Koh Tao: Suspects found guilty of murdering British backpackers

[AleG]

DNA does not show rape

it only shows physical presence

rape is about consent

Right, andthrough out all this they forgot to mention anything about having consentual sex with the victim, to anyone at any time.

[StealthEnergiser]

How can you possibly take something such as what he tweeted out of context? He said the DNA evidence was sound and the verdict also.

So you think he still believes they are innocent?

DiscoDan admitted he was wrong and asked the mod's to remove his tweet you was asked to apologise also and admit it.

[AleG]

Isn't it strange: hardly so much as a peep at the thread from The Team since Friday, then Team Leader pops up and suddenly they're all here, even the really daft 'headless chicken' one .

Joined up recently and already stalking people?

You're unlikely to get any sympathy outside of your little team matey. By the way, your emoticons seem to be stuck.

I'm not looking for sympathy, just pointing out deviant behaviour.

By the way, I don't hava a team, you are just projecting.

[lucky11]

How can you possibly take something such as what he tweeted out of context? He said the DNA evidence was sound and the verdict also.

So you think he still believes they are innocent?

He said "IF the DNA evidence was sound, the verdict wa sound".

You missed out the "if" you also missed the sarcasm.

Then why was Andy Hall hysterical about Head's seeming positional change regards their guilt. He was literally pleading for him to come back into the defence camp!!

[AGareth2]

DNA does not show rape

it only shows physical presence

rape is about consent

Right, andthrough out all this they forgot to mention anything about having consentual sex with the victim, to anyone at any time.

pardon?

for murder there must be actus reus and mens rea DNA only corrobarates

[Khun Han]

How can something HE tweeted be deemed as being misrepresentation?

Andy Hall was trying his utmost to get him to revert back to his original position. This implies to me that the tweet is genuine and this cannot be argued against.

Maybe you struggle with understanding the nuances of the English language. But that's no excuse because your error was repeatedly explained to you. Your fellow member Disco Dave conceded his mistake. You continue to mis-represent Jonathan Head. This deliberate mis-representation has now been reported.

And again you mis-represent: the disagreement between Andy Hall and Jonathan Head is about how the defence team should have dealt with the discrepancies in DNA evidence.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Khun Han

[StealthEnergiser]

How can you possibly take something such as what he tweeted out of context? He said the DNA evidence was sound and the verdict also.

So you think he still believes they are innocent?

He said "IF the DNA evidence was sound, the verdict wa sound".

You missed out the "if" you also missed the sarcasm.

This is his tweet (unadulterated) - please point out where it say's the word IF!!!!

Jonathan Head ‏@pakhead 29 ธ.ค. 2558

the DNA match is sound, so is the verdict. It's that simple. That's why it was so bizarre that defence lawyers did not challenge DNA methods

10 รีทวีต2 ชื่นชอบ

you saw this before look at the times

Your taking it out of context and i suggest you contact him to verify before making misleading headlines.

Edited January 3, 2016 by StealthEnergiser

[lkv]

Nothing to do with how it was obtained - more to do that it was shown to belong to the B2. The BIB you are referring to would not have obtained this anyway, it would have been the available forensics team who would carried out the sampling.

So if say hypothetically speaking, and forgive my language, I would be law enforcement, take you in a room, suffocate you and then put a gun to your head and tell you to masturbate, and then your DNA would magically appear in a vagina, it would not matter how it was obtained would it?

Your obscene fantasies should be left out of the conversation, my friend. That is not called for.

I don't have obscene fantasies my friend, some of your bosses have.

But hey look, it's a big money making enterprise, I get it.

Now with all the rebuttals from you and your friends, I already feel safer so I can't wait to come back and spend my tourist dollar.

Gonna move back to the visa forum now so that I look for visa solutions.

Buh bye!

[Khun Han]

Isn't it strange: hardly so much as a peep at the thread from The Team since Friday, then Team Leader pops up and suddenly they're all here, even the really daft 'headless chicken' one .

Joined up recently and already stalking people?

You're unlikely to get any sympathy outside of your little team matey. By the way, your emoticons seem to be stuck.

I'm not looking for sympathy, just pointing out deviant behaviour.

By the way, I don't hava a team, you are just projecting.

Ah! Taking members of your pov to task over mis-information and disinginuity is stalking. Got it!

[Slip]

For crying out loud lucky11- it was part of a series of tweets that spanned a sentence. This has been explained to you multiple times. Of a all posters in this thread you are the one that should be banned for your lies, trolling and baiting. I can only presume your constant baiting is good for clicks.

How can you possibly take something such as what he tweeted out of context? He said the DNA evidence was sound and the verdict also.
So you think he still believes they are innocent?

He said "IF the DNA evidence was sound, the verdict wa sound".
You missed out the "if" you also missed the sarcasm.

This is his tweet (unadulterated) - please point out where it say's the word IF!!!!

Jonathan Head ‏@pakhead 29 ธ.ค. 2558

the DNA match is sound, so is the verdict. It's that simple. That's why it was so bizarre that defence lawyers did not challenge DNA methods

10 รีทวีต2 ชื่นชอบ

Edited January 3, 2016 by Slip

[stephenterry]

To be honest, I can't see the purpose of continuing this thread as the debate is going round in circles. Clearly, from the worldwide reaction to the verdict, the consensus is that it was incorrect, and based on unsound DNA evidence. I agree with that consensus. If a few on here disagree, your opinion is noted, so there is no need to keep flaming other posters.

[Khun Han]

How can you possibly take something such as what he tweeted out of context? He said the DNA evidence was sound and the verdict also.

So you think he still believes they are innocent?

He said "IF the DNA evidence was sound, the verdict wa sound".

You missed out the "if" you also missed the sarcasm.

This is his tweet (unadulterated) - please point out where it say's the word IF!!!!

Jonathan Head ‏@pakhead 29 ธ.ค. 2558

the DNA match is sound, so is the verdict. It's that simple. That's why it was so bizarre that defence lawyers did not challenge DNA methods

10 รีทวีต2 ชื่นชอบ

More mis-representation. Unbelievable!

Thanks for posting the full tweet Stealth Energiser. Though it's been posted before and Lucky 11 chose to ignore it.

[sartoric]

How can you possibly take something such as what he tweeted out of context? He said the DNA evidence was sound and the verdict also.

So you think he still believes they are innocent?

He said "IF the DNA evidence was sound, the verdict wa sound".

You missed out the "if" you also missed the sarcasm.

This is his tweet (unadulterated) - please point out where it say's the word IF!!!!

Jonathan Head ‏@pakhead 29 ธ.ค. 2558

the DNA match is sound, so is the verdict. It's that simple. That's why it was so bizarre that defence lawyers did not challenge DNA methods

10 รีทวีต2 ชื่นชอบ

You know that tweets are limited to a certain number of characters, yes ?

If you look at his previous tweet, you see the word "if" at the end...it was a dialogue that continued.

You're being disingenuous at best, and I ponder your motive. Very sad......

[DJVillain]

What's pathetic is the backpedaling, going from bands of thai thugs in Koh Tao preying on innocent young people with impunity to unespecified assaults, by unspecified people throughout an entire province without a mention of that going on with impunity.

Though's farangs who have connections in KT don't have to worry, do they AleG..?

Of course they don't...

As long as the money and the fresh, dough eyed Farang ladies keep turning up, who care if one or two are killed by local butchers... Theres plenty of Burmese and Khymer to pin it on...

And they are poor! So not only can they not defend themselves when they are stitched up.... but there are plenty more to take their place when they go...

Right AleG?

[oldsailor35]

It's fun to see that this forum is full of lawyers, judges and private detective

And quite intelligent people who can think for themselves, educated people who unlike the uneducated Thais, whom the RTP are normally dealing with, easily persuaded or not interested. These people know that it a waste of time to disagree with the BS presented by the RTP so just think mai phen lai.

[iReason]

"The officer who took DNA samples from one of the suspects when he was arrested, even though he had only been detained for not having the right documents to stay and work in Thailand,

admitted in court that he was not a forensics expert at all, but a bomb disposal officer, who had only ever taken DNA samples in training before."

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/trial_of_two_men_accused_of_murdering_hemsby_student_hannah_witheridge_in_thailand_resumes_1_4198226?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

Edited January 3, 2016 by iReason

[phuketandsee]

If people want to keep this thread going I suggest you join those of us who decided to ignore Lucky11 and the other shills some time ago. It is clear their intention is to close this down as previous shills (or them in previous identities) have managed before. Don't let them bait you. There clearly is no point in responding to them since you are never going to change their position.

Edited January 3, 2016 by phuketandsee

[Scott]

Some posts removed. If you continue to engage in nonsensical, baiting and inflammatory postings, you will be suspended. If you continue to report posts because you disagree with them, you will be suspended. The report button is for reporting posts which violate the rules, not for posters you don't like.

You have been warned.

[DJVillain]

“Jaktip Chaijinda, deputy head of national police, said a quick resolution of the case would result in a speedy recovery of tourist numbers.”

He went on: “Today the case should be finished. We want to clear it up as soon as possible so our tourist industry can bounce back.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/thailand-beach-murders-police-defend-4374673#ixzz3FAJYIY2b

All governments would act the same. It's called damage limitation after a situation that reflects your country in a negative way.

No they wouldn't.... Most governments with a hint of credibilty would talk first about their sympathy for the families, the tragic loss of life, how justice needed to be done and the proper criminals needed to be put to justice...

Not every government in the world brushes that under the carpet to make sure everyone knows that getting money is more important...

If anything, that makes it even more shady... They are willing to get tourists back into the country by any means necessary to make more money instead of find the people who actually did the crime.... because the people who actually did it paid them a shitload to find a pair of patsies!

[smedly]

How can you possibly take something such as what he tweeted out of context? He said the DNA evidence was sound and the verdict also.

So you think he still believes they are innocent?

do you honestly believe that any of these people making reference to DNA evidence as being sound are remotely qualified to do so, like you they actually have no clue and would be better saying nothing at all, even your earlier reference to lab technicians is somewhat naive - they go through a stepped process provided to them by the smart people that developed it, they may not even understand completely what they are doing and what the results actually mean, DNA testing is extremely complex and begins at the crime scene, the process must be followed meticulously and by the book otherwise it is useless, it is also of the utmost importance that the whole process can be repeated if there is a requirement, interpretation of the results is also complex and is a scientific field in its own right

You and a few others have been told this many times and yet you keep posting this deflective nonsense over and over

jucel, on 02 Jan 2016 - 18:56, said:

DNA Failings

1. It consists of a one page table replete with hand written amendments, date changes and data alterations. This document would NOT be admissible in any court in the UK, Australia, USA, EU, Hong Kong, Malaysia or Singapore.

2. It is NOT supported by any case notes, chain-of-custody records, nor statistics based on validated population data bases. The omission of that information is a COMPLETE abrogation of international ISO 17025 standards and would lead to a FULL audit of the police laboratory by an international accreditation agency!

3. The table has been used to match DNA components, which is an extreme oversimplification of the entire DNA process! It relies on single alleles rather than genotypes. (An allele is ONE of a pair of genes that appear in ONE part of a chromosome that help to determine heredity traits.)

4. Because there is NO statistical analysis to determine the probability of the stated frequencies in the table, it is absolutely NOT possible to determine the likelihood of the accused as being the contributors to the mixture! There, in fact, could be a VERY large number of other individuals who could NOT be ruled out as contributors!

5. It is, therefore, COMPLETELY erroneous (wrong) to claim a DNA match on the basis of the position of mere alleles on a DNA molecule without statistics to determine the probability!

For these reasons, it CANNOT be said (from any kind of scientific or legal standpoint) that there was a match between the DNA from the semen the police alleged to have and the DNA that was (forcibly, without consent or legal representation) retrieved from the two accused! Basing the conviction on COMPLETELY flawed DNA evidence has resulted in an EXTREME miscarriage of justice!

SiSePuede419, on 03 Jan 2016 - 07:00, said:

"therefore, COMPLETELY erroneous (wrong) to claim a DNA match on the basis of the position of mere alleles on a DNA molecule without statistics to determine the probability"

Exactly. Asian people are the most similar DNA phenotype (except for Native Americans).

Any two Americans (large ethnic mixture from all over the world) have about a 7% chance of matching any given loci on a chromosome.

I would guess any two Asians would be even higher.

Is it 100%? 90%? 80%? 70%?

This would change the interpretation of the DNA tests considerably.

[smedly]

How can something HE tweeted be deemed as being misrepresentation?

Andy Hall was trying his utmost to get him to revert back to his original position. This implies to me that the tweet is genuine and this cannot be argued against.

why don't you go and ask him instead of repeating this nonsense over and over on this forum, you said here once now move on, and the same goes for the DNA nonsense you keep repeating, we all read it now move on

[lkv]

If people want to keep this thread going I suggest you join those of us who decided to ignore Lucky11 and the other shills some time ago. It is clear their intention is to close this down as previous shills (or them in previous identities) have managed before. Don't let them bait you. There clearly is no point in responding to them since you are never going to change their position.

I disagree. Let them talk. It's not about them baiting us. I'm not going to explain the logic behind what I've just said but whoever is smart enough will understand it.

This thread has already generated over 200k views.

[iReason]

"The Thai police have testified in court that a police liaison officer at the British Embassy in Bangkok helped officers prove the phone belonged to murdered Jersey tourist, David Miller, aged 24, through its unique IMEI number."

"However such assistance would have breached UK legal regulations, which prevent any assistance to a foreign case that might end in the death penalty."

Source: http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/owner_of_mobile_phone_linking_burmese_migrant_workers_to_hannah_witheridge_murder_never_established_1_4213643

Edited January 3, 2016 by iReason

[KunMatt]

How can you possibly take something such as what he tweeted out of context? He said the DNA evidence was sound and the verdict also.

So you think he still believes they are innocent?

He said "IF the DNA evidence was sound, the verdict wa sound".

You missed out the "if" you also missed the sarcasm.

This is his tweet (unadulterated) - please point out where it say's the word IF!!!!

Jonathan Head ‏@pakhead 29 ธ.ค. 2558

the DNA match is sound, so is the verdict. It's that simple. That's why it was so bizarre that defence lawyers did not challenge DNA methods

10 รีทวีต2 ชื่นชอบ

How are you not suspended for continuing this baiting by lying about the quote? It's been nearly a week with your nonsense.

You know very well that the quote in full is: "For Koh Tao key is to read verdict. Judges admitted lots of flaws in investigation. But stated DNA match overrides all those concerns. If the DNA match is sound, so is the verdict. It's that simple. That's why it was so bizarre that defence lawyers did not challenge DNA methods"

So you have literally spent a week trying to derail this thread by knowingly misquoting a tweet that was spread over two posts.

The level of childishness that the handful of shills will go to just proves what a sham this trial was. If what you have brought up throughout this thread is really the best you have for a double murder case which got 2 guys a death sentence then it just goes to show how shoddy and non-existent the evidence against the B2 really was. So many flaws and unanswered questions and lies by the RTP but all you can do is spread misinformation and petty misquotes for months instead of coming up with some massive smoking gun which would prove that they actually did it.

You are all liars and frauds, and you all know it. I'm just posting this so anyone new to the conversation will also realise it instead of believing your lies and misinformation.

[Khun Han]

Enter Somyot:

"We haven't targeted anyone and have not concluded whether the murderers are still in the area,'' he said.”

“The mystery surrounding the identities of the killers had grown over reports, which he denied, that a suspect had fled the island and was hiding in Bangkok."

"I was surprised at the news.”

http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-police-blame-koh-tao-probe-delays-on-social-media-48872.php

See post #2715

See post #2265 And view the blatant manipulation of the "suspects" at the crime scene.

Well.....Somyot would be surprised, would't he? After all, it was only his chief investigating officer making the statement that was the basis if the reports.

Wonder how much money he had at stake in that resort project?

[lkv]

Does anybody reckon it would be a problem to copy paste from Mike's travel blog?

If it's a problem, without going too much into detail I would recommend a very interesting read. It has been mentioned before. Whoever has not read this one should.

Google: Mike The Dark Side of Thailand's Paradise

Edited January 3, 2016 by lkv

[Artisi]

DNA does not show rape

it only shows physical presence

rape is about consent

Oh yes it does show rape, to the BIB, the judge and of course the Village Glee Club...... Oh! and a few others who can't think for themselves ...............

[Scott]

Posts removed.

[AleG]

This is his tweet (unadulterated) - please point out where it say's the word IF!!!!

Jonathan Head ‏@pakhead 29 ธ.ค. 2558

the DNA match is sound, so is the verdict. It's that simple. That's why it was so bizarre that defence lawyers did not challenge DNA methods

10 รีทวีต2 ชื่นชอบ

How are you not suspended for continuing this baiting by lying about the quote? It's been nearly a week with your nonsense.

You know very well that the quote in full is: "For Koh Tao key is to read verdict. Judges admitted lots of flaws in investigation. But stated DNA match overrides all those concerns. If the DNA match is sound, so is the verdict. It's that simple. That's why it was so bizarre that defence lawyers did not challenge DNA methods"

So you have literally spent a week trying to derail this thread by knowingly misquoting a tweet that was spread over two posts.

The level of childishness that the handful of shills will go to just proves what a sham this trial was. If what you have brought up throughout this thread is really the best you have for a double murder case which got 2 guys a death sentence then it just goes to show how shoddy and non-existent the evidence against the B2 really was. So many flaws and unanswered questions and lies by the RTP but all you can do is spread misinformation and petty misquotes for months instead of coming up with some massive smoking gun which would prove that they actually did it.

You are all liars and frauds, and you all know it. I'm just posting this so anyone new to the conversation will also realise it instead of believing your lies and misinformation.

The massive smoking gun you are talking about is the same evidence you want to believe doesn't exists.

Based on that evidence they were found guilty of murdering Hannah Witheridge and David Miller, which goes to prove, once again, that you can ignore reality but can't escape the consequences of ignoring reality.

But hey, give it a shot, why did the defense do nothing to contest your supposed non-existent evidence? You make it sound like it would had been a cakewalk to disprove it... they didn't touch it with a ten foot pole instead.

[asiamaster]

DNA from the crime or detention.....?

UK Autopsy report soon.........we can go from there...

But, sexual stuff does not prove murder....The killing weapon does.....

UK autopsy soon? I doubt it and believe UK is withholding evidence just like they did with the IMEI number. Wait and see.

Personally I am not in favour of death sentence..... the sexual stuff could still lead to 20 years imprisonment.