retirement visa to repeat tourist visa

[triffid]

I've been here for six years on a retirement visa extended annually - current one expiring early march. I expect to travel out of Thailand for a week or so in February and throughout 2016 I will not be here for a continuous period of over 3 months.

I therefore decided not to put the requisite 800k on 3 mths deposit and intend to get a tourist visa for my trips (of 3 months or less) to Thailand. If a few years down the line I foresee wanting to stay for longer than 3 months at a time I would want to revert to a retirement visa.

Is there a problem, difficulty or hugely higher cost with this plan vs. my previous arrangement of an annually extended retirement & multiple re-entry? For instance will immigration frown or worse at my repeated entry as tourist?

I have a UK passport.

[elviajero]

• If you don't want to keep the 800k in a Thai account then you should get a 1 year non 'O-A' visa from the UK.
• You are granted a 1 year stay every time you enter.
• It will allow you to come and go as often as you want during the 1 year life of the visa.
• You only need to show the 800k equivalent in your UK bank on the day of application.
• If you time the last entry using the visa to be near the end of the year you will be given another 1 year stay that can be left alive with a re-entry permit for 3,800 baht.
• This visa will give you nearly two years before needing a new visa or applying for annual extension of stay.

If you get tourist visas from the UK you shouldn't have any problem entering repeatedly as a tourist.

[triffid]

Thanks for the your rapid reply. To be sure I have your very interesting suggestion about getting the 1-year non O-A (retirement?) visa from the UK I will need to unpack it a bit and probably need to ask you a few questions of clarification.

But before I do that I had the following question about the tourist visa. You say "get tourist visas from the UK",

- does that imply that a UK national can't get a tourist visa upon arrival at Bkk airport?

- if so can't a UK national get the tourist visa from a thai consulate in a neighbouring country or Singapore?

- if the answer to my questions is 'yes' and 'no' respectively then what are the so-called 'visa runs'?

I ask because 1) my current retirement visa expires in March; 2) I'm planning a trip to the UK until early summer; whereas in Feb I want to make a trip in Asia and was thinking of getting a tourist visa of some sort for 3 months until my trip to the UK a couple of months later.

[elviajero]

Thanks for the your rapid reply. To be sure I have your very interesting suggestion about getting the 1-year non O-A (retirement?) visa from the UK I will need to unpack it a bit and probably need to ask you a few questions of clarification.

But before I do that I had the following question about the tourist visa. You say "get tourist visas from the UK",

- does that imply that a UK national can't get a tourist visa upon arrival at Bkk airport?

- if so can't a UK national get the tourist visa from a thai consulate in a neighbouring country or Singapore?

- if the answer to my questions is 'yes' and 'no' respectively then what are the so-called 'visa runs'?

I ask because 1) my current retirement visa expires in March; 2) I'm planning a trip to the UK until early summer; whereas in Feb I want to make a trip in Asia and was thinking of getting a tourist visa of some sort for 3 months until my trip to the UK a couple of months later.

• Visa are not issued to UK nationals on arrival at Bkk. You will be granted a visa exempt entry and issued with a 30 day permit to stay.
• You will be able to get a single entry tourist visa (SETV) from many embassies/consulates from neighbouring countries.
• Visa runs are either short trips to neighbouring countries to get a new visa, or crossing a border and immediately returning to activate a new visa entry, or going out/in to receive a new 15/30 day visa exempt entry.
• You will have no problem getting a SETV locally to cover your 3 months stay, It gives you a 60 day stay on entry that can be extended at an immigration office by 30 days.

Note that some embassies/consulates local to Thailand will limit the number of tourist visas they will issue, so staying here long term with tourist visas can involve applying in different countries. Back to back visa exempt entries are frowned upon and after a while will likely involve interviews on entry to satisfy the IO that you are a genuine tourist.

[JLCrab]

One possible downside to the OP's plan is that, having been here on extension of stay via retirement for 6 years continuously, one might lose the 'grandfather' status should any changes be made in a new Police Order as to increased requirements for extension of stay via retirement.

[ubonjoe]

I think if you decide not to get your extension in March you will soon regret not doing it after having to deal with getting tourist visas and then 30 day extensions when you want to stay longer than 60 days.

[triffid]

Appreciate the responses & clarifications so far. Based on that I plan the following regarding travel/visas in the coming years. I would greatly appreciate your comments or suggestions on this.

In the coming 12-18 months I do not expect to be in Thailand for more than 3 months at a time. Hence I did not want to tie up the 800k baht.

My retirement visa expires 6 March. Before that, in February, I plan to one of the neighbouring countries - most probably Hanoi - where I thought I'll try to get the SETV mentioned above. Will there be a problem with this if I apply before the retirement visa has expired on 6 March?

I will go out again before the next 3 months. If that is again to a neighbouring country I will again apply for the SETV.

The following trip - in the summer - will be to England and there I may well apply for the one year retirement visa. At its expiry, 18 months from today, I'll decide on my future applications - and may well revert to annual extensions (with the 800k deposit).

The fact is that I foresee spending no more than 60-70% of the year in Thailand, and that 60-70% could be broken into 3 month chunks without a problem. My base for the remaining 30-40% would be England. It seemed the visas plan I mention above would suit my circumstances best. Have I missed something in thinking so?

Many thanks for reading through this.

[ubonjoe]

Appreciate the responses & clarifications so far. Based on that I plan the following regarding travel/visas in the coming years. I would greatly appreciate your comments or suggestions on this.

In the coming 12-18 months I do not expect to be in Thailand for more than 3 months at a time. Hence I did not want to tie up the 800k baht.

My retirement visa expires 6 March. Before that, in February, I plan to one of the neighbouring countries - most probably Hanoi - where I thought I'll try to get the SETV mentioned above. Will there be a problem with this if I apply before the retirement visa has expired on 6 March?

I will go out again before the next 3 months. If that is again to a neighbouring country I will again apply for the SETV.

The following trip - in the summer - will be to England and there I may well apply for the one year retirement visa. At its expiry, 18 months from today, I'll decide on my future applications - and may well revert to annual extensions (with the 800k deposit).

The fact is that I foresee spending no more than 60-70% of the year in Thailand, and that 60-70% could be broken into 3 month chunks without a problem. My base for the remaining 30-40% would be England. It seemed the visas plan I mention above would suit my circumstances best. Have I missed something in thinking so?

Many thanks for reading through this.

No problem to apply for a tourist visa prior to your extension ends since it will be invalid a soon as you leave the country. The only problem you could have is if you have a valid re-entry permit when you enter the country.

Just remember that a tourist visa only allows a 60 day entry. To get the 90 days you have to apply for a 30 day extension.

No problem to get another tourist visa.

If you get the OA long stay visa you can get almost 2 years of total stay from.it. It will be a multiple entry visa and if you do an entry just before it expires you will get a new one year entry. Then you would only need to get a re-entry permit to keep that last entry valid if you want to travel.

[elviajero]

Appreciate the responses & clarifications so far. Based on that I plan the following regarding travel/visas in the coming years. I would greatly appreciate your comments or suggestions on this.

In the coming 12-18 months I do not expect to be in Thailand for more than 3 months at a time. Hence I did not want to tie up the 800k baht.

My retirement visa expires 6 March. Before that, in February, I plan to one of the neighbouring countries - most probably Hanoi - where I thought I'll try to get the SETV mentioned above. Will there be a problem with this if I apply before the retirement visa has expired on 6 March?

I will go out again before the next 3 months. If that is again to a neighbouring country I will again apply for the SETV.

The following trip - in the summer - will be to England and there I may well apply for the one year retirement visa. At its expiry, 18 months from today, I'll decide on my future applications - and may well revert to annual extensions (with the 800k deposit).

The fact is that I foresee spending no more than 60-70% of the year in Thailand, and that 60-70% could be broken into 3 month chunks without a problem. My base for the remaining 30-40% would be England. It seemed the visas plan I mention above would suit my circumstances best. Have I missed something in thinking so?

Many thanks for reading through this.

Getting a SETV in Hanoi is no problem but you will need to show flight bookings in and out of Thailand. Vientiane or Savannakhet in Laos do not require flight bookings. It maybe an idea to get the first SETV in Laos and the second in Hanoi so you can show the fight to the UK. Getting two SETV's in Laos wouldn't be a problem. Hanoi is only necessary if you plan to go anyway for a visit.

Based on what you've said the multi entry non 'O-A' will be your best option. Just make sure you understand your options with this visa and it'll be good for two years.

[david555]

One possible downside to the OP's plan is that, having been here on extension of stay via retirement for 6 years continuously, one might lose the 'grandfather' status should any changes be made in a new Police Order as to increased requirements for extension of stay via retirement.

+1 , O.P. should/could avoid that simple by one time a year upload for the 800 000 for 3 months and after withdraw new to where he like it to be ...

Long time Th. the fin requirements . are updated ....... could be another future immigration. surprise !

[jpinx]

The OP could possibly use the income method for renewing his extension, and thus avoid tying money up.

Allowing an on-going retirement extension situation would be a big mistake. Just renew it, get a multiple re-entry pemit and relax for a year.

[Colabamumbai]

You can extend your visa using the monthly income method, by showing a deposit of a minimum of 65,000 Baht going into one of your bank accounts in your own country for one month of the year.

A printout of that money going into an account and with an income affidavit form, your embassy in Bangkok will issue a letter to immigration asking them to assist you with your stay.

Immigration will also ask for a copy showing the funds going into your account.

Do this before March, apply for an extension and your all set for another year. Get a re-entry permit at the same time to keep your extension valid if you are leaving Thailand.

[jpinx]

You can extend your visa using the monthly income method, by showing a deposit of a minimum of 65,000 Baht going into one of your bank accounts in your own country for one month of the year.

A printout of that money going into an account and with an income affidavit form, your embassy in Bangkok will issue a letter to immigration asking them to assist you with your stay.

Immigration will also ask for a copy showing the funds going into your account.

Do this before March, apply for an extension and your all set for another year. Get a re-entry permit at the same time to keep your extension valid if you are leaving Thailand.

Not true -- every immigration office is a little bit different. Most ask for the embassy letter and nothing more. I'd suggest that since this is a renewal after multiple years extensions, they will not raise eyebrows. Using the income method has the big advantage of not needing any thai bank account.

[OJAS]

Definitely agree with the posters here who are advising against letting your retirement extension lapse.

Should the 65,000 THB monthly income option be available to you, information as to how to go about obtaining the necessary Embassy letter can be found here:-

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/how-to-obtain-a-pensionincome-letter-for-thai-immigration

My experience, too, has been that my local immigration office (Maptaput) have never asked for any financial info in support of the Embassy letter - although it might be prudent for you to take along to Immigration the income evidence you provide to the Embassy for their letter on a "just-in-case" basis, as I do.

However, should you be still minded to obtain a fresh non-OA visa in due course, please note that this will only be obtainable in your case from the Royal Thai Embassy in London. Information on the Embassy's requirements can be found here:-

http://www.thaiembassyuk.org.uk/?q=node/51

[triffid]

Thanks again for the full and very helpful information and advice. Let me be more explicit about my constraints and what they stem from.

1) I needed the 800k in the thai bank a/c and have already taken it out. So in effect I've already forfeited the possibility of getting an extension on my retirement visa at its expiry on 6 March (less than 3 months away.)

2) For various reasons primarily related to my having spent my working life overseas I have capital/cash/investment but virtually no UK steady income - so the regular monthly income route is not open to me.

3) I live on the investment income from my stocks/shares which feed into my thai and other asian bank accounts, but just now I needed the 800k that I'd had on deposit here so took it out, so willy-nilly I can't now apply for an extension even if I had the 800k as there isn't time for a 3-mth depo before 6 March.

4) Come the summer I expect to have more than enough to make the 3-month deposit of 800k if I do decide to revert to my current modus operandi of having a retirement visa and multiple re-entry annually extended/renewed.

5) The question is, given my constraints, how best to manage my comings and goings in Thailand for the next 6/7 months (post 6 March until when I already have the visa and re-entry).

I'm sort of committed to a fortnight's trip to Hanoi in February - which falls within the validity of my current retirement/re-entry visa.

One option I might pursue could be to be to leave Thailand again just before 6 March to a neighbouring country and return with an SETV, get it extended by a month, and then go to England around June. In England I could apply for a non OA 1-year visa at the Thai Embassy in London - I'm presuming I'll meet the financial requirement by showing requisite cash in my accounts in England and/or Thailand. Once in Thailand I could then revert to keeping that 1-year visa going with annual extensions, as I'm doing now.

A second option would be to leave Thailand just prior to 6 March and for a while come to Thailand only on SETV s - given that it doesn't bother me to keep my stays to less than 2-3 months.

Most probably I'll revert sometime in 2016 to the more settled arrangement of annual extensions, i.e. the first option. But in the meantime I'd very much appreciate comments, caveats or useful info on those alternative plans. (I'm sorry to tax the time/patience of members by going on about this, or where I have been repetitive or obtuse).

[triffid]

Grateful if Ubonjoe would clarify for me this comment he made

"No problem to apply for a tourist visa prior to your extension ends since it will be invalid a soon as you leave the country. The only problem you could have is if you have a valid re-entry permit when you enter the country."

I didn't understand what "will be invalid as soon as I leave" and how exactly the "problem" arises.

[jpinx]

Your investment income, etc, are perfectly valid income streams. You can use the various banks statements to get the information, make a summary for your embassy and they will confirm the last 6 months of income (or a year if you have that far back).

Edit to add -- it is not important where the banks are -- UK, Thailand, EU, where-ever, -- it's only money coming in to accounts in your name that are interesting to them.

[ubonjoe]

Grateful if Ubonjoe would clarify for me this comment he made

"No problem to apply for a tourist visa prior to your extension ends since it will be invalid a soon as you leave the country. The only problem you could have is if you have a valid re-entry permit when you enter the country."

I didn't understand what "will be invalid as soon as I leave" and how exactly the "problem" arises.

Your extension of stay ends any time you leave the country. It is reinstated if you enter using a re-entry permit.

The problem you could have with a valid re-entry permit would be the officer used it on entry instead of the tourist visa.

[triffid]

Grateful if Ubonjoe would clarify for me this comment he made

"No problem to apply for a tourist visa prior to your extension ends since it will be invalid a soon as you leave the country. The only problem you could have is if you have a valid re-entry permit when you enter the country."

I didn't understand what "will be invalid as soon as I leave" and how exactly the "problem" arises.

Your extension of stay ends any time you leave the country. It is reinstated if you enter using a re-entry permit.

The problem you could have with a valid re-entry permit would be the officer used it on entry instead of the tourist visa.

Understood, and thanks for clarifying. If I find myself entering in that situation I suppose I should ask the official not to do that.

[triffid]

Your investment income, etc, are perfectly valid income streams. You can use the various banks statements to get the information, make a summary for your embassy and they will confirm the last 6 months of income (or a year if you have that far back).

Edit to add -- it is not important where the banks are -- UK, Thailand, EU, where-ever, -- it's only money coming in to accounts in your name that are interesting to them.

This is most interesting.

So if I produce bank statements (my thai banks, say) going back six months or a year showing money coming in and a healthy average balance the Consulate might give me the necessary letter? In effect the consulate is willing to take a sensible look at the statements whereas thai immigration have a rigid rule saying 'we only look for a steady 800k balance for the last 3 months - and don't care what the statement as a whole shows'.

Thanks for that info.

[jpinx]

Your investment income, etc, are perfectly valid income streams. You can use the various banks statements to get the information, make a summary for your embassy and they will confirm the last 6 months of income (or a year if you have that far back).

Edit to add -- it is not important where the banks are -- UK, Thailand, EU, where-ever, -- it's only money coming in to accounts in your name that are interesting to them.

This is most interesting.

So if I produce bank statements (my thai banks, say) going back six months or a year showing money coming in and a healthy average balance the Consulate might give me the necessary letter? In effect the consulate is willing to take a sensible look at the statements whereas thai immigration have a rigid rule saying 'we only look for a steady 800k balance for the last 3 months - and don't care what the statement as a whole shows'.

Thanks for that info.

Different consulates/embassies work slightly differently and you would be well advised to talk to yours and find out what they want. They might deal with you by email - - saving a lot of leg-work In the end the immigration office wants the consulate to say how much you earn per month averaged out over the previous 6 or 12 months. The IO don't care much where it comes from as long as it's legal and proveable and your consulate has checked it, vouch for it, and summarised it in Thai Baht so that the IO doesn't even have to get a calculator out. Be very clear - - they don't care about your bank balance -- they want to see the income.

Because you are renewing an extension for the umpteenth time, the immigration officer is much more likely to be amenable - assuming there's been no problems in the past. I have heard of people in here complaining about being asked to show the same statements as were shown to the embassy, but that has been the exception, as far as I can tell.

The only caveat is that different embassies have different requirements -- as do different immigration offices and officers. You have time to find out the details of what you need and get it done before you launch on your travels.

Keeping the extension alive would be my priority. As several people have pointed out, given the changes to the regimes that happen from time to time, you have a much better chance of continuing with minimum hassle if you are seen to be legitimate long-term stayer.

[elviajero]

Your investment income, etc, are perfectly valid income streams. You can use the various banks statements to get the information, make a summary for your embassy and they will confirm the last 6 months of income (or a year if you have that far back).

Edit to add -- it is not important where the banks are -- UK, Thailand, EU, where-ever, -- it's only money coming in to accounts in your name that are interesting to them.

This is most interesting.

So if I produce bank statements (my thai banks, say) going back six months or a year showing money coming in and a healthy average balance the Consulate might give me the necessary letter? In effect the consulate is willing to take a sensible look at the statements whereas thai immigration have a rigid rule saying 'we only look for a steady 800k balance for the last 3 months - and don't care what the statement as a whole shows'.

Thanks for that info.

You take what you have to the British embassy and claim you receive the equivalent income of x which you back up with proof. The embassy then issue a letter confirming that you claim to have an income of x. As long as the income, when converted in to baht by immigration, is the equivalent of at least 65k baht per month you'll qualify for the extension.

Personally I would try and stick with the extension if possible. But if not you shouldn't be concerned. The non 'O-A' visa route is a very good option for you.

[OJAS]

Your investment income, etc, are perfectly valid income streams. You can use the various banks statements to get the information, make a summary for your embassy and they will confirm the last 6 months of income (or a year if you have that far back).

Edit to add -- it is not important where the banks are -- UK, Thailand, EU, where-ever, -- it's only money coming in to accounts in your name that are interesting to them.

This is most interesting.

So if I produce bank statements (my thai banks, say) going back six months or a year showing money coming in and a healthy average balance the Consulate might give me the necessary letter? In effect the consulate is willing to take a sensible look at the statements whereas thai immigration have a rigid rule saying 'we only look for a steady 800k balance for the last 3 months - and don't care what the statement as a whole shows'.

Thanks for that info.

You take what you have to the British embassy and claim you receive the equivalent income of x which you back up with proof. The embassy then issue a letter confirming that you claim to have an income of x. As long as the income, when converted in to baht by immigration, is the equivalent of at least 65k baht per month you'll qualify for the extension.

Personally I would try and stick with the extension if possible. But if not you shouldn't be concerned. The non 'O-A' visa route is a very good option for you.

And please note that the Embassy will insist on stating your monthly income (elviajero's 'x') in GBP in their letter, even if this is based on amounts recorded in Thai bank statements in THB. You would therefore be strongly advised to contact the Embassy to ascertain the exchange rate upon which your THB-to-GBP calculation should be based.

I suspect that the Embassy will insist on seeing statements going back a whole year (rather than just 6 months) - but this is a point which you could, of course, also clarify when contacting them on the exchange rate point.

That said, if your investment income originated in the UK, do you not have any statements expressed in GBP from the provider(s), which you could let the Embassy have instead?

Finally, while jpinx's point regarding the non-relevance of bank location may be true in the case of a renewal of your retirement extension here in LOS, please note that the Royal Thai Embassy in London will almost certainly insist on the requisite amount being held in a UK account for a non-OA visa application.

[triffid]

Thanks to the latest three responses - ojas, elviajero & jpinx. Based on them I am much encouraged. I'll have a shot at another extension of my retirement and the multiple re-entry as usual but now with the income, not the 3-mth deposit.

I shall get together my two thai banks' statements going back a year. They will show amounts of well in excess of the 65k baht mentioned coming in every month (so much in excess that even if the embassy expresses the amount on pounds immigration will probably realize it's more than 65k baht - but I'll keep the baht statements too.) I shall then approach the British embassy for the letter.

I live in Chiangmai. So it will be best if I can do as much as possible from here. (There is an honorary consul here but I doubt that the Bkk embassy will allow him any authority but maybe he will be allowed to authenticate the statements and so smooth the path a bit.) Can anyone please tell me something about the practicalities, e.g.: whom/how precisely to get the process going once I have the statements in hand? how much in advance of my visa expiry (6 March) I could start the embassy-application process? I'd like to get going asap.

Again, many thanks.

[ubonjoe]

You can only apply for the income letter by mail to the UK embassy in Bangkok, See: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/how-to-obtain-a-pensionincome-letter-for-thai-immigration

[triffid]

You can only apply for the income letter by mail to the UK embassy in Bangkok, See: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/how-to-obtain-a-pensionincome-letter-for-thai-immigration

Thank you. I shall be looking into it pronto.