they are, after listening to all the evidence "absolutely overwhelmingly" convinced that the right verdict has been reached.

Nothing strange in that at all, is there!

[Lupatria]

Something got lost in translation: it's 'Silent Night' not Silence Night'.

[mrrizzla]

So saddened by this miscarriage of justice. I kind of expected this, but still had hoped in the end the guys would be exonerated.

"Woe to those...who acquit the guilty for a bribe,

and deprive the innocent of his right!" -Isaiah 5:23

Under this current regime AND ITS INFLUENTIAL SUPPORTERS, nobody in the tiny chickening justice system would dare to make those powers lose face and risk their sorry a***** lives into their own death by misadventure....

Ha ha ha - you win the first carrot for trying to twist this to blame the Junta.

I suppose you think things would have been different under Pheu-Thai right ?. LOL.

This is the Thai system : rotten right to the core. Blame your Thai police : red-shirts through and through and as corrupt as all their comrades. Then blame dirty politicians who fund them and judges who take pastry boxes. Here's a clue : the ones who did it are not Army.

Remember the guy murdered by the shoelace (Who just happened to have spoken out against Yingluck) ?. Chalerm announced the result of that inquiry personally about 2 days after it happened.

Grow up and join the real world.

Oh look who it is.

Why didn't your hero the general go and crack some skulls in this farce then? He has article 44, he could of really made a difference in this case but just went a long and said the investigation was "perfect".

I suspect you will say "it's not his job" but you John and others of your ilk are saying he is doing so well cleaning up corruption. Here is a case of massive corruption that was on the world's stage. Would it have been any different under the PTP? Nope, has it been any different under the junta...ummm...NOPE!

Edited December 24, 2015 by mrrizzla

[smotherb]

Luck11 said,

" "If DNA from B2 were found inside Ms. Witheridge, it would seem they had sex; which, of course does not prove rape"

I think, if I was you, that I would edit this while you have the chance, otherwise it will surely draw ridicule!!

Why don't you read what you wrote again and try to see the errors in your words."

Lucky, you seem a bit confused. Are you saying a man's DNA evidence inside a woman means rape? If that were the case my poor ill-informed friend, almost all sex would be rape.

[mick01827]

And still no closure on this sad event for the families of the deceased.

But hey, whatever you do, don't criticise or ask questions ... people at the top may be angered!

I've just seen David's brother make a statement on the news saying the family were happy with the verdict and the thai justice wasn't a shambles as it was made out to be through this trial.

[jcsmith]

What a farce.

The farce was especially the performance by armchair detectives say true or false without any concrete evidence.

The height of absurdity was far exceeded by the petition with tens of thousands of people all equally ignorant of the details of the case.

The evidence we read everything and anything on the net

Proof that petitions can be treated with contempt

.

Shame for those who have asserted the Innocence 2 B on the core principle that they were not the heads of murderers.

The shame for all those who have sullied the Thai authorities simply because they detest this country they have chosen nevertheless.

Needless to mention their names, They will recognize.

Oh please. These two men were convicted on nothing at all but circumstantial evidence. DNA evidence which is used up and can't be submitted as evidence, and which was denied to the defense team on those terms. The only DNA actually submitted, did not match. Hundreds of CCTV cameras which apprently didn't work. Discrepencies everywhere and holes in the case. That not speculation. That is fact.

If these kids commited the crime, by all means they should be in prison for the rest of their lives. The problem is there is next to no evidence to support that they were involved. You have to take the police's word for it. The prosecution's didn't have a case. Yet here is a conviction. I'm not asserting their innocence. But I'm certainly not remotely convinced of their guilt. How could you be unless you are a blind supporter?

Edited December 24, 2015 by jcsmith

[smotherb]

Yes, the hoe may have been swopped, the DNA evidence may have been incorrect, the confessions may have been coerced--none of which affords us anymore knowledge of the case.

Edited December 24, 2015 by smotherb

[silent]

There was no DNA belonging to the B2 on the murder weapon a hoe how can they possibly be guilty.

What makes people think whether they did or not is of any importance to them being found guilty as long as some evidence can make it look like there's a chance they are. This is why Christians have no business meddling with their ten commandments in concepts they can't appreciate. After these two have been dead for a while it's not as important whether they were actually guilty or not, as it is that for the good of all somebody hang for savagely murdering two innocent tourists. These two will be reborn at some point into a better lifestyle if they were innocent and worse if they are guilty. So in reality the perception has to be that they're being done a favor and just a matter of keeping things in perspective for the holidays isn't it? Trust me, I wasn't always this pragmatic.

Edited December 24, 2015 by silent

[mrrizzla]

The statement for Hannah's family is quite different to that of the Millers.

"The past year has served as an unimaginably impossible time for our family. We have found the trial process extremely difficult and our trips out to Thailand, to attend court, made for particularly distressing experiences. We found listening to proceedings very challenging and we have had to endure a lot of painful and confusing information. We now need time, as a family, to digest the outcome of the trial and figure out the most appropriate way to tell our story.”

They have yet to say that justice has been done. Quite understandable given the timing. We shall soon see.